The common denominator

[GerhardEbersoehn]

How do we appropriate the obedience of Jesus Christ (the ONE that is there spoken of) except through faith in Him?

<We> do not <<appropriate the obedience of Jesus Christ>. The obedience of Jesus Christ IS "RECKONED us unto righteousness, the Righteousness : namely : OF CHRIST. Romans 3:22"
"Let God be true but every man aliar!" Romans 3:4. Liars are disallowed to appropriate the obedience of Jesus Christ. ... We have before proved both Jews and Gentiles that THEY ARE UNDER SIN," The acme of their wickedness is, they assume that they, by rights of their approbation of God's Righteousness, are the custodians of the obedience of Jesus Christ.

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

from my perspective, Christ's righteousness imputed to us does not result in condemnation but in salvation.

That's right! "imputed" means "reckoned", "put on one's account" -- not imparted -- not Roman Catholicism. Where imputed, Christ's righteousness does not result in condemnation but in salvation; but where presumably, presumptuously, proudly, Christ's Righteousness is imparted, Christ's righteousness results in condemnation of the proud and assuming.

 

[Renniks]

The Big Mistake.
Long before being wicked could manifest through choice, everyone has been wicked, just by being. It's called man's 'nature'. And nature rules choice; not choice, nature.

So...I have no choice but to be wicked?

Hmmm...I guess scripture disagrees.

Blessed is the one
who does not walk in step with the wicked
or stand in the way that sinners take
or sit in the company of mockers,
2 but whose delight is in the law of the Lord,
and who meditates on his law day and night.
3 That person is like a tree planted by streams of water,
which yields its fruit in season
and whose leaf does not wither—
whatever they do prospers.

4 Not so the wicked!
They are like chaff
that the wind blows away.
5 Therefore the wicked will not stand in the judgment,
nor sinners in the assembly of the righteous.

6 For the Lord watches over the way of the righteous,
but the way of the wicked leads to destruction.

 

[Renniks]

It will not help you. You get it right yourself or not. It's the only way. Calvinists must go slow with Armenians because God is patient but man is impetuous.

Armenians live in Armenia and believe a variety of things.

 

[Renniks]

A sinner does not <<make the decision to believe>>. He is MADE to believe and then decides.

The big calvinist lie, found nowhere in the Bible.
Faith precedes salvation.

 

[Renniks]

Anti-Scripture.

Please do illustrate. Let me help.

Then he believed in the Lord; and He reckoned it to him as righteousness.


Therefore, you Israelites, I will judge each of you according to your own ways, declares the Sovereign LORD. Repent! Turn away from all your offenses; then sin will not be your downfall. Rid yourselves of all the offenses you have committed, and get a new heart and a new spirit. Why will you die, people of Israel? For I take no pleasure in the death of anyone, declares the Sovereign LORD. Repent and live!”

Oh wait, Faith comes first in these verses.

 

[justbyfaith]

Anti-Scripture.

You really think so?

What scripture denies the fact that we are made righteous through faith in Jesus Christ?

That's right! "imputed" means "reckoned", "put on one's account" -- not imparted --

Righteousness is indeed imputed...it is also imparted to the born again believer (1 John 3:7, Romans 5:19, Matthew 5:6).

but where presumably, presumptuously, proudly, Christ Righteousness is imparted, Christ's righteousness results in condemnation of the proud and assuming.

I would be interested in seeing chapter and verse on the Bible that teaches what you are saying...that imparted righteousness results not in salvation but in condemnation.

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

I suppose that we can be technical and stick to what each verse is saying and not bring other biblical understanding into our understanding of the verse; I suppose that in saying that in Romans 5:19 it is saying that we are made righteous through faith in Jesus I was taking a shortcut; assuming that you had a biblical understanding that righteousness is by faith (for example, Romans 1:17).

Sarcasm is not your best weapon, it's your only.

The <biblical understanding that righteousness is by faith .. for example in Romans 1:17>?
In free will choice self-deception maybe!
Romans 1:17 says of "the Power of the Gospel of Jesus Christ" in verse 16 SPECIFICALLY, "because THEREIN the Righteousness OF GOD is revealed from faith to faith as it is written, the just shall live by faith."
The Biblical understanding of righteousness by faith is not <<that we are made righteous through faith>> In Romans 1:17 for example, <<it .. the Biblical understanding of righteousness by faith .. is saying>>: Quote: "the just shall live by faith."End quote Period! It is by "the Power of the Gospel of Jesus Christ" that we are ACCOUNTED JUDGED DECLARED RECKONED righteous, FREELY, that is, "without works" of any kind of law whether works of the Law of Faith or the works of the Law of Blood offerings or the works of the Law of Love. WITHOUT WORKS!

In other words of ourselves we are just our old selves as always for always. We are NEVER <<made righteous>>, most certainly not, by the human act of volition of faith or believing. That is not what saves; that is not what has the power to save. Because that -- our works -- is are not "Jesus Christ The Power Of God To Save" THAT SAVES.

That <<we are made righteous>> is the abomination of desolation of Roman Catholicism, its satanic false spirit teaching with anathema for not accepting.

 

[justbyfaith]

We are NEVER <<made righteous>>,

I beg to differ (see 1 John 3:7, Romans 5:19, Matthew 5:6).

most certainly not, by the human act of volition of faith or believing. That is not what saves; that is not what has the power to save

We are indeed saved by grace through faith, Romans 5:1-2, Ephesians 2:8-9, Habakkuk 2:4, Romans 1:17, Galatians 3:11, Hebrews 10:38.

That <<we are made righteous>> is the abomination of desolation of Roman Catholicism, its satanic false spirit teaching with anathema for not accepting.

Friend, you are way out in left field. That we can be made righteous is evident in Romans 5:19.

That this happens by faith is evident in a great number of verses in the holy scriptures.

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

So...I have no choice but to be wicked?

Hmmm...I guess scripture disagrees.

Blessed is the one
who does not walk in step with the wicked
or stand in the way that sinners take
or sit in the company of mockers,
2 but whose delight is in the law of the Lord,
and who meditates on his law day and night.
3 That person is like a tree planted by streams of water,
which yields its fruit in season
and whose leaf does not wither—
whatever they do prospers.

4 Not so the wicked!
They are like chaff
that the wind blows away.
5 Therefore the wicked will not stand in the judgment,
nor sinners in the assembly of the righteous.

6 For the Lord watches over the way of the righteous,
but the way of the wicked leads to destruction.

<<So...I have no choice but to be wicked?>>

Yes, Scripture disagrees with your False premise! One has no choice; you ARE wicked. What makes you think you have the option of <choice to be wicked>? Arrogance of the weakling!

<<scripture disagrees>> with [Long before being wicked could manifest through choice, everyone has been wicked, just by being. It's called man's 'nature'. And nature rules choice; not choice, nature.].
To prove <<scripture disagrees>>, you quote Psalm 1, beginning with the word "Blessed" : "Blessed is the one ..." But you DENY ITS EXISTENCE. Again you prove the total falseness of free-will choice salvation. That's all you do, but you are blind(ed) to see you don't see it. Typical. Not even funny. Not clever for sure. Smart, yes, too smart for honesty. Like chaff that the wind blows away.

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

I beg to differ (see 1 John 3:7, Romans 5:19, Matthew 5:6).

In other words, <I beg I am different, I am righteous, I do righteousness.>. If you so beg. I do not. And don't say <We are saved indeed> the same. We are not. You may have your righteousness because you do righteousness; I pray I am saved BY GRACE alone, with faith afterwards or without faith afterwards who would know? If I may 'choose' I pray, Let me rather die like the thief on the cross without working faith than boast salvation through my faith alone.

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

We are indeed saved by grace through faith, Romans 5:1-2, Ephesians 2:8-9, Habakkuk 2:4, Romans 1:17, Galatians 2:12, Hebrews 10:38.

Friend, you are way out in left field. That we can be made righteous is evident in Romans 5:19.

That this happens by faith is evident in a great number of verses in the holy scriptures.

Repeat until you're blue in the face, it's still only the pope's old ace.

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

The big calvinist lie, found nowhere in the Bible.
Faith precedes salvation.

Neat and clear, the Big Roman Catholic, PAPAL LIE : <<Faith precedes salvation.>> Found in every text abused in the Bible.

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

And thus we found it true, the TRUCE between Roman Catholicism and Seventh day Adventism. Blood brothers until death do us part!

 

[Renniks]

But you DENY ITS EXISTENCE

I deny what's existence? Your rants are hard to decipher and I lost my Calvinist logic decoder ring.

 

[Renniks]

Neat and clear, the Big Roman Catholic, PAPAL LIE : <<Faith precedes salvation.>> Found in every text abused in the Bible.

I'm not Catholic.
From Wesley:
II. What is salvation by faith?

1. It is a present salvation. “Ye are saved through faith.”
2. You are saved from sin, both from the guilt and power of it.
3. First, from the guilt of all past sin.
4. They are saved from fear a. of the wrath of God and b. of falling away from the grace of God.
5. Through this faith they are saved from the power of sin as well as from the guilt of it.
6. People born of God no longer sin.
7. This then is the salvation which is through faith, even in the present world: a salvation from sin and the consequences of sin.


Now I do disagree with #6, but otherwise that about covers it.


Not only does regeneration before faith go against what the Bible actually teaches, but it is also a very recent idea that was not accepted or taught throughout most of church history — not even by most Calvinists, including John Calvin himself!

The NT makes the order clear: 1) Faith — 2) Rebirth — 3) Seeing the kingdom (final glorification).
John 12:36, Jesus tells his listeners to “believe in the light, that you may become sons of light.” This is as unmistakable as it gets. Jesus himself says the order is 1) Believe, then 2) Become sons of light (regeneration).

Luke 8:12 Jesus teaches that the devil tries to prevent the word/gospel from taking root in people’s hearts, so that they will not “believe and be saved.” Salvation is the result of belief.

Even after the Reformation, regeneration first was the view of only a small minority. None of the major classical theologians taught it — neither Augustine, nor the early church councils, nor Aquinas. Not even such figureheads of Calvinism as Calvin himself, Beza, Edwards, or Spurgeon taught it!

More recent Reformed theologians in order to advocate infant baptism. So that they could consider that babies of Christian parents could be regenerate apart from the preaching of the Word, modern teachers like W. G. T. Shedd, Louis Berkhof, and R. C. Sproul developed the doctrine.

The idea that regeneration precedes faith does not come from the clear exegesis of Scripture. Rather, it is read into Scripture by a small minority of extreme Calvinists who want the Bible to support their system.

 

[justbyfaith]

6. People born of God no longer sin.

Now I do disagree with #6, but otherwise that about covers it.

What if I put it to you this way?

Those who do the will of God abide in Christ (sin not, 1 John 3:6) for ever (1 John 2:17).

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

Armenians live in Armenia and believe a variety of things.

See post #99. I KNEW you would not miss this golden opportunity. You deserve a medal for attentiveness.

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

What if I put it to you this way?

Those who do the will of God abide in Christ (sin not, 1 John 3:6) for ever (1 John 2:17).

Amen.
For several reasons why YES!

One. It's sober, humble common sense at hearing the Word of God in Scripture through the irresistible grace by the Holy Spirit of God.

Two. It is Scripture virtually per se : "Little children, YOUR SINS ARE FORGIVEN YOU FOR HIS NAME'S SAKE."

AMEN. Praise the Lord for He is good.

May God bless you and save you

Three. Those who do the will of God abide in Christ sin not abiding in Christ. In Old Testament times the murderer, while holding fast to the horns of the blood-offer altar IN THE SANCTUARY committed no murder.

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]