The common denominator
- Thread starter GerhardEbersoehn
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But then, what do you do with David comparing the wicked to the righteous? Do you assume the righteous are not born in sin?
This is where limited atonement leads a person, actually, to believing some of just born to be wicked and some born to be saved.
Amen! That's exactly what limited atonement is. Of course, it doesn't really exist.
Of course the righteous were born in sin.
They are made righteous (Romans 5:19) through faith in Jesus Christ.
Who are <they> you're speaking of?
Whoever they are, they are not <<made righteous through faith>> in Romans 5:19, but the "many" Romans 5:19 speaks of, "will be made righteous by the obedience of ONE" in their place, FOR them, namely, Jesus Christ.
"Moreover, says Romans 5:20, "THE LAW ENTERED, that the offence abound(ed)" - NOT righteousness or faith! -, of the "many" more, for whom the righteousness of the One, Christ, is NOT "made" THEIR, "righteousness", but by virtue of being Christ's Own Righteousness is made THEIR condemnation instead.
This is the Applied Physics of Christ's Righteousness.
Those who are made righteous by faith in Jesus Christ are made righteous through faith in Jesus Christ.
How do we appropriate the obedience of Jesus Christ (the ONE that is there spoken of) except through faith in Him?
I suppose that we can be technical and stick to what each verse is saying and not bring other biblical understanding into our understanding of the verse; I suppose that in saying that in Romans 5:19 it is saying that we are made righteous through faith in Jesus I was taking a shortcut; assuming that you had a biblical understanding that righteousness is by faith (for example, Romans 1:17).
No, Romans 5:19 does not say that we are made righteous by faith; but it does teach that we are made righteous; and you can add to that the understanding in Habakkuk 2:4, Romans 1:17, Galatians 3:11, and Hebrews 10:38, that the just shall live by faith.
These things should be common knowledge for any Protestant believer because they are the basis and foundation of the reformation.
Sorry, that one went right over my head. Maybe you could expound on your own words so that I can understand better what you're saying.
The Big Mistake.
Long before being wicked could manifest through choice, everyone has been wicked, just by being. It's called man's 'nature'. And nature rules choice; not choice, nature.
1Co 10:12, Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.
1Co 10:13, There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.
Except that, when once a man is offered salvation through faith in Jesus Christ; and he makes the decision to believe, he then becomes born again by God (not by his own will; but as the result of a choice made with his will); as God does the work of regenerating and renewing him in the Holy Ghost as the result of his response to the gospel message in saying yes to Christ and His righteousness.
Thus, his nature is radically altered by his choice; which choice he was only able to make because the Holy Spirit drew him to Christ.
It will not help you. You get it right yourself or not. It's the only way. Calvinists must go slow with Armenians because God is patient but man is impetuous.
Explain what you mean by this.
Because from my perspective, Christ's righteousness imputed to us does not result in condemnation but in salvation.
If you want me to understand your point, ever, you are going to have to make yourself more clear.
But if you want me to not understand your point over the fact that your point is unbiblical and unfounded and therefore you do not want it to come under scrutiny, I suppose that I can understand that.
But if you want me to not understand your point over the fact that your point is unbiblical and unfounded and therefore you do not want it to come under scrutiny, I suppose that I can understand that.
There are no exceptions.
Man is never <<offered salvation>>. He is or he is not GIVEN Salvation.
A sinner does not <<make the decision to believe>>. He is MADE to believe and then decides.
Lost sinner is not <<then>> become born again by God. He is first, born again by God -- mark, by GOD! Unborn cannot even cry, what <<by his own will / decision .. as the result of a choice made with his will>> to be born again. BORN AGAIN IN THE WOMB OF HELL?! Yes, born again are born from the womb, where only God is mighty to give life ore take life.
God does the work of regenerating and renewing the dead in sin while, he is dead in sin. God's Holy Spirit CREATES in the dead in sin, a new heart and a willing spirit, NOT <<as the result of his (-sinner's-) response>> BUT BY THE GOSPEL OF JESUS CHRIST THE CAUSE of the DEAD-in-sin's <<saying yes to Christ and His righteousness>>.
There you see it, the absolutely never absent PREDISPOSITION of the Armenian, Arminian whatever. The man's name was Arminius? Then the Arminian. HOWEVER, the NEVER FAILING PRE-JUDGED FINALITY.
Setting the conditions!
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