Why did Jesus say to become as a child if children (according to you) are heretics?
The common denominator
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No!, it is not why, <according to> me, <<Jesus said to become as a child if children are heretics>>-- it is according to you, that <<if children are heretics .. why did Jesus say to become as a child?>>. I beg your pardon, sir.
I didn't expect free and sovereign grace could make sense to one who knows that <<Calvinism clouds God's goodness and ultimately makes him the author of all evil>>. He must be knowledgeable second to none thinking of the serpent to Eve, Haven't God told you...?.
Ok, one more time: Why did Jesus say we should become as children? Just answer the question!
Sovereign grace is a code word for irresistible grace. It means that in Calvinism, no one can resist God's grace, so some are caused to be saved through no choice of their own and some are rejected through no fault of their own.
I understand Calvinism fine. I've studied it enough. I just find that it's not biblical.
If it had to do with the thread I would have answered. You win man; what do you care?
So near yet so far. . .
Sovereign grace is no semantic <code word>. Sovereign grace is God in condescending love through Jesus Christ.
Sovereign grace is irresistible grace that is almightily recreating a fallen wreck into the object of Divine favour.
Sovereign grace, God's grace, does not <in Calvinism> but in God's plan, design, Power and Way mean that it cannot be resisted or prevented, or thwarted or frustrated by anything -sin- or anybody -sinners-.
<<so some are caused to be saved through no choice of their own>> : AMEN HALLELUIAH
<<... and some are rejected through no fault of their own>> : GOD FORBID!
In God's Eternal Purpose no one is potentially saved to be saved potentially. It's a slap in the face of Christ who saves none but sinners and does a proper job of it IN EACH CASE; He is God after all who does not and never can fail.
<<I understand Calvinism fine. I've studied it enough. I just find that it's not biblical.>> Rejected. 3 times it's <<I... I... I...>>. LET GO AND LET GOD.
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Concerning Irresistible Grace, I once considered it (because it appears to be substantiated by 1 Corinthians 13:8a and Revelation 19:6).
If Irresistible Grace be the reality, then the ultimate conclusion is one of two things:
1) Limited Atonement
2) Universalism.
It is not Limited Atonement because of such verses as 1 Timothy 2:4, 1 Timothy 2:6, and 2 Peter 3:9.
It is not Universalism because of such verses as Matthew 13:41-42, Matthew 13:49-50, and Matthew 25:46.
So then, Irresistible Grace cannot be the reality.
What then of 1 Corinthians 13:8 and Revelation 19:6?
God, in His Omnipotent love, will not fail to give every man a free will choice as to whether he will receive Jesus as his Lord and Saviour and thus be saved unto the kingdom of heaven or else reject the Lordship of Jesus Christ and find themselves in the lake of fire after they have been judged as sinners without a Saviour.
For you see, in Limited Atonement, you have God choosing out people for heaven and hell apart from or against their will.
And in Universalism, man also does not have a choice as to whether he will obey or disobey.
And if it is not Limited Atonement or Universalism, how can Irresistible Grace be the reality?
Love never fails...
Therefore we think that love might never fail to apprehend the ones whom God desires to save.
But God desires to save everyone; and yet not everyone will be saved.
How then did God's love fail?
It didn't.
But God has chosen to give to every man a degree of sovereignty in his own right; so that he can choose whether he will surrender to the Lordship of Jesus Christ or rebel against that Lordship.
That choice will determine where he spends eternity.
If Irresistible Grace be the reality, then the ultimate conclusion is one of two things:
1) Limited Atonement
2) Universalism.
It is not Limited Atonement because of such verses as 1 Timothy 2:4, 1 Timothy 2:6, and 2 Peter 3:9.
It is not Universalism because of such verses as Matthew 13:41-42, Matthew 13:49-50, and Matthew 25:46.
So then, Irresistible Grace cannot be the reality.
What then of 1 Corinthians 13:8 and Revelation 19:6?
God, in His Omnipotent love, will not fail to give every man a free will choice as to whether he will receive Jesus as his Lord and Saviour and thus be saved unto the kingdom of heaven or else reject the Lordship of Jesus Christ and find themselves in the lake of fire after they have been judged as sinners without a Saviour.
For you see, in Limited Atonement, you have God choosing out people for heaven and hell apart from or against their will.
And in Universalism, man also does not have a choice as to whether he will obey or disobey.
And if it is not Limited Atonement or Universalism, how can Irresistible Grace be the reality?
Love never fails...
Therefore we think that love might never fail to apprehend the ones whom God desires to save.
But God desires to save everyone; and yet not everyone will be saved.
How then did God's love fail?
It didn't.
But God has chosen to give to every man a degree of sovereignty in his own right; so that he can choose whether he will surrender to the Lordship of Jesus Christ or rebel against that Lordship.
That choice will determine where he spends eternity.
Impossible under your theology. You don't even understand what you're promoting. Under Calvin, letting go is also all God's doing. I can no more choose to " let go" than I can choose to stop the earth from rotating.
But then, most Calvinists constantly embrace contradiction.
I guess it depends on how you understand how sin comes into our lives. I believe we're born in a sort of living death. That human life perpetuates itself, but in a far different way from the original creation. Then we are reborn, and remade into something better still.
Much love!
I believe we are all born innocent of what right and wrong are. That was the state Adam and Eve were in until God set some rules. Now, we are born selfish, I suppose, to some degree, but is it sinful for a baby to desire to be fed and comfortable? I don't thinks so. Ever notice that some children comply very quickly and some don't? Once we understand right and wrong, which our parents hopefully teach us (but many don't anymore) we can choose right or wrong in any given situation. I remember the first time I committed what seemed to me a grave and premeditated sin. Do you know the stickers that you put on license plates? I'm not sure all states have them. But Dad got one of those stickers in the mail and put the envelope on the frig and instructed us in no uncertain terms that no child was to take this sticker. But it was such a cool sticker and we didn't get cool things often and I took it and stuck it on my pants or shirt, and maybe I imagined it was my sheriff's badge or some such, but I remember feeling overwhelming guilt and when Dad asked about the sticker I confessed. And I was truly sorry for my sin. And Dad forgave me! (That didn't always happen so quickly, I got many spankings later) I don't believe we are born being ok with sinning. I sure wasn't. I believe that when there are never any consequences we quickly learn to justify our sinful actions, but when we are taught right from wrong, we feel guilt, as we should, because we violate our innocence with each sin and that grieves God. We are born with a sin nature perhaps, but I could never embrace the notion of being born in total depravity because it just isn't what I saw in myself or the other children around me growing up.
This is David comparing the wicked and the righteous. It's perhaps exaggeration to make a point, but it indicates that our free will choices to disobey can begin very early. I had a "friend" as a kid, A neighbor boy who would try to get me to do things like stealing. Now, how much of his wayward way was nurture, or lack of it? I do remember him yelling at his mom and calling her " woman ". I was shocked. And he ended up in jail, but again, the Word doesn't excuse us for sin just because we haven't been taught right. Being wicked is a choice.
If that is the case, then according to the verse in question, being wicked is a choice from the moment that a man is born.
Colossians 2:18
For you see, in Limited Atonement, you have God choosing out of hell, people against their will, for eternal salvation.
People fall for the satanic notion Their choice will determine where they will spend eternity while IT IS THEIR CHOICE ALREADY which determined that they are spending eternity in hell NOW. What a warped conception of Gospel Salvation is it which first let you choose to loose salvation you already have so that it can save you out of a new predicament. It's ALTOGETHER FOOLISHNESS!
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