The Divine Exchange

[1stCenturyLady]

No it doesn’t.

It gets you to:

“Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.” (Colossians 3:2)

So we are to:

“Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry: For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience: In the which ye also walked some time, when ye lived in them.” (Colossians 3:5-7)

And because we do these things:

“Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not…” (1 John 3:6)

Because:

“…Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.” (Galatians 5:16)

You are saying the same thing as I am, so why do you say, "No it doesn't? Not fulfilling the lust of the flesh is the same thing as not sinning.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Not quite. He argued that only those Jesus never knew are told to depart, therefore if you're Once Saved, then you're Always Saved.

"Never knew" seems to go along with Calvinism's 'election' and 'chosen.' He speaks against Calvinism, quite rightly. So that is confusing.

 

[Phoneman777]

"Never knew" seems to go along with Calvinism's 'election' and 'chosen.' He speaks against Calvinism, quite rightly. So that is confusing.

The idea that God preprograms some to be saved and others to be lost is so foreign to the character of God borne out in the OT and NT, that one can hardly imagine it would be given any serious consideration, let alone govern the thinking of millions of Christians.

The Gospel of Exclusivity is not just for Luciferians who fashion themselves "specially chosen by Lucifer for illumination" while they scoff at the rest of us, it's alive and well in churches.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

The idea that God preprograms some to be saved and others to be lost is so foreign to the character of God borne out in the OT and NT, that one can hardly imagine it would be given any serious consideration, let alone govern the thinking of millions of Christians.

The Gospel of Exclusivity is not just for Luciferians who fashion themselves "specially chosen by Lucifer for illumination" while they scoff at the rest of us, it's alive and well in churches.

Yes, it is a doctrine of demons for sure. But none of the three of us teach that, though he does seem to talk out of both sides of his mouth and makes some odd claims, and turns around and says the opposite. I can see why you are confused as to what he means.

 

[Phoneman777]

Yes, it is a doctrine of demons for sure. But none of the three of us teach that, though he does seem to talk out of both sides of his mouth and makes some odd claims, and turns around and says the opposite. I can see why you are confused as to what he means.

One inspired writer says God doesn't merely look upon the wretchedness of man, but the potential to become what God originally intended if we would but allow ourselves to be touched by His grace. Now that's a love that can't possibly be reserved, but freely offered to all in my book.

 

[DanielConway]

Doctrine of Demons eh?

Exodus 33:19

19 And the LORD said, “I will cause all my goodness to pass in front of you, and I will proclaim my name, the LORD, in your presence. I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.

I don't know what book your getting your doctrine from, but this ain't "the evil, twisted Paul" talking, but God himself.

 

[DanielConway]

Exodus 33:17 - 23

17 So the Lord said to Moses, “I will also do this thing that you have spoken; for you have found grace in My sight, and I know you by name.”

18 And he said, “Please, show me Your glory.”

19 Then He said, “I will make all My goodness pass before you, and I will proclaim the name of the Lord before you. I will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.” 20 But He said, “You cannot see My face; for no man shall see Me, and live.” 21 And the Lord said, “Here is a place by Me, and you shall stand on the rock. 22 So it shall be, while My glory passes by, that I will put you in the cleft of the rock, and will cover you with My hand while I pass by. 23 Then I will take away My hand, and you shall see My back; but My face shall not be seen.”

What do we learn from this passage? The reason I, you, the Angels, the demons and the entire created order exists is to manifest and be an observer of God's glory! This is the lead aspect of his nature and the dominant element of his being! Does he love? YES! Does he comfort his own when they hurt? YES! Does he love us enough to die and suffer torment for us? YES! BUT THESE ARE DERIVATIVE ASPECTS OF HIS BEING! God's principle purpose in the creation was so that his GLORY could be known.

Isiah 42:

8I am the Lord, that is My name;
And My glory I will not give to another,
Nor My praise to carved images.

Everyone on this page is an IMAGE that God has carved from the mud and if we dare to grab a bit of his Glory by claiming autonomy in our salvation we are IDOLATORs of ourselves and an offense to God. WAKE UP!!

Footnotes

 

[1stCenturyLady]

One inspired writer says God doesn't merely look upon the wretchedness of man, but the potential to become what God originally intended if we would but allow ourselves to be touched by His grace. Now that's a love that can't possibly be reserved, but freely offered to all in my book.

That was what Jesus' life was all about, an example to those in the future after He sent back His Spirit to fill us and make us like Himself. That is why we must be born again of His Spirit. Romans 8:9. 1 John 3:5. John 8:32-36. Romans 8:29-30

 

[1stCenturyLady]

He doesn't tempt us in the 1st person, but in the THIRD PERSON - through the old man of sin.

You do know that the "old man of sin" is dead don't you? We are already free from sin.

Romans 6:6-7
6 knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin. 7 For he who has died has been freed from sin.

But we must also reckon ourselves free from sin verse 11, 22, telling ourselves the truth that sets us free John 8:32-36. Proverbs 23:6, for as a man thinketh in his heart, so is he. We must ward off the doctrines of demons that has filled the church - you will always have sin in you until we shed these bodies of sin. Sounds right, but demons wants you to sin until you die knowing he's gotcha.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Doctrine of Demons eh?

Exodus 33:19

19 And the LORD said, “I will cause all my goodness to pass in front of you, and I will proclaim my name, the LORD, in your presence. I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.

I don't know what book your getting your doctrine from, but this ain't "the evil, twisted Paul" talking, but God himself.

So how about Jude 1:4. He describes a doctrine of demons. Are you Calvinist?

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Doctrine of Demons eh?

Exodus 33:19

19 And the LORD said, “I will cause all my goodness to pass in front of you, and I will proclaim my name, the LORD, in your presence. I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.

I don't know what book your getting your doctrine from, but this ain't "the evil, twisted Paul" talking, but God himself.

The Great Apostasy
Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons,

 

[DanielConway]

1 John 1:

8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Mathew 9:12, 13

12 But when he heard it, he said, “Those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick. but go and learn what this means: ‘I desire mercy, and not sacrifice.’ For I came not to call the righteous, but sinners.”

You seem like a pretty righteous person, but I count myself a sinner, one whom Christ has called.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

1 John 1:

8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Mathew 9:12, 13

12 But when he heard it, he said, “Those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick. but go and learn what this means: ‘I desire mercy, and not sacrifice.’ For I came not to call the righteous, but sinners.”

You seem like a pretty righteous person, but I count myself a sinner, one whom Christ has called.

Yes, you believe the lies of the devil and Calvinist doctrines of demons. Sinners don't to to heaven. Only those who Christ makes FREE INDEED. John 8:32-36.

Then why don't you answer and confess your sin? Then you can be free from sin and a child of God. 1 John 3.

John uses the same word, SAY, and SAYS in 1 John 1 and 2 to contrast those who talk the talk but don't walk the walk. All the verses that use 'say' in 1 John 1 are not a Christian and still have sin in them, never having confessed their sin and been cleansed of ALL UNRIGHTEOUSNESS. And the same goes for 1 John 2 and the word, 'says.'

But again the false teachers twist the meaning to justify sin in their lives.

1 John 1:

5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.

6 If we SAY that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:

7 But if we WALK in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

8 If we SAY that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

10 If we SAY that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

1 John 2:
The Test of Knowing Him
3 Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. 4 He who SAYS, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 5 But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. 6 He who SAYS he abides in Him ought himself also to WALK just as He walked.

7 Brethren, I write no new commandment to you, but an old commandment which you have had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word which you heard from the beginning. 8 Again, a new commandment I write to you, which thing is true in Him and in you, because the darkness is passing away, and the true light is already shining.

9 He who SAYS he is in the light, and hates his brother, is in darkness until now. 10 He who loves his brother abides in the light, and there is no cause for stumbling in him. 11 But he who hates his brother is in darkness and walks in darkness, and does not know where he is going, because the darkness has blinded his eyes.

 

[DanielConway]

36 “Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?”

37 Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”


6 “If anyone causes one of these little ones—those who believe in me—to stumble, it would be better for them to have a large millstone hung around their neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea. 7 Woe to the world because of the things that cause people to stumble! Such things must come, but woe to the person through whom they come!

 

[1stCenturyLady]

36 “Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?”

37 Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”

1stCenturyLady when you make confession of sin to you a condition of my salvation, you place yourself in the role of God and blaspheme him thereby. I wonder how many of your little friends had their faith destroyed by this God shit smearing lie?

6 “If anyone causes one of these little ones—those who believe in me—to stumble, it would be better for them to have a large millstone hung around their neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea. 7 Woe to the world because of the things that cause people to stumble! Such things must come, but woe to the person through whom they come!

The doctrines you believe are causing you to sin. Proverbs 23:6 for as a man thinks in his heart, so is he. You believe with pride that you are a sinner. Can't you see the demons teaching you to sin, confess, sin, confess. That is not repentance. Acts 2:38 is done ONCE, and you are free from sin having been cleansed of all unrighteousness 1 John 1:9. Your doctrine believes you still have sin, and until you believe the truth that will set you free from sin, you always will, and despise those who have actually been freed from sin. Romans 6:1-23.

1 John 3:
7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

Instead you are taught that 1 John 1:8 is about a Christian, when the next verse is actually how to BECOME a Christian and no longer sin. Then you are no longer a liar when the truth is in you. John 8:32-36. Do you own a Bible to read on your own?

 

[Behold]

I don't need to be told, silly. With God inside me making me a new creature that loves righteousness as part of my divine nature, Get it?

If you are born again....then the day you came to God, you were "ungodly", and He gave you "the Gift of Righteousness".

So, you were not "loving righteousness" all those years you were a dirty rotten sinner, and that DAY you came to God, through Christ, you were still ungodly.
Then you gave God your Faith, and God gave you the "gift of Righteousness"., and you were "made righteous", and can never become more righteous.
So, you instantly went from "ungodly" to "the righteousness of God". "In Christ"?

Get it?

Then you have the life you live, having that righteousness that does not change, not matter your behavior = as God gave it to you when you were "ungodly".

 

[Behold]

I don't understand why you can't understand what I'm saying even after multiple times. Is English not your first language? Is it Hebrew?

You believe you can lose your salvation..
You posted to me, your single reason, for believing this lie and teaching this lie.
This means you have limited, at best, trust in Christ, and some trust in not doing whatever it is that you believe has more power to cause you to lose your salvation than God has , through Christ, to keep your salvation.
= Philippians 1:6
So, you dont need to pretend you understand anything about the Cross,... and I understood this perfectly about you when you were chasing me around on this forum, as another alt name over a year ago, talking about "gnostics", and you also at that time had no actual understanding about that topic.
You speak "christianese", but that carnal language is a fail regarding "rightly dividing the word".

 

[1stCenturyLady]

If you are born again....then the day you came to God, you were "ungodly", and He gave you "the Gift of Righteousness".

So, you were not "loving righteousness" all those years you were a dirty rotten sinner, and that DAY you came to God, through Christ, you were still ungodly.
Then you gave God your Faith, and God gave you the "gift of Righteousness"., and you were "made righteous", and can never become more righteous.
So, you instantly went from "ungodly" to "the righteousness of God". "In Christ"?

Get it?

Then you have the life you live, having that righteousness that does not change, not matter your behavior = as God gave it to you when you were "ungodly".

You are writing about what I was like BEFORE coming to Christ. I was talking about the power Jesus gave me AFTER coming to Christ. Get it? Can't you see when we agree?

 

[1stCenturyLady]

You believe you can lose your salvation..
You posted to me, your single reason, for believing this lie and teaching this lie.
This means you have limited, at best, trust in Christ, and some trust in not doing whatever it is that you believe has more power to cause you to lose your salvation than God has , through Christ, to keep your salvation.
= Philippians 1:6
So, you dont need to pretend you understand anything about the Cross,... and I understood this perfectly about you when you were chasing me around on this forum, as another alt name over a year ago, talking about "gnostics", and you also at that time had no actual understanding about that topic.
You speak "christianese", but that carnal language is a fail regarding "rightly dividing the word".

So do you. You said in this very thread:

So, there go your sins. = Jesus bore them all.......IF you are born again.

Now, if you decide to live in the flesh, and continually commit works of the flesh.
Here is what happens.
Your faith will become DEAD, and "christian stuff" will become completely unimportant to you as you mind slides deeper and deeper into "darkness".
THEN....
You will begin to suffer down here.
The hardships and the hurt will come and come and come and won't stop harming you.
You'll lose everything, eventually.....including your health, and if you still wont stop and turn back to GOD, even after God corrects you time after time, .. Paul says you will DIE.

That is the same as this:

Romans 6:6-16
6 knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin. 7 For he who has died has been freed from sin. 8 Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him, 9 knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, dies no more. Death no longer has dominion over Him. 10 For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God. 11 Likewise you also, reckon yourselves to be dead indeed to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus our Lord.

12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts. 13 And do not present your members as instruments of unrighteousness to sin, but present yourselves to God as being alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God. 14 For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace.

15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? Certainly not! 16 Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness?

What I teach is to keep yourself free from sin and never go against your conscience. 1 John 5:18 We know that whoever is born of God does not sin; but he who has been born of God keeps himself, and the wicked one does not touch him.

If we could never choose to sin again, then Hebrews 10:26-31 would not apply to those it said are sanctified. But it does.

 

[DanielConway]

Let's take a look at another superior translation.

1 John 6
6 No one who lives in him practices sin. No one who practices sin has either seen him or known him.

The term practices essentially implies a philsophical life norm, which indeed the true christian does not have with regard to sin. But it does NOT imply perfection. The Bible says regarding the nature of the transformation that Christ effects in the life of the believer "being confident of this very thing, that He who has begun a good work in you will complete it until the day of Jesus Christ"; Phillipians 1 :6. If you people run around telling the curious as well as the new convert that Christ expects them to conform to every aspect of Christ's nature instantaneously or even after a long period of growth those are precisely the standards he will hold you to, you whore mongering bastard who can barely keep his hands off the littluns. You'd better be able to face him tonight if that is your current state of mind.