You don't lift a handful or two out of the context of the whole and build a doctrine out of it....that is how false doctrines are concocted....and that is why the Body of Christ lies in over 33,000 pieces today.
The Doctrine of OSAS
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Who was that covenant made to? You've got to keep it in context.justaname said:
27 "Behold, I am the LORD, the God of all flesh. Is there anything too hard for Me?
28 "Therefore thus says the LORD:`Behold, I will give this city into the hand of the Chaldeans, into the hand of Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon, and he shall take it.
29 `And the Chaldeans who fight against this city shall come and set fire to this city and burn it, with the houses on whose roofs they have offered incense to Baal and poured out drink offerings to other gods, to provoke Me to anger;
30 `because the children of Israel and the children of Judah have done only evil before Me from their youth. For the children of Israel have provoked Me only to anger with the work of their hands," says the LORD.
31 `For this city has been to Me a provocation of My anger and My fury from the day that they built it, even to this day; so I will remove it from before My face
32 `because of all the evil of the children of Israel and the children of Judah, which they have done to provoke Me to anger-- they, their kings, their princes, their priests, their prophets, the men of Judah, and the inhabitants of Jerusalem.
33 `And they have turned to Me the back, and not the face; though I taught them, rising up early and teaching them, yet they have not listened to receive instruction.
34 `But they set their abominations in the house which is called by My name, to defile it.
35 `And they built the high places of Baal which are in the Valley of the Son of Hinnom, to cause their sons and their daughters to pass through the fire to Molech, which I did not command them, nor did it come into My mind that they should do this abomination, to cause Judah to sin.'
36 "Now therefore, thus says the LORD, the God of Israel, concerning this city of which you say,`It shall be delivered into the hand of the king of Babylon by the sword, by the famine, and by the pestilence':
37 `Behold, I will gather them out of all countries where I have driven them in My anger, in My fury, and in great wrath; I will bring them back to this place, and I will cause them to dwell safely.
38 `They shall be My people, and I will be their God;
39 `then I will give them one heart and one way, that they may fear Me forever, for the good of them and their children after them.
40 `And I will make an everlasting covenant with them, that I will not turn away from doing them good; but I will put My fear in their hearts so that they will not depart from Me.
41 `Yes, I will rejoice over them to do them good, and I will assuredly plant them in this land, with all My heart and with all My soul.'
42 "For thus says the LORD:`Just as I have brought all this great calamity on this people, so I will bring on them all the good that I have promised them.
43 `And fields will be bought in this land of which you say, "It is desolate, without man or beast; it has been given into the hand of the Chaldeans."
44 `Men will buy fields for money, sign deeds and seal them, and take witnesses, in the land of Benjamin, in the places around Jerusalem, in the cities of Judah, in the cities of the mountains, in the cities of the lowland, and in the cities of the South; for I will cause their captives to return,' says the LORD." (Jer. 32:27-44 NKJ)
Moreover the word of the LORD came to Jeremiah a second time, while he was still shut up in the court of the prison, saying,
2 "Thus says the LORD who made it, the LORD who formed it to establish it (the LORD is His name):
3 `Call to Me, and I will answer you, and show you great and mighty things, which you do not know.'
4 "For thus says the LORD, the God of Israel, concerning the houses of this city and the houses of the kings of Judah, which have been pulled down to fortify against the siege mounds and the sword:
5 `They come to fight with the Chaldeans, but only to fill their places with the dead bodies of men whom I will slay in My anger and My fury, all for whose wickedness I have hidden My face from this city.
6 `Behold, I will bring it health and healing; I will heal them and reveal to them the abundance of peace and truth.
7 `And I will cause the captives of Judah and the captives of Israel to return, and will rebuild those places as at the first.
8 `I will cleanse them from all their iniquity by which they have sinned against Me, and I will pardon all their iniquities by which they have sinned and by which they have transgressed against Me.
9 `Then it shall be to Me a name of joy, a praise, and an honor before all nations of the earth, who shall hear all the good that I do to them; they shall fear and tremble for all the goodness and all the prosperity that I provide for it.'
10 "Thus says the LORD:`Again there shall be heard in this place-- of which you say, "It is desolate, without man and without beast "-- in the cities of Judah, in the streets of Jerusalem that are desolate, without man and without inhabitant and without beast,
11 `the voice of joy and the voice of gladness, the voice of the bridegroom and the voice of the bride, the voice of those who will say: "Praise the LORD of hosts, For the LORD is good, For His mercy endures forever "-- and of those who will bring the sacrifice of praise into the house of the LORD. For I will cause the captives of the land to return as at the first,' says the LORD.
12 "Thus says the LORD of hosts:`In this place which is desolate, without man and without beast, and in all its cities, there shall again be a dwelling place of shepherds causing their flocks to lie down.
13 `In the cities of the mountains, in the cities of the lowland, in the cities of the South, in the land of Benjamin, in the places around Jerusalem, and in the cities of Judah, the flocks shall again pass under the hands of him who counts them,' says the LORD.
14 `Behold, the days are coming,' says the LORD,`that I will perform that good thing which I have promised to the house of Israel and to the house of Judah:
15 `In those days and at that time I will cause to grow up to David A Branch of righteousness; He shall execute judgment and righteousness in the earth.
16 In those days Judah will be saved, And Jerusalem will dwell safely. And this is the name by which she will be called: THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.'
17 "For thus says the LORD:`David shall never lack a man to sit on the throne of the house of Israel;
18 `nor shall the priests, the Levites, lack a man to offer burnt offerings before Me, to kindle grain offerings, and to sacrifice continually.'"
19 And the word of the LORD came to Jeremiah, saying,
20 "Thus says the LORD:`If you can break My covenant with the day and My covenant with the night, so that there will not be day and night in their season,
21 `then My covenant may also be broken with David My servant, so that he shall not have a son to reign on his throne, and with the Levites, the priests, My ministers.
22 `As the host of heaven cannot be numbered, nor the sand of the sea measured, so will I multiply the descendants of David My servant and the Levites who minister to Me.'" (Jer. 33:1-22 NKJ)
If you read it in context it's pretty clear that it is talking about the kingdom being established at Christ's return.
Why are there so many atheists....literally hundreds if not thousands of them....who began as Christians? What happened to their eternal security?
Thank you, Butch.Butch5 said:
See, that's what I mean about lifting verses from the context of the Bible.
Someone who does not read or study for themselves would be taken in by theses random verses.
And perhaps once, there was an excuse for that....
But kids, this is the digital age. If an old lady like me can learn to use a computer.....anyone can do it.
Remember....GOOGLE is your friend!
Jos 24:15 And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.justaname said:
Here we see that the people had a CHOICE.
Rev 3:20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.justaname said:
Here again, there is an "IF". You can choose not to open the door.
- Mar 14, 2011
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The unregenerate is bent on sin, enslaved to it. The heart is desperately wicked.
Once regenerated we are enslaved to righteousness. Only from this point can we freely choose to serve and obey God.
Once regenerated we are enslaved to righteousness. Only from this point can we freely choose to serve and obey God.
Let's not forget that there are tares planted among the wheat.
A tare is a weed that looks just like a stalk of wheat...but it produces no fruit.
Mat 13:24 Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field:
Mat 13:25 But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way.
Mat 13:26 But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also.
Mat 13:27 So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares?
Mat 13:28 He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up?
Mat 13:29 But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them.
Mat 13:30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.
A tare is a weed that looks just like a stalk of wheat...but it produces no fruit.
Mat 13:24 Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field:
Mat 13:25 But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way.
Mat 13:26 But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also.
Mat 13:27 So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares?
Mat 13:28 He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up?
Mat 13:29 But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them.
Mat 13:30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.
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The perseverance of the saints means that all those who are truly born again will be kept by God’s power and will persevere as Christians until the end of their lives, and that only those who persevere until the end have been truly born again.
Wayne Grudem from Systematic Theology (pg. 788)
If our religion be of our own getting or making, it will perish; and the sooner it goes, the better; but if our religion is a matter of God's giving, we know that He shall never take back what He gives, and that, if He has commenced to work in us by His grace, He will never leave it unfinished.
C.H. Spurgeon
For non-reformed theologies..."at the end of the day, the security of the believer finally rests with the believer. For those in the opposite camp [Reformed], the security of the believer finally rests with God -- and that, I suggest, rightly taught, draws the believer back to God himself, to trust in God, to a renewed faith that is of a piece with trusting him in the first place."
D.A. Carson
When we speak of “once saved, always saved,” we are not taking into account the full scope of salvation. We have been saved (justification), was are being saved (sanctified), and we will one day be saved (glorified). You cannot claim to have been “saved” (justified) unless you are being sanctified. Jesus Christ is Savior and Lord.
Michael Horton from Putting the Amazing Back into Grace (pg. 171)
Those who think they can lose their salvation are not trusting in Jesus Christ alone for salvation but partly trusting in their own righteousness. Such teaching would have you believe that the sacrifice of Jesus was insufficient to make his people perfect forever (Heb 10:14) or save them to the uttermost (Heb 7:25) [i.e. that Jesus is not enough]. ... such that, in addition to what Christ did, they must join their own ability to persevere to the end in order to maintain their own just standing before God. The book of Hebrews and Galatians severely warns against this and all teaching that rejects the sufficiency of Christ alone (Heb 6 & 10; Gal 3:3). Such persons think Christ made the down payment on their salvation but that they have to keep up the monthly installments (so to speak). I total misapprehension of the meaning of paid in full."
Wayne Grudem from Systematic Theology (pg. 788)
If our religion be of our own getting or making, it will perish; and the sooner it goes, the better; but if our religion is a matter of God's giving, we know that He shall never take back what He gives, and that, if He has commenced to work in us by His grace, He will never leave it unfinished.
C.H. Spurgeon
For non-reformed theologies..."at the end of the day, the security of the believer finally rests with the believer. For those in the opposite camp [Reformed], the security of the believer finally rests with God -- and that, I suggest, rightly taught, draws the believer back to God himself, to trust in God, to a renewed faith that is of a piece with trusting him in the first place."
D.A. Carson
When we speak of “once saved, always saved,” we are not taking into account the full scope of salvation. We have been saved (justification), was are being saved (sanctified), and we will one day be saved (glorified). You cannot claim to have been “saved” (justified) unless you are being sanctified. Jesus Christ is Savior and Lord.
Michael Horton from Putting the Amazing Back into Grace (pg. 171)
Those who think they can lose their salvation are not trusting in Jesus Christ alone for salvation but partly trusting in their own righteousness. Such teaching would have you believe that the sacrifice of Jesus was insufficient to make his people perfect forever (Heb 10:14) or save them to the uttermost (Heb 7:25) [i.e. that Jesus is not enough]. ... such that, in addition to what Christ did, they must join their own ability to persevere to the end in order to maintain their own just standing before God. The book of Hebrews and Galatians severely warns against this and all teaching that rejects the sufficiency of Christ alone (Heb 6 & 10; Gal 3:3). Such persons think Christ made the down payment on their salvation but that they have to keep up the monthly installments (so to speak). I total misapprehension of the meaning of paid in full."
Christ's followers are not slaves. We are His friends.justaname said:
Joh 15:15 Henceforth I call you not servants; for the servant knoweth not what his lord doeth: but I have called you friends; for all things that I have heard of my Father I have made known unto you.
Ahh, yes...but let me tell you another parable....justaname said:
Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
And I have said before...we all of us, every filthy, disgusting sinner among us, we all belong at Jesus' feet, like that beautiful woman who washed his feet with her tears, and dried them with her hair.justaname said:
I very much fear that we have become so familiar with the phrase "Christ was crucified" that it no longer has the shock value it once had.
And that is very sad....
FHII
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- Apr 9, 2011
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I'm one of those who reads but doesn't post (or in my case, rarely posts these days). Let ne put it to you this way: I'm not impressed. There are some glimmers of light, but I don't see alot of people listening to undetstand anyone else's perspective.Butch5 said:
A very small example: someone stated that grace isn't a license to sin. That oerson ought to look into the history of that analogy. They'd be shocked and probably embarrassed.
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