ATP said:
These passages are describing false prophets and teachers, similar to how the entire chapter is. Yet you refuse to accept this. Never stop sinning describes nonbelievers...Rom 6:14 NIV, 1 John 3:6 NIV, 1 John 3:9 NIV, 1 John 5:18 NIV.
2 Pet 2:13-16 NIV They will be paid back with harm for the harm they have done. Their idea of pleasure is to carouse in broad daylight. They are blots and blemishes, reveling in their pleasures while they feast with you. 14With eyes full of adultery, they never stop sinning; they seduce the unstable; they are experts in greed—an accursed brood! 15They have left the straight way and wandered off to follow the way of Balaam son of Bezer, who loved the wages of wickedness. 16But he was rebuked for his wrongdoing by a donkey—an animal without speech—who spoke with a human voice and restrained the prophet’s madness.
From your NIV:
20 If they have escaped the corruption of the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and are again entangled in it and are overcome, they are worse off at the end than they were at the beginning. 21 It would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than to have known it and then to turn their backs on the sacred command that was passed on to them. 22 Of them the proverbs are true: “A dog returns to its vomit,”[
g] and, “A sow that is washed returns to her wallowing in the mud.”
Can you not see that these people had "escaped the corruption of the world by knowing our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ"?
ATP....you said it yourself....these guys were apostates. These are people who once had faith, but who left their faith....and have gotten entangles in the same corruption they had escaped from.
They knew the way of righteousness...but they turned their backs on the sacred command that was passed on to them. 22 Of them the proverbs are true: “A dog returns to its vomit,”[
g] and, “A sow that is washed returns to her wallowing in the mud.”
From my beloved KJV
2Pe 2:20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
2Pe 2:21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
2Pe 2:22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.
And it isn't going to matter what version you go to, ATP...
Yes, these guys became false teachers....but first they had to leave the truth they had known...they had to turn their backs on the Holy Commandment they had received.
13 They will be paid back with harm for the harm they have done. Their idea of pleasure is to carouse in broad daylight. They are blots and blemishes, reveling in their pleasures while they feast with you. 14With eyes full of adultery, they never stop sinning; they seduce the unstable; they are experts in greed—an accursed brood! 15They have left the straight way and wandered off to follow the way of Balaam son of Bezer, who loved the wages of wickedness. 16But he was rebuked for his wrongdoing by a donkey—an animal without speech—who spoke with a human voice and restrained the prophet’s madness.
Notice verse 15. They
LEFT the straight way. In other words they had been on the straight way...but they wandered off in a different direction.
I know these verses are difficult for you, and I'm quite sure you'd rather not think about them...but ATP...they aren't going anywhere.
The plain fact is that these verses shoot the OSAS doctrine full of holes, and you know it.
Hey...it's okay to be wrong. You're still just a green kid...so you got caught up in a very popular false doctrine. As long as you wipe the sleep out of your eyes before it is too late.
Honestly, no one will lose respect for you if you simply admit the truth.
If anything, we will have more respect for you than we have for this desperate clinging to this total lie.