CharismaticLady
Well-Known Member
I don't know if you've said as I haven't read all the posts, but when do these 1260 years, plus don't forget the other 1260 years start? 2520 years.
The False Doctrine of a 7-year Tribulation
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I don't know if you've said as I haven't read all the posts, but when do these 1260 years, plus don't forget the other 1260 years start? 2520 years.
CharismaticLady
Well-Known Member
The Hebrew word is shabua which simply means sevens or heptads. However, *sevens* would make no sense in English, but heptad would. Instead the translators chose the word "weeks" since people know that a week consists of seven days, while many would not understand heptad. But the context makes it clear that those are weeks of years, for a total of 490 years. But there in one *week* (or seven years) which is yet in the future.
Actually Romans 11 confirms that redeemed and restored Israel will be distinct from the Church, and will be a fulfillment of the Abrahamic Covenant. God has a distinct plan for Israel ON EARTH. That is very clear from the OT. Israel will extend from the Nile to the Euphrates (which would mean about 10 times the present land-mass of Israel). That is within the Abrahamic Covenant.
I'm not sure exactly what you mean. God allows Satan and the Antichrist just a limited period of time -- 3 1/2 years to exercise total control over the earth. Then He brings judgments on them. Even that much time is too much, but that is how God works for His own purposes.
REVELATION 13
4 And they worshipped the dragon [Satan] which gave power unto the beast [the Antichrist]: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?
5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months. [3 1/2 years]
6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.
7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
Brakelite
Well-Known Member
Those of you rejecting the day/year principle are trampling upon centuries of testimony that accurately identified the papacy as Antichrist. Every Protestant reformer from the time of Wickliffe and Tyndale to William Miller and others around the world recognised that the 1260 years, which could be viewed in two ways, confirmed the papacy as the man of sin. History and the testimony of Martyrs affirms the biblical record. You have nothing to stand on but your faint hopes of some future individual firing the criteria. Which he cannot because it's too late.
533ad to 1793bc are historically affirmed 1260 years. From the decree of Justinian declaring the legality of papal rule to the decree of Napoleon renouncing it.
And from 538ad to 1798bc. From the deliverance of Rome from the Ostrogoths through the Roman general Belisarius in 538 freeing the pope to take sovereignty, to 1798 when Napoleon general Berthier invaded Rome, took the pope prisoner and declared the papal states a French republic. The papacy as a union of church and state was dead.
Oh, but that mortal wound was healed in 1929 when Mussolini declared the Vatican an independent state once again. The papacy was back. History my friends which attests to the fulfillment of the prophecy and validates completely the day year principle.
Not to forget that the woman, chased into the wilderness and persecuted there by the papacy, and fed by God during that same period, was the true church upholding the gospel and continuing the work of the apostles throughout the world. Deny all the above if you like, but in doing so you are protecting the papacy from clear condemnation of prophetic scripture and doing the work of the Jesuits who invented your futurist and preterist views that hide the papacy away from being identified as the man of sin.
And today, because you fail to open your eyes to prophecy, you fail to see how it will all play out tomorrow... How it is playing it today under your very noses. And the Vatican exalts in your blindness. Little wonder that protestantism today holds no threat to Rome.
533ad to 1793bc are historically affirmed 1260 years. From the decree of Justinian declaring the legality of papal rule to the decree of Napoleon renouncing it.
And from 538ad to 1798bc. From the deliverance of Rome from the Ostrogoths through the Roman general Belisarius in 538 freeing the pope to take sovereignty, to 1798 when Napoleon general Berthier invaded Rome, took the pope prisoner and declared the papal states a French republic. The papacy as a union of church and state was dead.
Oh, but that mortal wound was healed in 1929 when Mussolini declared the Vatican an independent state once again. The papacy was back. History my friends which attests to the fulfillment of the prophecy and validates completely the day year principle.
Not to forget that the woman, chased into the wilderness and persecuted there by the papacy, and fed by God during that same period, was the true church upholding the gospel and continuing the work of the apostles throughout the world. Deny all the above if you like, but in doing so you are protecting the papacy from clear condemnation of prophetic scripture and doing the work of the Jesuits who invented your futurist and preterist views that hide the papacy away from being identified as the man of sin.
And today, because you fail to open your eyes to prophecy, you fail to see how it will all play out tomorrow... How it is playing it today under your very noses. And the Vatican exalts in your blindness. Little wonder that protestantism today holds no threat to Rome.
CharismaticLady
Well-Known Member
That is what I also believe, but I cannot overlook that it could also refer to the 7 year Jewish revolt from 66 AD to 73 AD when in the midst of the week sacrifices were forever abolished by the destruction of the temple. But this is where the mystery of the paradigms come into play. It is the same thing that happened in 167 BC to 160 BC when in the midst of the week a pig was sacrificed on the Jewish altar defiling the Jewish temple. Like you I believe there is still one week to come.
CharismaticLady
Well-Known Member
Excuse me but we aren't even discussing who the future Antichrist is, and you haven't a clue who I believe that to be, so don't go accusing me of trampling on anything.
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Brakelite
Well-Known Member
The very fact that you believe the Antichrist is future is sufficient evidence you have trampled upon the testimony of the reformers who all agreed that the papal system was the Antichrist. Although it must be said that some considered the pope himself, or the office, and thus the succession of Popes to be Antichrist.
CharismaticLady
Well-Known Member
What makes you think you have a right to be so personally abusive and unpleasant? Just state what you believe and leave it at that.
It may be a pope, but not every pope. As far as the Reformers, there has been more false doctrine out of the Reformation that turned the grace of God into licentiousness than the papacy every did, except for venerating a new queen of heaven straight out of paganism.
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There will definitely be a National Israel that is saved. (Rom. 9-11). But that does not make them part of the Church.
The Church is unique body of believers. Israel is a unique body of believers.
The Church is a Bride to be for the Son, at this present time. (2 Cor. 11:2) (Eph. 5:23) Israel is a divorced wife of the Father, at this present time. (Is. 50:1) (Jer. 3:8) (Hosea 2:2)
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Keraz
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This false belief is a direct contradiction of the Bible truth of there being only ONE people of God. John 17:20-23, Ephesians 4:4-6, +
The body of born again Christians, Jew and Gentile, form every race and language, is the church of God
The Jewish State of Israel is a nation made up many races, who falsely claim the name of Israel. They face punishment on the forthcoming Day of the Lord's fiery wrath. Ezekiel 20:1-7, Zephaniah 1:14-18, Romans 9:27
CharismaticLady
Well-Known Member
The national Jews were the first to come into the Church. Is Christ now a bigamist? Does He have two or three wives?
No, its one 1260 period, and if you need to find it, just look up the "Dark Ages" also known as the Middle Ages and you will find it.
Just for the record, it should be pointed out that Ezekiel's Temple will never be built.
This deserves its own thread so I'll be brief...
The vision Ezekiel was given was a *conditional promise*. In other words, if the Israelites repented and followed God once again, the Temple would be built. Since they didn't repent, the deal was terminated.
The Key verse can be found here...
Ezekiel 43:11
"And if they be ashamed of all that they have done, shew them the form of the house, and the fashion thereof, and the goings out thereof, and the comings in thereof, and all the forms thereof, and all the ordinances thereof, and all the forms thereof, and all the laws thereof: and write it in their sight, that they may keep the whole form thereof, and all the ordinances thereof, and do them"
That's a big 'if'.
Since they weren't ashamed, the Temple Plans were scrapped.
It should also be noted that anyone who believes Ezekiel's Temple will still be built is going against Scripture and are promoting the agenda to create another Manmade Temple in Israel.
Anyhow, those interested can fast forward to 31:40 in this video for a detailed explanation...
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May I suggest another viewpoint...
The 1,260 years began at Mt Sinai.
Observe...
Revelation 12:5
"And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne"
That would be Sarah giving birth to Isaac who represents 'Abraham's Seed' and eventually Christ.
Next...
Revelation 12:6
"And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days"
The above verse refers to Israel fleeing to the Wilderness.
Next...
Revelation 12:15
"And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood"
The above verse refers to the parting of the Red Sea account.
Etc. Etc.
It all fits if One is open minded enough to study it all out.
This explains the times and times and half better than me...
"Then the saints shall be given into his hand
For a time and times and half a time (Daniel 7:25 NKJV).
In this passage, a “time” represents a year. The period described as “time and times and half a time” is thus a three and a half year period. The New Century Version of the Bible renders the text "three and a half years." For further confirmation of this time period, we can turn to Revelation 12:14, which uses the same expression.
In other verses, the same event is described in different words. This parallelism gives us greater clarity about the precise time period involved. In Revelation 12:6, the same time period is given as, "a thousand two hundred and three score days." This is 1260 prophetic days, or three and a half prophetic years.
In Bible prophecy, a day represents a year. Numbers 14:34 says, “After the number of the days in which ye searched the land, even forty days, each day for a year, shall ye bear your iniquities, even forty years.” See also Ezekiel 4:6.
According to the day-year principle, 1260 prophetic days becomes 1260 years. The word used here for "time" means a prophetic year consisting of 360 days. Therefore, "time and times and half a time" refers to three and a half prophetic years, consisting of 1260 prophetic days. This is highlighted in the parallelism of the prophecy in Revelation where the three and a half year period is equated with 1260 prophetic days, or 1260 literal years."
The saints were to be handed over to it | 1260 years
"Then the saints shall be given into his hand
For a time and times and half a time (Daniel 7:25 NKJV).
In this passage, a “time” represents a year. The period described as “time and times and half a time” is thus a three and a half year period. The New Century Version of the Bible renders the text "three and a half years." For further confirmation of this time period, we can turn to Revelation 12:14, which uses the same expression.
In other verses, the same event is described in different words. This parallelism gives us greater clarity about the precise time period involved. In Revelation 12:6, the same time period is given as, "a thousand two hundred and three score days." This is 1260 prophetic days, or three and a half prophetic years.
In Bible prophecy, a day represents a year. Numbers 14:34 says, “After the number of the days in which ye searched the land, even forty days, each day for a year, shall ye bear your iniquities, even forty years.” See also Ezekiel 4:6.
According to the day-year principle, 1260 prophetic days becomes 1260 years. The word used here for "time" means a prophetic year consisting of 360 days. Therefore, "time and times and half a time" refers to three and a half prophetic years, consisting of 1260 prophetic days. This is highlighted in the parallelism of the prophecy in Revelation where the three and a half year period is equated with 1260 prophetic days, or 1260 literal years."
The saints were to be handed over to it | 1260 years
No, that was the true church, basically the believers that were being persecuted that had to flee from the apostate church. Here is a good explanation...
"The Woman Symbolizes the Church
Revelation 12 is basically the narrative account of a beautiful, sun-clad woman and her descendants. “And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars” (Revelation 12:1).
Here we are introduced to one of the most familiar symbols in the Bible. In both the Old and the New Testaments, God represents His people by a woman. As the bridegroom, He is married to the church. Paul wrote to the Corinthians, “I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ” (2 Corinthians 11:2).
All through the Bible we can follow the record of this symbolism. God said in the Old Testament, “I have likened the daughter of Zion to a comely and delicate woman” (Jeremiah 6:2). And again, “Say unto Zion, Thou art my people” (Isaiah 51:16). The church is called Zion and God compares it with a beautiful woman. In the Old Testament, Israel was the chosen people so often portrayed as being married to God.
In the New Testament, the true Israel of God is no longer a nation but a church composed of Jews and Gentiles who receive Christ as their Savior. Therefore, the woman of Revelation 12 flashes us the picture-story of the church at the time of Christ. The clothing of sunlight typifies the glorious New Covenant of grace, and the twelve stars represent the twelve apostles. The moon under her feet indicates the fading glory of the Old Covenant in the presence of the true Lamb of God....
Persecution of the Church
With no direct access to Jesus, the dragon (Rome) now turned his anger against the followers of Christ, the church: “And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child” (Revelation 12:13).
These words provide only a tiny hint of the horror of the violence which broke forth against the apostolic church. Practically all the early disciples and church leaders were martyred for their faith. Cruel pagan emperors turned the sporting arenas and coliseums into theaters of death for those who followed the true gospel.
Soon pagan Rome yielded to papal Rome, and the persecutions continued with even greater force. Millions died under the terrible inquisitions which sought to eradicate all opposition to the papal system. Historians estimate that during the Dark Ages more that fifty million people laid down their lives rather than yield up their Protestant faith.
But let’s follow the tragic story in our prophetic outline. Revelation 12:14 tells us what the true church did as the pressures of persecution built up to a climax: “And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.”
In order to escape extinction, the faithful Protestant refugees fled back into the Alpine mountains and valleys holding onto the true doctrine delivered by Jesus. Another book of Acts could be written about the heroism of the Waldenses, Huguenots, and Albigenses who refused to surrender their faith during those centuries of fierce oppression. God fought for them, and sometimes the pursuing armies of Rome were cut off by mysterious avalanches and rock slides. At other times the mountain streams were reddened by the blood of those faithful ones who sealed their devotion to the truth with their lives. The Revelation prophecy gives a symbolic picture of the desperate attempts made to wipe out those minority Christians who were now in hiding for their very survival: “And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood” (Revelation 12:15).
How long was the true church to remain out of sight in the wilderness? The prophecy declares it would be for “a time, times, and half a time.” How mysterious! What is meant by this strange description of the time period involved? When would it end? The answer is found in verse 6: “And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.”
Now the picture begins to clear up. One verse says the woman was in the wilderness for 1,260 days and the other verse says she was there for “a time, times, and half a time.” These two periods are equal. This means that a “time” has to be a year in prophetic symbolism, “times” is two years, and “half a time” is half a year. When we add up the one, the two, and the half, we get three and a half years. And that is equal to exactly 1,260 days, using the Bible reckoning of 30 days to the month.
There is one more principle of prophetic interpretation to take into account here. In symbolic Bible prophecy a day always stands for a year. You will find the key for that principle in Ezekiel 4:6: “I have appointed thee each day for a year.” It is laid down elsewhere in these words: “. . . forty days, each day for a year” (Numbers 14:34).
Please note that this applies only to symbolic prophecy, and cannot be read into other portions of the Scripture. A day is used for a year only in the setting of an obvious prophetic context. This places the woman in her wilderness hideaway for the full period of 1,260 literal years.
Our conclusion must be, then, that the true church could not appear in the world until the end of the 1,260 years. Did such a thing happen to the true people of God? How long did the papal power continue to suppress the true doctrines by the exercise of her religio-political authority?
Here is a fascinating point of history. In a.d. 538 a decree by Emperor Justinian went into effect which assigned absolute spiritual preeminence to the church of Rome. Gradually, this religious tyranny drifted into union with civil powers until eventually kings were forced to seek permission from the pope before they could begin to rule. This authority remained in force until the year 1798 when Europe was rocked by the French Revolution. In the subsequent rebellion of the oppressed peasants against the privileged clergy, the pope was captured in 1798. The papal property was confiscated, and the French Directory government decreed that there would be no more Bishop of Rome. The oppressive rule of the papacy ended exactly 1,260 years after it was inaugurated in A.D. 538."... The Search for the True Church | Free Book Library | Amazing Facts
And here is more at another site...
"A woman - God's people, which is His Church, are likened unto a comely and delicate woman of virgin purity, or uncorrupted, in the Bible. (Jeremiah 6:2; Isaiah 51:16; 54:5-6; 2 Corinthians 11:2; Ephesians 5:23-27, 31-32)
This woman, clothed with the heavenly bodies that God created to give light to the earth, (Genesis 1:14-17) (just as God said of His believers that they are the light of the world. Matthew 5:14) is in striking contrast to the woman of chapter 17, who is clothed and adorned with earthly things and has corrupted her purity in being a harlot.
There is no doubt that this woman is a representation of the True Church of God, for it is this woman that brings forth/gives birth to the man child, Jesus, and is persecuted after His ascension, verses 2, 4-6.
In the Old Testament we are introduced to 2 women, from whence these symbols are derived, the one representing Babylon, (Isaiah 47:1) and the other Jerusalem. (Jeremiah 6:2) Once again we see here in chapter 12 the bride of Christ in purity, spiritual Jerusalem, the Church of God, and in chapter 17 Satan's bride, spiritual Babylon earthly and sensual.
Therefore we can conclude that a pure woman is a pure Church and an impure woman is an impure Church. Here in chapter 12 is represented God's Church....
Revelation 12:6 “And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she has a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.”
Wilderness - Greek eremos, “a forsaken, desert, empty place,” “an uninhabited place.” Here eremos doubtless represents a place of seclusion or obscurity, an area or condition in which the church would be in a place of obscurity, away from the public gaze. See notes on Revelation 17:3.
A place - This place is referred to in verse 14 as “her place.” The idea is that the protection and sanctuary in obscurity here found by the woman were divinely appointed and prepared.
They - The subject is indefinite and doubtless refers to the various agencies God employed to preserve, strengthen, and build up the church during the time when she was severely persecuted.
Feed - Greek trepho, “to make to grow,” “to bring up,” “to rear,” “to nourish.” Trepho is rendered “nourished” in verse 14. God cares for His own. Even though the church is persecuted and driven into exile the Lord nourishes it.
1260 Days - This period of 1260 days is referred to seven times in the books of Daniel and Revelation. It appears as 1260 days in Revelation 11:3 and 12:6, as 42 months in Revelation 11:2 and 13:5, and as 3 1/2 times in Daniel 7:25, 12:7 and Revelation 12:14. Most date this period from A.D. 538 to A.D. 1798. During this period God's hand was over the church preserving it from extinction....http://www.revelationbibleprophecy.org/revelation12.html
"A woman - God's people, which is His Church, are likened unto a comely and delicate woman of virgin purity, or uncorrupted, in the Bible. (Jeremiah 6:2; Isaiah 51:16; 54:5-6; 2 Corinthians 11:2; Ephesians 5:23-27, 31-32)
This woman, clothed with the heavenly bodies that God created to give light to the earth, (Genesis 1:14-17) (just as God said of His believers that they are the light of the world. Matthew 5:14) is in striking contrast to the woman of chapter 17, who is clothed and adorned with earthly things and has corrupted her purity in being a harlot.
There is no doubt that this woman is a representation of the True Church of God, for it is this woman that brings forth/gives birth to the man child, Jesus, and is persecuted after His ascension, verses 2, 4-6.
In the Old Testament we are introduced to 2 women, from whence these symbols are derived, the one representing Babylon, (Isaiah 47:1) and the other Jerusalem. (Jeremiah 6:2) Once again we see here in chapter 12 the bride of Christ in purity, spiritual Jerusalem, the Church of God, and in chapter 17 Satan's bride, spiritual Babylon earthly and sensual.
Therefore we can conclude that a pure woman is a pure Church and an impure woman is an impure Church. Here in chapter 12 is represented God's Church....
Revelation 12:6 “And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she has a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.”
Wilderness - Greek eremos, “a forsaken, desert, empty place,” “an uninhabited place.” Here eremos doubtless represents a place of seclusion or obscurity, an area or condition in which the church would be in a place of obscurity, away from the public gaze. See notes on Revelation 17:3.
A place - This place is referred to in verse 14 as “her place.” The idea is that the protection and sanctuary in obscurity here found by the woman were divinely appointed and prepared.
They - The subject is indefinite and doubtless refers to the various agencies God employed to preserve, strengthen, and build up the church during the time when she was severely persecuted.
Feed - Greek trepho, “to make to grow,” “to bring up,” “to rear,” “to nourish.” Trepho is rendered “nourished” in verse 14. God cares for His own. Even though the church is persecuted and driven into exile the Lord nourishes it.
1260 Days - This period of 1260 days is referred to seven times in the books of Daniel and Revelation. It appears as 1260 days in Revelation 11:3 and 12:6, as 42 months in Revelation 11:2 and 13:5, and as 3 1/2 times in Daniel 7:25, 12:7 and Revelation 12:14. Most date this period from A.D. 538 to A.D. 1798. During this period God's hand was over the church preserving it from extinction....http://www.revelationbibleprophecy.org/revelation12.html
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