The first horseman of the Apocalypse

[Timtofly]

The door of the ark will not be shut until the 144,000 are sealed, and the 144,000 are identified in verse 9 (Revelation 7:9). Here's who the twelve tribes are:

1. The exile and scattering of the house of Israel - the 10 tribes - took place from circa 725 BC, and has continued since then, and since then, the descendants of the 10 tribes of the house of Israel who became scattered among the nations, have intermarried with Gentiles and have become amalgamated with the Gentile nations - to the point where it's impossible to find the genetic descendants of the house of Israel (the 10 tribes) and positively identify them anywhere among the nations anymore. They are a completely mixed multitude now.

The 10 tribes were frequently collectively called Ephraim in Old Testament prophetic scripture talking to and about them (for example Isaiah 7:8).

2. On his death-bed, Jacob told Joseph that the descendants of Ephraim - of the 10 northern tribes - would become the fullness of the Gentiles (as it's written in the Hebrew of Genesis 48:19). The only other place in the Bible where the term fullness of the Gentiles is found, is in Romans 11:25.

3. The prophecy Paul quoted in Romans 9:24-26 is from Hosea 1:9-10, and in its Old Testament biblical context, it's referring only to the house of Israel - the 10 tribes. It's not referring to the Jews (the house of Judah), and it's not referring to the Gentiles in its context. Paul quotes it, and includes Gentiles who believe in Jesus in it.

4. Paul again includes Gentiles who believe in Jesus in Israel in Romans 11:17.

The Gentiles who believe in Jesus are included into the 12 tribes of Israel, regardless of our genetic ancestry.

Revelation 15
8 And the temple was filled with smoke from the glory of God, and from His authority. And no one was able to enter into the temple until the seven plagues of the seven angels were completed.

The church was glorified at the 5th and 6th Seal. Are you claiming these 144k were sealed during the 4th Seal?

Yes the 7th Seal opened the book and now names will start to disappear from the Lamb's book of life. The glorified church is safe. The 144k, separate from the church are safe. The 144k are not glorified. They are the sealed firstfruits of the Millennium kingdom. They are the camp of the saints in Revelation 20. We do not know if they find brides and have offspring.

 

[Timtofly]

Jesus Christ Warned His Followers, Concerning Him Being On This Earth In A Millennium (Beware)

Many claim Jesus will literally return and rule "On This Earth" In A Millennium this being false in deception

Jesus warned his followers against this teaching, Jesus wont be found anywhere upon this earth as many claim

The Antichrist will be in Jerusalem, claiming to be Messiah Returned, "Beware"!

"Believe It Not" "Go Not Forth"

Matthew 24:23-27KJV
23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
25 Behold, I have told you before.
26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Revelation 13:13-14KJV
13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.

Revelation 19:20KJV
20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

So only during the Millennium, we are not to look for Christ?

What about the last 1991 years?

 

[Timtofly]

Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

The great tribulation is so obviously and ridiculously clearly for 42 months, 3.5 years.

That’s how long the mark is given, during the great tribulation.

Do the Trumpets and Thunders sound during this 42 months while Satan rules from Jerusalem? Does Satan take over at the 7th Seal?

 

[Timtofly]

And the great white throne comes how long after Satan has been destroyed in the LoF?

And Satan is destroyed in the LoF how long after the beast and the false prophet (who are already there when Satan is destroyed in it)?

And the second death at the time of the Great White Throne occurs how long after those who had been beheaded for their testimony to Jesus and their refusal to worship the beast and its image begin to reign with Christ?

And does the seond death have power over those who had been beheaded for their testimony to Jesus and their refusal to worship the beast and its image once they are living and reigning with Christ?

"And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them."

This is not an indication the GWT suddenly appears.

This points out the GWT is the only created item left in current reality. The throne existed from the beginning of creation. There was never a point when God was not on the throne. Except the moment on the Cross. God did not vacate creation during the Cross. God Himself was the Atonement, not a split trinity observing the Atonement.

The point amil stress is that the Second Coming is the same event heaven and earth pass away.

It cannot be, because even Jesus in the OD, does not claim reality ceases. In the OD, it is pointed out that all the angels come to earth. There are no more stars in the sky. This event does happen in a fiery display according to Peter in 2 Peter 3. However Peter points out after this event we still wait for the NHNE. If it all happens at the same singular moment, why would Peter point out:

"Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness."

Even after the Second Coming we are still looking for the NHNE. But then most ignore the Second Coming as happening before the Trumpets. They fail to see that at Armageddon no human is even left to harvest souls from. The harvest is not about the dead. It is about the living. There will not be billions at Armageddon, and all 7 billion are killed in an hour.

Some need to be practical and see the harvest and Second Coming happen before Satan is given 42 months, that end at Armageddon. Billions are not going to choose beheading. Those beheaded are the gleanings. Not the entire harvest.

Those who think the church lives in bunkers during the final harvest are missing the whole point of the final harvest. The church is taken out alive first. Then the lost sheep of Israel who missed being part of the glorified church. Then the wheat and tares. Billions of souls harvested before Satan's 42 months. Putting Billions at the very last Second does not make sense. It is as bad as putting the whole Millennium in that last Second.

 

[Timtofly]

When symbolism runs amok you wind up with Timtofly's eisegesis of the 144,000.

You have a problem with a plain reading of the text? No symbolism necessary.

 

[Truth7t7]

So only during the Millennium, we are not to look for Christ?

What about the last 1991 years?

Believe It Not, Go Not Forth

Your teaching that Jesus will sit upon this earth in a temple is in error, Jesus wont be found anywhere upon this earth, it will be the antichrist in Jerusalem

 

[Timtofly]

The Son of Man has already come, and the nations have already been separated:

John 12
31 Now is the judgment of this world. Now shall the prince of this world be cast out.
32 And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, I will draw all to Myself.
33 But He said this, signifying what kind of death He was about to die.

Revelation 12
9 And the great dragon was cast out, the old serpent called Devil, and Satan, who deceives the whole world. He was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
10 And I heard a great voice saying in Heaven, Now has come the salvation and power and the kingdom of our God, and the authority of His Christ. For the accuser of our brothers is cast down, who accused them before our God day and night.
11 And they overcame him because of the blood of the Lamb, and because of the word of their testimony. And they did not love their soul to the death.

John 3
18 He who believes on Him is not condemned, but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only-begotten Son of God.

John 3:18 is also the decreed sentence for a world that has already been judged and found guilty - the decreed sentence which will be carried out at the time of the Great White Throne:

Revelation 20
15 And if anyone was not found having been written in the Book of Life, he was cast into the Lake of Fire.

Are you an Amillennialist claiming the Millennium is here and now?

 

[Timtofly]

Oh I see, so the simple and plain meaning of what is written has to be changed to a simple and plain meaning which contradicts the simple and plain meaning of the scripture.

I see.

There are plenty of plain reading portions of Revelation that do not need any symbolism applied to them. Start turning all these plain reading thoughts into symbolism and the mind clamps shut on the symbolism itself. Especially if you make up your own symbolism that may or may not be rooted in Ancient Greek thought, or Hebrew for that matter.

 

[Timtofly]

Satan is "Currently" bound from "One Specific Purpose", And One Only?

"Deceive The Nations" To Battle

The Non-Literal 1,000 Years (Revelation) 20:1-6 Are Taking Place Now In The Lords Spiritual, And Will Cease At The Future Second Coming

If A Tribulation Saint Were To Die One Day Before The Second Coming, He Enters Into The Non-Literal 1,000 Year Reign

Many That Promote Millennialism Falsely Teach, Satan Cant Be Presently Bound Because Evil Exist In The World?

Satan Is Presently Bound As Is Clearly Seen In (Revelation) 20:7-8 Below That Interprets (Deceive The Nations) Is To Battle, Not General Evil In The World Presently.

Satan Is Loosed At The End Of The Tribulation When The 6th Vial Is Poured Out As Seen In (Revelation) 16:12, The Deception Is Devils In False Miracles Going Forth To The Kings Of The Earth, To Gather Them To The Final Battle

(Revelation) 20:1-9KJV
1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

(Revelation) 16:12-14 & (Revelation) 20:7-8 Same Deception In Gathering The Nations To The Very Same Final Battle In "Parallel" Teachings Of The Same Event

(Revelation) 16:12-17KJV
12 And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared.
13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.
14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.
15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.
16 And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.
17 And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.

So then the beast and false prophet at one time existed, but are now in the Lake of Fire.

Soon they will come out of the Lake of Fire, and decieve the nations to battle?

When were they originally cast into the Lake of Fire? Before the Flood, after the Flood, before Abraham, after Abraham? Before the Cross, after the Cross?

 

[Timtofly]

Believe It Not, Go Not Forth

Your teaching that Jesus will sit upon this earth in a temple is in error, Jesus wont be found anywhere upon this earth, it will be the antichrist in Jerusalem

"When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:"

Is this in heaven?

Satan takes over the throne of Jesus Christ in heaven?

 

[Timtofly]

They will live and reign with Jesus in his spiritual realm of one day is a thousand years, waiting for the last day resurrection, just as all believers that have died will be waiting for

So a thousand years in Paradise, but not on earth where time ceases to exist until the final resurrection?

 

[Truth7t7]

So then the beast and false prophet at one time existed, but are now in the Lake of Fire.

Soon they will come out of the Lake of Fire, and decieve the nations to battle?

When were they originally cast into the Lake of Fire? Before the Flood, after the Flood, before Abraham, after Abraham? Before the Cross, after the Cross?

Your claims are chaos in misrepresentation

The beast, and false prophet are judged to the lake of fire at the second coming last day

At no time have I stated otherwise as you claim

 

[Truth7t7]

"When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:"

Is this in heaven?

Satan takes over the throne of Jesus Christ in heaven?

Matthew 25:31-46 Sheep/Goats is nothing more than a "Parable" of the great white throne judgement seen in Revelation 20:11-15

Yes Matthew 25:46 below shows the "Final Judgement" as the righteous obtain eternal life, and the wicked everlasting punishment

Matthew25:46KJV
46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

 

[Truth7t7]

So a thousand years in Paradise, but not on earth where time ceases to exist until the final resurrection?

Yes all that die in the Lord enter the eternal realm, where one day is a thousand years in the Lords eternal spiritual, just as (The Souls) and (The Dead) seen in Revelation 20:4-6

Yes all that have died in Christ awaits the (First Resurrection) on the last day, at the second coming

Yes you have been shown several times that two resurrection take place on this last day

(First) The Righteous To Eternal Life, Blessed

(Second) The Wicked To The Lake Of Fire, The Second Death

 

[Zao is life]

So with God, this genetic event is impossible. Are you glad that God can pull off the impossible and Seal 12,000 virgin males from those 12 tribes by name? God even knows each name of the 144k. It is not a randomn toss of the dice. Each angel knows whom they are sealing.

OK we'll leave it at I think I know but what I think I know is not necessarily true, although for now I think I know.

 

[Zao is life]

So with God, this genetic event is impossible. Are you glad that God can pull off the impossible and Seal 12,000 virgin males from those 12 tribes by name? God even knows each name of the 144k. It is not a randomn toss of the dice. Each angel knows whom they are sealing.

It's not a genetic event. I keep saying so, but you keep missing it. The Gentiles who believe in Jesus are not genetically descended from the 10 tribes (although some may be without even knowing it, but that's besides the point). God does not care about genetic ancestry. He can regard the Gentile believers as the house of Israel. We do not have to be genetic descendants.

 

[Truth7t7]

OK we'll leave it at I think I know but what I think I know is not necessarily true, although for now I think I know.

In Love

Scripture strongly suggest that the 144,000 the remnant will be localized to Jerusalem, and ethnic to the location Israel

Below you see the future fulfilling of the gentiles and desolation, armies from the worlds nations sea to sea

Below you see the Remnant being fed in the wilderness, manna from heaven, as in the days of old coming out of Egypt, the world watches in fear of the Lords power

Revelation 12:6KJV
6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

Micah 7:10-18KJV
10 Then she that is mine enemy shall see it, and shame shall cover her which said unto me, Where is the Lord thy God? mine eyes shall behold her: now shall she be trodden down as the mire of the streets.
11 In the day that thy walls are to be built, in that day shall the decree be far removed.
12 In that day also he shall come even to thee from Assyria, and from the fortified cities, and from the fortress even to the river, and from sea to sea, and from mountain to mountain.
13 Notwithstanding the land shall be desolate because of them that dwell therein, for the fruit of their doings.
14 Feed thy people with thy rod, the flock of thine heritage, which dwell solitarily in the wood, in the midst of Carmel: let them feed in Bashan and Gilead, as in the days of old.
15 According to the days of thy coming out of the land of Egypt will I shew unto him marvellous things.
16 The nations shall see and be confounded at all their might: they shall lay their hand upon their mouth, their ears shall be deaf.
17 They shall lick the dust like a serpent, they shall move out of their holes like worms of the earth: they shall be afraid of the Lord our God, and shall fear because of thee.
18 Who is a God like unto thee, that pardoneth iniquity, and passeth by the transgression of the remnant of his heritage? he retaineth not his anger for ever, because he delighteth in mercy.

 

[Timtofly]

Your claims are chaos in misrepresentation

The beast, and false prophet are judged to the lake of fire at the second coming last day

At no time have I stated otherwise as you claim

Accept Satan is bound that same day. When is Satan loosed?

You claim the day before the Second Coming.

That is putting the cart before the horse. That only worked in the Volkswagen.

 

[Timtofly]

Matthew 25:31-46 Sheep/Goats is nothing more than a "Parable" of the great white throne judgement seen in Revelation 20:11-15

Yes Matthew 25:46 below shows the "Final Judgement" as the righteous obtain eternal life, and the wicked everlasting punishment

Matthew25:46KJV
46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

The GWT is not the one in Matthew 25. When did God vacate the GWT, and move it into Jerusalem and shrunk it down to fit?

At least keep your parables realistic and to the point.

 

[Truth7t7]

Accept Satan is bound that same day. When is Satan loosed?

You claim the day before the Second Coming.

That is putting the cart before the horse. That only worked in the Volkswagen.

My Response will cease at this point, your chaos in eschatology Is unbearable for response, way outside the boundaries for orthodoxy, unheard of

Jesus Is The Lord