The founding fathers of modern-day Premillennialism were heretics.

[covenantee]

Of course you want a Yes or No answer to an irrelevant question that presumes a Yes answer substantiates your claims. But I won't give you the satisfaction because the question does not resolve the problem. A Yes or No answer will not address the underlying matter.

As I said, categories have to do with context--not the basic meaning of the word. The earth is a synonym for land. You can see that in Strong's on down.

HERE
Strong's Concordance
gé: the earth, land...
NAS Exhaustive Concordance
Word Origin
a prim. word
Definition
the earth, land
NASB Translation
country (2), earth (165), earthly (1), ground (20), land (46), soil (16).

The category you refer to includes applications of the word earth/land to a more universal sense. Again, this does *not* settle the problem of viewing the earth as "land everywhere" compared to "the totality of the planet." Either people everywhere experience some measure of divine judgment, or the entire planet is annihilated.

Again, the Scriptures indicate the earth is "forever." God did not create the world only to annihilate it, having to start all over again with a new set of 6 days. Rather, He recreates the old world into a new form, taking jurisdiction away from satanic rebels and giving it properly to His Son, to rule. This is the essence of a new creation--a reworking of the earth, as opposed to complete destruction and starting over again.

The category of Thayer's applying earth/land to a universal application does not settle the issue of planet vs. common experience.

4. the earth as a whole, the world (Latinterrarumorbis);

a. the earth as opposed to the heavens: Matthew 5:18, 35; Matthew 6:10; Matthew 16:19; Matthew 18:18; Matthew 24:35; Mark 13:31; Luke 2:14; John 12:32; Acts 2:19; Acts 4:24; 2 Peter 3:5, 7, 10, 13; Revelation 21:1; τά ἐπί τῆς γῆς the things and beings that are on the earth, Ephesians 1:10; Colossians 1:16 (T WH omit; L Tr brackets τά); involving a suggestion of mutability, frailty, infirmity, alike in thought and in action, Matthew 6:19; τά ἐπί τῆς γῆς (equivalent to τά ἐπίγεια, Philippians 3:19) terrestrial goods, pleasures, honors, Colossians 3:2 (opposed to τά ἄνω); τά μέλη ὑμῶν τά ἐπί τῆς γῆς the members of your earthly body, as it were the abode and instruments of corrupt desires, Colossians 3:5; ὁ ὤν ἐκ τῆς γῆς ... λαλεῖ (in contrast with Christ as having come from heaven) he who is of earthly (human) origin, has an earthly nature, and speaks as his earthly origin and nature prompt, John 3:31.

Thanks for your "yes".

 

[WPM]

I've answered this question from you for years now! People on the Millennial Earth will initially be made to submit to a Christian-led world, probably dominated by Christian nations. Non-Christian nations will no longer be driven by Satan to want to overthrow the international order. People will still have a Sin Nature, and they will still have access to Christian redemption.

Having a Sin Nature does not guarantee untold horrors taking place internationally and within each nation. It doesn't always do that even today. There have been nations with relative justice and peace at least for a time at various periods in their history. There is no need to view the existence of the Sin Nature as a necessary explosion of evil. Apparently, it only explodes in great measure only at the end of the Millennial era, when Satan is released once again to deceive the nations.

If indeed I've told you this a number of times over the years, I don't expect you will be moved by it. So I say this only for others who may read. They will see the obvious flaw in your characterization of the Millennium, as Premills like myself see it.

Where do you get all this? It certainly not the Bible. This portrayal is a total bust. It presents Christ as totally failing in His righteous rule on earth and the millennial inhabitants as the greatest company of religious phonies ever to live.

 

[L.A.M.B.]

No one can answer with a yes, you are right, Paul. You have been answered so many times by numerous ppl. You dont want the Lord's answer unless its in agreement with you!

Who INDOCTRINATED you, what teacher or denoms? Are you a Gnostic or an atheist?

Anything outside the word of God is worthless.
God is TRUTH and let all men be liars!
If what you believe is NOT backed up in the word then you do not know how spiritual is compared to spiritual.

Many ppl have studied the word, many more claim a belief in God. Yet few walk the walk they talk.

It's like a merry- go- round,or chasing your tail. It's dizzying, throws you off balance and you'll never get anywhere.

 

[WPM]

No one can answer with a yes, you are right, Paul. You have been answered so many times by numerous ppl. You dont want the Lord's answer unless its in agreement with you!

Who INDOCTRINATED you, what teacher or denoms? Are you a Gnostic or an atheist?

Anything outside the word of God is worthless.
God is TRUTH and let all men be liars!
If what you believe is NOT backed up in the word then you do not know how spiritual is compared to spiritual.

Many ppl have studied the word, many more claim a belief in God. Yet few walk the walk they talk.

It's like a merry- go- round,or chasing your tail. It's dizzying, throws you off balance and you'll never get anywhere.

This is totally out of order! This should not be allowed on a Christian forum. You have had nothing of any biblical content or historic value to bring to any of these discussion only vicious ad-hominem. This is a disgrace.

 

[Randy Kluth]

Not so! Where do the billions of wicked come from who rebel against Christ as the sand of the sea and overrun your supposed future millennium? Are they the resurrected righteous?

Follow the history of Israel. They began by pledging, as a nation, to serve the Lord alone. They illustrated their Sin Nature and their human weakness by failing each step along the way, and yet persevered to become God's nation in the land of Canaan. They overcame their enemies and made God their Lord, even though their weaknesses and sins persisted.

It was only later that the nation completely capitulated to apostasy, surrendering to polytheism and idolatry. God called it spiritual "adultery" at that point, and vowed to end the nation, if only for a set period of punishment.

So as you should be able to see, the "wicked" state of Israel began more benign with a *potential* for mass lawlessness. It will be the same in the Millennium. The potential for large-scale rebellion will be there, but will see the floodgates opened when Satan is released to encourage this.

 

[WPM]

Follow the history of Israel. They began by pledging, as a nation, to serve the Lord alone. They illustrated their Sin Nature and their human weakness by failing each step along the way, and yet persevered to become God's nation in the land of Canaan. They overcame their enemies and made God their Lord, even though their weaknesses and sins persisted.

It was only later that the nation completely capitulated to apostasy, surrendering to polytheism and idolatry. God called it spiritual "adultery" at that point, and vowed to end the nation, if only for a set period of punishment.

So as you should be able to see, the "wicked" state of Israel began more benign with a *potential* for mass lawlessness. It will be the same in the Millennium. The potential for large-scale rebellion will be there, but will see the floodgates opened when Satan is released to encourage this.

Hold on: in your theology, this is supposed to be a glorious victorious unchallenged reign of Christ with a rod of iron over the nations in perfect submission to Him. Of course, this is not not in the Bible. It is a Premil invention. But this whole false portrayal is exposed by a complete overthrow of righteousness when billions of millennial inhabitants turn to Satan their master for succor. Billions of sinners who became sinless as soon as they entered this future millennium suddenly become the grossest and most foolish bunch of sinners ever to live as they en-mass become Satan worshipers as soon as 1,000 years is up.

 

[Truth7t7]

No one can answer with a yes, you are right, Paul. You have been answered so many times by numerous ppl. You dont want the Lord's answer unless its in agreement with you!

Who INDOCTRINATED you, what teacher or denoms? Are you a Gnostic or an atheist?

Anything outside the word of God is worthless.
God is TRUTH and let all men be liars!
If what you believe is NOT backed up in the word then you do not know how spiritual is compared to spiritual.

Many ppl have studied the word, many more claim a belief in God. Yet few walk the walk they talk.

It's like a merry- go- round,or chasing your tail. It's dizzying, throws you off balance and you'll never get anywhere.

A Big "Off Topic" Non response in a left field "Personal Attack"

I have yet to see "The Lord's Answer" as you claim, Pre-Millennialism is a fabricated man made fairy tale, found no place in scripture (Fact)

Jesus returns in fire and final judgement, dissolving this earth by fire (The End)

Jesus Is The Lord

 

[Truth7t7]

We know from Scriptures that the 1st resurrection of the saints will take place at Christ's return. I call that a "glorification event."

So when the apostles and other Christian leaders are glorified, they will rule over a mortal earth, perhaps from heaven. They will come to earth, together with Christ, to impose Christian liberty at the start of the Millennium.

But thereafter, the glorified saints may reign from heaven, in the spirit, for 1000 years. After that, the New Jerusalem will descend from heaven and become part of the final glorification event, when the Millennial saints also become immortal.

When Jesus Christ Returns (Then Cometh The End) Read It Again And Again!

There are (Two) resurrections on this (Last Day) the righteous are blessed to be in the (First Resurrection) to eternal life, on such the (Second Death) resurrection has no power.

1.) (First Resurrection) To Life
2.) (Second Death) Resurrection To Damnation

Revelation 20:6KJV
Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

The (Last Day) Resurrection Of All Below

John 5:28-29KJV
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

John 6:39-40KJV
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

1 Corinthians 15:21-24KJV
21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

The (Last Day) Judgement

John 12:48KJV
48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

 

[Truth7t7]

I've answered this question from you for years now! People on the Millennial Earth will initially be made to submit to a Christian-led world, probably dominated by Christian nations. Non-Christian nations will no longer be driven by Satan to want to overthrow the international order. People will still have a Sin Nature, and they will still have access to Christian redemption.

Having a Sin Nature does not guarantee untold horrors taking place internationally and within each nation. It doesn't always do that even today. There have been nations with relative justice and peace at least for a time at various periods in their history. There is no need to view the existence of the Sin Nature as a necessary explosion of evil. Apparently, it only explodes in great measure only at the end of the Millennial era, when Satan is released once again to deceive the nations.

If indeed I've told you this a number of times over the years, I don't expect you will be moved by it. So I say this only for others who may read. They will see the obvious flaw in your characterization of the Millennium, as Premills like myself see it.

Randy the only flaw seen, is your teaching and beliefs regarding a Millennial Kingdom on this earth, it's like a Sci-Fi imaginary story

Saints glorified to a heaven ruling humans on this earth, "Clash Of The Titans", Zeus the Almighty!

Your descriptive presentation is a pipe dream fairy tale, found no place in scripture

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Too simple, obvious, literal and straightforward for Premils to accept. To do so would force them to abandon their cherished beliefs.

Right. When we show how our Amil beliefs are actually based on literal, straightforward scripture such as 2 Peter 3:10-13, they go silent. They often accuse us of spiritualizing everything, but that is far from the truth.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I've answered this question from you for years now! People on the Millennial Earth will initially be made to submit to a Christian-led world, probably dominated by Christian nations. Non-Christian nations will no longer be driven by Satan to want to overthrow the international order. People will still have a Sin Nature, and they will still have access to Christian redemption.

Having a Sin Nature does not guarantee untold horrors taking place internationally and within each nation. It doesn't always do that even today. There have been nations with relative justice and peace at least for a time at various periods in their history. There is no need to view the existence of the Sin Nature as a necessary explosion of evil. Apparently, it only explodes in great measure only at the end of the Millennial era, when Satan is released once again to deceive the nations.

If indeed I've told you this a number of times over the years, I don't expect you will be moved by it. So I say this only for others who may read. They will see the obvious flaw in your characterization of the Millennium, as Premills like myself see it.

In your view how do so many mortals survive the return of Christ keeping in mind that He will be destroying all those "who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of Jesus Christ" on that day (2 Thess 1:7-10)? I believe you are post-trib, right? So, that would mean you agree that believers will all be changed and have immortal bodies at that point. So, I'm not sure what you think will qualify an unbeliever to not be among those described in 2 Thess 1:8.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Do you believe in a literal "New Earth," or are you a Gnostic Dualist who views the material world as evil, and only non-material spiritual things as good?

I believe the earth's surface will be completely burned up, as Peter taught in 2 Peter 3:10-12, and it will be renewed by God, resulting in "the new earth".

While you're quite right that the Jews expected a Kingdom at a time they *did not deserve it, ignoring their sins,* the promise of a Jewish Restoration is nevertheless an important part of the OT Prophets.

The NT shines light on the OT. I wonder why it is that the NT says nothing about this "Jewish Restoration" that you believe in? I feel certain that there would be something in the NT about that if that was going to happen, but there's nothing.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

It may shock Premillennialists to know that the views they hold and promote today were sourced and spread in antiquity chiefly among heretics. When we look for the originators and formulators of modern-day Premillennialism we actually arrive at four shadowy early figures. The first two operated at the very infancy of early church history – Cerinthus of Asia Minor (50-100 AD) and Marcion of Sinope, Asia Minor (Born: 85 AD, Died: 160 AD). Both of these were viewed as arch-heretics and were strongly resisted by the early Church fathers for their corrupt perversion of Christianity. They invented a dual-covenant concept of two parallel yet coexisting peoples of God, under two different agreements, serving two different gods, with two different time-tables and two different ultimate outcomes. This was seasoned throughout with Gnostic elements.

The later advocates of ancient Premillennialism who ran with, and widely promoted, it were Porphyry [or Porphyrius] of Tyre (232- 305) and Apollinarius of Laodicea, Asia Minor (died 382). They took up the baton were Cerinthus and Marcion left off. Not surprisingly, these two unorthodox writers were condemned by the ancient orthodox fathers as heretics and blasphemers.

It is a sad indictment on Premillennialism that the genesis of the doctrine within Christendom can only be found in the ancient writings of these gross heretics.

What set these 4 men apart from the orthodox Chiliasts was obviously not their opinion of the idea of a future millennial earth, no, it was their elevation of the nation Israel in a future millennium, their two-peoples-of-God-theory (including a clear discontinuity between Israel and the Church), their advocacy for the renewal of all the old covenant feasts and festivals, a return of blood sin offerings in a future temple (whether real or memorial) and their support for the restarting of the old covenant priesthood on a future millennial earth.

While these are beliefs that are widely held within Premillennialist circles today, they were unknown to the early orthodox Church Chiliasts. Along with the reintroduction of all the bondage of corruption on a future earth (including sin, death and decay) and the rising up of Satan after 1000 to influence billions of millennial inhabitants against Christ and the glorified saints, this advocacy for the return of all the old covenant apparatus is probably the most unsavory aspect of modern Premillennialism.

Well I can't speak for these men you wriote of, though I will search them out and their writins. I would appreciate the lionks you sourced them from.

but I take my premillenial (which means Jesus physicall returns to establish teh 1,000 year kingdom), Based on Scripture as written and not "mystically or spiritually redefined".

The OT writes extensively of teh physical kingdom on earth.

How th eplanet will look.
How people work and live.
How long someone has tro receive Christ after being born in the kingdom.
the sacrifical system in the temple in Jerusalem.
The government of Jews and Gentiles.
The temple
and many other qualities of life on earth during the 1,000 years those beheaded for refusing the mark co-reign with Jesus, and Satan is abyssed, thus reducing temptations.

The two people of God is a lie concocted by covanentalists. IN the millenial kingdom on earth, there is only th erighteous. they are saved but not part of the body of Christ which began at Pentecost and ends at teh rapture. We will be in heaven as jesus declared Not on physical earth. But the distinction between teh church and all teh saved is just about the millenial kingdom. How eternity is structured, no one knows.

That is if you take the Word of God literally and do not feel teh need to redefine it.

BTW modern day covanental theology (the counter of millenial dispensationalism) was popularized by Augustine as the Pre-Catholic he was., If memory serves, He was quite the heretic as well.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

The "thousand years" of Revelation 20 is about Christ's future 'MILLENNIAL' Kingdom reign with His faithful elect. It is pointed to in many Old Testament and New Testament Scriptures.

Other than Revelation 20, what New Testament scriptures do you believe refer to this supposed future millennial kingdom?

 

[Ronald Nolette]

It may shock Premillennialists to know that the views they hold and promote today were sourced and spread in antiquity chiefly among heretics. When we look for the originators and formulators of modern-day Premillennialism we actually arrive at four shadowy early figures. The first two operated at the very infancy of early church history – Cerinthus of Asia Minor (50-100 AD) and Marcion of Sinope, Asia Minor (Born: 85 AD, Died: 160 AD). Both of these were viewed as arch-heretics and were strongly resisted by the early Church fathers for their corrupt perversion of Christianity. They invented a dual-covenant concept of two parallel yet coexisting peoples of God, under two different agreements, serving two different gods, with two different time-tables and two different ultimate outcomes. This was seasoned throughout with Gnostic elements.

The later advocates of ancient Premillennialism who ran with, and widely promoted, it were Porphyry [or Porphyrius] of Tyre (232- 305) and Apollinarius of Laodicea, Asia Minor (died 382). They took up the baton were Cerinthus and Marcion left off. Not surprisingly, these two unorthodox writers were condemned by the ancient orthodox fathers as heretics and blasphemers.

Well I will look up these guys. If you could provide the links you used tro declare the stuff you wrote, I would appreciate it.

but I draw my premillennial (Jesus returning to rule on earth for 1,000 years) based on a plain simple literasl read of the plain words of SCripture.

There is 2 covenantsa! The Old and in Jeremiah 31- the new covenant God will make with Israel! That is simple enough.

As for the two people of God, that is simply a distinction the Bible makes concerning the millenial kingdom here on earth!

The church will be in heaven as Jesus declared. The rest of the saved (OT saints and post church believers) will be on earth!
After teh 1,000 years when "eternity begins" (though it never ended) we simply do not know what structure will be in the new heavens and earth.

But the OT is filled with descriptions of how the millenial will look. How it will be governed, How people farm and build. How they also live and die! People do not die in heaven, but the 1,000 year kingdom on earth the bible clearly says they do.

BTW the amillenial view was popularized by Augustine- who was quite the heretic himself.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

The later advocates of ancient Premillennialism who ran with, and widely promoted, it were Porphyry [or Porphyrius] of Tyre (232- 305)

As he wasn't A Christian but opposed Christians this is a lie! Unbelievers cannot be heretics.

 

[WPM]

Well I will look up these guys. If you could provide the links you used tro declare the stuff you wrote, I would appreciate it.

but I draw my premillennial (Jesus returning to rule on earth for 1,000 years) based on a plain simple literasl read of the plain words of SCripture.

There is 2 covenantsa! The Old and in Jeremiah 31- the new covenant God will make with Israel! That is simple enough.

As for the two people of God, that is simply a distinction the Bible makes concerning the millenial kingdom here on earth!

The church will be in heaven as Jesus declared. The rest of the saved (OT saints and post church believers) will be on earth!
After teh 1,000 years when "eternity begins" (though it never ended) we simply do not know what structure will be in the new heavens and earth.

But the OT is filled with descriptions of how the millenial will look. How it will be governed, How people farm and build. How they also live and die! People do not die in heaven, but the 1,000 year kingdom on earth the bible clearly says they do.

BTW the amillenial view was popularized by Augustine- who was quite the heretic himself.

I have detailed the references for anyone who wishes to dig.

The Amillenial view was popular long before Augustine, and what is your evidence he was "quite the heretic himself"?

 

[WPM]

As he wasn't A Christian but opposed Christians this is a lie! Unbelievers cannot be heretics.

Where do Premils get their info? Heretics are "unbelievers."

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Apollinarius of Laodicea,

His big calim to fame is his fierce opposition to Arianism which is being carried over by the JW's! They also are basic amils like you!

 

[WPM]

His big calim to fame is his fierce opposition to Arianism which is being carried over by the JW's! They also are basic amils like you!

Where is your evidence? You come across as a wikipedia historian.