The Godhead, Diversified Oneness

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101G

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Hi 101. I agree that we must be open to learn. I think that going into something bullheadedly believing in it's truth just because we were raised believing something can be foolish.
But having said that...just because I was raised believing in the Trinity, does not mean that my belief in it is wrong! There are very good scriptural evidences for the Trinity and a lot of the biblical exegesis has been done for a lot of years by people a lot smarter than I. And I'm afraid in my conversation with you, I will not be able to do those evidences justice. But I am happy to engage anyway and do my best.




I suppose this verse can be readily applied either way! Yes...to the truth. Which ever it may be. Glory to God in the end.


Man, I've always hated homework!
But actually, before we get to the the Greek (which I'm not great at), can I step back and just look at the passages that speak of Christ being at the right hand of God? Because in the English, it actually seems that the position of 'power' is the thrown itself, and Jesus has the place next to it. It's a place of honor. Consider these verses:


[64] Jesus said to him, “You have said so. But I tell you, from now on you will see the Son of Man seated at the right hand of Power and coming on the clouds of heaven.” - Matthew 26:64


A Psalm of David.

[1] The LORD says to my Lord:
Sit at my right hand,
until I make your enemies your footstool.
” - Psalm 110:1

And then in 1 Kings 2:19 and Psalm 45:9 we have other examples of how being sat at the right hand of power is a place of honor. Yes, that is also a place of power, but the power comes from the one on the throne, the one who is handing the honor on.
We see in 1 Corinthians 15 that the Father has given authority to Christ and that at the end of time Jesus will hand that authority back to God the Father:

For “God has put all things in subjection under his feet.” But when it says, “all things are put in subjection,” it is plain that he is excepted who put all things in subjection under him. When all things are subjected to him, then the Son himself will also be subjected to him who put all things in subjection under him, that God may be all in all. - 1 Corinthians 15:27-28

Not only do we see a distinct weaving together of a separate relationship between the two: Father and Son, but we see the roles. The Father is upon the Throne, and the Son is at his right hand, glorified and honored, but ultimate power and authority belongs to the Father. In this way, all members of the Godhead can be worshiped completely. All glory can be given to Christ for what he did, but that glory is also the Fathers, who gave his Son up.

My point is, I don't think we can just say "at his right hand" means Christ is seated in power. Well...yes. But....
It's the 'but' that gives it more depth. It is a place of power, but it's also a place of honor. Both honor and power are given. Hence the 'at the right hand' reference. If Christ were the Father, and all power and authority were just his, he wouldn't need to reference any sort of 'right hand' to let us know these things about himself. He could simply say, "he sat on his throne". But that Throne is for The Father. And the right hand is for The Son. Two distinct places...two distinct reasons.



Anthropomorphism: the attribution of human characteristics or behaviour to a god, animal, or object.

Nope. Sorry. Can't see how this has anything to do with anything!
GINOLJC, to Naomi25, first thanks for the reply. second, U said, "Man, I've always hated homework!",..... lol, lol, lol... ok, I can respect that.. (smile). since U hate home work we'll work together to get the understanding of what Anthropomorphism is in relation to our God.
let's start from the end first. U said, "Can't see how this has anything to do with anything!".
#1. our Lord Jesus is a sitting high priest, right. what do a sitting priest represent? answer his work is finish, Hebrews 7:27 "Who needeth not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people's: for this he did once, when he offered up himself". but as comforter he sits in power by "HIS" Spirit, whom he is GLORIFIED. now let's look at this power, using an Anthropomorphism concering God, our Lord Jesus who is the "POWER" of God, (see 1 cor 1:24). what is this saying about the Lord Jesus?, is not the Holy Spirit, as some say is the Power of God. well let's see what is meant here about the arm of God. ARM of God signify "POWER". let's see this used in scripture using this Anthropomorphism.

the king of judah was invaded by the kings of Assyria, 2 Chronicles 32:7 "Be strong and courageous, be not afraid nor dismayed for the king of Assyria, nor for all the multitude that is with him: for there be more with us than with him: 8 With him is an arm of flesh; but with us is the LORD our God to help us, and to fight our battles. And the people rested themselves upon the words of Hezekiah king of Judah". what was this "arm" of flesh? king Sennacherib of Assyria, his ARMY. a nation military is it's power to fight. and this army is the king's "ARM" in battle. it's the instrument through which the king accomplish his objective. well the Lord Jesus is God OWN ARM to bring salvation, scripture, Isaiah 63:5 "And I looked, and there was none to help; and I wondered that there was none to uphold: therefore mine own arm brought salvation unto me; and my fury, it upheld me". understand now an Anthropomorphism?.

next we will look at this "subjection under his feet" understanding.
 

KBCid

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U answered nothing in your second post. and as for gods with power, U might be a god.... (smile), me, I a son of God. now a couple of things about your gods thing. you quote Psalms 82:6 "I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High". but you forgot the very next verse. 7 "But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes".

Then you did not look close enough. There is a difference between God and god. The first is eternal with no equal and the second is created.
And no there was no forgetting of anything, every created god can die such as angels and even the mankind type gods, Christ died right? and God the father cannot die since he is only spirit, thus, Christ the first born god of the Father gave his life to show us that we too could follow in his very footsteps and be reunited with him at the resurrection.

Egypt had gods, as well as other nations including Israel, 1 Chronicles 16:26 "For all the gods of the people are idols: but the LORD made the heavens".

Jeremiah 16:20 Shall a man make gods unto himself, and they are no gods?
Indeed only God the father can make a god.

is this what you are, rmember Deuteronomy 32:39a "See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me". if no god with him then how are you with him.

I am what I was made to be and again there is a difference when the words are correctly translated;
Deuteronomy 32:39 "See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no God with me"

no Psalms 82:6 and what our Lord quoted was concering judges and magistrates, so that won't fly.

Believe as you wish. I am simply answering the question. We were created in the image of God which makes us gods since we can only be as close as a created thing can be to that which was not created and has no beginning. That which has a beginning can have an end. the eternal cannot end.
 

101G

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I will let Christ say it for me;
John 10:35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken; 36Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?

The Son of God is the first god formed. You should also study Hebrew and what meaning there is for the first born son of any father.

I want to ZERO in on "The Son of God is the first god formed. You should also study Hebrew and what meaning there is for the first born son of any father". I'm glad you let the lord answer, but get the correct understanding. Son here is not biological, but Spiritual. listen, "Son" G5207 huios, my source Vine's Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words. primarily signifies the relation of offspring to parent (See John 9:18-John 9:20; Gal 4:30. It is often used metaphorically of prominent moral characteristics. (c) descendants, without reference to sex, Rom 9:27 (f) those who act in a certain way, whether evil, Matt 23:31, or good, Gal 3:7; (g) those who manifest a certain character, whether evil, Acts 13:10; Eph 2:2, or good, Luke 6:35; Acts 4:36; Rom 8:14; (h) the destiny that corresponds with the character, whether evil, Matt 23:15; John 17:12; 2Thess 2:3, or good, Luke 20:36; (i) the dignity of the relationship with God whereinto men are brought by the Holy Spirit when they believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, Rom 8:19; Gal 3:26. ... I suggest you read the rest of the definition. and also I suggest you learn or ascertain some Greek definitions.
now,
Exodus 7:1 And the LORD said unto Moses, See, I have made thee a god to Pharaoh: and Aaron thy brother shall be thy prophet.
MAKE Moses a god, I couldn't believe you used that, God gave Moses a commission, a charge OVER Pharaoh, and his brother Aaron (who will be high priest) his prop[het, or MOUTH PIECE. you really don't know the scriptures do you.

now please give us that scripture that states that our Lorde was "formed" a god. still waiting.
 

101G

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Then you did not look close enough. There is a difference between God and god. The first is eternal with no equal and the second is created.
And no there was no forgetting of anything, every created god can die such as angels and even the mankind type gods, Christ died right? and God the father cannot die since he is only spirit, thus, Christ the first born god of the Father gave his life to show us that we too could follow in his very footsteps and be reunited with him at the resurrection.




Jeremiah 16:20 Shall a man make gods unto himself, and they are no gods?
Indeed only God the father can make a god.



I am what I was made to be and again there is a difference when the words are correctly translated;
Deuteronomy 32:39 "See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no God with me"



Believe as you wish. I am simply answering the question. We were created in the image of God which makes us gods since we can only be as close as a created thing can be to that which was not created and has no beginning. That which has a beginning can have an end. the eternal cannot end.

MAN is the IMAGE of God in "ANOTHER" of himself. not everyone is in his IMAGE as sons of his. now this statement you made, "Christ died right? and God the father cannot die since he is only spirit, thus, Christ the first born god of the Father gave his life to show us that we too could follow in his very footsteps and be reunited with him".
Let's address this question. "Christ died right". the question should be died from what LIFE? answer NATURAL life that he took on. see there are two DEATHS. Natural death, the first death. the last death, or the second death is in the Lake of fire. Revelation 21:8 "But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death".

so when christ died, he died a NATURAL death, for the "LIFE" of all flesh is in the blood, (see Lev 17:11 & 14). so that refute that error.
 

101G

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to KBCid, I would like to put an end to you notion that Christ is some god.
A. you never answered the Phil 2:6 question, that's strike 1
B. you have not provided a scripture for the Lord Jesus being "formed" as a god. that's strike #2. don't let it be a third.

but to be fair in this discussion. I'll ask you one more question, if you can answer it then the discussion can continue. scripture, 1 Timothy 6:13-16 "I give thee charge in the sight of God, who quickeneth all things, and before Christ Jesus, who before Pontius Pilate witnessed a good confession; 14 That thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukeable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ: 15 Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords; verse 16 "Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen". now I'm about seeking out PERSON(S). if verse 16 is true, "Who only hath immortality" then where do that leave the one whom you calls Father?. please answer.
 

101G

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it's getting a little late, we'll pick this up tommorrow, and I'll be taking the offense some. but first I'll answer our sister question concering the "subjection under his feet" understanding. be blessed.
 

Naomi25

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GINOLJC, to Naomi25, first thanks for the reply. second, U said, "Man, I've always hated homework!",..... lol, lol, lol... ok, I can respect that.. (smile). since U hate home work we'll work together to get the understanding of what Anthropomorphism is in relation to our God.
let's start from the end first. U said, "Can't see how this has anything to do with anything!".
#1. our Lord Jesus is a sitting high priest, right. what do a sitting priest represent? answer his work is finish, Hebrews 7:27 "Who needeth not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people's: for this he did once, when he offered up himself". but as comforter he sits in power by "HIS" Spirit, whom he is GLORIFIED. now let's look at this power, using an Anthropomorphism concering God, our Lord Jesus who is the "POWER" of God, (see 1 cor 1:24). what is this saying about the Lord Jesus?, is not the Holy Spirit, as some say is the Power of God. well let's see what is meant here about the arm of God. ARM of God signify "POWER". let's see this used in scripture using this Anthropomorphism.

the king of judah was invaded by the kings of Assyria, 2 Chronicles 32:7 "Be strong and courageous, be not afraid nor dismayed for the king of Assyria, nor for all the multitude that is with him: for there be more with us than with him: 8 With him is an arm of flesh; but with us is the LORD our God to help us, and to fight our battles. And the people rested themselves upon the words of Hezekiah king of Judah". what was this "arm" of flesh? king Sennacherib of Assyria, his ARMY. a nation military is it's power to fight. and this army is the king's "ARM" in battle. it's the instrument through which the king accomplish his objective. well the Lord Jesus is God OWN ARM to bring salvation, scripture, Isaiah 63:5 "And I looked, and there was none to help; and I wondered that there was none to uphold: therefore mine own arm brought salvation unto me; and my fury, it upheld me". understand now an Anthropomorphism?.

next we will look at this "subjection under his feet" understanding.

Look, I don't mean to be rude, but I don't understand what your saying. I can't see how Heb 7:27 comes into, or how that can possibly fit into your idea about anthropomorphism. You say 'spirit' and 'his arm' etc...but yes...that's what scripture says...because it's talking about 'The Spirit' or 'God's arm' (his might). I can't see how that possibly distinguishes between the 3 persons? And I'm just not following your train of thought, try as I might, sorry.
 

101G

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GINOLJC, to Naomi25, first I thank my God for your reply. second, there is nothing that you can say or do to be rude unto me. I don't take things personal, nor am I offended by anything. I'm FREE in Christ Jesus, so I'm not subject to these earthly amenities of men. now to the meat of your reply.

You say 'spirit' and 'his arm' etc...but yes...that's what scripture says...because it's talking about 'The Spirit' or 'God's arm' (his might). I can't see how that possibly distinguishes between the 3 persons? And I'm just not following your train of thought, try as I might, sorry.
Understand, God is a Spirit, (ONE), when diversified (TWO). that's the definition of G243 allos, a numerical difference, but the SAME NATURE, follow so far. God who is Spirit have no "ARM(S)" (an upper limb of the human body, connecting the hand and wrist to the shoulder) per say, he's from our point of view "abstract". that's why we use the term Anthropomorphism. listen to what the scriptures say Isaiah 63:5 "And I looked, and there was none to help; and I wondered that there was none to uphold: therefore mine own arm brought salvation unto me; and my fury, it upheld me. God's own ARM, the ARM "OF" GOD. did you see it? if not here is the revelation. knowing that God is abstract he had to manifested himself in a way to accomplish his "objective" in the earth or natural realm. he did this by obtaining a natural body which is "concrete" in the natural realm. understand the meaning of the prepositions "of" as in Arm "of" God. which means, the preposition itself translates the genitive case of nouns, with various shades of meaning. Of these are the subjective and objective. understand the Spirit/God is subjective, meaning he's abstract. the Lord Jesus is objective, meaning he's concrete. the Lord Jesus is the objective/concrete power of God manifested in bodily form to do his will. see of "translates" the genitive case of nouns. genitive means: relating to or denoting a case of nouns and pronouns (and words in grammatical agreement with them) indicating possession or close association.
example as in "MY" OWN ARM. my is a possession, example my Father, is not positional, but (possession)al, meaning possessive. that's why one need to study Possessive Pronouns. here's a link to a good table to study, just scroll down to complete table, English personal pronouns - Wikipedia
study the Plural section, remember God is a plurality of himself that is to come. he who "which is", Genesis 1:1, "which was", John1:1, and he who "which is to come", Revelation 1:1.
 

101G

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I personally don't believe the Godhead can be separated
GINOLJC, your 100% correct. this is what divides diversified oneness from other beliefs. separation of person(s) vs the one "shared" person in another nature. that's the only sticking point. we're saying the same thing but going at it in two different ways. for example, in the book of Isaiah chapter 6 he saw a vision of what most people say is "yahweh" or God the father. but in John chapter 12:14, John is clearly speaking of the Lord Jesus who Isaiah saw. it's the same person. it can't be the father in Isaiah chapter 6, and mysteriously change into the Son in John chapter 12. no, it's speaking of the same person, only in diversity. another verse clearly shows the diversity of God, vs the separation of person(s). the Lord Jesus in Revelation chapter 4 & 5. many say the one who sits on the throne is the Father, ERROR, it's the Son. and in chapter 5 he who sits is he who stands as the LAMB glorified in the FATHER. there are many misunderstood verses like this throughout the bible. but one of the clearest misunderstood verses in the bible on the Godhead is in the book of acts which put an end to the three persons doctrine completely.
 
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KBCid

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Son here is not biological, but Spiritual.

Son is the same whether strictly spiritual or the hybrid of spiritual / physical since the creation is intended to reflect the spiritual.

now, MAKE Moses a god, I couldn't believe you used that, God gave Moses a commission, a charge OVER Pharaoh, and his brother Aaron (who will be high priest) his prop[het, or MOUTH PIECE. you really don't know the scriptures do you.

God made Moses a god to pharaoh by granting his creation (Moses) power that he did not normally have. God the father is so understood because he holds the greatest power of all and then there is a descending hierarchy of power according to his design.

now please give us that scripture that states that our Lorde was "formed" a god. still waiting.

First, God can and did form beings as gods from the beginning. Even satan is called the god of this world because he was a god created by the Father. Christ "the bright and morning star" was simply the first of the beings to come from the father. So all intelligent beings created by God the father are what would be considered lesser gods since their powers were never the equivalent of their maker.

1 Cor 8:5 For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,) 6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

Here is God's hidden mystery from the beginning;

Proverbs 8:22The LORD possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old. 23I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was. 24When there were no depths, I was brought forth; when there were no fountains abounding with water. 25Before the mountains were settled, before the hills was I brought forth: 26While as yet he had not made the earth, nor the fields, nor the highest part of the dust of the world.

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was god. 2 The same was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

Christ is the hidden wisdom of God that was a mystery until his mission was finished.

1 Corinthians 2:7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, the hidden wisdom which God ordained before the ages for our glory, 8 which none of the rulers of this age knew; for had they known, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

Colossians 2:2 That their hearts might be comforted, being knit together in love, and unto all riches of the full assurance of understanding, to the acknowledgement of the mystery of God, and of the Father, and of Christ; 3 In whom are hid all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.

God endowed his first born with wisdom like himself which makes it easy for Christ to be one in purpose with the father. If you gain the spirit of truth you too would have access to wisdom you would not normally have.
 

101G

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Son is the same whether strictly spiritual or the hybrid of spiritual / physical since the creation is intended to reflect the spiritual.
so you're a "son" of the devil then?. I suggest you look up G5207, huios
God made Moses a god to pharaoh by granting his creation (Moses) power that he did not normally have. God the father is so understood because he holds the greatest power of all and then there is a descending hierarchy of power according to his design.
So I guess God made Sampson a god to destroy the philistines. not happening, or any of the saviours he sent? well I guess God made Deborah a goddess. THAT WON'T FLY EITHER.
1 Cor 8:5 For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,) 6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
1 Corinthians 8:4 "As concerning therefore the eating of those things that are offered in sacrifice unto idols, we know that an idol is nothing in the world, and that there is none other God but one". that took care of anyone being a god.... (smile).
Christ is the hidden wisdom of God that was a mystery until his mission was finished.
if Christ is God wisdom, why you called Christ a god?. 2 I ask you is wisdom here abstract or concrete... (smile).
also the Lord Jesus who is the wisdom of God, he is also the Power "of" God, meaning he's God almighty. since you cannot answer my other question put forth to you, do you want to try your hand at the Lord Jesus being the Holy Spirit, God Almighty?. is so put your scriptures on the table and we will examine them.

see Christ, the Lord JESUS/YESHUA is no mystery to me. .... (smile).
 

KBCid

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KBCid said: Son is the same whether strictly spiritual or the hybrid of spiritual / physical since the creation is intended to reflect the spiritual.

so you're a "son" of the devil then?. I suggest you look up G5207, huios

Your answer has nothing to do with what you quoted me on...

So I guess God made Sampson a god to destroy the philistines. not happening, or any of the saviours he sent? well I guess God made Deborah a goddess. THAT WON'T FLY EITHER.

We are all god's, the only question is what your level of power is in the Fathers design and who's son you more closely resemble which is becoming more apparent as your answers become more eratic.

KBCid said: 1 Cor 8:5 For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,) 6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

1 Corinthians 8:4 "As concerning therefore the eating of those things that are offered in sacrifice unto idols, we know that an idol is nothing in the world, and that there is none other God but one". that took care of anyone being a god.... (smile).

The quote of 1 Cor 8:5-6 says absolutely nothing about idols does it? So again your answer is no answer at all.

if Christ is God wisdom, why you called Christ a god?. 2 I ask you is wisdom here abstract or concrete... (smile).also the Lord Jesus who is the wisdom of God, he is also the Power "of" God, meaning he's God almighty. since you cannot answer my other question put forth to you, do you want to try your hand at the Lord Jesus being the Holy Spirit, God Almighty?. is so put your scriptures on the table and we will examine them. see Christ, the Lord JESUS/YESHUA is no mystery to me. .... (smile).

Because all of God's created intelligent beings are gods as is plainly stated in John 10 since, only intelligent beings could have the "word of God come to them" then you have not refuted anything since scripture cannot be broken no matter how much you dislike its meaning;

psalm 82:6I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.
John 10:34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, You are gods? 35 If he called them gods, to whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken; 36 Say you of him, whom the Father has sanctified, and sent into the world, You blaspheme; because I said, I am the Son of God?

So if these are your best replies then you really have nothing to offer on these subjects.
 

101G

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to KBCid, stop the rambling, and vain babblings and give some "hard" evidence" of the Godhead. let's not tit for tat ok, let's get to the meat, like the Revelation 1:1 test, and the 1:4-5 test.

this test shut mouths quickly. KBCid, will you please tell us who is it that sent "his" angel to John according to revelation 1:1. was it the one whom you calls the Father or the one whom you call the Son. but remember Rev 22:6, read it first before you give your answer. I'll be waiting. thanks in advance.
 

101G

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GINOLJC to all.

The First and the Last, the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End, the Aleph and the Tav. THE TITLES OF GOD ALMIGHTY.

Genesis 1:1 "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth”. the word God here is H430 אֱלֹהִים 'elohiym (el-o-heem'), which is a plurality. in the very first verse of the bible God tells us that he is ANOTHER of himself, a numerical difference. some say he’s three persons. but is this so. let’s examine this scripture closely and see if this is true. in the original Hebrew of this verse (Gen 1:1) there are two “letters” that are not translated. they are אֵ ת reading right to left, the Aleph and the Tav. in English, translated as the First and the Last. so God the CREATOR is the First and the Last, can this be supported in the OT, yes. we will look at three verses that identifies God as the first and the last who is CREATOR.
#1. Isaiah 41:4 "Who hath wrought and done it, calling the generations from the beginning? I the LORD, the first, and with the last; I am he.” here God, the CREATOR if one say that this is the Father, states that he (I) single designation says he’s the “FIRST” WITH the “LAST”. hold that thought, seem like two.

#2. Isaiah 44:6 "Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God”. here God, the CREATOR the one who most calls the Father says he’s the “FIRST” and he’s the “LAST”. notice the conjunction “AND”. remember in the above scripture he’s the first “WITH” the last. here he’s the first “AND” the last. hold that thought.

#3. Isaiah 48:12 "Hearken unto me, O Jacob and Israel, my called; I am he; I am the first, I also am the last”. here God, the CREATOR whom some say is the Father is the “FIRST” and ALSO the “LAST”. this sounds just like this is two entities, but the indication is “I” singular. how can this be one person in a plurality.

ok revelation time. in the Greek there is the word I been using G243 allos, but there is another Greek word that is used as “ANOTHER” which is opposite of G243. here are both for examination and one will now see a revelation. I’m using the Vine's Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words as my source. G243, G2087 ,allos and heteros have a difference in meaning, which despite a tendency to be lost, is to be observed in numerous passages. Allos expresses a numerical difference and denotes another of the same sort; heteros expresses a qualitative difference and denotes another of a different sort. did one see the revelation? if not the Lord Jesus is the same in quality of the SAME SORT, but a numerical difference in quantity. what do this mean? a first, and a last. but is this not two separate persons? NO, let’s give a crude example. if one had a German chocolate cake and gave a slice to another person is this the SAME German chocolate cake? YES but now only in less quantity, it have a quantity difference, but not a quality difference. this just answer another question concerning the Godhead, the GREATER THAN question. Greater in quality, or quantity. the cake have the SAME ingredient (quality), but not the SAME in volume (quantity). hence the scriptures are true, Philippians 2:6-8 "Who, being in the form of God (quality) thought it not robbery to be equal with God: 7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant,(quantity), and was made in the likeness of men: 8"And being found in fashion as a man, (quantity), he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross".

conclusion: the First is the EQUAL share in Spirit, and the Spirit is only one PERSON. so the First and the Last is the SAME PERSON in a plurality of ONE SELF, meaning the SHARE of himsel. and this one PERSON who is the First and the Last is the Lord Jesus. Revelation 22:13 "I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.”
 

101G

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GINOLJC to all. since none of the question that I have asked so far have been answered, today I will take the offense in answering the 3 persons misconception of the Godhead.

Today I will challenge your minds, NOT YOUR HEARTS, but your minds to think about what you have been taught. we believe that it's ONLY, ONLY one PERSON in the Godhead who "shared" himself in flesh and blood. but we will zero in on "only" one person. the reason why I ask for a "TEST" concering the scripture, NOT YOU, to see if what one believes in the scriptures are TRUE. what one believes in scriptures will stand up in any test. the Godly (acid test) is itself the word of God itself. is the word of God "Gold", or just some fake imitation Gospel. and here is that test, "THE WORD OF GOD NEVER CONTRADICT ITSELF ANYWHERE IN SCRIPTURE. Isaiah 28:10 "For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little". the verse states "MUST" be upon precept. and a precept is a general rule intended to regulate behavior or thought. now, if that GENERAL RULE is broken somewhere in scripture then it's NOT TRUE. let's examine the persons according to this general RULE, and if it's scripture, then nowhere is it found to be broken. let's get to it.

#1. 1 Timothy 6:13-16 "I give thee charge in the sight of God, who quickeneth all things, and before Christ Jesus, who before Pontius Pilate witnessed a good confession; 14 That thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukeable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ: 15 Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords; verse 16 "Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen". I'm asking about PERSON(S). if verse 16 is true, (and it is), question, "Who is the only one that hath immortality" answer the LORD JESUS. the term "ONLY" means, nothing more besides; solely or exclusively. and exclusively means to the exclusion of others. now if one have a first person, and a second, and a third person, then God have no exclusion of others. if one say they have God the Father, and God the Son, and they also say that they are separate, then they have two Gods. some say the bible never say God the Son. ERROR on their part. scripture, Hebrews 1:8 "But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom". the son is called God, and the definite article is used here. now if the Son is a separate person, "who is God with the definite article" then one have two Gods, plain and simple. and one know what that is, "polytheism". so then the LINE is broken, meaning that it's not three persons.

1 Timothy 6:13-16 clearly tells us that there is "ONLY" ONE PERSON who have immortality and that's the Lord Jesus. if true, (and it is), precept must be upon precept, so where do that leave the one whom most calls THE Father, the FIRST PERSON?.... well.understand, if the Lord Jesus is the Second Person and separate from the Father, and he's the "only" one with immortality, then something is wrong here. either the scriptures are in ERROR or one's doctrine is in ERROR. since I'm a betting man "in" the word of God ONLY, I'm putting my spiritual money on the scriptures. now, anyone can answer this precept. but remember precept must be upon precept; line upon line, line upon line. thanks for your time. and may God, the Lord Jesus open your eyes to the knowledge that's in Christ Jesus. as the apostle said, "not all men have this knowledge".

Next the book of Acts. "ONLY" one
 

101G

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GINOLJC to all. THE BOOK OF ACTS, THE TAKEAWAY OF 3 PERSONS.
some might be offended, but I'm of the notion, "it's better to be offended than to be ashame with a reproach". like, it's better to obey than to sacrifice". with that said, unto the meat.
Act chapter 9 tells us what happen to the apostle Paul, then Saul. let's pick up the account in verse 3 "And as he journeyed, he came near Damascus: and suddenly there shined round about him a light from heaven: 4 And he fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? 5 And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks. 6 And he trembling and astonished said, Lord, what wilt thou have me to do? And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the city, and it shall be told thee what thou must do". ok now let's see what happen to him in the city, but moverover what the Lord told a disciple concering him. verse 15 "But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel". now many here says that it was God the Father who "choose" Paul for his son. ok, lets see. because there is another account of this same event in Acts chapter 22:11-14 "And when I could not see for the glory of that light, being led by the hand of them that were with me, I came into Damascus. 12 And one Ananias, a devout man according to the law, having a good report of all the Jews which dwelt there, 13 Came unto me, and stood, and said unto me, Brother Saul, receive thy sight. And the same hour I looked up upon him. 14 And he said, The God of our fathers hath chosen thee, that thou shouldest know his will, and see that Just One, and shouldest hear the voice of his mouth". THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT, Ananias said, "The GOD of our fathers hath {Chosen} thee". I have but the words our fathers and chosen in bold and brackets for a reason. remember this. because right here many said, see, the God of our fathers is the one whom most say is God the Father, whom some call Yahweh, the God of the OT. so that proves that it was the God of the OT (our father) and that proves that the God of the OT is not the Lord JESUS, case closed? not hardly. because there is yet another account of the same of the same event when the apostle Paul was before king Agrippa, before he appeal to Caesar. let's pick up the account at Acts 26:14-16 "And when we were all fallen to the earth, I heard a voice speaking unto me, and saying in the Hebrew tongue, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks. 15 And I said, Who art thou, Lord? And he said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest. 16 But rise, and stand upon thy feet: for I have appeared unto thee for this purpose, to make thee a minister and a witness both of these things which thou hast seen, and of those things in the which I will appear unto thee".
HOLD IT, STOP THE PRESS. did one see it? if not here is the revelation. remember in Acts 22:14 I said that this is important, listen, 14 "And he said, The God of our fathers hath chosen thee, that thou shouldest know his will, and see that Just One, and shouldest hear the voice of his mouth". notice the word "chosen" here it is the Greek word, G4400 προχειρίζομαι procheirizomai (pro-chei-riy'-zo-mai) v.
1. to handle for oneself in advance.
2. (figuratively) to purpose.
KJV: choose, make
SEE HOW THE KJV TRANSLATE THIS WORD. "chosen", now the revelation, in chapter 26 VERSE 16 "But rise, and stand upon thy feet: for I have appeared unto thee for this purpose, to make thee a minister and a witness both of these things which thou hast seen, and of those things in the which I will appear unto thee". the Greek word "to make" is the SAME Greek word to chose in Chapter 22. G4400 προχειρίζομαι procheirizomai (pro-chei-riy'-zo-mai). and here's the KICKER, this one Greek word is found no where else in the bible. so there is no excuse that it's used in context some other way. so all those who said that it's the Father who chosed Paul on the Road to Damascus, YES you're right, it's just that the FATHER IS THE LORD JESUS DIVERSIFIED.

what a Revelation. without any doubt this destroys any notion of any three persons in the Godhead. that's if you believe the bible instead of man.

Conclusion: the Lord Jesus is the FATHER, without flesh, without bone, and without blood. now resurrected without blood, GLORIFIED in the Spirit, who is the FATHER. the prophet Isaiah was totally correct, Isaiah 9:6 "For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace". yes that "son", that "child" is the MIGHTY GOD, the EVERLASTING FATHER". and the apostle Paul agrees "the only one with "immortality". because "everlasting" is immortality. this is called Isaiah 28:10 "For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little".
 
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101G

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GINOLJC, to all. to finish answering DPMartin questions, he stated,

Abraham the father Isaac the son who was offered on the alter, and Jacob renamed Israel of which the Jews are the children of hence born of. the Father Son and Holy Spirit of which the Children of God are born of.

what special info in your "oneness" doctrine do you have that doesn't say that is true?
first, it's "Diversified" oneness, not oneness, ok. 2nd, No special info, just bible, scripture, Romans 9:3 "For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh: 4 Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises; 5 Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen. 6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel: 7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called. 8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed".

so to answer your question, being born again or the PROMISE is to be born by the Lord Jesus himself who is God almighty the Spirit, scripture, Isaiah 35:4 "Say to them that are of a fearful heart, Be strong, fear not: behold, your God will come with vengeance, even God with a recompence; he will come and save you". who came and saved us DPMartin. now I suggest before you answer you should read Isa 45:21; Isa 49:26 and Isa 43:11. now tell us who came and save us. see, no special info, just bible.
 

101G

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Let's take diversified oneness a step further. another one of the sticking points in PERSON(S) are the titles of Father and Son. let's address these "TITLES". I'm going straight to the point. when the Son say my Father he is speaking of Possession. when the Son say “my Father”, he’s saying “my Spirit”. as we say “my Car” ownership. when the Father say, "my son" the same thing is being applied "OWNERSHIP", when the Father say "my Son", he's saying "my body, which is flesh and bones), ownership.

question, "HOW IS THIS SO?" good question, scripture, Philippians 2:6 "Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God". EQUAL "WITH", meaning the same. ownership of Spirit and Body is the SAME.
 

101G

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A golden nugget in diversified oneness. the Lord Jesus in the OT without flesh, without bone, and without blood. scripture, 1 Corinthians 10:1 "Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; 2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea; 3 And did all eat the same spiritual meat; 4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ". STOP, wait a minute I thought God the Father was the ROCK in the O.T. well lets see. Deuteronomy 32:3 "Because I will publish the name of the LORD: ascribe ye greatness unto our God. 4 He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he". the apostle Paul just said in 1 Corinthians 10:4 that the rock that followed them was Christ. question, "do we have 2 Christs? no. but this is the SAME PERSON, according to the apostle. so the one who followed them in the O.T. is the same one who MANIFESTED in Flesh in the NEW testament. Hmmmmmmm..... God is the ROCK, but it's the Lord Jesus/Yeshua who is in the O.T.
 

101G

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And then in 1 Kings 2:19 and Psalm 45:9 we have other examples of how being sat at the right hand of power is a place of honor. Yes, that is also a place of power, but the power comes from the one on the throne, the one who is handing the honor on.
We see in 1 Corinthians 15 that the Father has given authority to Christ and that at the end of time Jesus will hand that authority back to God the Father:

For “God has put all things in subjection under his feet.” But when it says, “all things are put in subjection,” it is plain that he is excepted who put all things in subjection under him. When all things are subjected to him, then the Son himself will also be subjected to him who put all things in subjection under him, that God may be all in all. - 1 Corinthians 15:27-28
to Naomi25, thank you for asking the. 1 Corinthians 15:27-28 "be subject question". first thanks for the post. this will help in understanding the diversity of God in flesh as the other/another of himself, the Image of God, man. I'm sure you're familiar with the verses. but I believe what you're not familiar with is the WORD "subject" itself. remember I said that revelation is progressive, here is another important piece of diversified oneness. let the Holy Spirit teach.

SUBJECT: G5293 ὑποτάσσω hupotasso (hoop-ot-as'-so) v. According to Noah Webster's 1828 Dictionary of American English. the Greek word here, G5293 ὑποτάσσω hupotasso, this word is used as a verb, and not a noun. (that will alert one quickly). as a verb one can quickly see, or understand what subject means here in context. to understand the KJV, one needs an old English dictionary. the definition,
a. put within, b. will. Let’s look at both and understand this revelation. according to the second definition of subject in the Noah Webster's 1828 Dictionary as a verb, it means 2. To put under or within the power of. (there is our revelation, “within” the power of). Let’s back this up with our second understanding of G5293 ὑποτάσσω hupotasso (hoop-ot-as'-so) as a verb which means 1. to subordinate
2. (reflexively) to obey
KJV: be under obedience (obedient), put under, subdue unto, (be, make) subject (to, unto), be (put) in subjection (to, under), submit self-unto.
please notice, the KJV can translate subject, G5293 ὑποτάσσω hupotasso, as be under obedience, which bring us to our second understanding. Let’s see this in scripture, Matthew 26:42 " He went away again the second time, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if this cup may not pass away from me, except I drink it, thy will be done”. now here is the revelation. the Lord Jesus is God “OWN” arm. scripture, Isaiah 63:5 " And I looked, and there was none to help; and I wondered that there was none to uphold: therefore mine own arm brought salvation unto me; and my fury, it upheld me”. so being his “OWN” arm, and (NOT A SEPARATE ARM) it is through, or “within” the agency of the Lord Jesus Christ that his, (GOD), OWN “will” be done, hence the obedience. this is proven out in the definition of G5293 ὑποτάσσω hupotasso itself. the definition also states from G5259 and G5021, let’s see what G5259 ὑπό hupo
(hoop-oh') states,
1.under
2.(with the genitive case) of place (beneath), or with verbs (the agency or means, through)
3.(with the accusative case) of place (whither (underneath) or where (below) or time (when (at)) In the comparative, it retains the same general applications, especially of inferior position or condition, and specially, covertly or moderately.
KJV: among, by, from, in, of, under, with
examine definition #2 above carefully, it said, when used with a verb. there is our conformation, the agency or means,“through”. and “through” is synonyms with “WITHIN”. so when G5259 is used in VERB form, meaning with a verb as in “BE” subject as here in 1 Corinthians 15:27-28 then it is understood to be used as the “agency or means, through”. other words Isaiah 63:5 is totally correct and on point when God said, " And I looked, and there was none to help; and I wondered that there was none to uphold: therefore mine own arm brought salvation unto me; and my fury, it upheld me”. the power is in, or within God's “own” arm, which the Lord Jesus the diversity, or the another of himself is, “God’s own arm. that’s all that is needed to understand 1 Corinthians 15:27-28, the Holy Spirit, (the Revelator) and an old English dictionary like the Noah Webster's 1828 Dictionary. see how the Holy Spirit will enable us, or give us the ability to root out words and their meaning in order to understand the old English language used at that time when the bible was written. the key here is to understand the verb that precedes the word "Subject" boy, wasn't that easy. when used with a verb made all the difference in the way subject is to be understood.