The Godhead, Diversified Oneness

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101G

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I am not sure I understand
GINOLJC, first I thank my God the Lord Jesus for your response. I read your response, twice. I believe what’s the assessment here is nature vs relationship. believe me I understand what you’re saying. let me say this first, is this the SAME? “I and my Father are One” and “Philippians 2:6 "Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God”. are these two statement the SAME? NO. but I do understand you, for the NATURE of God is the RELATIONSHIP, meaning LOVE. but we’re discussing the ontological nature of God which is a particular theory about the nature of being (not relationship) or the kinds of things that have existence. this nature is dealing with abstract entities, (Persons) that the difference. the bottom line is, as you have said, God is Love, and how he expressed that Love is the topic. the 3 person in one NATURE is not a relationship, nor one person. I agree with you,.. is this worth arguing over ………… no, let me say that again, NO. but reproof is in the doctrines and not the belief. we all believe in One God, but not on person(s). our doctrine dictate our beliefs, and in the long run affect our faith. and without FAITH one cannot please God. so what’s the divide?, proper worship, and proper worship comes from knowledge and understanding of the Scriptures. listen, Hebrews 11:6 "But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him”. VictoryinJesus how many persons is “he” and “him”……. I’ll let you be the Judge of that, take note the scripture did not say, "But without faith it is impossible to please THEM". but, still some still don’t know and understand that the Lord Jesus is the God of the OT Spirit. see many take away God glory by saying God created everything through the son. that’s an ERROR, but if one is without knowledge, the fruit of their lips will speak lies. see the point, scripture, Hosea 4:6 "My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children”. now if you believe ignorantly you will worship ignorantly, hence the reason for Hosea 4:6. have you ever wonder, I believe but it seems like I’m not getting anywhere???. I put 3 question mark there.... now re-assess Hebrews 11:6. Jesus is the only true God, that’s the relationship. and what is that relationship, let the bible tell us, Philippians 3:10 "That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death". for “he” holds the 3 titles “Father”, “Son”, and “Holy Spirit” in the three dispensation or Administration of God. once one knows this then they can worship properly. because they will know.

now if you want to discover the ontological nature of God, I don’t mind.
 

101G

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GINOLJC. many who do not understand diversified Oneness, we concentrate on the "PERSON". in a recent conversation, in the topic "Did Jesus say he was God", a poster made this statement,
The Lord and Savior formed the visible bodies called the flesh of man. The chosen flesh of man named prophets and saints were used by our Father in Heaven to write and speak for Him.
. YES, Lord and Savior formed the visible bodies called the flesh of man. but he, God, the INVISIBLE one manifested in one of what he FORMED. and the scripture is clear. Romans 5:14 "Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come". as we said, we focus on the "person". and in this scriptures, it tells us of the PERSON who came. most bible student miss the meaning of this word completely. it is the Greek word, G5179 τύπος tupos (tï '-pos) n.
1. a die (as struck).
2. (by implication) a stamp or scar.
3. (by analogy) a shape, i.e. a statue.
4. (figuratively) style or resemblance.
5. (specially) a sampler (“type”), i.e. a model (for imitation) or instance (for warning).
KJV: en-(ex-)ample, fashion, figure, form, manner, pattern, print

see how the KJV can translate the word, and that's where many stop at. but notice definition #2, (by implication) a stamp or scar.
do this word "stamp" means anything. if not it caught my attention from the express image in Hebrews 1:3 "Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high".
here in Hebrews 1:3 "express" image not just image, but express image is the Greek word, G5481 χαρακτήρ charakter (cha-rak-teer') n.
1. an engraver (the tool or the person).
2. (by implication) an engraving.
3. (hence) a “character,” the figure stamped.
4. (by extension) an exact copy.
5. (figuratively) a representation.
[from charasso “to sharpen to a point” (akin to G1125 through the idea of scratching)]
KJV: express image
notice definition #3. The "figure" stamped". but what is the figure that was stamped? answer the character as defined in definition #3. now a BIG question, what do character mean? answer, according to Vine's Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words "character" is defined as "SON". listen to the definition,
G5207, huios primarily signifies the relation of offspring to parent (See John 9:18-John 9:20; Gal 4:30. THIS IS A NATURAL SON MEANING. now listen. It is often used metaphorically of prominent moral characteristics (See below). It is used in the NT of (a) male offspring, Gal 4:30; (b) legitimate, as opposed to illegitimate offspring, Heb 12:8; (c) descendants, without reference to sex, Rom 9:27; (d) friends attending a wedding, Matt 9:15; (e) those who enjoy certain privileges, Acts 3:25; (f) those who act in a certain way, whether evil, Matt 23:31, or good, Gal 3:7; (g) those who manifest a certain character, whether evil, Acts 13:10; Eph 2:2, or good, Luke 6:35; Acts 4:36; Rom 8:14;

did one get definition (g) those who manifest a certain character that's why the title "Son" is given. the Son of God is the "character" or the "PERSON" of God. that's why the Jew got mad , listen, John 10:33 "The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God". see the Son of God is God. lets back this up. when our Lord was before Pilate, the Jews said this, John 19:7 "The Jews answered him, We have a law, and by our law he ought to die, because he made himself the Son of God". when did he make that statement?, John 5:18 "Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God". EQUAL, just like Philippians 2:6 states, "Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God". it's the same ONE PERSON only Shared in flesh.

conclusion: Ontologically speaking the Lord Jesus is God. now if anyone thinks different, 1 John 4:3 "And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world". and one more, 1 John 2:22 "Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son".

clear and cut, John 20:28 "And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God". Lord is the LORD diversified in flesh, Psalms 110:1 "A Psalm of David. The LORD (invisible) said unto my Lord (visible shared in flesh manifested), Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool".
I suggest one re-read this post for clarity.
 
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101G

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GINOLJC, to all. another golden nugget in diversified oneness.

Paul’s recount of his calling as an apostle, after his conversion. Acts 22:17 "And it came to pass, that, when I was come again to Jerusalem, even while I prayed in the temple, I was in a trance; 18 And saw him saying unto me, Make haste, and get thee quickly out of Jerusalem: for they will not receive thy testimony concerning me 19 And I said, Lord, they know that I imprisoned and beat in every synagogue them that believed on thee: 20 And when the blood of thy martyr Stephen was shed, I also was standing by, and consenting unto his death, and kept the raiment of them that slew him. 21 And he said unto me, Depart: for I will send thee far hence unto the Gentiles”.

the "him", the "he", and the "I" is the Lord Jesus. now let's see who this is by finding out "who" sent him into the gentiles.

Acts 13:2 "As they ministered to the Lord, and fasted, the Holy Ghost said, Separate me Barnabas and Saul for the work whereunto I have called them. 3 And when they had fasted and prayed, and laid their hands on them, they sent them away. 4 So they, being sent forth by the Holy Ghost, departed unto Seleucia; and from thence they sailed to Cyprus”.

question, who sent Barnabas and Paul?, the Lord Jesus according to Paul's recount of things in Acts 22. but it was the Holy Ghost according to the account in Acts 13?. So who sent Paul?. Answer, the Lord Jesus, who is the Holy Ghost.

the "I", the "he" and the "him" are single person pronoun, meaning ONE person. the one whom many calls the Son is the Holy Ghost.
 

101G

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another golden nugget in diversified oneness.
Romans 1:19 "Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. 20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse".

there is no excuse, "he", "him" the invisible..... ONE.
 

101G

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GINOLJC, to all.
another confirmation of "diversity" in the Bible Study Forum today. "Why the Holy Spirit Is Excluded from Being Worshipped" post #18 & 19.
 

101G

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another diversity moment explained. topic, "Why the Holy Spirit Is Excluded from Being Worshipped", post #24. it is very apparent many christian are not understand the word of God. they use diversity principle all the time, yet failing to understand them.
 

101G

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The Greater than Question.
GINOLJC to all. John 14:28 "Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

John 14:12 "Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.

John 13:16 "Verily, verily, I say unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord; neither he that is sent greater than he that sent him.

in all these verses, the Greek word used for Greater is, meizon
G3187 μείζων meizon (mei'-zōn) adj.
larger (specially, in age).
{literally or figuratively}
[irregular comparative of G3173]
KJV: elder, greater(-est), more

many have used this word to show that the Lord Jesus is the second person in the Godhead, or that he just a human being. well if they, (the personsin the Godhead) suppose to be co-equal, how can one be second to the others, and yet be co-equal. makes no sense. these verses bring out the equality of God in his plurality, or as the Hebrew say H430 אֱלֹהִים 'elohiym (el-o-heem') n-m.

the key to understanding the meizon question is in it definition, “larger”. that can be in qualitative, or quantitative, simply put quality or quantity.

What did our Lord Jesus mean when he said, "The Father is Greater than I". in the book of Romans 12:3 it states, "For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith". this verse gives us the understanding of quantity, and quality. every man is the same, (quality), no man is superior to another, so there's no rank. also as with MALES and FEMALES in the kingdom of GOD. the same Spirit is in every man/female. and every man/female is given the same amount or the same quantity of Faith. so likewise as the same Spirit that manifest in that fleshly body, the nature of the Spirit did not change in quality, only the quantity is limited to that one body (in spatial), other words his Omni attributes was limited or G2758 κενόω kenoo, by his own will. let’s look at this in John the 14th. chapter. here, the Lord Jesus is speaking of the work of salvation. as the Spirit was in Christ, (the flesh), the man, he was limited, by that fleshly body with BLOOD. the Lord Jesus didn't go into all the world while he was here on earth in flesh and blood. he was limited in his work of salvation, because of that body he was in. but to see this clearly, watch the WORKS and how it is used. John 14:12 "Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father". see that word "greater" here in verse 12. it is the same word, "greater", Jesus uses in verse 28. wait a minute, is the Lor Jesus saying that men who believe is GREATER than him in power, (quality), as we been led to assume what greater means? NO. so what is the Lord Jesus really saying. as said, GREATER, have several meaning, depending on how you used it, in context or out of context. but let the bible explain itself. with that said, now we are seeing the real use of the word, in context meaning, greater as in quantity, and not in quality. greater used as an adjective, it means, "more" as in more believers to do the SAME quality of work, because it is the Lord who do the work. so now the work he is doing will be a greater number, as in them/us doing the same quality of work he was doing as an individual. more, or greater in quantity, not in quality, because he said, John 14:12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works, (there it is), than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father". so we who believe will do the SAME works, but now we have millions of Jesus doing the same quality of works, so greater here means more. let’s look at the answer to this millions of Jesus at work, as we’re co-worker with him. listen, John 14:14 "If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it". see it, those who ask in his name, why because he a believer, and if you're a believer, then born again, and being born again, you have the Spirit, and the Spirit dwells in you. now, let’s see those Omni attributes of JESUS, which only God possess. the verse to show them, John 14:14 “If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it". wait a minute, if Christ is in me, and the same Christ is in you, wherever you are. this means that Jesus, #1 must be everywhere at the same time in order to hear your request, and he have to be everywhere at the same time to to do the request, remember he said, "If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it", so he is doing the work, and if he's doing the work, and he have disciples, in Mobile, Baltimore, New York, Detroit, Dallas, Kansas City, Cairo, Hong Kong, Tokyo, and ect... then Jesus must be Omnipresent to do the work, and, and, to know which disciple is asking, he must be Omniscient, and, and for him to perform what is asked of him by his disciples, he must be Omnipotent. here the Lord Jesus is displaying all the attributes of GOD, why? because he is GOD the Holy Spirit.

so we can clearly see it is the quantity, that is GREATER, not quality, for it is the same, meaning, the same Spirit who worketh all in all now the quality is supportive by definition. G243 allos, and G2087 hetero verify this. Allos expresses a numerical difference and denotes another of the same sort;" heteros expresses a qualitative difference and denotes "another of a different sort." as our Lord is in the SAME SORT, meaning in the same class as God whom is SPIRIT. so he is not a “quality” different, only “quantity”, hence the “numerical difference” of G243 allos. and G243 allos support the statement of Phil 2:6 “EQUAL WITH”, meaning God himself.
 
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101G

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GINOLJC, to all. another failed to answer a simple question as to who the saviour is. not Jehovah, but the Lord JESUS. as the Son, (diversified) in flesh is the the same person only shared. the two Spirit are a numeric different as G243 allos sttes. so again Diversified Oneness is the only true doctrine of the Godhead.
 

101G

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GINOLJC, to all. my friend "mjrhealth, pointed out a good scripture that shows the diversity of God clearly in the topic The Problem With The Trinity, post #117, and my response Post #121. again thanks "mjrhealth.
 

101G

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John Chapter 14

I have hear many say that the Lord Jesus is not the Father, and the Father is not the Holy Spirit, and vice versa. I believe this not to be true.
This is my belief, I believe that the ONLY TRUE God is the HOLY SPIRIT, whom those of the trinity doctrine ignorantly place last in the Godhead. I believe that the Holy Spirit, GOD, diversified himself in flesh and blood, meaning to take on “another” form of life that we call human. The Philippians scriptures point this out plainly. And this belief is supported from Genesis 1:1 to Revelation 1:1 and to the end of the book of Revelation.
But the scriptures in John chapter 14 clearly shows that the Lord Jesus in flesh is the Holy Ghost in Spirit without flesh.
If there are any other views we can surely discuss them...... IN PEACE, AND IN THE KNOWLEDGE OF CHRIST JESUS.
 

101G

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John chapter 14 exposes the 3 person ignorance of the Godhead.
premise #1. Who is the comforter?
John 14:16 "And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever". the key word here is "ANOTHER". which is the Greek word G243 allos. another is the same person "diversified". but the question, "is the Lord Jesus the comforter now"? Yes, but is not the comforter Spirit? yes. but the Lord Jesus is in flesh and bone with blood. yes, scripture, Luke 2:25 "And, behold, there was a man in Jerusalem, whose name was Simeon; and the same man was just and devout, waiting for the consolation of Israel: and the Holy Ghost was upon him". this word, consolation is the Greek word, G3874 παράκλησις paraklesis (pa-ra'-klee-sis) n. do this word seems Familiar, one who gives comfort, a comforter. Isaiah 9:6 "For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace".
A Counsellor is H3289 יָעַץ ya`ats (yaw-ats') v.
1. to advise.
in our today's language, counsel for the defense.
now NT, 1 John 2:1 "My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous". that word advocate is the Greek word, G3875 παράκλητος parakletos (pa-ra'-klee-tos) n. the exact same thing as consolation
1. (properly) one called near (to give help).
2. an intercessor (one who entreats of behalf of another).
3. a comforter.

conclusion: in flesh the Lord Jesus is a comfort to his people in flesh, the G3874 παράκλησις paraklesis (pa-ra'-klee-sis) n.
in Spirit he is the G3875 παράκλητος parakletos (pa-ra'-klee-tos) n .
 

101G

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John Chapter 14

A. knowing that the Lord Jesus is the comforter in Spirit, and the advocate and high priest in flesh. we now examine him (the Lord Jesus) in that state.
premise #2. audience relevance. supportive scripture, John 14:18 "I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you". here, the Lord Jesus is speaking directly to his disciples. first what is audience relevance: Informative Speaking is a speech meant to inform the audience. This means that what was a good topic for a speech for George Washington is probably no longer going to be a good topic for a speech given now. A relevant topic is one that is appropriate for the contemporary period.
knowing this, verse 18 above is directed to his contemporary disciple. the Lord Jesus said, "I will not leave you comfortless". I is a direct reference to him. but what was he to do? "I will come to you". you is the contemporary disciple of his present time whom he was speaking to. now that's a very defined statement. but the question, how would he come to them, because in verse 2 he said, "I go to prepare a place for you". he said that he would "manifest" himself to them, (see verse 21). well Judas asked, not Iscariot, a good question, John 14:22 "Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world?". this is a key question. a. he would manifest in a way that they would know but not the world. b. this manifestation would not be in flesh, why because he had already manifested in the flesh, presently scripture, 1 Timothy 3:16 "And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory". so this manifestation is not in flesh again. the burning question, "HOW IS THE LORD JESUS GOING TO MANIFEST HIMSELF". answer, in Spirit, it happen on the day of Pentecost. Acts 2:1-4 "And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.Acts 2:2 "And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting. 3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them. 4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance". can we back this up in scripture, YES, verse 4 of acts said, "began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance". speaking in other tongues is a manifested "GIFT" of the Spirit, scripture, 1 Corinthians 12:7 "But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal". STOP, there's that manifestation that Judas asked about, and let's see the gift of other tongues. verse 10. 1 Corinthians 12:10 "To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues". there it is the MANIFESTATION that our Lord Jesus say that he would do, and what Judas asked about and it happen on Pentecost. so, the Lord Jesus on Pentecost manifested himself in the Spiritual Gifts.

how plain in language can one be?. the Lord Jesus said that he's returning as the Spirit of Truth, which he is "THE TRUTH". amen.
 

101G

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GINOLJC, to all. another member confirmed "diversified Oneness" for us in the NonChristian Help Forum, "Garden of Eden", it was brought up that there was no scripture stating that the WORD of God have the name Jesus. well just read the post #56 there.
the Lord Jesus is the WORD of God meaning the Spirit of God meaning as John 1:1 states the WORD was GOD. and the PERSONAL name of God is, Hebrew Yeshua, English transliterated, "JESUS".

Another one for "diversified Oneness". it all throughout the bible from Genesis to Revelation.
 

101G

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GINOLJC, to all. many people think the son of God "ONLY" means a flesh men. no, Son of God mean God (who is Spirit) in Flesh. son of man is the diversified spirit that is in that flesh. the true essence or the equality of God is "another" of himself in flesh. do this pose a problem as "another". do not the scriptures states, Isaiah 46:5 "To whom will ye liken me, and make me equal, and compare me, that we may be like?" do not Philippians 2:6 say that the Lord Jesus is equal "with" God, "Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God". but again Isaiah 40:25 "To whom then will ye liken me, or shall I be equal? saith the Holy One". well the conclusion must be that there is no equal outside of him. and since that's true, then it must be him or "of" him. see post #159 in the topic, "The Problem With The Trinity".
 

101G

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GINOLJC, to all. I have posed this question to many of my Unitarians friends out there, but none could answer. Did not the prophet Isaiah say that the Lord Jesus, (as Unitarians friends, would say) BE THE "FATHER"? ..... Isaiah 9:6. if God whom many say is the Father, a separate person, from the son, how can the Lord Jesus, (being the son) become the Father also as according to Malachi 2:10a "Have we not all one father? hath not one God created us?

and Isaiah 63:16 states clearly, "Doubtless thou art our father, though Abraham be ignorant of us, and Israel acknowledge us not: thou, O LORD, art our father, our redeemer; thy name is from everlasting”. wait a minute, our Father and our "redeemer". I thought the Lord Jesus is the redeemer.
and in Micah 5:2 we have this, "But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting”. this is being referred to the Lord Jesus see Matthews 2:3-6.

So my question how can the Lord Jesus be Father and the Son at the same time?. remember God don’t change, or lie.
 

101G

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"Why the Lord Jesus don’t know his return date"

again the beauty of the"diversity" of God in flesh. the answer is in the "will" of God. God have a "will". and it is clearly seen in the Godly principle of Matthew 6:3. listen, "But when thou doest alms, let not thy left hand know what thy right hand doeth". question, how can one do something themselves without knowing about it. your right hand, and left hand is a part of you. the answer, because you "will" it not to be known. sound strange? NO, I have done it. when someone come to me in confidentiality, I will myself not to remember as to what have been said unto me, because I will not to remember it. Let’s see how God do it. scripture, Jeremiah 31:34 "And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more". see that? "and I (will) remember their sin no more". HOLD IT, how can almighty, all knowing God not remember? Answer, it's an act of the will. he wills "not" to remember. just as he said in Matthew 6:3b "let not thy left hand know what thy right hand doeth", "let" is an act of the will. so how do all of this relates to our Lord's not knowing his return date. answer, Revelation chapter 5. our Lord, Jesus is sitting on the throne. what happens? the Spirit, (the Father, the Holy Ghost), the now glorified LAMB comes and takes the book out of one of his hands. question, which hand did he take the book out of?, the right hand. Remember Matthew 6:3 "But when thou doest alms, let not thy left hand know what thy right hand doeth". by the Father, (the Holy Spirit, the glorified LAMB), taking the book out of his "RIGHT" hand he, the Lord Jesus, wills not to KNOW his return DATE. because the book contains all the information of what's the come. so, only the Father, (the Holy Spirit, the now glorified Lamb, the diversified one), knows because the father took the book out of his "RIGHT" hand. by our Lord being in flesh and bone, and as mediator, he fulfills the DAVIDIC PROPHECY, Psalms 110:1 "A Psalm of David. The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool". The until is written in the book that was in the Lord's right hand, with the seals unbroken. So the Lord Jesus statement is true, no one knows only he who took the book, and that’s the FATHER, the now glorified LAMB. and it is the Father/Holy Spirit who is now on earth, making his enemy his footstool.
Another mystery cleared up, by knowing diversity.
 

ScottA

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The Greater than Question.
GINOLJC to all. John 14:28 "Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

John 14:12 "Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.

John 13:16 "Verily, verily, I say unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord; neither he that is sent greater than he that sent him.

in all these verses, the Greek word used for Greater is, meizon
G3187 μείζων meizon (mei'-zōn) adj.
larger (specially, in age).
{literally or figuratively}
[irregular comparative of G3173]
KJV: elder, greater(-est), more

many have used this word to show that the Lord Jesus is the second person in the Godhead, or that he just a human being. well if they, (the personsin the Godhead) suppose to be co-equal, how can one be second to the others, and yet be co-equal. makes no sense. these verses bring out the equality of God in his plurality, or as the Hebrew say H430 אֱלֹהִים 'elohiym (el-o-heem') n-m.

the key to understanding the meizon question is in it definition, “larger”. that can be in qualitative, or quantitative, simply put quality or quantity.

What did our Lord Jesus mean when he said, "The Father is Greater than I". in the book of Romans 12:3 it states, "For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith". this verse gives us the understanding of quantity, and quality. every man is the same, (quality), no man is superior to another, so there's no rank. also as with MALES and FEMALES in the kingdom of GOD. the same Spirit is in every man/female. and every man/female is given the same amount or the same quantity of Faith. so likewise as the same Spirit that manifest in that fleshly body, the nature of the Spirit did not change in quality, only the quantity is limited to that one body (in spatial), other words his Omni attributes was limited or G2758 κενόω kenoo, by his own will. let’s look at this in John the 14th. chapter. here, the Lord Jesus is speaking of the work of salvation. as the Spirit was in Christ, (the flesh), the man, he was limited, by that fleshly body with BLOOD. the Lord Jesus didn't go into all the world while he was here on earth in flesh and blood. he was limited in his work of salvation, because of that body he was in. but to see this clearly, watch the WORKS and how it is used. John 14:12 "Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father". see that word "greater" here in verse 12. it is the same word, "greater", Jesus uses in verse 28. wait a minute, is the Lor Jesus saying that men who believe is GREATER than him in power, (quality), as we been led to assume what greater means? NO. so what is the Lord Jesus really saying. as said, GREATER, have several meaning, depending on how you used it, in context or out of context. but let the bible explain itself. with that said, now we are seeing the real use of the word, in context meaning, greater as in quantity, and not in quality. greater used as an adjective, it means, "more" as in more believers to do the SAME quality of work, because it is the Lord who do the work. so now the work he is doing will be a greater number, as in them/us doing the same quality of work he was doing as an individual. more, or greater in quantity, not in quality, because he said, John 14:12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works, (there it is), than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father". so we who believe will do the SAME works, but now we have millions of Jesus doing the same quality of works, so greater here means more. let’s look at the answer to this millions of Jesus at work, as we’re co-worker with him. listen, John 14:14 "If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it". see it, those who ask in his name, why because he a believer, and if you're a believer, then born again, and being born again, you have the Spirit, and the Spirit dwells in you. now, let’s see those Omni attributes of JESUS, which only God possess. the verse to show them, John 14:14 “If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it". wait a minute, if Christ is in me, and the same Christ is in you, wherever you are. this means that Jesus, #1 must be everywhere at the same time in order to hear your request, and he have to be everywhere at the same time to to do the request, remember he said, "If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it", so he is doing the work, and if he's doing the work, and he have disciples, in Mobile, Baltimore, New York, Detroit, Dallas, Kansas City, Cairo, Hong Kong, Tokyo, and ect... then Jesus must be Omnipresent to do the work, and, and, to know which disciple is asking, he must be Omniscient, and, and for him to perform what is asked of him by his disciples, he must be Omnipotent. here the Lord Jesus is displaying all the attributes of GOD, why? because he is GOD the Holy Spirit.

so we can clearly see it is the quantity, that is GREATER, not quality, for it is the same, meaning, the same Spirit who worketh all in all now the quality is supportive by definition. G243 allos, and G2087 hetero verify this. Allos expresses a numerical difference and denotes another of the same sort;" heteros expresses a qualitative difference and denotes "another of a different sort." as our Lord is in the SAME SORT, meaning in the same class as God whom is SPIRIT. so he is not a “quality” different, only “quantity”, hence the “numerical difference” of G243 allos. and G243 allos support the statement of Phil 2:6 “EQUAL WITH”, meaning God himself.
Your explanation is good and hopefully useful to those who struggle with the complex nature of God. The problem comes when people make human limitations the limit also for God. How silly!
 
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101G

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Your explanation is good and hopefully useful to those who struggle with the complex nature of God. The problem comes when people make human limitations the limit also for God. How silly!
thanks Scott, may God always be with you.
 

101G

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Another conformation of God's word as the fact of his plurality. in the NonChristian Help Forum, in the topic, Garden of Eden. it was confirmed that right in the very first verse of the bible diversity. as the First and the Last. and the prophet Isaiah support this diversity of the oneness of God. just watch the red.
#1. The same God in Genesis 1:1. Isaiah 41:4 "Who hath wrought and done it, calling the generations from the beginning? I the LORD, the first, and with the last; I am he".

#2 The same God in Genesis 1:1. Isaiah 44:6 "Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God".

#3. The same God in Genesis 1:1. Isaiah 48:12 "Hearken unto me, O Jacob and Israel, my called; I am he; I am the first, I also am the last".

I in all these verses are one PERSON, "diversified". the scriptures are true, 1 Peter 2:6-8 "Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded. 7 Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner, 8 And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed". so it's not their fault.......... :(.
 

101G

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The Governor of the people
Psalms 22:28 "For the kingdom is the LORD'S: and he is the governor among the nations". this is the LORD all caps.
Matthew 2:6 "And thou Bethlehem, in the land of Juda, art not the least among the princes of Juda: for out of thee shall come a Governor, that shall rule my people Israel". this is the fulfillment of Micah 5:2 "But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting". here RULER can be translated as GOVERNOR in the KJV. but is this the same PERSON? let's see, A. both are everlasting. B. both are the redeemer of all mankind.
yes, both "is" redeemer. Isaiah 63:16 "Doubtless thou art our father, though Abraham be ignorant of us, and Israel acknowledge us not: thou, O LORD, art our father, our redeemer; thy name is from everlasting". is not the Lord Jesus A. Everlasting B. Governor. C. Redeemer.
but as Governor, Isaiah 9:6 "For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace". hmmmmm..... SAME PERSON.