Nancy
Well-Known Member
Thank you Eliyahu613 for your posts. It would take quite some time for me to look closely at each point but, at a glance...it seems it will be easy enough to catch your jest. Thank you for sharing
The messiah didn't come yet.
- Thread starter Eliyahu613
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Thank you Eliyahu613 for your posts. It would take quite some time for me to look closely at each point but, at a glance...it seems it will be easy enough to catch your jest. Thank you for sharing
Nancy
Well-Known Member
You make good points and I will consider what I read but, never jump into a "new thing" (to me, that is).
Bs"d
Some more "messianic prophecies" from the list:
"25 Messiah would be betrayed. Psalm 41:9 Zechariah 11:12-13
26 Messiah's price money would be used to buy a potter's field. Zechariah 11:12-13"
The Christian claim: The betraying of JC for 30 pieces of silver prophesied in Zachariah
Zech 11:12 "I told them, "If you think it best, give me my pay; but if not, keep it." So they paid me thirty pieces of silver. 13 And the LORD said to me, "Throw it to the potter"-the handsome price at which they priced me! So I took the thirty pieces of silver and threw them into the house of the LORD to the potter."
Alleged fulfillment: Matthew 26:14-15 "Then one of the twelve, who is called Judas Iscariot, having gone unto the chief priests, said, `What are ye willing to give me, and I will deliver him up to you?' and they weighed out to him thirty silverlings,"
Matthew 27:5 "So Judas threw the money into the temple and left. Then he went away and hanged himself. 6 The chief priests picked up the coins and said, "It is against the law to put this into the treasury, since it is blood money." 7 So they decided to use the money to buy the potter's field as a burial place for foreigners. 8 That is why it has been called the Field of Blood to this day. 9 Then what was spoken by Jeremiah the prophet was fulfilled: "They took the thirty silver coins, the price set on him by the people of Israel, 10 and they used them to buy the potter's field, as the Lord commanded me."
And now the facts.
As we see in Zechariah, there is no messiah to be seen who is being betrayed for 30 pieces of silver. And no potters fields are being bought in Zechariah.
As a matter of fact, in all of this text in Zechariah is no potter to be found.
No potter to be found?
No potter to be found.
The above translation of Zechariah 11:12 is from the New International Version. It says that Zechariah threw the money to the "potter" in the Temple.
In the Hebrew is written "yotseer". That can mean "potter", but it can also mean "treasurer".
In the Temple weren't any potters sitting around. Who was sitting there, was a treasurer, who accepted the gifts for the Temple.
So Zechariah doesn't speak about a potter, but about a treasurer.
This fact is recognized by the Revised Standard Version, it says here "treasurer" in stead of "potter".
Also Youngs Literal Translation says here "treasurer", and also the Contemporary English Version says here "treasury".
The Stone Edition of the Tanach says: "HASHEM (literally: "The Name) said to me, "Throw it to the treasurer of the Precious Stronghold which I have divested from them". So I threw it into the Temple of HASHEM, to the treasurer."
Also the New World Translation of the Watch Tower Society gives a good translation: At that, J-e-h-o-v-a-h said to me: “Throw it to the treasury—the majestic value with which I have been valued from their standpoint.” Accordingly I took the thirty pieces of silver and threw it into the treasury at the house of J-e-h-o-v-a-h."
So what we see here, is that there is no "potter" in Zechariah, and that the whole NT story about buying land of a potter has no bearing whatsoever on the text in Zechariah.
Also we have here a clear proof that the NT text is so orchestrated that it looks as if it fulfills OT prophecies. But because of the fact that they make here another mistake in the translation, the set up is clear to see for everybody.
And there is more. Look again to Matthew 27 and see what the Christians won't tell you: "9 Then what was spoken by Jeremiah the prophet was fulfilled: "They took the thirty silver coins, the price set on him by the people of Israel, 10 and they used them to buy the potter's field, as the Lord commanded me."
So here we see that Matthew claims that this text comes from Jeremiah, when in truth, it comes from Zechariah.
Another slip up of the New Testament which is supposedly divinely inspired.
Matthew was not capable of naming the right prophet.
And this is supposed to "prove" that JC is the messiah.
Well, with friends like Matthew, you don't need enemies anymore.
Don't know why what you posted was deleted. Perhaps the rules or a moderater can tell you.
Sure it is. You have knowledge, understanding and a view according to your understanding.
Thank you.
You gave a Scripture, You gave your understanding, and implied your understanding is is clear.
It is not clear to me, WHO you understand IS;
Each This Scripture reveals...
thou, thee, me, he, she, the LORD, we, his, our, him, remnant, this man, seven Shepards, flocks, thine, adversaries, enemies, Jacob, land of Nimrod, land of Assyrians, Jewish, Gentile's ...
Until the time...
What is your concise answer?
WHO...name?
WHAT....is the Messiah?
Thank you,
Taken
What is a 100% human being?
What Scripture says that?
What Scripture says:
* The Messiah Will NOT BE God?
* The Messiah WILL NOT be Divine?
* The Messiah Will NOT be a son of God?
* Will Be a Human?
Totally Human Scripture?
WHO "was" JC's Paternal genealogical line?
Thank You,
Taken
101G
Well-Known Member
“The 30 pieces of silver”
this has been fulfilled.Matthew 27:3 "Then Judas, which had betrayed him, when he saw that he was condemned, repented himself, and brought again the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and elders,
Matthew 27:4 "Saying, I have sinned in that I have betrayed the innocent blood. And they said, What is that to us? see thou to that.
Matthew 27:5 "And he cast down the pieces of silver in the temple, and departed, and went and hanged himself.
Matthew 27:6 "And the chief priests took the silver pieces, and said, It is not lawful for to put them into the treasury, because it is the price of blood.
Matthew 27:7 "And they took counsel, and bought with them the potter's field, to bury strangers in.
Matthew 27:8 "Wherefore that field was called, The field of blood, unto this day.
Matthew 27:9 "Then was fulfilled that which was spoken by Jeremy the prophet, saying, And they took the thirty pieces of silver, the price of him that was valued, whom they of the children of Israel did value;
Matthew 27:10 "And gave them for the potter's field, as the Lord appointed me”.
OK where in Jeremiah do this say that?. lets check the record.
Jeremiah 32:6 "And Jeremiah said, The word of the LORD came unto me, saying,
Jeremiah 32:7 "Behold, Hanameel the son of Shallum thine uncle shall come unto thee, saying, Buy thee my field that is in Anathoth: for the right of redemption is thine to buy it.
Jeremiah 32:8 "So Hanameel mine uncle's son came to me in the court of the prison according to the word of the LORD, and said unto me, Buy my field, I pray thee, that is in Anathoth, which is in the country of Benjamin: for the right of inheritance is thine, and the redemption is thine; buy it for thyself. Then I knew that this was the word of the LORD.
Jeremiah 32:9 "And I bought the field of Hanameel my uncle's son, that was in Anathoth, and weighed him the money, even seventeen shekels of silver.
17 shekels is equal to 30 average size silver pieces. BINGO.
He also foretold this event to the Prophet Zechariah. as which you stated, but began with Jeremiah 32 first.
PICJAG.
Once He Came, as Written in All Tanakh, Faithfully, Truthfully, When it was The Appointed Time.
When He Returns Again ? As/When all His people rejoice and CRY OUT! :BLESSED IS HE WHO COMES IN THE NAME ADONAI !
When He Returns Again ? As/When all His people rejoice and CRY OUT! :BLESSED IS HE WHO COMES IN THE NAME ADONAI !
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The last book of the Old Testament, Malachi,
Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me: and the Lord, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the Lord of hosts. - Malachi 3:1
Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord: - Malachi 4:5
Approximately 450 years later...
10 And his disciples asked him, saying, Why then say the scribes that Elias must first come?
11 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Elias truly shall first come, and restore all things.
12 But I say unto you, That Elias is come already, and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they listed. Likewise shall also the Son of man suffer of them.
13 Then the disciples understood that he spake unto them of John the Baptist. - Matthew 17
The 450 year period was a long time between Malachi and Matthew. If the Messiah has not yet come this would make the prophecy almost 2,500 years old, which is just too much time!
MARANANTHA ! COME LORD JESUS ! (KING OF THE JEWS)
His Return, will be resurrection LIFE to many , LIGHT IN DARKNESS ! AT LAST !
Bs"d
The animal sacrifices ceased in 66, when the Romans laid a siege around Jerusalem, and no more bulls and sheep could be brought into the city for the sacrificial service. 66 that was in the middle of the last week.
I go deeper into that here: Daniel 9
Bs"d
No, prophecy is closed: "Seventy weeks of years are decreed concerning your people and your holy city, to finish the transgression, to put an end to sin, and to atone for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal both vision and prophet, and to anoint a most holy place."
Daniel 9
?????? What does this mean?????
Are you trying to say: - "With the help of Heaven/God."
It seems to me that you have not yet grasped your hope in this hope of having the help of God yet.
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Well, so much for your understanding. Yes, we can look at the historical facts, but why was the Temple removed from the face of the earth? So that the corporate Sin Sacrifice of Animals of the nation of Israel could no longer be accomplished in the manner prescribed yearly?
It was because the nation of Israel indulged in idolatrous worship continually over the first two ages of their existence and God warned Solomon that if they continued with their continual idolatrous worship in 2 Chron 7:12ff that the Israelites would be scattered to the four corners of the earth, as was foretold to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob in the Abrahamic Covenant, before they went down to Egypt because of the famine in the land, and the Temple in Jerusalem would be no more are that it would be levelled and, in another prophecy, the place where it stood would be ploughed.
In the Book of Luke, Jesus is recorded foretelling the facts they would attempt to build a third temple but that they would not have the means to complete this and that shortly afterwards they will seek Christs terms of Peace when they see Him judging the Kings of the earth that will gather, in our near future, at the place called Armageddon, which is also the fulfilment of Isaiah 24:21-22, where we are told that Satan and his cohorts will also be judged and that the judged kings of the earth and the judged heavenly hosts will be gathered together in a pit to await many days for their eventual punishment. In the Parable of the Minas, in Luke also, Jesus also tells His audience as they together walk up from Jericho towards Jerusalem that when Satan goes away into the abyss for a protracted period of time, that when he leaves that they, the nation of Israel, will send a delegation, after Satan leaves, to God stating that they no longer want to have Satan as king over them anymore. That was why we are told in the scriptures that Israel will be the first fruits of Christ's Rule of the Everlasting Kingdom when He is given it.
But enough of my rambling thoughts for the time being.
Shalom
Waiting on him
Well-Known Member
I would not judge @Eliahu613 just yet as the Messiah has not yet come, even though many Christian commentators believe that 1948 was the year that Israel returned to the land of Canaan with the help of God. Sadly, Genesis 15:16 tells us that around 4,000 years after the birth of Isaac, some of Abraham's descendants did return to the land of Canaan in their own strength and that at that time the iniquities of the Amorite People is not yet complete. 1948 was a sign spoken of by Jesus/the Messiah of the fig Tree, i.e., a metaphor for Israel, that gives us a signpost for when the judgement of the Gentile Kings, doing the bidding of the Little Horn's prophesied 2,300 year of trampling God's Sanctuary and His Earthly Hosts as well as when the judgement of the fallen heavenly hosts in heaven as recorded in Isaiah 24:21-22, and that they will be imprisoned for many days.
Ezekiel 34 also records the following: -
Ezekiel 34 also records the following: -
Ezekiel 34:11-16: - God, the True Shepherd
11 'For thus says the Lord God: "Indeed I Myself will search for My sheep and seek them out. 12 As a shepherd seeks out his flock on the day he is among his scattered sheep, so will I seek out My sheep and deliver/rescue them from all the places where they were scattered on a cloudy and dark day. 13 And I will bring them out from the peoples and gather them from the countries and will bring them to/into their own land/fertile field; I will feed them on the mountain(s) of Israel, {a metaphor for Israel’s religious basis}, in the {river} valleys and in all the inhabited places of the country/earth. 14 I will feed them in good pasture, and their fold shall be on the high mountain(s) of Israel, {i.e. the religious basis of Israel}. There they shall lie down in a good fold and feed in rich pasture on the mountain(s) of Israel {i.e. the religious basis of Israel}. 15 I will feed My flock, and I will make them lie down," says the Lord God. 16 "I will seek what was lost and bring back what was driven away, bind up the broken and strengthen what was sick; but I will destroy the fat and the strong, and feed them in judgment."
And
Ezekiel 34 25-31: - 25 "I will make a covenant of peace with them and cause wild beasts [1] to cease from the land/earth; and they will dwell safely in the wilderness and sleep in the woods. 26 I will make them and the places all around My hill a blessing; and I will cause showers to come down in their season; there shall be showers of blessing. 27 Then the trees of the field shall yield their fruit, and the earth shall yield her increase. They shall be safe in their land/the earth; and they shall know that I am the Lord, when I have broken the bands of their yoke and delivered them from the hand of those who enslaved them. 28 And they shall no longer be a prey for the nations, nor shall beasts of the land/earth devour them; but they shall dwell safely, and no one shall make them afraid. 29 I will raise up for them a garden of renown, and they shall no longer be consumed with hunger in the land/on the earth, nor bear the shame of the Gentiles anymore. 30 Thus they shall know that I, the Lord their God, am with them, and they, the house of Israel, are My people," says the Lord God.'"
31 "You are My flock, the flock of My pasture; you are men, and I am your God," says the Lord God.
From these quoted portions of Ezekiel 34, we can draw the conclusion that: -
Israel will be the first fruits of Christ in the Everlasting Kingdom
and
God intends to leave the Israelites scattered throughout the whole earth until the time of the GWTR judgement.
I would suggest that many people have a distorted understanding of God's purposes for Israel in the End Times.Shalom
[1] This is a reference to God’s judgement of the beastly Heavenly Hosts who will be judged during the time that God is turning His attention once more towards the Israelites in our near future, around the year 2044 AD give or take a year or so either way.
Isaiah 24:21-22 speaks of God Judging the Heavenly Hosts in Heaven and the kings of the earth on the earth and that they will be gathered together with the kings of the earth and imprisoned in a cistern/pit for many days to await the time of their punishment.
Daniel 7:11-12 also speaks of the time of the judgement of the Beasts, referred to as the winds of Heaven in Daniel 7:2 that causes a manifestation of the four respective beasts to rise up out of the sea of humanity with the dominate characteristic of the four respective beasts.
In Revelation 16:12-16 we are told that the kings of the earth after the signs performed by the three foul frog like spirits when they went out from the mouth of the Dragon, the False Prophet and the Beast would be to assemble them for battle, on the great day of God the Almighty at Armageddon where they will be judged as Isaiah 24:21-22 prophesied.
Paul wrote in Romans 11:25-26, that when the fullness with respect to time, that has been set for the Gentiles to trample God’s Sanctuary and His earthly Hosts, has drawn to its conclusion, after the 2,300 year period, and the subsequent judgement of the kings of the earth, all of Israel will be saved.
Ezekiel 34:28 repeats this same theme, where it points a second time to the beasts being removed from the face of the earth and not troubling Israel for a period of 1,000-years.
Daniel 7:11-12 also speaks of the time of the judgement of the Beasts, referred to as the winds of Heaven in Daniel 7:2 that causes a manifestation of the four respective beasts to rise up out of the sea of humanity with the dominate characteristic of the four respective beasts.
In Revelation 16:12-16 we are told that the kings of the earth after the signs performed by the three foul frog like spirits when they went out from the mouth of the Dragon, the False Prophet and the Beast would be to assemble them for battle, on the great day of God the Almighty at Armageddon where they will be judged as Isaiah 24:21-22 prophesied.
Paul wrote in Romans 11:25-26, that when the fullness with respect to time, that has been set for the Gentiles to trample God’s Sanctuary and His earthly Hosts, has drawn to its conclusion, after the 2,300 year period, and the subsequent judgement of the kings of the earth, all of Israel will be saved.
Ezekiel 34:28 repeats this same theme, where it points a second time to the beasts being removed from the face of the earth and not troubling Israel for a period of 1,000-years.
Waiting on him
Well-Known Member
I would not judge @Eliahu613 just yet as the Messiah has not yet come,
I’m not at all judging. I had a few questions for him.
I’m not at all judging. I had a few questions for him.
Waiting on him
Well-Known Member
Behold
Well-Known Member
And if the devil had a few more like you, he wouldn't mind, Eliyahu613.
Now, Here is the thing.
We are told by John that anyone who says that Messiah has not come in the Flesh, is "anti-Christ".
You've been told this already, in this Thread, ??????? as i wouldn't waste the time to look.
So, if you've not been told, then now you have....
And you've been told this many times in other places...... As a Christian forum Troll like you, has certainly heard it before.
See, You've more than qualified yourself as a deeply devout agent of the Devil.
There is good news.
And that is, .. you are not disqualified from being forgiven your blasphemy., as Christ died for His enemies, and that means you.
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