The Moral Law

[Randy Kluth]

1 Timothy 1.8 We know that the law is good if one uses it properly. 9 We also know that the law is made not for the righteous but for lawbreakers and rebels, the ungodly and sinful, the unholy and irreligious, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers, 10 for the sexually immoral, for those practicing homosexuality, for slave traders and liars and perjurers—and for whatever else is contrary to the sound doctrine 11 that conforms to the gospel concerning the glory of the blessed God, which he entrusted to me.

This shows us that the Law, in the NT era, is still useful even though the Covenant of the Law is passe. It still functions as the word of God in the sense that God has not changed, His morality has not changed. Some call this the "Moral Law." It is consistent in all of God's laws because no matter what covenant is in effect, God's holy character and His demands upon Man morally remains the same.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

1 Timothy 1.8 We know that the law is good if one uses it properly. 9 We also know that the law is made not for the righteous but for lawbreakers and rebels, the ungodly and sinful, the unholy and irreligious, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers, 10 for the sexually immoral, for those practicing homosexuality, for slave traders and liars and perjurers—and for whatever else is contrary to the sound doctrine 11 that conforms to the gospel concerning the glory of the blessed God, which he entrusted to me.

This shows us that the Law, in the NT era, is still useful even though the Covenant of the Law is passe. It still functions as the word of God in the sense that God has not changed, His morality has not changed. Some call this the "Moral Law." It is consistent in all of God's laws because no matter what covenant is in effect, God's holy character and His demands upon Man morally remains the same.

Well 9 of the ten that man has classified as the "moral code" of the Mosaic law (the ten of the 613) still shows the righteous what unrighteousness is. But it is no longer binding on the believer for We are in christ. When we live in Christ we are incapable of sin. when we live in the old man, we can do nothing but sin.

 

[Bob Estey]

1 Timothy 1.8 We know that the law is good if one uses it properly. 9 We also know that the law is made not for the righteous but for lawbreakers and rebels, the ungodly and sinful, the unholy and irreligious, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers, 10 for the sexually immoral, for those practicing homosexuality, for slave traders and liars and perjurers—and for whatever else is contrary to the sound doctrine 11 that conforms to the gospel concerning the glory of the blessed God, which he entrusted to me.

This shows us that the Law, in the NT era, is still useful even though the Covenant of the Law is passe. It still functions as the word of God in the sense that God has not changed, His morality has not changed. Some call this the "Moral Law." It is consistent in all of God's laws because no matter what covenant is in effect, God's holy character and His demands upon Man morally remains the same.

When we sin, trouble enters our lives. For example, if I rob a bank, I go to prison. So it would seem to me that God's commandments are most helpful.

 

[Randy Kluth]

When we sin, trouble enters our lives. For example, if I rob a bank, I go to prison. So it would seem to me that God's commandments are most helpful.

Of course. Not everybody needs to be told not to rob a bank, but it's good for us all to make a social contract and ensure we're all on the same page.

My thought was that some Christians have thought that if they're going to neglect the Law of Moses, with all of its temple, priestly, and sacrificial laws that we might then think it's okay to break God's 10 Commandments and moral laws. Even more specifically, some think that if we ignore even an abbreviated form of the Law of Moses, such as the Jews do, we will likewise neglect keeping the Moral Law and think we're free of all law, which is antinomianism.

The Jews tend to translate the Law into an abbreviated Covenant, still retaining it as a binding Covenant with less laws, but allowing them to ignore temple, priestly, and sacrificial law, since God never required those things during the Babylonian Captivity. But true NT teaching sees the Law of Moses as irretrievably broken and beyond re-starting in any form.

Even the 10 Commandments are a subset of the Law as a covenant. So we don't keep the 10 Commandments as a *covenant,* and we don't keep the Sabbath Law, which is contained in the 10 Commandments.

We see the universal element of God's Law within the Covenant of Law, because its essential purpose is restraining sin and encouraging moral law. That does not end when we receive and embrace Christ.

We do not have to retain anything more than the Moral Law, since the Law, as a covenant, has expired. Like the Jews we can ignore temple law, but unlike them we reject the Law as a covenant entirely, retaining only the values expressed in its purpose to restrain sin and to encourage righteousness. It is only that we now retain law as only through Christ's own performance, and not performances once required under the Law.

The primary purpose of the Law was to restrain sin and to encourage righteousness, which is now adhered to just not by adhering to law, but by putting our faith in Christ's righteousness and sacrifice for sin. We put our faith in Christ and observe the laws of Christ and adhere to them through his power.

Since we can't achieve salvation, as sinners, under the Covenant of Law, we exercise strictly Moral Law, operating in the power of Christ, and trust in him as an atonement for our sin. All of the rituals of the Law are obsolete, having been there only to provide a temporary fix until Christ himself could fulfill all of it.

 

[quietthinker]

If a person who claims to be a Christian for a longer period of time still rattles on about this, it is clear to me they haven't understood God's Grace in Jesus.

 

[Randy Kluth]

If a person who claims to be a Christian for a longer period of time still rattles on about this, it is clear to me they haven't understood God's Grace in Jesus.

A bad attitude can seem to indicate no understanding of Grace. But the nature of Grace is such that we can do things imperfectly.

I've for years and years run into Christians who claim that we are under the 10 Commandments, as if it is separate from the Law of Moses but just as binding as the Law of Moses. I've run into many other Christians over the years who believe that we are even under the Law to some degree, including the Sabbath Law.

Adhering to a law that they think lasts "until the heavens and the earth pass away," they therefore claim we have to keep the Sabbath because that is part of the 10 Commandments. You may or may not have experienced this?

 

[Randy Kluth]

Jesus is the vehicle through which our adherence to law comes. The Law of Moses was purely a temporary reprieve until Jesus came. But the Law in itself never could do anything more than show our imperfect adherence to God's requirements for membership in Paradise.

So when we live through Jesus, we are putting our stake in his perfect record, and accepting that the sins we are forsaking but have really committed are forgiven and forgotten, so that we can enter God's eternal Kingdom. When we forsake our sins we show that we adhere to law only through the spirit of Jesus, and not independent of him.

I say this because some Christians on these forums have told me that because our righteousness comes by Christ alone there is nothing we can do to achieve merit with God, nothing that we need do to obtain Salvation. But there is a difference between obtaining Salvation and meriting Salvation.

We obtain Salvation when we receive and display Christ in our lives. Christ merited our Salvation exclusively when he atoned for our sins on the cross.

We do not do anything apart from Christ when we adhere to law. When we receive Christ we actually become lawful by choosing to do good in him, as well as to receive atonement for our sins. In responding to God's word we obtain the virtue necessary to obey that word.

 

[quietthinker]

A bad attitude can seem to indicate no understanding of Grace. But the nature of Grace is such that we can do things imperfectly.

I've for years and years run into Christians who claim that we are under the 10 Commandments, as if it is separate from the Law of Moses but just as binding as the Law of Moses. I've run into many other Christians over the years who believe that we are even under the Law to some degree, including the Sabbath Law.

Adhering to a law that they think lasts "until the heavens and the earth pass away," they therefore claim we have to keep the Sabbath because that is part of the 10 Commandments. You may or may not have experienced this?

God is moral not legal. God gives up his place in the lifeboat for you not because of some law but because that his nature; it is moral.
We keep God's Commandments because it is moral. Making God's Commandments a legal argument is like giving up your place in the lifeboat for another because someone else has prescribed it. It's untenable, it's fake.

Jesus dies for others because that's his morality not because of an objective stipulation.

 

[Randy Kluth]

God is moral not legal. God gives up his place in the lifeboat for you not because of some law but because that his nature; it is moral.
We keep God's Commandments because it is moral. Making God's Commandments a legal argument is like giving up your place in the lifeboat for another because someone else has prescribed it. It's untenable, it's fake.

Jesus dies for others because that's his morality not because of an objective stipulation.

I see no real difference between morality and legality--they're virtual synonyms. What differentiates morality from legal *systems,* however, in the matter of redemption, is grace. Grace is the thing that allows one to be moral and legal without being caught up and trapped in a legal system that condemns any failure.

I hear the same argument regularly--we can't satisfy God's will by law. Instead, by obtaining a new heart we just "want" to do the right thing.

I think this is a failure to understand what we're told about receiving a "new heart." The legal condition we must meet, or the stipulation demanding our performance, is not negated by the fact Christ is our atonement.

We still must meet the condition of accepting Christ. The stipulation of "faith" is that we choose to trust Christ as the means of both our performance and our forgiveness. By grace we obtain from Christ both his righteousness and his atonement. In dong so we meet the standard by which we may be saved.

Certainly it is true that accepting Christ we receive a new heart. But that is not what justifies us. What justifies us is Christ's atonement, and we obtain that simply by embracing Christ in our heart, indicating that we're willing to receive a new heart and live by it.

For many this will be like splitting hairs. But I've lived with these kinds of distinctions for many years, and I just feel I have to address it for the few like me who've had to have answers for it. My apologies to those for whom these kinds of arguments have zero value.

 

[Randy Kluth]

On another forum a Christian claimed that the NT system operates through the Law of Moses, and not apart from it. And this explains why I have to seem to "split hairs" on matters of "Law and Grace." This was my response to him and to those like him who assert our need, as Christians, to obey the Law of Moses....

In a nutshell, let me put the expiration of the OT legal system in an example. The Law of Moses was like a marriage covenant made with Israel. And yet God anticipated that Israel would fail that covenant.

He provided restitution under that system, to maintain it in perpetuity because God's marriage covenant was designed to be eternal. And yet, God also knew that the means of correcting Israel's failures would overload the system itself and that it would collapse as failure became epidemic in the nation and beyond repair.

And so, God also anticipated the need to repair and replace the entire system with a system that would never fail. We call that system "Christian Grace" today.

The New Covenant sustains the marriage God originally started with Israel, but is not contingent upon repairing the Law as a Covenant system. As the New Covenant came into play, all of the repairs loaded into the OT system would no longer need to be applied.

Temple ritual, and priestly sacrifices, would no longer be required when the Marriage Covenant had been completely secured for all eternity. The system of Christ's Grace would replace the Law as that eternal system.

This process is shown as anticipated by God in the Prophets. God showed the Prophets that Israel would suffer a Divorce under the system of Law. The entire nation would fall into apostasy, with a few exceptions, and the entire temple system would be taken away, as well as their place in the land of their marriage to God.

But this Marriage was repaired by a restoration of the Law (Zerubbabel), and not by the mechanics of the Law itself, since appeasement to God was no longer possible under a system the superstructure of which had completely collapsed. No sacrifice could be made under a temple system when the temple had been completely destroyed.

And so, God by grace had the temple rebuilt, showing that a catastrophic failure of the Law could be repaired and restored. However, this merely anticipated the coming system of Grace through Christ, when he would repair God's marriage with Israel by inserting himself as the "restored temple."