The Ones Who Are Left…

[Truth7t7]

The consummation happened at Pentecost, and as far as Jesus not making evil and abomination and such…… He told the unconverted point blank it was because of the fact that they knew not the day of there visitation that their house was left to them desolate.

Luke 23:28 KJV
[28] But Jesus turning unto them said, Daughters of Jerusalem, weep not for me, but weep for yourselves, and for your children.

I disagree, the "Consummation" or "Ultimate End" hasn't taken place, its a future event that takes place at the second coming Jesus Christ in fire and final judgement (The End)

This "Future" figure will be present on earth making (Abomination & Desolation) to the (Consummation) or (The Ultimate End) "Future" Event(s) Unfulfilled

Merriam-Webster
Definition of consummation

1: the act of consummating the consummation of a contract by mutual signature specifically : the consummating of a marriage
2: the ultimate end

Daniel 9:27KJV
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

(The Consummation Or Ultimate End)

2 Peter 3:10-12KJV
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

 

[Waiting on him]

I disagree, the "Consummation" or "Ultimate End" hasn't taken place, its a future event that takes place at the second coming Jesus Christ in fire and final judgement (The End)

This "Future" figure will be present on earth making (Abomination & Desolation) to the (Consummation) or (The Ultimate End) "Future" Event(s) Unfulfilled

Merriam-Webster
Definition of consummation

1: the act of consummating the consummation of a contract by mutual signature specifically : the consummating of a marriage
2: the ultimate end

Daniel 9:27KJV
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

(The Consummation Or Ultimate End)

2 Peter 3:10-12KJV
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

This here is what a Jewish consummation looks like.
Genesis 24:67 KJV
[67] And Isaac brought her into his mother Sarah's tent, and took Rebekah, and she became his wife; and he loved her: and Isaac was comforted after his mother's death.

 

[Waiting on him]

You silly ninny noggin the Spirit of God in you is the consummation.

 

[Truth7t7]

This here is what a Jewish consummation looks like.
Genesis 24:67 KJV
[67] And Isaac brought her into his mother Sarah's tent, and took Rebekah, and she became his wife; and he loved her: and Isaac was comforted after his mother's death.

This is what God's "Consummation" looks like

(The Consummation Or Ultimate End)

2 Peter 3:10-12KJV
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

 

[Waiting on him]

This is what God's "Consummation" looks like

(The Consummation Or Ultimate End)

2 Peter 3:10-12KJV
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

This is not a corporate event… it’s been happening on an individual level for nearly two millennia.

 

[Naomi25]

How would there be christians prior to the gifting of the Holy Ghost?

Do you think Abraham was specifically called “a Christian”? Was he given the Holy Spirit as those were on/after Pentecost? But does the bible still tell us he was saved by faith? Would we therefore consider him “a brother”? Who else would we consider “a brother”?

Matthew 12:50
For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother.”

If we discount everything Jesus told us and instructed us because he was giving it to Jews who did not have the Holy Spirit and it was only for them…then we would need to discard all of it. Jesus came to break down the dividing wall between what was Jew and Gentile…and even during his ministry he was preparing and instructing his followers on how to proceed within the New Covenant his blood would ratify.

 

[Earburner]

The "he" in Daniel 9:27 below isnt Jesus Christ as you claim, as Jesus dosent make evil in abomination and desolation as seen

This "Future" figure will be present on earth making (Abomination & Desolation) to the (Consummation) or (The Ultimate End) "Future" Event(s) Unfulfilled

Merriam-Webster
Definition of consummation

1: the act of consummating the consummation of a contract by mutual signature specifically : the consummating of a marriage
2: the ultimate end

Daniel 9:27KJV
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Well, are you brave?
Though very simple, but long, can you endure the length of this study?
Let's see if it really is Jesus that is the "he" that is being describe in Daniel 9:27.

27 And he [Jesus] shall confirm the covenant with many for one week:
One prophetic week (7x1) equals 7 years.
Jesus was "confirming" the covenant, his New covenant, and was crucified when He was 33 years old in the likeness of our flesh. Three days later, He resurrected, being restored into New Life, being ALIVE.

and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease,
In the midst of the week (3.5 years), the crucifixion and death of Jesus, was the ultimate sacrifice for sin, superseding the sacrificing of animals and all the temple services, making a sure end of it, thus causing it all "to CEASE".
The words: "In the midst of the week", is saying that in the first half of a prophetic week, 3.5 years, Jesus shall finish the six works of God in Daniel 9:24, and "cause" all temple operations to be eclipsed/made void, desolate by the sacrifice of Himself.
But, we have a problem! There is still 3.5 years of that prophetic week remaining and unfulfilled. So now what?
Jesus IS ALIVE, and therefore ascended, went on up High into God's Heaven, to obtain the Gift of God's Holy Spirit for all people, who believe in Him.

and for the overspreading of abominations he [Jesus] shall make it desolate,
After the "finished" work of Christ on His Cross, the Jews continued to perform animal sacrifices and the temple services right upto 70AD. It is that point in time, that Jesus "caused" the complete end to it. HOW? Jesus said the following words, revealing that the Spirit of God and His protection, would no longer be with them.
1. Matt.23[38] Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.
2. Matt.21[43] Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation [born again Christians]** bringing forth the fruits thereof.
**Note: see the latter half of Luke.13[35] Behold, your house is left unto you desolate: and verily I say unto you,
**Ye shall not see me, until the time come when ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.
Which are those of us who preach the Gospel of God to the Jews.
Because Israel became desolate, due to the fact that the KoG (Jesus Himself) had left them, they had no longer anymore protection from God.
Therefore satan, the "strong man" entered in and brought complete and utter destruction, through the invasion of the Roman Commander Titus and the people (army) with him in 70AD.
Meanwhile, since Pentecost, Jesus was now with the Apostles through His Holy Spirit, and WAS STILL confirming His New Covenant through them for the remainder of "the midst of that prophetic week of 3.5 years, after Pentecost.

even until the consummation,
Though there are many choices for defining this word, such as the end of an event or the end of time, I perceive that the context should be allowed to do the defining. In this instance, it does means "completion", but from the perspective of the latter context, being that of the following:
and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
The clue in this part of the scripture, is the word "determined", thus defining the word "completion". What was it that was determined by God, that it should be consummated/completed or "finished"?
Ans. All of God's six (6) works in Daniel 9:24. Not a single one can remain unfinished, otherwise nothing of Daniel 9:24 would be "finished", consummated/completed.
Now, let's take ALL of that which was "determined" by God, and allow the words to take action in its manifestation:
"...and that determined "shall be poured..."
What was to be "poured"?
Ans. That which was determined by God in Daniel 9:24.
What was that?
Ans. The six works of God through Christ.

Where and and on whom were the "six works of God" to be "poured" in the world?
Ans. upon the desolate.
WHO were the desolate?
Acts.10[45] And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Again- Who were/are the desolate?
All and everyone who does not have the spirit of Christ, are none of His, and therefore are desolate, being void of God. Romans 8:8-9

 

[VictoryinJesus]

You are implying that this scripture somehow symbolically has something to do with our resurrection?
This is applicable to a double minded person who needs to be humble and walk in the spirit, not in the flesh.

You said “you are implying that this scripture somehow has something to do with our resurrection?” Maybe I misunderstood but what is “and He will lift you up” if not resurrect? Like the verse in James where a prayer of faith will save the sick and God will raise them up on the last day? Or like
Mark 9:20-27 And they brought him unto him: and when he saw him, straightway the spirit tare him; and he fell on the ground, and wallowed foaming. Jude 1:13 And he asked his father, How long is it ago since this came unto him? And he said, Of a child. [22] And ofttimes it has cast him into the fire, and into the waters, to destroy him: but if you can do any thing, have compassion on us, and help us. [23] Jesus said unto him, If you can believe, all things are possible to him that believes. 24] And straightway the father of the child cried out, and said with tears, Lord, I believe; help my unbelief. [25] When Jesus saw that the people came running together, he rebuked the foul spirit, saying unto him, Thou dumb and deaf spirit, (those dumb will speak, and those deaf will hear?) I charge thee, come out of him, and enter no more into him. [26] And the spirit cried, and rent him sore, and came out of him: and he was as one dead; insomuch that many said, He is dead. [27] But Jesus took him by the hand, and lifted him up; and he arose.

I get that might sound stupid or like making something out of nothing but to me, it is significant. I’m in no way trying to say Jesus Christ didn’t do this miracle or that it’s only symbolic but only that He was a master teacher in all things. Where he only did what He saw His Father (who is Spirit) doing. Not random miracles because he felt like it but what He saw His Father(who is Spirit) doing…

1) that ‘the child’ was being tossed between fire and water; double minded tossed, unstable in all his ways.

2) the child was as one dead, so much so they cried “he is dead”!

3) it is Christ that took him by the hand and lifted the child up, and he arose. Arose up out of sleep, as one dead? Lifted up out from sleep by who? Oddly the father is the one who cries “help our unbelief” the child foaming on the ground, tossed between two: fire and water…doesn’t ask. What is “fire” what is “water” to destroy him? Like in James it is the father cries where the conversation is with the father who says to Christ: if you are able to do all things, Lord.
The text you said has nothing to do with the resurrection to me sure sounds like a promise of Life in and Christ will lift you up.

"Humble yourselves in the presence of the Lord, and He will exalt you." NASB

Humble yourselves in the presence of the Lord, and He will exalt you.” Where you highlighted “in the presence” 1 Thessalonians 2:19-20 For what is our hope, or joy, or crown of rejoicing? Are not even you in the presence of our Lord Jesus Christ at his coming? [20] For you are our glory and joy.

for you are our crown of rejoicing in the presence of His coming…sounds like lifted up, resurrection into Life to me. Especially with
Revelation 3:11 Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown.
Except Christ said no man takes it from Him, but He lays it down of Himself and has the power to take it up again.

 

[Waiting on him]

Was he given the Holy Spirit as those were on/after Pentecost?

No.
If I was to take this position I’d have to believe that Abraham received the Spirit of God based on a system of works. The Spirit was gifted as a product of the works of Christ.

Do you think Abraham was specifically called “a Christian”?

I don’t believe so, this word doesn’t show up till after the the resurrection of Christ.

 

[Truth7t7]

Well, are you brave?
Though very simple, but long, can you endure the length of this study?
Let's see if it really is Jesus that is the "he" that is being describe in Daniel 9:27.

27 And he [Jesus] shall confirm the covenant with many for one week:
One prophetic week (7x1) equals 7 years.
Jesus was "confirming" the covenant, his New covenant, and was crucified when He was 33 years old in the likeness of our flesh. Three days later, He resurrected, being restored into New Life, being ALIVE.

and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease,
In the midst of the week (3.5 years), the crucifixion and death of Jesus, was the ultimate sacrifice for sin, superseding the sacrificing of animals and all the temple services, making a sure end of it, thus causing it all "to CEASE".
The words: "In the midst of the week", is saying that in the first half of a prophetic week, 3.5 years, Jesus shall finish the six works of God in Daniel 9:24, and "cause" all temple operations to be eclipsed/made void, desolate by the sacrifice of Himself.
But, we have a problem! There is still 3.5 years of that prophetic week remaining and unfulfilled. So now what?
Jesus IS ALIVE, and therefore ascended, went on up High into God's Heaven, to obtain the Gift of God's Holy Spirit for all people, who believe in Him.

and for the overspreading of abominations he [Jesus] shall make it desolate,
After the "finished" work of Christ on His Cross, the Jews continued to perform animal sacrifices and the temple services right upto 70AD. It is that point in time, that Jesus "caused" the complete end to it. HOW? Jesus said the following words, revealing that the Spirit of God and His protection, would no longer be with them.
1. Matt.23[38] Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.
2. Matt.21[43] Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation [born again Christians]** bringing forth the fruits thereof.
**Note: see the latter half of Luke.13[35] Behold, your house is left unto you desolate: and verily I say unto you,
**Ye shall not see me, until the time come when ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.
Which are those of us who preach the Gospel of God to the Jews.
Because Israel became desolate, due to the fact that the KoG (Jesus Himself) had left them, they had no longer anymore protection from God.
Therefore satan, the "strong man" entered in and brought complete and utter destruction, through the invasion of the Roman Commander Titus and the people (army) with him in 70AD.
Meanwhile, since Pentecost, Jesus was now with the Apostles through His Holy Spirit, and WAS STILL confirming His New Covenant through them for the remainder of "the midst of that prophetic week of 3.5 years, after Pentecost.

even until the consummation,
Though there are many choices for defining this word, such as the end of an event or the end of time, I perceive that the context should be allowed to do the defining. In this instance, it does means "completion", but from the perspective of the latter context, being that of the following:
and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
The clue in this part of the scripture, is the word "determined", thus defining the word "completion". What was it that was determined by God, that it should be consummated/completed or "finished"?
Ans. All of God's six (6) works in Daniel 9:24. Not a single one can remain unfinished, otherwise nothing of Daniel 9:24 would be "finished", consummated/completed.
Now, let's take ALL of that which was "determined" by God, and allow the words to take action in its manifestation:
"...and that determined "shall be poured..."
What was to be "poured"?
Ans. That which was determined by God in Daniel 9:24.
What was that?
Ans. The six works of God through Christ.

Where and and on whom were the "six works of God" to be "poured" in the world?
Ans. upon the desolate.
WHO were the desolate?
Acts.10[45] And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Again- Who were/are the desolate?
All and everyone who does not have the spirit of Christ, are none of His, and therefore are desolate, being void of God. Romans 8:8-9

Not one word you have posted changes the fact of scripture below, Jesus dosent make abomination and desolation, the bad guy seen is present on earth until (The End) "Consummation"

This "Future" figure will be present on earth making (Abomination & Desolation) to the (Consummation) or (The Ultimate End) "Future" Event(s) Unfulfilled

Merriam-Webster
Definition of consummation

1: the act of consummating the consummation of a contract by mutual signature specifically : the consummating of a marriage
2: the ultimate end

Daniel 9:27KJV
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

(The Consummation Or Ultimate End)

2 Peter 3:10-12KJV
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

Maybe I misunderstood but what is “and He will lift you up” if not resurrect

Remember the context of that scripture. Speaking of being double-minded, talking the talk but not walking the walk.
Very simply, having put all our faith in Him, when we stumble and fall, He lifts us up. This happens all through our lives.
That is different than being raised up on the last day.

In Mark 9:20-27, Jesus casts a demon from a child. The child is exhausted - half dead or dead and Jesus either revitalizes him or brings him to life. That is not a resurrection, it is a resuscitation. In the reserrection, we receive new bodies.

Where you highlighted “in the presence” 1 Thessalonians 2:19-20 For what is our hope, or joy, or crown of rejoicing? Are not even you in the presence of our Lord Jesus Christ at his coming? [20] For you are our glory and joy.

God is omnipresent for every event. We are often aware of His presence..We are in Christ . When two gather together in His name He is there. And yes, when we are resurrected, we will be in His presense

 

[Earburner]

Not one word you have posted changes the fact of scripture below, Jesus dosent make abomination and desolation, the bad guy seen is present on earth until (The End) Consummation

Satan, who is the most subtil beast in the field, is going to tell you that he is coming,
But has no intention of showing up.

Not one word you have posted changes the fact of scripture below, Jesus dosent make abomination and desolation, the bad guy seen is present on earth until (The End) "Consummation"

This "Future" figure will be present on earth making (Abomination & Desolation) to the (Consummation) or (The Ultimate End) "Future" Event(s) Unfulfilled

Merriam-Webster
Definition of consummation

1: the act of consummating the consummation of a contract by mutual signature specifically : the consummating of a marriage
2: the ultimate end

Daniel 9:27KJV
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

(The Consummation Or Ultimate End)

2 Peter 3:10-12KJV
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

I see that you are a literalist.
So then, you have nothing to say about the Messiah's first appearance, as shown in Daniel 9[25] Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince
shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.
[26] And after threescore and two [62]weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself:...

What does the first part of verse 26 mean to you?

 

[Truth7t7]

Satan, who is the most subtil beast in the field, is going to tell you that he is coming,
But has no intention of showing up.

I see that you are a literalist.
So then, you have nothing to say about the Messiah's first appearance, as shown in Daniel 9[25] Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince
shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.
[26] And after threescore and two [62]weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself:...

What does the first part of verse 26 mean to you?

Daniel 9:25 dosent speak of a first appearance of Jesus Christ

It speaks of a future Jerusalem that will be built wall/street to the prophesied Messiah as seen in the Old Testament, I believe around the temple mount, in preparation for his return, and yes this will be the future (Little Horn/Antichrist) that will be present on this earth making abomination and desolation until the consummation (The End)

It's my belief that this building around the temple mount will stir the world's "Muslims" troublous times, as this is a holy site in their religion, their armies will surround Jerusalem as the building stops, Messiah cut off

Daniel 9:25-26KJV
25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.
26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

 

[Earburner]

A. 26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself:
B. and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined

A. If you do not see this as being the Lord's Crucifixion, how then shall he be "cut off" upon His return??

B. If you do not see this as having already taken place in 70AD by the Roman Titus, then you believe none of that is fulfilled yet??

 

[Truth7t7]

A. If you do not see this as being the Lord's Crucifixion, how then shall he be "cut off" upon His return??

B. If you do not see this as having already taken place in 70AD by the Roman Titus, then you believe none of that is fulfilled yet??

Nothing in the verse states Jesus is being cut off at his return, and Preterist 70AD fulfillment of the future event seen is a farce

Of course you disregard the word "Consummation" because it destroy's your claims of Titus in 70AD who is dead and gone, while the figure seen in Daniel 9:27 is present on earth until (The End) consummation

Merriam-Webster
Definition of consummation

1: the act of consummating the consummation of a contract by mutual signature specifically : the consummating of a marriage
2: the ultimate end

Daniel 9:27KJV
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

(The Consummation Or Ultimate End)

2 Peter 3:10-12KJV
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

 

[Naomi25]

No.
If I was to take this position I’d have to believe that Abraham received the Spirit of God based on a system of works. The Spirit was gifted as a product of the works of Christ.

I don’t believe so, this word doesn’t show up till after the the resurrection of Christ.

My point with these questions being: the bible may label ‘Christians’ a certain way after Pentecost. And it also may describe the Spirit coming upon us differently in the New Covenant. But it still teaches that salvation is fundamentally found IN faith.

Galatians 3:5-9
Does he who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you do so by works of the law, or by hearing with faith—just as Abraham “believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness”?
Know then that it is those of faith who are the sons of Abraham. And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, saying, “In you shall all the nations be blessed.” So then, those who are of faith are blessed along with Abraham, the man of faith.


We can see throughout the OT Israelites…and sometimes even the rare Gentile (Ruth) who placed their trust and faith in YHWH and it was ‘credited to them as righteousness’. We see them sometimes referred to as ‘the elect of God’.
And in the NT, before Pentecost, Jesus refers to them as “brothers”….those who “do the will of my Father”…but they are still people clearly defined as those following the teachings of Christ, as Christ himself came “to do the will of my father”.

 

[Earburner]

Nothing in the verse states Jesus is being cut off at his return, and Preterist 70AD fulfillment of the future event seen is a farce

Then I must be misunderstanding your meaning: "It's my belief that this building around the temple mount will stir the world's "Muslims" troublous times, as this is a holy site in their religion,
their armies will surround Jerusalem as the building stops, Messiah cut off"

I am assuming that you are saying, when the building of the temple stops, [then] Messiah [is] cutoff?
Am I correct in my assumption?
If so, HOW is Messiah cutoff at that time, as you say?

 

[Waiting on him]

My point with these questions being: the bible may label ‘Christians’ a certain way after Pentecost. And it also may describe the Spirit coming upon us differently in the New Covenant. But it still teaches that salvation is fundamentally found IN faith.

Galatians 3:5-9
Does he who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you do so by works of the law, or by hearing with faith—just as Abraham “believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness”?
Know then that it is those of faith who are the sons of Abraham. And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, saying, “In you shall all the nations be blessed.” So then, those who are of faith are blessed along with Abraham, the man of faith.


We can see throughout the OT Israelites…and sometimes even the rare Gentile (Ruth) who placed their trust and faith in YHWH and it was ‘credited to them as righteousness’. We see them sometimes referred to as ‘the elect of God’.
And in the NT, before Pentecost, Jesus refers to them as “brothers”….those who “do the will of my Father”…but they are still people clearly defined as those following the teachings of Christ, as Christ himself came “to do the will of my father”.

If you wish to believe Abraham was in dwelt with the Holy Spirit, then there’s probably not much more I can say.

 

[Waiting on him]

Then I must be misunderstanding your meaning: "It's my belief that this building around the temple mount will stir the world's "Muslims" troublous times, as this is a holy site in their religion,
their armies will surround Jerusalem as the building stops, Messiah cut off"

I am assuming that you are saying, when the building of the temple stops, [then] Messiah [is] cutoff?
Am I correct in my assumption?
If so, HOW is Messiah cutoff at that time, as you say?

I can hardly wait to read his answer.

 

[Truth7t7]

Then I must be misunderstanding your meaning: "It's my belief that this building around the temple mount will stir the world's "Muslims" troublous times, as this is a holy site in their religion,
their armies will surround Jerusalem as the building stops, Messiah cut off"

I am assuming that you are saying, when the building of the temple stops, [then] Messiah [is] cutoff?
Am I correct in my assumption?
If so, HOW is Messiah cutoff at that time, as you say?

Your Correct on my observation of scripture,

In the "future" they will build in Jerusalem to their awaited upon Messiah as seen in the OT, when armies surround Jerusalem and stop the building (Messiah is cut off)

It's my opinion the armies will be Muslim (people of the prince), and be responding to concerns relating to their holy site on the temple mount