The potential conceit of doctrinal individuality

[CadyandZoe]

All too often. (for shame) LOL

Very clear to me why people hate Christians.
Too many of them are completely unlovable.
Gandhi said it best.

“I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.” ― Mahatma Gandhi ​

No. Jesus said that we would be hated because they hated him.

 

[marks]

We are commanded to love. But the command to "love" isn't a command to have affection. In this case, "love" refers to beneficent action toward another person. Jesus said to love our enemies. He didn't mean "feel affection" toward them or even like them. He means, if you see an enemy thirsty, give him a drink of water, if you see an enemy hungry, give him some food, if you see an enemy hanging from a cliff, help him up. In other words, do good to all human beings.

Jesus looked at the multitudes and felt compassion towards them. I agree that love includes "beneficent action", but it's more then that, it's the desire for them to receive the benefit. It's the commitment to their well-being. It's more than a sense of duty.

Add to your faith godliness, and to godliness brotherly love, and to brotherly love, charity. This brotherly love, philadelphia, this is the affection for others which we grow in as we commit to serving them. We learn to see others as those for whom Jesus died, out of love, and desire to rescue them.

Is God's love for man a cold choice to do man good? Or is God our passionate lover, having created that which He loves?

Much love!

 

[Wynona]

Paul wrote that we should all speak the same things.

1 Corinthians 1:10

King James Version

​

10 Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.

I believe if we all simply read the Bible without any doctrinal biases and read it as if just being exposed to it for the first time, we would be more unified in our beliefs.

However, having strong beliefs shouldn't necessarily mean we have to be harsh and impatient with others. Jesus was uncompromising, but he was compassionate. Its a high calling to be both but we must be both.

 

[Wynona]

Jesus looked at the multitudes and felt compassion towards them. I agree that love includes "beneficent action", but it's more then that, it's the desire for them to receive the benefit. It's the commitment to their well-being. It's more than a sense of duty.

Add to your faith godliness, and to godliness brotherly love, and to brotherly love, charity. This brotherly love, philadelphia, this is the affection for others which we grow in as we commit to serving them. We learn to see others as those for whom Jesus died, out of love, and desire to rescue them.

Is God's love for man a cold choice to do man good? Or is God our passionate lover, having created that which He loves?

Much love!

I don't know.

Its not always possible to feel affection for your enemies. Sometimes, loving action is the only option?

 

[Wynona]

I think it can also be conceited to say that no one has absolute truth. Because that is assuming you are the wise one that sees around all the beliefs.

 

[Nancy]

I don't know.

Its not always possible to feel affection for your enemies. Sometimes, loving action is the only option?

Good question Wynona. I do so hope that your last statement is true. Think about the parable of the good Samaritan. He was just a man walking down a street, came upon a stranger, beaten, robbed and left for dead. It doesn't say if he knew the beaten man but it still did not matter because, it is what Christ would do. There are a few people who can hurt you so deeply in many ways that "loving them like a brother" just does not work. Yet, you still wouldn't leave them in the street and pass them by.

 

[marks]

I don't know.

Its not always possible to feel affection for your enemies. Sometimes, loving action is the only option?

If you don't feel it, you don't feel it, and that's how you are right now. And it's better to do the right thing even if you don't feel it.

I find that feelings follow after choices and values. When I choose to love and serve someone, I learn to see that is good in them, even if it's just a sliver of who they are. Just like the Nazi deathcamp guards who learned to dehumanize their prisoners.

Much love!

 

[CadyandZoe]

Jesus looked at the multitudes and felt compassion towards them. I agree that love includes "beneficent action", but it's more then that, it's the desire for them to receive the benefit. It's the commitment to their well-being. It's more than a sense of duty.

Add to your faith godliness, and to godliness brotherly love, and to brotherly love, charity. This brotherly love, philadelphia, this is the affection for others which we grow in as we commit to serving them. We learn to see others as those for whom Jesus died, out of love, and desire to rescue them.

Is God's love for man a cold choice to do man good? Or is God our passionate lover, having created that which He loves?

Much love!

Is God's love for man a cold choice to do man good? Or is God our passionate lover, having created that which He loves?

I'm not sure it is either one, but I take your point about the difference between duty and actual love.

 

[CadyandZoe]

Paul wrote that we should all speak the same things.

1 Corinthians 1:10​

​

King James Version​

​

​

10 Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.

I believe if we all simply read the Bible without any doctrinal biases and read it as if just being exposed to it for the first time, we would be more unified in our beliefs.

However, having strong beliefs shouldn't necessarily mean we have to be harsh and impatient with others. Jesus was uncompromising, but he was compassionate. Its a high calling to be both but we must be both.

I understand and agree. What would Paul do if he discovered a deceiver in the midst of a congregation?

 

[St. SteVen]

No. Jesus said that we would be hated because they hated him.

That's true as well.
But why didn't Gandhi say this?

“I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.” ― Mahatma Gandhi ​

 

[CadyandZoe]

That's true as well.
But why didn't Gandhi say this?

“I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.” ― Mahatma Gandhi ​

Who knows? Why should I care what Gandhi thinks? I don't care what he thinks.

 

[amadeus]

I think it can also be conceited to say that no one has absolute truth. Because that is assuming you are the wise one that sees around all the beliefs.

Speaking thusly of Absolute Truth [AT] reminds me of our dear friend and brother @bbyrd009. He spoke frequently of the ATs that he believed so many held, with no willingness to even consider the possibility of error on their part. God has AT. Jesus certainly has AT [and had AT as a man on planet Earth], but who among us has ATs with no beliefs among them might be in error according to God? Who but God is able to sort the ATs from the mistakenly held beliefs?

Help us dear Lord!

 

[St. SteVen]

Who knows? Why should I care what Gandhi thinks? I don't care what he thinks.

A person wrapped up in themselves makes a pretty small package.

 

[CadyandZoe]

A person wrapped up in themselves makes a pretty small package.

More sophistry?

Gandhi was a liar. He claimed to know Christ, but he didn't.

Why did you decide to raise doubt here?

James 1:5-7
5 But if any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask of God, who gives to all generously and without reproach, and it will be given to him. 6 But he must ask in faith without any doubting, for the one who doubts is like the surf of the sea, driven and tossed by the wind. 7 For that man ought not to expect that he will receive anything from the Lord,

 

[CadyandZoe]

Everybody believes they have the truth but for some reason they all disagree.

First of all, let's not be surprised by surety when we see it. Anyone who searches out a matter and finds the answer will most certainly "have the truth." And once having attained the truth, only a fool would doubt what he knows to be true.

 

[Patrick1966]

I believe if we all simply read the Bible without any doctrinal biases and read it as if just being exposed to it for the first time, we would be more unified in our beliefs.

That was exactly my approach after leaving the Catholic Church 8 years ago.

 

[Patrick1966]

Everybody believes they have the truth but for some reason they all disagree.

As Jesus said, he came to bring division, not unity. Even his followers squabble amongst themselves because they lack all the facts. What's the lesson? Without God we are lost.

 

[Patrick1966]

S

When Jesus said that do you think he was referring to 'doctrinal divisions? Or maybe something else?

I think he was referring to his introduction of new ideas such as loving one's enemy, turning the cheek, etc., but he was obviously aware that disunity would develop over doctrinal differences between even his followers.

 

[Patrick1966]

Maybe you should. Most people have an unfavorable opinion of Christians. You're proof! Calling people liars is totally Christ-like.

By the way, welcome to this community. I have that particular poster, along with MANY others, on "ignore". I believe you'll harvest and produce better fruits by shaking the dust and using that feature.

 

[Wrangler]

Such statements are usually used to win a debate.

I truly believe you are making this far too complicated. There are 2 basic points:

• evangelism
• debate among saints

Regarding reaching out to unbelievers, I subscribe to the pragmatic view of Paul, to "be all things to all people" so some might be saved.

Regarding rhetoric in debate among saints, that is a deep pool, eh?

FYI, I reached out to a young Christian couple over the weekend. My agenda is fellowship and practical mentorship. Such relationship building and aiding in their walk with Christ is individualized. That is, there is no set approach. I hope to live life with them, loving them as Christ taught. In yesterday's sermon, the pastor made a point to this effect.

It's not all about theory but putting to work the prompting of the Spirit.