The Rapture Is in Olivet Discourse

[GEN2REV]

Because your only real counter move there is to start attacking the word 'Day', I will corner you by providing the definition of the original Biblical language for 'Day' before you do.

day.
ἡμέρᾳ (hēmera)
Noun - Dative Feminine Singular
Strong's Greek 2250: A day, the period from sunrise to sunset.

 

[Truth7t7]

Could be why in this parable of what makes up the whole of the kingdom of heaven, it is "hid" in 3 measures of meal.

Matthew 13:33 Another parable spake he unto them; The kingdom of heaven is like unto leaven, which a woman took, and hid in three measures of meal, till the whole was leavened.

Care to explain it or apply it?

I'd say it is Christ's the firstfruits at the pre great tribulation rapture event

Then those that are Christ's at His coming

Then those that remain loyal to Jesus after Satan last rebellion for when after the Great White Throne Judgment He gives the kingdom back to the Father because He is done.

A pre-trib rapture of the church to heaven is found no place in scripture

It's the invention of John N. Darby 1830's and promoted by C.I. Scofield reference bible 1909 better known as dispensationalism

 

[Christ4Me]

No I don't because if Pre-Trib Rapture is not a concept taught in scripture, then it's not in the Olivet Discourse anyway and this entire thread has no grounds for being discussed at all.

Since Jesus Himself states FIVE TIMES in the book of John that He will not return until the "Last Day" of the world for His people, your thread has no leg left to stand upon.

John 6:39-40
John 6:44
John 6:54
John 12:48

SIX TIMES in the book of John, we are told that He is coming on the "Last Day."
(An additional verse not spoken by Jesus = John 11:24)

You have to do a pretty elaborate dance to work your way outta that one, but I've been at this long enough to know that you certainly will do one. I could almost write out your response and match it to what you will post.

Let's see.

Actually, most of those references did not say about His "return" but how He will raise us up in the last day.

I apply them to the rapture & those at His coming as the order is for how Christ will raise us up in.

1 Corinthians 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

So those abiding in Christ will be raised up in their last day and those that are Christ's at His coming will be raised up in their last day. Then comes the end which is the Great White Throne Judgment when Satan is thrown in the lake of fire.

Now for this one reference that is the odd man out below.

John 12:48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

I am not sure why you had chosen that one other than the last day being in that verse, but that is referring to the Great White Throne Judgment.

 

[Christ4Me]

A pre-trib rapture of the church to heaven is found no place in scripture

I see it just fine, thanks to Jesus Christ.

It's the invention of John N. Darby 1830's and promoted by C.I. Scofield reference bible 1909 better known as dispensationalism

NOPE, SORRY: DARBY DID NOT INVENT THE PRE-TRIB RAPTURE

Quoting ~~~"There is the interesting case of John Asgill (1659–1738), who wrote a book in 1700 about the possibility of translation (i.e. rapture) without seeing death. As a result of writing this book, Asgill was removed from the Irish parliament in 1703 and then from the English parliament in 1707. “His book had been examined and pronounced blasphemous, and had been burnt by order of the House without his having been heard in its defense.” Asgill spent the last thirty years of his life in prison because of his book on the rapture. This would tend to throw cold water on anyone desiring to make known their thoughts on the rapture. ~~~ End of Quote

 

[Oseas]

I see it just fine, thanks to Jesus Christ.

NOPE, SORRY: DARBY DID NOT INVENT THE PRE-TRIB RAPTURE

Quoting ~~~"There is the interesting case of John Asgill (1659–1738), who wrote a book in 1700 about the possibility of translation (i.e. rapture) without seeing death. As a result of writing this book, Asgill was removed from the Irish parliament in 1703 and then from the English parliament in 1707. “His book had been examined and pronounced blasphemous, and had been burnt by order of the House without his having been heard in its defense.” Asgill spent the last thirty years of his life in prison because of his book on the rapture. This would tend to throw cold water on anyone desiring to make known their thoughts on the rapture. ~~~ End of Quote

There will be WAR against the red Dragon and his angels.
And the great red Dragon will be cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceives the whole world: he and his angels will be cast out with him into the earth, then a loud voice will be heard: Now is come salvation, and strength, and the KINGDOM of our GOD, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night. And they overcame the Dragon, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they will love not their lives unto the death. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth(Israel) and of the sea (all the nations or peoples, and nations, and multitudes of all tongues) for the Devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

The Dragon will be cast unto the earth, and he will persecute the woman - that is the Church of the LORD which is clothed with the sun-the Greater Light-JESUS, and the moon under her feet-the Lesser Light-the Holy Spirit, - which brought forth the man child. But to the woman will be given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is/will be nourished for a time, and times, and half a time (1.260 days or 3 years and half - 42 months), from the face of the serpent. The serpent - the Devil - the red Dragon - will cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman - the Church of the LORD - , that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood. And the earth-the true Israel-144K- will help the woman -the true Church of the LORD-, and the earth -true nation of Israel-144K- will open her mouth, and will swallow up the flood which the Dragon will cast out of his mouth. And the Dragon will be wrathed with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Revelation 15:v.13-16
13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the Dragon, and out of the mouth of the Beast -Beast of sea-Revelation 13:v.5-, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.

14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great Day of God Almighty.

16 And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.

15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.

 

[Christ4Me]

There will be WAR against the red Dragon and his angels.
And the great red Dragon will be cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceives the whole world: he and his angels will be cast out with him into the earth, then a loud voice will be heard: Now is come salvation, and strength, and the KINGDOM of our GOD, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night. And they overcame the Dragon, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they will love not their lives unto the death. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth(Israel) and of the sea (all the nations or peoples, and nations, and multitudes of all tongues) for the Devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

Thank you for sharing but I'd apply this comment from your quote differently.

When the Bridegroom comes and receives those abiding in Him to the Marriage Supper in Heaven, the doors are shut for why the accuser of our brethren are shut out now from accusing us day and night before God. This is a time of celebration for why the feats will be held in sincerity & in truth without that Liar there any more.

Now shut out from Heaven and cast down, woe to the remaining inhabitants of earth for he has great wrath knowing he has little time left; hence the coming great tribulation.

 

[Oseas]

Thank you for sharing but I'd apply this comment from your quote differently.

When the Bridegroom comes and receives those abiding in Him to the Marriage Supper in Heaven, the doors are shut for why the accuser of our brethren are shut out now from accusing us day and night before God. This is a time of celebration for why the feats will be held in sincerity & in truth without that Liar there any more.
Now shut out from Heaven and cast down, woe to the remaining inhabitants of earth for he has great wrath knowing he has little time left; hence the coming great tribulation.

According the Word of GOD-the Word is GOD- the celebration of the Marriage Supper will be after the War against the Dragon-Revelation 12- not before, as you are imagining. Didn't you read? Revelation 12:v.9-10 -

9 The great Dragon was cast out (AFTER THE WAR AGAINST HIM AND HIS MESSENGERS), that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his messengers were cast out with him.
10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now (yeah, Now, after the battle against the red Dragon), is come salvation, and strength, and the KINGDOM of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

Revelation 11:v.15 - The kingdoms OF THIS WORLD are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

1 Corinthians 11:v.24-27
The END cometh, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to GOD, even the Father; when he shall have PUT DOWN all rule and all authority and power.
25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
You and who thinks like you should already knew of this;

If the trumpet give an uncertain sound, who shall prepare himself to the battle? 1 Cor.14:v.8

 

[Enoch111]

A pre-trib rapture of the church to heaven is found no place in scripture...

That is a nonsensical and biased statement since by definition the Resurrection/Rapture must take place before the Tribulation or any divine judgments. As to introducing various personalities into the discussion, that is is mere deflection.

 

[Truth7t7]

That is a nonsensical and biased statement since by definition the Resurrection/Rapture must take place before the Tribulation or any divine judgments. As to introducing various personalities into the discussion, that is is mere deflection.

By all means, post scripture that shows your pre-trib rapture, waiting?

 

[Christ4Me]

According the Word of GOD-the Word is GOD- the celebration of the Marriage Supper will be after the War against the Dragon -Revelation 12- not before, as you are imagining. Didn't you read? Revelation 12:v.9-10 -

9 The great Dragon was cast out (AFTER THE WAR AGAINST HIM AND HIS MESSENGERS), that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his messengers were cast out with him.
10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now (yeah, Now, after the battle against the red Dragon), is come salvation, and strength, and the KINGDOM of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

There is nothing in your quoted reference that says the Marriage Supper is after that war on earth when he is cast out to earth to start a war.

Indeed, the devil is cast out from Heaven from continuing his accusations against the brethren whose home is in Heaven because the rapture has taken place for why he was cast out. The devil was shut out so the Marriage Supper will be held without him around accusing the brethren.

Note that this war is in Heaven for why and how the devil was cast to the earth for the devil to start that war on the earth after the rapture event.

Revelation 12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, 8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. 9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night. 11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

That verse 12 testifies of the raptured saints rejoicing in Heaven as dwelling in them and woe to the remaining inhabitants of the earth because the devil will be waging war on all those unrepentant saints & former believers that are left behind for not being ready nor willing to go.

13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.

 

[Truth7t7]

There is nothing in your quoted reference that says the Marriage Supper is after that war on earth when he is cast out to earth to start a war.

Indeed, the devil is cast out from Heaven from continuing his accusations against the brethren whose home is in Heaven because the rapture has taken place for why he was cast out. The devil was shut out so the Marriage Supper will be held without him around accusing the brethren.

Note that this war is in Heaven for why and how the devil was cast to the earth for the devil to start that war on the earth after the rapture event.

Revelation 12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, 8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. 9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night. 11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

That verse 12 testifies of the raptured saints rejoicing in Heaven as dwelling in them and woe to the remaining inhabitants of the earth because the devil will be waging war on all those unrepentant saints & former believers that are left behind for not being ready nor willing to go.

13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.

Verse 12 does no such thing as you claim it represent the saints in a pre-trib rapture to heaven, there isnt even a suggestion of such

 

[Christ4Me]

Verse 12 does no such thing as you claim it represent the saints in a pre-trib rapture to heaven, there isnt even a suggestion of such

May I suggest that when you pray tonight, ask the Lord if you are missing something in the scripture.

As it is, if I was not rightly dividing the word of truth, then where is yours to tell me what is being written?

Why was the accuser of our brethren cast down which is what the devil is doing right now at this very moment?

If it wasn't for those in Heaven to rejoice, why refer to the inhabitants of the earth as if those remaining are about to get it from the devil?

 

[Enoch111]

By all means, post scripture that shows your pre-trib rapture, waiting?

Show me where "the Tribulation" is mentioned in 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18. Or in John 14:1-3. Or any other Rapture passage.

 

[GEN2REV]

Actually, most of those references did not say about His "return" but how He will raise us up in the last day.

I apply them to the rapture & those at His coming as the order is for how Christ will raise us up in.

1 Corinthians 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

So those abiding in Christ will be raised up in their last day and those that are Christ's at His coming will be raised up in their last day. Then comes the end which is the Great White Throne Judgment when Satan is thrown in the lake of fire.

Now for this one reference that is the odd man out below.

John 12:48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

I am not sure why you had chosen that one other than the last day being in that verse, but that is referring to the Great White Throne Judgment.

No. All those verses are speaking of the very last day of the world. God's Day of Wrath. Jesus returns and raises those He raises and then all hell comes down on the entire world and those who are not saved - in a manner of speaking.

It doesn't refer to one's own personal last day on earth.

 

[Christ4Me]

No. All those verses are speaking of the very last day of the world. God's Day of Wrath. Jesus returns and raises those He raises and then all hell comes down on the entire world and those who are not saved - in a manner of speaking.

It doesn't refer to one's own personal last day on earth.

Explain why it is written;

1 Corinthians 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

23 But every man in his own order: <--- order? There is an order in this resurrection business?

Christ the firstfruits; <---- note plural of firstfruits as it cannot be Christ only. Christ at His appearing as the Bridegroom?

afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. <---- easy one for the coming of the King of kings.

How do you apply that verse to mean?

 

[Truth7t7]

Show me where "the Tribulation" is mentioned in 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18. Or in John 14:1-3. Or any other Rapture passage.

The main scripture used by supporters of the (Pre-Trib Rapture) is 1 Thess 4:15-17 below, this is nothing more than the (Second Coming) (Last Day) resurrection, not a (Pre-Trib Rapture), don't be deceived

1. Is a resurrection of the believer seen in 1 Thess 4:15-17 below, 100% Yes!

2. Does this resurrection take place on the (Last Day) as Jesus Christ taught below in John 6:39-40, 100% Yes!

3. Is the (Last Day) the time of final judgement as Jesus Christ taught in John 12:48 below, 100% Yes!

Many deny the truth of Gods words below, that are simple, clear, and very easy to understand.

(THE SECOND COMING, LAST DAY RESURRECTION)

1 Thessalonians 4:15-17KJV
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

(THE LAST DAY RESURRECTION)

John 5:28-29KJV
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

John 6:39-40KJV
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

(THE LAST DAY JUDGEMENT)

John 12:48KJV
48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

 

[Truth7t7]

Show me where "the Tribulation" is mentioned in 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18. Or in John 14:1-3. Or any other Rapture passage.

The scripture below is nothing more than a promise of the New Jerusalem, the Lord Jesus will come and receive the Church to himself, immediately after the tribulation

No pre-trib rapture of the church to heaven is seen in the scripture below, its not even suggested

John 14:1-3KJV
1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.
2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

 

[Truth7t7]

Explain why it is written;

1 Corinthians 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

23 But every man in his own order: <--- order? There is an order in this resurrection business?

Christ the firstfruits; <---- note plural of firstfruits as it cannot be Christ only. Christ at His appearing as the Bridegroom?

afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. <---- easy one for the coming of the King of kings.

How do you apply that verse to mean?

The scripture is very simple and easy to understand

When Jesus Christ returns, the resurrection and glorified body is received, death is swallowed up in victory (Then Cometh The End)

You dont want to see the simplicity of scripture, because it stands in the way of your teaching a pre-trib rapture is seen, when it's not

 

[Christ4Me]

The scripture is very simple and easy to understand

When Jesus Christ returns, the resurrection and glorified body is received, death is swallowed up in victory (Then Cometh The End)

You dont want to see the simplicity of scripture, because it stands in the way of your teaching a pre-trib rapture is seen, when it's not

I reckon we are disagreeing then since you are unable or unwilling to address my question regarding that plainness of scripture.

Explain why it is written;

1 Corinthians 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

23 But every man in his own order:

Christ the firstfruits;

afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

How do you apply those 2 verses to mean?

 

[GEN2REV]

Explain why it is written;

1 Corinthians 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

23 But every man in his own order: <--- order? There is an order in this resurrection business?

Christ the firstfruits; <---- note plural of firstfruits as it cannot be Christ only. Christ at His appearing as the Bridegroom?

afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. <---- easy one for the coming of the King of kings.

How do you apply that verse to mean?

Verse 24-25: Then cometh the end, when He shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when He shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. For He must reign, till He hath put all enemies under His feet.
1 Corinthians 15:24-25

Boy, that really backfired on ya.

Not much of a Pre-Trib Rapture verse there. What happened to the Trib part?

Are you sure you're not new to this?