The Rapture Is in Olivet Discourse

[GEN2REV]

You beat me to it, Truth.

Something told me I'd better read the verses around those that were posted.

Sure enough ... there it was.

 

[Truth7t7]

I reckon we are disagreeing then since you are unable or unwilling to address my question regarding that plainness of scripture.

Explain why it is written;

1 Corinthians 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

23 But every man in his own order:

Christ the firstfruits;

afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

How do you apply those 2 verses to mean?

I Reckon You Are Quoting (The End) And Not A Pre-Trib Rapture!

As scripture clearly teaches below in 1 Corinthinas 15:23-24 , when Jesus Christ returns then comes (The End)

Many disregard (Then Cometh The End) as they desire to see a mortal Millennial Kingdom on earth, after the coming of Jesus Christ

Afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. Then cometh the end, not a Millennial Kingdom on this earth as many falsely claim

(Then Cometh The End)

(Death Is Swallowed Up In Victory)

1 Corinthians 15:21-26 & 51-54KJV
21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

 

[farouk]

I Reckon You Are Quoting (The End) And Not A Pre-Trib Rapture!

As scripture clearly teaches below in 1 Corinthinas 15:23-24 , when Jesus Christ returns then comes (The End)

Many disregard (Then Cometh The End) as they desire to see a mortal Millennial Kingdom on earth, after the coming of Jesus Christ

Afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. Then cometh the end, not a Millennial Kingdom on this earth as many falsely claim

(Then Cometh The End)

(Death Is Swallowed Up In Victory)

1 Corinthians 15:21-26 & 51-54KJV
21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

Interesting v. 25 says, 'He must reign...'

 

[Desire Of All Nations]

Believers will be eating and drinking, as well as with marrying and given in marriage along other people. And when the believers are taken, note how one will be working in the field and another grinding at the mill. How can that be when the beast is waging war on the saints to kill them with the sword and with hunger because they do not have the mark of the beast to buy & sell or to even work freely?

Jesus' statements in Matt. 24:40-41 in no way references a rapture. This statement was clearly made within the context of what Rev. 3 and 12 teaches about the Philadelphians being taking to a place of safety on this planet before the Tribulation(Rev. 3:10) and the Laodiceans being made to experience the Tribulation(Rev. 3:16, 19).

As Isa. 28 says, scripture is supposed to be allowed to interpret it's own symbols. The Bible teaches in various places like Eph. 5 Rev. 12, Rev. 17, Isa. 47, and Rev. 19 that the Bible often uses the image of a woman in prophecy to symbolize a church. It is for this reason why the OT shows God repeatedly referring to His relationship with ancient Israel in a marital context. In Matt. 24:40-41, Christ is talking about churches and their works here. If you look at Isa. 47:1-2, you can see similar a very similar prophecy with the same language being used where it talks about the "daughter of Babylon" grinding at a millstone.

That is a nonsensical and biased statement since by definition the Resurrection/Rapture must take place before the Tribulation or any divine judgments. As to introducing various personalities into the discussion, that is is mere deflection.

It only seems like nonsense to you because you refuse to accept what Jesus said. God didn't "rapture" Noah off the planet before causing a worldwide flood, He didn't "rapture" Lot before destroying Sodom and Gomorrah, and He didn't "rapture" Jeremiah before Nebuchadnezzar burned Jerusalem to the ground. If Pre-Trib was biblical, there would be some OT precedents for it since the NT reinforces everything that was taught in the OT.

 

[Truth7t7]

Interesting v. 25 says, 'He must reign...'

Interesting, it say he must reign until all enemies are under his feet, and that enemy is death

Yes when Jesus returns the resurrection of all takes place (The End) as death is swallowed up in victory

 

[Christ4Me]

Verse 24-25: Then cometh the end, when He shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when He shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. For He must reign, till He hath put all enemies under His feet.
1 Corinthians 15:24-25

Boy, that really backfired on ya.

Not much of a Pre-Trib Rapture verse there. What happened to the Trib part?

Are you sure you're not new to this?

@Truth7t7

Are you sure your personal belief is not getting in the way of reading the scripture?

1 Corinthians 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. 24 Then cometh the end, when He shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when He shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. 25 For He must reign, till He hath put all enemies under His feet.

You really going to put verses 24 & 25 which is what will happen after the Great White Throne Judgement as when you will be resurrected?

Revelation 20:1-6 has those saints as described as going through the great tribulation that is being resurrected before the rest of the dead are resurrected at the Great White Throne Judgment later on which is after Satan is released from the pit for being in it for a thousand years to stage a last rebellion for a small season. Then that Great White Thorne Judgment happens when Satan is cast into the lake of fire. Revelation 20:7-20

Since the scripture testify to 2 resurrections in Revelation 20:1-20, with the first 6 verses as they that be Christ's at His coming, then where is Christ the firstfruits for the order that men shall be resurrected in?

But unless you explain why you believe the rapture before the great tribulation cannot be, you will not see the truth in His words.

There is a rapture when Christ comes as the Bridegroom before the great tribulation for why He is telling believers to be ready or else..

Then there is a resurrection when He is on earth as the King of kings with the raptured saints ( Zechariah 14:1-5 ) after the defeat of Satan & the world's armies marching against Jerusalem ( Revelation 20:1-6 ).

Then after that short rebellion by Satan for the last time after he has been released from the pit for a thousand years, Satan will be defeated and the Great White Throne Judgment will commence with Satan in the lake of fire. Revelation 20:7-20 The Great White Throne Judgment is when the rest of the dead are resurrected to be judged whether or not they go in the lake of fire. Those written in the Book of Life will not be going in the lake of fire.

 

[Christ4Me]

The main scripture used by supporters of the (Pre-Trib Rapture) is 1 Thess 4:15-17 below, this is nothing more than the (Second Coming) (Last Day) resurrection, not a (Pre-Trib Rapture), don't be deceived

@GEN2REV

Just in case the tag system does not work.

Are you sure your personal belief is not getting in the way of reading the scripture? I acknowledge the scripture above but you are misapplying it because it does not align with the scripture below.

1 Corinthians 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. 24 Then cometh the end, when He shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when He shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. 25 For He must reign, till He hath put all enemies under His feet.

You really going to put verses 24 & 25 which is what will happen after the Great White Throne Judgement as when you will be resurrected?

Revelation 20:1-6 has those saints as described as going through the great tribulation that is being resurrected before the rest of the dead are resurrected at the Great White Throne Judgment later on which is after Satan is released from the pit for being in it for a thousand years to stage a last rebellion for a small season.

Revelation 20:1And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. 2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years, 3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season. 4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Then that Great White Thorne Judgment happens when Satan is cast into the lake of fire. Revelation 20:7-15

Revelation 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, 8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. 9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them. 10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever. 11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. 13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. 14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Since the scripture testify to 2 resurrections in Revelation 20:1-15, with the first 6 verses as they that be Christ's at His coming, then where is Christ the firstfruits for the order that men shall be resurrected in?

But unless you explain why you believe the rapture before the great tribulation cannot be, you will not see the truth in His words.

There is a rapture when Christ comes as the Bridegroom before the great tribulation for why He is telling believers to be ready or else.

Then there is a resurrection when He is on earth as the King of kings with the raptured saints ( Zechariah 14:1-5 ) after the defeat of Satan & the world's armies marching against Jerusalem ( Revelation 20:1-6 ).

Zechariah 14:1Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee. 2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city. 3 Then shall the Lord go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle. 4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south. 5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the Lord my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.

Do note that Jesus comes back with the pre great tribulation raptured saints as the King of kings in setting his feet down on the Mount of Olives to defeat the world's armies in Zechariah 14:1-5 for why Satan is in the pit for a thousand years BEFORE that resurrection of saints having gone through the great tribulation; Revelation 20:1-6. That means Jesus is not meeting those saints in the air but on earth!!

Then after that short rebellion by Satan for the last time after he has been released from the pit for a thousand years, Satan will be defeated and the Great White Throne Judgment will commence with Satan in the lake of fire. Revelation 20:7-15 The Great White Throne Judgment is when the rest of the dead are resurrected to be judged whether or not they go in the lake of fire. Those written in the Book of Life will not be going in the lake of fire.

So the last day is to be applied to the order for which saints will be resurrected in their respective last day as Christ the firstfruits at the rapture before the great tribulation, and then they that be Christ's at His coming after the great tribulation and then comes the end when all the rest of the dead are resurrected to be judged at the Great White Throne Judgment.

Thanks to Jesus, I am able to align your references with the rest of the truth in His words to prove you are misapplying it to that errant conclusion. However you cannot align the scriptures I have shared with your belief because I cannot see how you can.

As it is, only God can help you see the truth in all of His words to get to the truth of the matter. I cannot do that. To Him be the credit & glory when you do see the truth.

 

[Desire Of All Nations]

Believers will be eating and drinking, as well as with marrying and given in marriage along other people. And when the believers are taken, note how one will be working in the field and another grinding at the mill. How can that be when the beast is waging war on the saints to kill them with the sword and with hunger because they do not have the mark of the beast to buy & sell or to even work freely?

Jesus' statements in Matt. 24:40-41 in no way references a rapture. This statement was clearly made within the context of what Rev. 3 and 12 teaches about the Philadelphians being taking to a place of safety on this planet before the Tribulation(Rev. 3:10, 12:14-16) and the Laodiceans being made to experience the Tribulation(Rev. 3:16, 19, 12:17).

As Isa. 28 says, scripture is supposed to be allowed to interpret it's own symbols. The Bible teaches in various places like Eph. 5 Rev. 12, Rev. 17, Isa. 47, and Rev. 19 that the image of a woman in prophecy is used to symbolize a church. It is for this reason the OT often shows God referring to His relationship with ancient Israel in a marital context. In Matt. 24:40-41, Christ is talking about 2 churches and their works here. If you look at Isa. 47:1-2, you can see similar a very similar prophecy with the same language being used where it talks about the "daughter of Babylon" grinding at a millstone.

You are also completely missing the point of the message Jesus was conveying in Matt. 24:38-39. If you look at verse 37, Christ was referencing how this world is going to be caught off guard by the Tribulation and the Second Coming due to carousing like the Pre-Flood world was caught off guard by the Flood for the same reason. That's why He told His followers to watch and be on guard in verses 42-51.

 

[Christ4Me]

Jesus' statements in Matt. 24:40-41 in no way references a rapture. This statement was clearly made within the context of what Rev. 3 and 12 teaches about the Philadelphians being taking to a place of safety on this planet before the Tribulation(Rev. 3:10) and the Laodiceans being made to experience the Tribulation(Rev. 3:16, 19).

Matthew 24:40-41 has believers working for when they are taken for why it cannot be during the great tribulation for they need the mark to buy & sell.

The Philadelphia cannot be in earth when the Lord said the hour of temptation that shall try all upon the earth; hence the mark of the beast to buy & sell in order to survive. The beats will wage war on the saints to kill them with the sword and hunger.

The Laodiceans were called to repent by buying when they cannot buy in the great tribulation. I know that this is metaphorical but that call to repent was in response to what they said that they have need of nothing... as being rich and such which no church, let alone, a saint will be like in the great tribulation and certainly not at the end of it.

As Isa. 28 says, scripture is supposed to be allowed to interpret it's own symbols. The Bible teaches in various places like Eph. 5 Rev. 12, Rev. 17, Isa. 47, and Rev. 19 that the Bible often uses the image of a woman in prophecy to symbolize a church. It is for this reason why the OT shows God repeatedly referring to His relationship with ancient Israel in a marital context. In Matt. 24:40-41, Christ is talking about churches and their works here. If you look at Isa. 47:1-2, you can see similar a very similar prophecy with the same language being used where it talks about the "daughter of Babylon" grinding at a millstone.
It only seems like nonsense to you because you refuse to accept what Jesus said. God didn't "rapture" Noah off the planet before causing a worldwide flood, He didn't "rapture" Lot before destroying Sodom and Gomorrah, and He didn't "rapture" Jeremiah before Nebuchadnezzar burned Jerusalem to the ground. If Pre-Trib was biblical, there would be some OT precedents for it since the NT reinforces everything that was taught in the OT.

Granted, since scripture cannot go against scripture, discernment & wisdom from the Lord is needed. Revelation 2:18-25 has the church warned to repent from "spiritual" fornication or else be cast into the bed of the great tribulation as He will judge the children with death by her works.

So Matthew 24:40-41 may be applied to works as you put it, but the one left behind will be why they were left behind because of their works for not being ready to go, but it gives the atmosphere that is not consistent for the believers when they are in the great tribulation when they are on the run.

 

[GEN2REV]

@GEN2REV

Just in case the tag system does not work.

Are you sure your personal belief is not getting in the way of reading the scripture? I acknowledge the scripture above but you are misapplying it because it does not align with the scripture below.

1 Corinthians 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. 24 Then cometh the end, when He shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when He shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. 25 For He must reign, till He hath put all enemies under His feet.

You really going to put verses 24 & 25 which is what will happen after the Great White Throne Judgement as when you will be resurrected?

Revelation 20:1-6 has those saints as described as going through the great tribulation that is being resurrected before the rest of the dead are resurrected at the Great White Throne Judgment later on which is after Satan is released from the pit for being in it for a thousand years to stage a last rebellion for a small season.

Revelation 20:1And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. 2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years, 3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season. 4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Then that Great White Thorne Judgment happens when Satan is cast into the lake of fire. Revelation 20:7-15

Revelation 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, 8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. 9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them. 10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever. 11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. 13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. 14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Since the scripture testify to 2 resurrections in Revelation 20:1-15, with the first 6 verses as they that be Christ's at His coming, then where is Christ the firstfruits for the order that men shall be resurrected in?

But unless you explain why you believe the rapture before the great tribulation cannot be, you will not see the truth in His words.

There is a rapture when Christ comes as the Bridegroom before the great tribulation for why He is telling believers to be ready or else.

Then there is a resurrection when He is on earth as the King of kings with the raptured saints ( Zechariah 14:1-5 ) after the defeat of Satan & the world's armies marching against Jerusalem ( Revelation 20:1-6 ).

Zechariah 14:1Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee. 2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city. 3 Then shall the Lord go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle. 4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south. 5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the Lord my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.

Do note that Jesus comes back with the pre great tribulation raptured saints as the King of kings in setting his feet down on the Mount of Olives to defeat the world's armies in Zechariah 14:1-5 for why Satan is in the pit for a thousand years BEFORE that resurrection of saints having gone through the great tribulation; Revelation 20:1-6. That means Jesus is not meeting those saints in the air but on earth!!

Then after that short rebellion by Satan for the last time after he has been released from the pit for a thousand years, Satan will be defeated and the Great White Throne Judgment will commence with Satan in the lake of fire. Revelation 20:7-15 The Great White Throne Judgment is when the rest of the dead are resurrected to be judged whether or not they go in the lake of fire. Those written in the Book of Life will not be going in the lake of fire.

So the last day is to be applied to the order for which saints will be resurrected in their respective last day as Christ the firstfruits at the rapture before the great tribulation, and then they that be Christ's at His coming after the great tribulation and then comes the end when all the rest of the dead are resurrected to be judged at the Great White Throne Judgment.

Thanks to Jesus, I am able to align your references with the rest of the truth in His words to prove you are misapplying it to that errant conclusion. However you cannot align the scriptures I have shared with your belief because I cannot see how you can.

As it is, only God can help you see the truth in all of His words to get to the truth of the matter. I cannot do that. To Him be the credit & glory when you do see the truth.

You should be raptured any day now, right? - OR it should have already happened.

What world event will cause you to believe you will not be spared the Great Trib?

Did you know that within the history of the destruction of the Temple, after Jesus' death and resurrection, that many Jews believed they were going to be saved from death by God and continued to encourage each other to wait it out while day after day people were starving to death and ultimately the Temple was overrun by Romans and everyone inside was killed by the sword and everything was burned to the ground. NONE escaped.

The only ones who escaped were the Christians who believed in Jesus; they were given a sign, prior to the Temple being surrounded, to leave the city and so escaped.

This event can be likened to the Great Tribulation in that True Bible Believing Christians have been made to understand they need to separate from the world and its ways and trust only in Jesus and His Word. Those who embrace the world and its ways (of which Pre-Trib Rapture theory is one via Hollywood and Mainstream Christian False Doctrine) will be waiting to be raptured until things are so bad they lose faith and are destroyed - because they didn't prepare themselves for the hardship to come, expecting a reprieve, they will not be ready. True Chrisitians will be saved through the Trib by their faith in God and be given help until Jesus comes back at the end or they are captured and killed by the beast system for their faith - they will be prepared for either.

There will be no rapture to save all Christians before times get unbearable for most.

 

[Truth7t7]

@Truth7t7

Are you sure your personal belief is not getting in the way of reading the scripture?

1 Corinthians 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. 24 Then cometh the end, when He shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when He shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. 25 For He must reign, till He hath put all enemies under His feet.

You really going to put verses 24 & 25 which is what will happen after the Great White Throne Judgement as when you will be resurrected?

Revelation 20:1-6 has those saints as described as going through the great tribulation that is being resurrected before the rest of the dead are resurrected at the Great White Throne Judgment later on which is after Satan is released from the pit for being in it for a thousand years to stage a last rebellion for a small season. Then that Great White Thorne Judgment happens when Satan is cast into the lake of fire. Revelation 20:7-20

Since the scripture testify to 2 resurrections in Revelation 20:1-20, with the first 6 verses as they that be Christ's at His coming, then where is Christ the firstfruits for the order that men shall be resurrected in?

But unless you explain why you believe the rapture before the great tribulation cannot be, you will not see the truth in His words.

There is a rapture when Christ comes as the Bridegroom before the great tribulation for why He is telling believers to be ready or else..

Then there is a resurrection when He is on earth as the King of kings with the raptured saints ( Zechariah 14:1-5 ) after the defeat of Satan & the world's armies marching against Jerusalem ( Revelation 20:1-6 ).

Then after that short rebellion by Satan for the last time after he has been released from the pit for a thousand years, Satan will be defeated and the Great White Throne Judgment will commence with Satan in the lake of fire. Revelation 20:7-20 The Great White Throne Judgment is when the rest of the dead are resurrected to be judged whether or not they go in the lake of fire. Those written in the Book of Life will not be going in the lake of fire.

There is one time of resurrection for all, this takes place on the (Last Day) at the Second Coming of Jesus Christ

There are (Two) resurrections on this (Last Day) the righteous are blessed to be in the (First Resurrection) to eternal life, on such the (Second) death resurrection has no power.

1.) (First) Resurrection To Life
2.) (Second) Resurrection To Damnation, The Second Death

Revelation 20:6KJV
Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

The (Last Day) Resurrection Of All Below

John 5:28-29KJV
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

John 6:39-40KJV
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

1 Corinthians 15:21-24KJV
21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

The (Last Day) Judgement

John 12:48KJV
48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

 

[Christ4Me]

You should be raptured any day now, right? - OR it should have already happened.

The times Jesus described for believers to be ready or else, is not the time of the great tribulation or the end of it.

There will be no rapture to save all Christians before times get unbearable for most.

The point of the rapture is when God will judge His House first 1 Peter 4:17.

That means those saints not abiding in Him to be ready to go ( Luke 12:40-49 & John 15:1-8 ) nor willing to go because they love this life more than Him to want to leave ( Luke 21:33-36 & Luke 14:15-24 ), will be left behind.

So not all saved believers will be going when the Bridegroom comes. 2 Corinthians 5:7-11 1 Corinthians 3:10-17 2 Peter 3:3-18

 

[Christ4Me]

There is one time of resurrection for all, this takes place on the (Last Day) at the Second Coming of Jesus Christ

There are (Two) resurrections on this (Last Day) the righteous are blessed to be in the (First Resurrection) to eternal life, on such the (Second) death resurrection has no power.

1.) (First) Resurrection To Life
2.) (Second) Resurrection To Damnation, The Second Death

Revelation 20:6KJV
Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

The (Last Day) Resurrection Of All Below

John 5:28-29KJV
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

John 6:39-40KJV
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

1 Corinthians 15:21-24KJV
21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

The (Last Day) Judgement

John 12:48KJV
48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

I understand your position, but the scripture you apply to that end, does not align with other scripture. Therefore you are not rightly dividing the word of truth.

We agree to disagree. We can hope in the Lord for the other as well as our selves that He will correct us before He or death comes.

 

[No Pre-TB]

IMHO, It’s impossible for a Pre-Tribber to see anything other than what they’ve been taught and to learn it/believe it from others on a forum. If they “see” something conflicting with their current view, it’ll be through their own study and prayer that the HS will reveal it.
If a child were to read Matthew 24, without any preconceived notions and eschatology views, they’d recognize Christ comes in the clouds and we are gathered to him. There is no other explanation except a resurrection of the dead which precedes the harpazo.

If Pre-Tribbers are so adamant to deny this, why do they use that same CH., that they say is only for Jews (though the audience was Christians apostles - no difference between Jew or Greek) that they use one taken and one is left as a go to for the rapture? The hypocrisy!

 

[Christ4Me]

IMHO, It’s impossible for a Pre-Tribber to see anything other than what they’ve been taught and to learn it/believe it from others on a forum. If they “see” something conflicting with their current view, it’ll be through their own study and prayer that the HS will reveal it.
If a child were to read Matthew 24, without any preconceived notions and eschatology views, they’d recognize Christ comes in the clouds and we are gathered to him. There is no other explanation except a resurrection of the dead which precedes the harpazo.

If Pre-Tribbers are so adamant to deny this, why do they use that same CH., that they say is only for Jews (though the audience was Christians apostles - no difference between Jew or Greek) that they use one taken and one is left as a go to for the rapture? The hypocrisy!

I can address the last day references as pertaining to the order for which the resurrection will take place; Christ the firstfruits, and then they that are Christ's at His coming, and then the Great White Throne Judgment.

One cannot say there is only one resurrection to be at the Great White Throne Judgment because they that are Christ's at His coming are resurrected before the rest of the dead are, which is later on at the Great White Throne Judgment when Satan is cast into the lake of fire. Revelation 20:1-15

That so called "first resurrection" will be after Christ defeated the world's armies and Satan is in the pit for a thousand years; which places Him on earth after that great battle as His feet will touch down on the Mount of Olives when He returns with the raptured saints. Zechariah 14:1-5

So the "first resurrection" is explained in Revelation 20:5 as not meaning the first & only resurrection as if denying the rapture event, but that this particular resurrection was to take place "first" before the rest of the dead are later on at the Great White Throne Judgment.

That also means that Jesus is not meeting "they that are Christ's at His coming" in the air when He is already on earth after having defeated the world's armies & Satan is in the pit for a thousand years.

This is why Jesus is warning saved believers to be ready or else, in the times we are living in now. Luke 12:40-49 & John 15:1-8 & Luke 21:33-36

There can be no believer that would be tempted to love this life more at the end of the great tribulation to not want to leave it Luke 14:15-24 when the beast is waging war on the saints to kill them by the sword & hunger when they need the mark to buy & sell to survive in that new world order.

Revelation 6:8 And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.

Revelation 7:7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

Revelation 13:16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads: 17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name. 18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

So the warnings applies to us now when apostasy abounds for why God is judging His House first at the rapture event as the Bridegroom before He comes back as the King of kings to judge the world in establishing His kingdom in the new heaven and new earth.

 

[Enoch111]

One cannot say there is only one resurrection to be at the Great White Throne Judgment because they that are Christ's at His coming are resurrected before the rest of the dead are, which is later on at the Great White Throne Judgment when Satan is cast into the lake of fire.

Since the Bible says that there are two resurrections, this is false. Only the resurrection of damnation (John 5:29) takes place at the Great White Throne judgment. The resurrection of the saints takes place long before that. So you are rather confused and should study this carefully.

 

[Christ4Me]

Since the Bible says that there are two resurrections, this is false. Only the resurrection of damnation (John 5:29) takes place at the Great White Throne judgment. The resurrection of the saints takes place long before that. So you are rather confused and should study this carefully.

In context; This is about the Bridegroom judging His House first; The standard of judgment raised on all the believers in verse 22 is set forth in verse 23 below.

John 5:21 For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will. 22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son: 23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.

So the sheep that hear His voice are judged according to what they have done good and those that have done evil.

24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life. 25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live. 26 For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself; 27 And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man. 8 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, 29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

There are 2 kinds of inheritance in His House; the vessel unto honor that departed from iniquity & the vessels unto dishonor that did not before the Bridegroom had come for why they were not ready. 2 Timothy 2:20-21

Again in Matthew 5:19 the least in the kingdom of heaven are those who break even the least of His commandments and teaches others so.

The least & the vessels unto dishonor are the resurrection unto damnation but that is why they are the least in the kingdom of heaven & the vessels unto dishonor, the vessels of wood & earth, that are still in His House.

This is why we call former believers & carnal believers to depart from iniquity now ( 2 Timothy 2:18-21 ) before the Bridegroom comes or else be excommunicated from the marriage supper in heaven for being workers of iniquity in Luke 13:24-30

2 Corinthians 5:7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight 8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord. 9 Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him. 10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad. 11 Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.

I understand why you had applied the resurrection unto damnation to the Great White Throne Judgment, but it does not align with scriptures here.

There is a Great White Throne Judgment, but the resurrection of damnation in context are the saints that went through the great tribulation for when they are resurrected as vessels of wood & earth in His House to serve the King of kings on earth as the least in the kingdom of Heaven.

 

[GEN2REV]

I can address the last day references as pertaining to the order for which the resurrection will take place; Christ the firstfruits, and then they that are Christ's at His coming, and then the Great White Throne Judgment.

Wrong. Last day means LAST DAY of the world; as I've already proven to you once in this thread.

day.
ἡμέρᾳ (hēmera)
Noun - Dative Feminine Singular
Strong's Greek 2250: A day, the period from sunrise to sunset.

This is the original meaning of the word used in John 6:39, 40, 44, 54; 11:24 & 12:48.

Jesus Himself makes it crystal clear 5 times in that book.

FACE IT. Scripture says so.

 

[Christ4Me]

Wrong. Last day means LAST DAY of the world; as I've already proven to you once in this thread.

day.
ἡμέρᾳ (hēmera)
Noun - Dative Feminine Singular
Strong's Greek 2250: A day, the period from sunrise to sunset.

This is the original meaning of the word used in John 6:39, 40, 44, 54; 11:24 & 12:48.

Jesus Himself makes it crystal clear 5 times in that book.

FACE IT. Scripture says so.

Scripture says something else for why you are not getting the bigger picture of how to apply that "day" rightly with the rest of scripture.

So we agree to disagree.

Thank you for sharing.

 

[GEN2REV]

So we agree to disagree.

Thank you for sharing.

You're disagreeing with God's Word, though. That's the problem.

You're not disagreeing with me.

There are no opinions of what God's Word says. It plainly states what it states.