The Rapture is Post-trib

[ewq1938]

Revelation reveals that the "second coming", when Jesus remains in the clouds, and sends His angels to gather the elect from heaven and earth happens immediately after the tribulation and before the wrath of God at the opening of the 6th seal.

Revelation also reveals that the "second advent" when Jesus sets His feet on the Mount of Olives occur at the end of wrath.

Second coming and second advent are the same thing.

 

[The Light]

I obviously understand the same language is used denoting the same event. What it doesn't show is the events happening when the seal is opened. That's where you err. You keep repeating this strawman fallacy as if it means anything. Everyone knows the 6th seal is describing the second coming. That doesn't mean it's happening right then. "How can YOU not understand this?"

The seals have not been opened yet. When the seals are opened, the event spoken of in the seal will occur.

When the 6th seal is opened, Jesus will come and remain in the clouds and send His angels to gather the elect from heaven and earth. Then all will return to heaven and there will be a great multitude in heaven just like the Word says. This coming is immediately after the tribulation and before the wrath of God.

I know this does not fit with your doctrine, but that's what will happen according to the Word. Jesus will return at the end of the trumpets for Armageddon and at the 7th trumpet and set up His kingdom on earth.

Revelation 11

15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

 

[The Light]

Second coming and second advent are the same thing.

That's what most think, but that is not the case.

In the second coming which occurs at the 6th seal, all eyes see the coming of the Lord. Jesus remains in the clouds for a harvest.

Revelation 14
14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.

15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.

16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.

In the second advent Jesus puts His feet on the Mount of Olives.

Zech 14
1 Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.

2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.

3 Then shall the Lord go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.

4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.

The second coming happens after the tribulation and before wrath at the 6th seal,
The second advent happens at the end of wrath at the end of the 7th seal which is the 7th trumpet of wrath.

 

[ewq1938]

That's what most think, but that is not the case.

It is the case because most people know English well enough to know the words have the same meaning.


Ad·vent
/ˈadˌvent/


noun

• 1. the arrival of a notable person, thing, or event: "the advent of television"
• ▪ the first season of the Christian church year, leading up to Christmas and including the four preceding Sundays.
• ▪ the coming or second coming of Christ.

Word Origin Old English, from Latin adventus ‘arrival’, from advenire, from ad- ‘to’ + venire ‘come’.

 

[The Light]

It is the case because most people know English well enough to know the words have the same meaning.


Ad·vent
/ˈadˌvent/

View attachment 36060
noun

• 1. the arrival of a notable person, thing, or event: "the advent of television"
• ▪ the first season of the Christian church year, leading up to Christmas and including the four preceding Sundays.
• ▪ the coming or second coming of Christ.

Word Origin Old English, from Latin adventus ‘arrival’, from advenire, from ad- ‘to’ + venire ‘come’.

And yet most don't understand that Jesus remains in the clouds for a harvest at the 6th seal. That is the second coming. That is why there is a great multitude in heaven in Revelation 7. All eyes will see the coming of the Lord. Jesus returns to heaven for the marriage supper.

But wrath has yet to begin. Jesus returns at the end of wrath.........Armageddon and sets up His kingdom on earth.

What I'm saying agrees completely with scripture. What you are saying agrees with doctrine. As unusual, I'm going with scripture on this.

 

[ewq1938]

What I'm saying agrees completely with scripture.

You think so but you are wrong just as you were wrong about the second coming being different from the second advent.

 

[The Light]

You think so but you are wrong just as you were wrong about the second coming being different from the second advent.

You think so but you are wrong just as you were wrong about the second coming being different from the second advent.

Mmm.

You think these verses are the second advent at the end of wrath when it is the second coming at the 6th seal before wrath. It's clearly marked by the signs of the sun, moon and stars. And yet you are unable to agree with what is written. I certainly understand your inability to see the rapture of the Church before the seals are opened, but you should be able to see that Jesus comes immediately after the tribulation for a harvest and then at the end of wrath.

Matthew 24
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

You have to deny the great multitude in heaven among other things. Some see. Some don't. Simple as that. There is a reason there are five wise virgins and 5 foolish.

 

[ewq1938]

but you should be able to see that Jesus comes immediately after the tribulation for a harvest and then at the end of wrath.

There aren't two second comings. You actually have three, the false pretrib coming, then the two you speak of above. The only correct one is "Jesus comes immediately after the tribulation for a harvest". That is the one and only second coming where the one and only harvest/rapture takes place.

 

[The Light]

There aren't two second comings. You actually have three, the false pretrib coming, then the two you speak of above. The only correct one is "Jesus comes immediately after the tribulation for a harvest". That is the one and only second coming where the one and only harvest/rapture takes place.

So how is it possible that the coming of Jesus at the 6th seal is BEFORE WRATH if there is only one coming?

Also, Jesus comes for the 144,000. You going to skip that also.

And what you claim is not possible because of the great multitude in heaven for the marriage supper.

The things you claim do not agree with scripture. Some see, Some don't. 5 wise, 5 foolish.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Here we see the second coming mentioned 3 times, then the resurrection and then the rapture. This proves the rapture is connected to the second coming. All that needs to be proven is when the second coming happens to know when the rapture happens.

Nowhere does this speak of Jesus landing on earth. It says we meet the Lord in the air and forever be with Him. Making a post rib rapture is done by combining similar words for dissimilar events and making them one.

But instead of useless debating here, I will say this. Time will prove who is correct in their understanding and who is not. And when that trumpet finally does toot, we all are gonna scoot!

 

[ewq1938]

Nowhere does this speak of Jesus landing on earth.

The first and second comings were completed without touching the ground. That comes after the coming which is an arrival and he arrives in the air.

 

[ewq1938]

So how is it possible that the coming of Jesus at the 6th seal is BEFORE WRATH if there is only one coming?

It's not possible because there is no coming at all "at" the sixth seal. The one and only coming happens at the last trump not at any seal.

 

[David in NJ]

The first and second comings were completed without touching the ground. That comes after the coming which is an arrival and he arrives in the air.

???

 

[David in NJ]

Nowhere does this speak of Jesus landing on earth. It says we meet the Lord in the air and forever be with Him. Making a post rib rapture is done by combining similar words for dissimilar events and making them one.

But instead of useless debating here, I will say this. Time will prove who is correct in their understanding and who is not. And when that trumpet finally does toot, we all are gonna scoot!

JESUS does not need to be on the ground for the Resurrection.

The Major Emphasis of JESUS being in the clouds above the earth for the Resurrection is...........think here and let me know - Peace

 

[David in NJ]

And yet most don't understand that Jesus remains in the clouds for a harvest at the 6th seal. That is the second coming. That is why there is a great multitude in heaven in Revelation 7. All eyes will see the coming of the Lord. Jesus returns to heaven for the marriage supper.

But wrath has yet to begin. Jesus returns at the end of wrath.........Armageddon and sets up His kingdom on earth.

What I'm saying agrees completely with scripture. What you are saying agrees with doctrine. As unusual, I'm going with scripture on this.

JESUS does not need to be on the ground for the Resurrection.

The Major Emphasis of JESUS being in the clouds above the earth for the Resurrection is...........think here and let me know - Peace

 

[No Pre-TB]

It's not possible because there is no coming at all "at" the sixth seal. The one and only coming happens at the last trump not at any seal.

I think @The Light mistakes "the sign of the son of man" in Matthew 24 as the coming of Christ. I've explained to him before, a sign is not the same as the manifestation.

sémeion: a sign
Usage: a sign, miracle, indication, mark, token.
HELPS Word-studies
4592 sēmeíon – a sign (typically miraculous), given especially to confirm, corroborate or authenticate. 4592 /sēmeíon ("sign") then emphasizes the end-purpose which exalts the one giving it. Accordingly, it is used dozens of times in the NT for what authenticates the Lord and His eternal purpose, especially by doing what mere man can not replicate of take credit for.

Obviously, that is not his coming. If only the Light would know it.

 

[ewq1938]

I think @The Light mistakes "the sign of the son of man" in Matthew 24 as the coming of Christ. I've explained to him before, a sign is not the same as the manifestation.

What's the point since the Son of man is seen in the same verse.

Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

 

[rockytopva]

Pre-mid-post trib is date picking. If we could pick a date there would be no need to watch…

42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.
43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up. - Matthew 24

 

[David in NJ]

Pre-mid-post trib is date picking. If we could pick a date there would be no need to watch…

42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.
43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up. - Matthew 24

Yes and No

Pre-trib heresy loves to predict dates and say "any day now", which is falsehood in Light of Scripture.

Whereas the LORD Jesus told us exactly what we need to know and look for in world events prior to His Second Coming.

However, since our earthbound physical life is limited to a maximum of 120 years (most only make it to 60-80), we must all be looking to JESUS for our daily Bread of Life.

Post-Trib are the exact words of Christ (Matt 24:29-31) and everyone who speaks against those words will have to give account for them.

SAFE ABIDING for All = Proverbs 30:5-6

Every word of God is pure;
He is a shield to those who put their trust in Him.
Do not add to His words,
Lest He rebuke you, and you be found a liar.

Words to Live by!

Peace

 

[Zao is life]

Revelation reveals to us 7 Iterations of the Second Coming of Christ

Yes I read Spiritual Israelite's mention and I agree with his scriptures except for the Revelation 20:9's "eighth one" what he listed.

@David in NJ As a side-note:

Revelation 16:15 is the first time Jesus is quoted as speaking directly to whoever can hear His voice again after His 7th message (the one to the 7th church) - and in both instances He is warning about being found naked when He comes.

17 Because you say, I am rich and increased with goods and have need of nothing, and do not know that you are wretched and miserable and poor and blind and naked,
18 I counsel you to buy from Me gold tried in the fire, so that you may be rich; and white clothing, so that you may be clothed, and so that the shame of your nakedness does not appear. And anoint your eyes with eye salve, so that you may see.

15 Behold, I am coming as a thief. Blessed is the one who watches and keeps his garments, lest he walk naked and they see his shame. -- Revelation 3 & 16.

In-between the 7th message to the 7th church and Revelation 16:15, John is seeing and recording the visions he writes about - but Jesus is not quoted as speaking directly to His churches until the beast has gathered his armies for the battle of Armageddon.

14 These will make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb will overcome them. For He is Lord of lords and King of kings. And those with Him are the called and elect and faithful ones. Revelation 17

14 And the armies in Heaven followed Him on white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
15 And out of His mouth goes a sharp sword, so that with it He should strike the nations. And He will shepherd them with a rod of iron. And He treads the winepress of the wine of the anger and of the wrath of Almighty God.
16 And He has on His garment, and on His thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS. Revelation 19.

And the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with you. Zechariah 14:5b.​

It's obvious when the resurrection/rapture will occur - not before He comes. As with the 7th and final plague of the Revelation, God's people were kept safe from the final plague to come upon Egypt- by the blood of the lamb.