The Rapture Lie

[Helen]

Faith is a GIFT from God.
Any man CAN ONLY "have" faith, WHEN God gifts the man Faith.

Romans 12:3
."..according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith...."

 

[Naomi25]

The scripture below clearly shows an explanation of the true church, and apostate church, as you will see in verse 21 below,at one time thay followed righteousness.

Naomi God is coming for a church without spot or blemish.

The bible clearly speaks of this falling away from truth. Im 60, and was saved at 18, revival was in the streets of the USA, preaching on streets, parks, bumper stickers reading Jesus Is Lord, Homosexuality in the 60s, 70s was silent, let alone to be permitted and accepted in any church. The sins of Adultery and Fornication were preached against from the pulpits.

The last 20 years has seen the great apostasy, leaving the teachings of truth, on sin and repentance, Homosexuality, Adultery, Fornication are accepted in the apostate church and world.

The stage is being set before your eyes, as Russia is on Israels borders, and the worlds eyes ae focused on Jerusalem.

The man of peace, Aka The "Antichrist" is not far off, keep your eyes open.

A Church without spot or blemish? A perfect Church? I don't think I can agree to that, as the bible plainly teaches we will only be perfect once Jesus has returned...not before it. Do we then say he's coming for "the best 'Church'"?...the "most correct 'Church'"? (and here I'm using the term 'church' for denomination, I suppose). And who is to say which one that is? As I said before, while most Orthodox denominations agree on the core issues of the faith (who Jesus is, who God is, what they've done in terms of salvation, the cross and grace, etc), so many of the other doctrines we don't agree on. Which one is right? Should we all take the opinion that what we believe is right and denounce other denominations to the pit of hell?
Here's my take: God made the Core issues plain, because they needed to be. The other issues are a little more vague, which has allowed differences to pop up within the Church. And I think that's okay. Mostly, we manage to talk about these differences with grace and a certain amount of edification. And in the end, I don't think it will truly matter if a Christian thinks Jesus will come before 7 years, or after them. The real issue God wanted us to know, was that he IS coming, and when he does, it will be glorious and he will be King.

As far as your other points. I absolutely agree. It's only getting worse, and will continue, I think. The stage, indeed, seems to be set. Finishing touches being laid?

 

[Truth7t7]

A Church without spot or blemish? A perfect Church? I don't think I can agree to that, as the bible plainly teaches we will only be perfect once Jesus has returned...not before it. Do we then say he's coming for "the best 'Church'"?...the "most correct 'Church'"? (and here I'm using the term 'church' for denomination, I suppose). And who is to say which one that is? As I said before, while most Orthodox denominations agree on the core issues of the faith (who Jesus is, who God is, what they've done in terms of salvation, the cross and grace, etc), so many of the other doctrines we don't agree on. Which one is right? Should we all take the opinion that what we believe is right and denounce other denominations to the pit of hell?
Here's my take: God made the Core issues plain, because they needed to be. The other issues are a little more vague, which has allowed differences to pop up within the Church. And I think that's okay. Mostly, we manage to talk about these differences with grace and a certain amount of edification. And in the end, I don't think it will truly matter if a Christian thinks Jesus will come before 7 years, or after them. The real issue God wanted us to know, was that he IS coming, and when he does, it will be glorious and he will be King.

As far as your other points. I absolutely agree. It's only getting worse, and will continue, I think. The stage, indeed, seems to be set. Finishing touches being laid?

Ephesians 5:27KJV
That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.

Ephesians 1:4KJV
4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

 

[Naomi25]

Ephesians 5:27KJV
That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.

Ephesians 1:4KJV
4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

Ok...both these verses are clearly talking about the substitution. His perfection for our stain in the eyes of God. Does this mean we are functionally perfect in this life? The rest of scripture would disagree. How many verses could we produce talking about sanctification, the putting to death of sin that is ongoing, the need to walk towards godliness? All that presupposes we are not, yet, perfect, even though, in God's eyes, in terms of justification, we are.

So, relating that back to the topic at hand, it becomes very hard to try and determine which denomination "has it right"...in terms of all there doctrines, does it not? Which is why I suggested that the real importance is nailing the core beliefs. Those are what Jesus will judge people on when he returns.

I tell you, he will give justice to them speedily. Nevertheless, when the Son of Man comes, will he find faith on earth?” - Luke 18:8

 

[Heart2Soul]

So, relating that back to the topic at hand, it becomes very hard to try and determine which denomination "has it right"...in terms of all there doctrines, does it not? Which is why I suggested that the real importance is nailing the core beliefs. Those are what Jesus will judge people on when he returns.

NO denomination has it right.....if there was one....just one.... that had it all right then that would be the church I would want to be a member of....which will be His Church.

 

[Naomi25]

NO denomination has it right.....if there was one....just one.... that had it all right then that would be the church I would want to be a member of....which will be His Church.

It's a bit interesting to think on, isn't it? I mean...there could be a denomination out there that hits the nail on the head with all it's doctrines. But how are we supposed to know?
I think all we can really do is just really do our best to walk in hand with the Spirit, be in the word and be careful not to let outside influences seep in too much. If we truly love Jesus and truly want God's truth...well...'seek and you will find'. Our God is good and he is loving and I trust him to hold me through this age to the next.

 

[Taken]

Romans 12:3
."..according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith...."

Agree.

And we can see from Scriptural examples, the effort of a man to Continue in faith, the man becomes INCREASED in faith, ie. A preparation of FILLING the man with faith, ie being prepared to submit / give his life to the Lord.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[Taken]

The Rapture Lie

I chose the strong word in the title of this lesson for a very good reason. There’s a very dangerous doctrine circulating around in the Christian Church that will have dramatic effects on those who choose to walk down this false path. In this lesson, I want you to see that this idea that all “Good Christians” will be taken from the Earth shortly before or early during the reign of the “antichrist” is something that is not based upon what the Bible teaches.

Strongly disagree with You.

First of all You set the Premise, and then Call it a Lie.

"Good Christians" ? ie Your Premise.

That is NOT the Premise for those who are Raptured.

Those WHO shall be Raptured are those WHO have Already Willingly given their LIFE TO the Lord.
They have Already fulfilled their Appointment to Die Once, When they were Crucified WITH Christ.

Rapture is simply a term that applies to a Converted man, a man IN Christ.
It signifies the DAY the Lord Shall REDEEM, take and Claim what such men willingly Gave TO the Lord.

You Changing the premise from a Converted man IN Christ, to a "good Christian", is False and irrelevant.

You Calling the event of the Lord claiming / Redeeming His Church a LIE, is NOT Scriptural.

Step back and read the verse. “The Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God.”

What about it? Who has proclaimed otherwise?

Now, I don’t know about you, but this doesn’t sound like a quiet event to me in the sense of some secret rapture?

Again, you change the premise...."secret rapture" ?

Who is claiming this is a SECRET ?

The Converted do not teach this is a Secret event. It is taught in Scripture, that the Lord shall redeem His Church.

Perhaps you think it a SECRET, because men remaining on earth SHALL NOT SEE bodies of men being transported from earth up to the Clouds to Meet their Lord.

Well why would men remaining on earth SEE such an event?

Scripture teaches Earthly EYES are NOT equipped to SEE "Spiritual Bodies". And every Converted man IS "Changed" and RAISED UP IN a "Spiritual Body"!

IN the Days of Noe (Noah).
You latched on the common understanding....
Dancing, men making merriment, etc.
Yes, we can observe the behaviors of men focused on their life being consumed with fun and not paying attention to the Lord.

However the understanding is deeper than what is happening ON the Earth concerning men NOT IN Christ.

IF you ARE Converted, your concern of understanding Should be about Converted men......being...---->

Noah's day and what happened to him and his family is the foreshadow and parallel to a man today who IS Converted.

The Lord directed Noah to build and enter a Safe refuge. And Noah complied. Thus through the Lord Noah was accepting the Lords Salvation.

What happened to the Earth?
God Himself Cleansed the Earth, with Water..
......which resulted in destruction upon the Earth.
And what happened to Noah?
He was risen ABOVE the face of the Earth...
Saved FROM the distruction upon the Earth.

The Parallel shall again occur.
The Converted, ie the Saved, shall rise ABOVE the face of the Earth....specifically to the Clouds.
The Earth shall experience distruction upon the Earth.....By FIRE, which does not cleanse like water, but rather Purifies ... like gold is purified....(which gold is a parallel used in scriptural purification, as an example lthat men can actually SEE it being burning and the impurities being eradicated, leaving the gold pure).

The Saved are those IN Christ. Taken Up before the tribulation begins. They have already given what the Lord God Requires...
Ie THEIR LIFE, crucified WITH Christ.

During the first half of the Tribulation, there are others left on the earth, NOT IN CHRIST, but that Believe IN God Almighty.
They were the FIRST who heard God, who agreed to Trust and Believe and Obey God.
While they believed IN God, believed in the Word of God, believed in the Messiah....they could not believe the Word of God; the Messiah; was JESUS. They faltered.

They shall experience the Beginning (first part of the Tribulation). They are being taught to escape the cities, depart to the hills, but to NOT believe the Lord Himself descended ON Earth. They shall be provided (144,000) Ministers to teach them that Jesus IS their Christ Messiah. And they WHO believe, shall be Saved, and suffer a physical death, and rapture. (About the opening of the 5th seal during the Tribulation).

During this time the anti-Christ, ie the Devil, ie Satan, shall be Controlling the Earth, and the very purpose for those believing IN God, to flee the cities.

After, those IN Christ, the Converted are REDEEMED pryor to the Tribulation..AND THOSE becoming Converted during the first half of the Tribulation is Accomplished....

The Last half of the Tribulation shall be Gods Wrath upon the Earth, WITH Fire, (just as it was Gods Wrath upon the Earth, WITH Water)

Those who are NOT SAVED above the Face of the EARTH, SHALL perish, THUS effecting their Separation from God and the Habitat He provided FOR a mans Estate.

This is a simple brief, whereas there is much more detail.

However Your teaching the Lord SHALL NOT Redeem and Claim His Church is FALSE.

Rapture is simply a one term word that means "snatching away". It is befitting, Since the Lord SHALL CLAIM His Church on a Day, of His choosing, and SHALL make such claim, QUICKLY.

It is appointed unto all men to be tested, tried, suffer, have hardships during their life upon this earth, DURING the time, MEN are kings, governments, cheaters, liars, thieves, sneaks, greedy, selfish, corrupt, and the public at large suffers at the hands of such men.

It is Converted men IN Christ and Believers IN God Almighty WHO have a God to "comfort" them THROUGH their Natural existence upon the Earth.

It is NOT taught that God desires the Saved and Dead IN CHRIST, to suffer His Wrath UPON the Earth...during the Tribulation.

Nor was it taught Noah suffered the Lord Gods Wrath upon the Earth, but rather Noah was Saved and risen up ABOVE the face of the earth to the Face of the Waters.

1 Thes 5:9
For God HATH NOT appointed us to wrath, but to obtain Salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ.

Simply put - "IF" one HAS obtained Salvation by the Lord Jesus Christ....

Jesus Christ IS such a man's Lord..
And
Such a man HAS confessed Belief, Given His Life to Christ....
He has obtained Salvation.
And
Such man IS NOT Appointed to Gods Wrath.

And HOW the Lord KEEPS a SAVED man FROM being Subject TO His Wrath....is the same as was effected for Noah....

By Removing the SAVED TO Above the face of the Earth while the EARTH and those ON the Earth shall Experience Gods Wrath.

Trust the Truth of God over a false pamphlet.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[Helen]

I wish I believed in 'a rapture'...I used to...but then I grew up!! I put away childish things of man so called 'revelation'...which is so new...not even invented until 1830
Im so glad that the pre-trib, mid-trib , and post=trib are all called " rapture theologies" For that is all they are.

If the rapture were truly a biblical doctrine, it would mesh with all other scriptural references to Christ’s coming. But it does not stand up to that test.

Our only rapture will be when we see our Lord face to Face..and fall down at His feet in awesome wonder.

 

[Taken]

I wish I believed in 'a rapture'...I used to...but then I grew up!! I put away childish things of man so called 'revelation'...which is so new...not even invented until 1830
Im so glad that the pre-trib, mid-trib , and post=trib are all called " rapture theologies" For that is all they are.

If the rapture were truly a biblical doctrine, it would mesh with all other scriptural references to Christ’s coming. But it does not stand up to that test.

Our only rapture will be when we see our Lord face to Face..and fall down at His feet in awesome wonder.

You say you don't believe in a rapture but then say there is a rapture.

?

God Bless,
Taken

 

[APAK]

The biblical term 'snatched up' or rapture in Thessalonians, has been hijacked and used to mean several possible timings based upon and contingent on the rise of exceptional evil people on earth etc. Yes there will be a 'secret' rapture to unbelievers although not to true believers that are being raptures 'up.' It will not take believers by surprise. Yes, the true assembly of God will be raised up and unbelievers will not 'see' it. There won't be as many raised as many people think I guess only 20% of those that profess Christ. Fire and destruction, unbelievers will see. There won't be time to meditate on the 'missing.' The parallel with Noah and his time is accurate, as it is also scriptural.

Bless all,

APAK

 

[Taken]

The biblical term 'snatched up' or rapture in Thessalonians, has been hijacked and used to mean several possible timings based upon and contingent on the rise of exceptional evil people on earth etc. Yes there will be a 'secret' rapture to unbelievers although not to true believers that are being raptures 'up.' It will not take believers by surprise. Yes, the true assembly of God will be raised up and unbelievers will not 'see' it. There won't be as many raised as many people think I guess only 20% of those that profess Christ. Fire and destruction, unbelievers will see. There won't be time to meditate on the 'missing.' The parallel with Noah and his time is accurate, as it is also scriptural.

Bless all,

APAK

Amen!

Those IN Christ are already Perfected Because They are IN Him and He is perfected.

All are sentenced TO a physical death.
It is a blessing, Because NOONE can become "reborn" unless he fist Dies.

The Lord Does not Force a man To become "Born again"....... He Offers that choice.

Men IN Christ "typically" for the most part are Gentiles, WHO Believe "and" accepted the Lords Offering.

Men "particularly" Jews who Believe IN God, have NOT come into the belief that Jesus is their Christ Messiah. They did not Willingly give their life unto death crucified with Christ.

They are particularly ministered to BY 144,000 of their Jewish Fathers, and can Believe THEM, or not.

This occurs during the first half of the Tribulation.

And What exactly IS the intent of Gods Wrath? Un......duh........It is an all out punishment FOR Corruption Against God.

And WHY would God specifically PUNISH the Converted whose "Corruption" has been Forgiven and Covered and Remembered no more.? He doesn't.

The Lord claiming those IN Christ, is before the first half of the Tribulation.

The Lord claiming those IN Christ during the first half of the Tribulation IS effected Before the Great Tribulation (ie the 2nd half), during the 5th Seal opening.

The Great Tribulation, (the last half), the Division between Those IN Christ and Those NOT in Christ IS Accomplished.

Those NOT in Christ, shall be subject to the Lords Great Wrath for Rejecting Him.

They SHALL receive What they were forewarned of, and still elected to Choose.

God IS JUST. Choose what you will, and He will make "your" Choice be fulfilled.

The Confusion for a Christ is ignorance of Redemption.

The Redemption IS already accounted TO GOD, when a man IS Converted. God doesn't "wait" to SEE......men do.

The RAPTURE, IS the Effect of a man IN Christ Being Quickly Taken....AND his first time for Being able to "SEE".... because He is raised IN a Spiritual Body, with "spirutal Eyes" that Can See, and so also is it a FIRST Time men Shall see their Lord God....AS HE IS.

The Confusion for Christians is pretending the NT is ONLY addressing Christians. It isn't.

Jesus did not come to Address Gentiles. He came to seek the Lost Jews. His disciples were Jews. The Hebrews were appointed and the Jews were appointed to be Gods Servants to teach the World of God and His Christ Messiah,
... that any man could become a Jew?

No, that any man could become Gods People "Israel".

Well the Jewish teaching was temporarily successful for awhile....then dwindled....and the Gentiles latched on to the teachings and minister and spread the WordOf God and His Christ Messiah Lord Jesus.

The Hebrews/Jews were the First to BECOME saints, and now they are the Last to become saved.

Rejection always becomes Corrections.
When the Correction is meet, the rejection is forgiven and covered.

And without doubt, that Correction has a time limit for men. Which is to say, they must be alive in their natural flesh life (ie their blood), to make their choices to reject, accept correction or not.

God Bless, brother.
Taken

 

[Taken]

I wish I believed in 'a rapture'...I used to...but then I grew up!! I put away childish things of man so called 'revelation'...which is so new...not even invented until 1830
Im so glad that the pre-trib, mid-trib , and post=trib are all called " rapture theologies" For that is all they are.

I disagree.
The topic regarding a Rapture is about the Raising of a mans body.

ALL bodies Shall be raised.

Pre-trib
Mid-trib
Post-trib

Each ^^ has an application to particular men.

Pre-trib applies to a man IN Christ.

Mid-trib applies to a man Faithful to God, who becomes faithful to Christ during the first half of the tribulation.

Post-trib applies to a man who rejected faithfulness to the Lord, to God, and shall be raised up in "corrupt" body.

If the rapture were truly a biblical doctrine, it would mesh with all other scriptural references to Christ’s coming. But it does not stand up to that test.

It does.
A division of individuals is being effected during the last days of this earth; a World as we have known it.

No man shall escape being raised up....By the Power of the Lord.

It is the When, and to Where, and unto Whom, and the Why that is continuously debated.

Without Considering the True Knowledge of Who, What, When, Why, Where....the debate without the facts continues.

Our only rapture will be when we see our Lord face to Face..and fall down at His feet in awesome wonder.

That is the precise "rapture" before tribulation, a Converted man IN Christ shall experience.

But that does not address the Jews or the Unbelievers, who shall also be raised up bodily.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[Enoch111]

If the rapture were truly a biblical doctrine, it would mesh with all other scriptural references to Christ’s coming. But it does not stand up to that test.

1. Since the Rapture is clearly presented in the Bible in several passages, it is nothing less than a truly biblical doctrine.

2. It does mesh with the second coming of Christ, since Christ cannot possibly come from Heaven WITH all His saints unless He had first already come (in the air) FOR all His saints at the Rapture.

3. All allegations claiming that the doctrine of the Rapture was introduced only in the 19th century are patently false, and pure propaganda. It is the Lord Jesus Christ Himself who first spoke of the Rapture BEFORE His crucifixion. Please note (John 14:1-3):

1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.

2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

This is not merely addressed to the apostles, but to the Church, which is the Bride of Christ. Christ comes for His Bride so that she may become the Lamb's Wife in Heaven

 

[Nancy]

The Rapture Lie

Hi Christina,
Very good post! Eschatology has been my main area of interest for more than 25 years. The rapture issue has never been settled in my heart very well. I remember struggling with pre/post/mid trib. stuff...believed all three at one time or another, lol...I ended up settling (kind of) for post trib. Your post gives me much food for thought, thank you!!

Be blessed!
-nancy

 

[Nancy]

You are correct Martin....................................I can be before or after. I have studied both sides very carefully, and have concluded that it is all how you look at timing. If God wanted it clear, then it would all be clear. who arguees that the tribulation won't be a seven year period? Nobody, because it is clear for all to see.

I have never done this, but here is someone elses Work..............................

by Kent Crockett

Proof #1: Revelation 19:11-21 doesn't mention a resurrection.

The rapture is a resurrection of those "in Christ" (1 Thess. 4:13-18). Isn't it a little bit odd that in Rev. 19:11-21, which is the clearest picture of the second coming of Christ, there is no mention of a resurrection? The rapture will be the biggest event since the resurrection of Jesus where hundreds of millions of Christians will be resurrected and translated, yet there isn't any mention here. Don't you think it deserves at least one verse? The rapture isn't mentioned because it doesn't happen at the second coming.

Proof #2: Zechariah 14:1-15 doesn't mention a resurrection.

This is an Old Testament picture of Jesus returning to earth at the second coming. Again, no mention of a resurrection.

Proof #3: Two different pictures are painted.

In the Old Testament, there were two different pictures painted of the Messiah—one suffering (Isa. 53:2-10, Ps. 22:6-8, 11-18) and one reigning as King (Ps. 2:6-12, Zech. 14:9,16). As we look back on these scriptures, we see they predicted two separate comings of the Messiah—the 1st coming as a suffering Messiah and the 2nd coming (still future) as a reigning King.

In the New Testament, we have another picture added. Again, we have two pictures painted which don’t look the same. These two different descriptions of Jesus’ coming point to two separate events we call "the rapture" and "the second coming."

Proof #4: The Known Day and the Unknown Day

Concerning the return of Jesus, the Bible presents a day we can't know and a day we can know. Matthew 25:13 says Jesus will return at an unknown time, while Revelation 12:6 says the Jews will have to wait 1,260 days for the Lord to return. The 1,260 days begins when the Antichrist stands in the Temple and declares himself to be God (Matt. 24:15-21, 2 Thess. 2:4) This event will take place at the mid-point of the seven year Tribulation (Dan 9:27). The Antichrist has authority to rule for 42 months, which is 1,260 days (Rev. 13:4) and will be destroyed by Jesus at His second coming (Rev. 19:20, 2 Thess. 2:8). The known and unknown days must happen at different times, meaning they are two separate events.

Proof #5: A door open in heaven (Revelation 4:1)

The door in heaven is opened to let John into heaven. We believe John's call into heaven is prophetic of the church being caught up at the rapture (see proof #6). In Revelation 19:11, heaven is opened again, this time to let the armies which are already in heaven out. This is the Church, which has been raptured at a previous time, following Jesus out of heaven at the second coming.

Proof #6: "Come up here." (Revelation 4:1)

A voice called for the apostle John to "Come up here," and immediately he was in heaven. This could be a prophetic reference to the rapture of the Church. The words "Come up here" are spoken to the two witnesses who are killed in the middle of the Tribulation, who are resurrected and ascend into heaven (Rev. 11:12). Therefore, the phrase "Come up here" could mean the church is raptured in Rev. 4:1. The word "church" is mentioned 22 times in Rev. 1-3, but is not mentioned again until Rev. 22:17.

Proof #7: The 24 elders have their crowns.

After John is called up into heaven, he sees the 24 elders with their crowns (Rev. 4:4-10). We know that Christians will receive their rewards (crowns) at the rapture (2 Tim. 4:8, 1 Pet. 5:4). We will be repaid at the resurrection of the righteous (Luke 14:14). The elders couldn't receive their crowns unless the resurrection (rapture) has taken place.

Proof #8 Holy ones are already with Jesus in heaven (Zech. 14:5, Rev. 19:14)

The armies in heaven, clothed in fine linen, follow Jesus out of heaven at His second coming (Rev. 19:14, Zech. 14:5, Col. 3:4). These are not angels because Rev. 19:8 tells us the fine linen is the righteousness of the saints. In order to come out of heaven we first have to go in, indicating a previous rapture.

Proof #9: Kept from the hour of testing (Rev. 3:10)

Revelation 3:10 says we will be kept out of the hour of testing which will come upon the whole earth (the Tribulation). Some have wrongly believed "keep" means to keep through, or protect through the Tribulation. Suppose you approach a high voltage area with a sign that says, "Keep Out." Does that mean you can enter and be protected? No, it means you are forbidden from entering the area. But this verse also says He will keep us from the hour of testing. It is not just the testing, but the time period. If a student is excused from a test, he still may have to sit in the class while others take the test. But if he is excused from the hour of testing, he can go home. The Church will be called home before the hour of testing.

Proof #10: Angels don't resurrect people when they gather them for judgment.

When the angels are sent forth to gather the elect at the second coming (Matt. 24:29-31), some have wrongly interpreted this as the rapture. There is one huge problem with this interpretation. If we are resurrected at this time, why would we need angels to gather us? In the resurrection, we will be like the angels (Matt. 22:30), able to travel in the air at will. Obviously, these people who are gathered are not resurrected, therefore it can't be the rapture. No one would claim the wicked are raptured at this time, yet Matthew 13:39-41, 49 says the angels will not only gather the elect, but also the wicked. This gathering is not a resurrection.

Proof #11: Both the wicked and the righteous can't be taken first.

First Thessalonians 4:13-17 says the righteous are taken and the wicked are left behind. Matthew 13:30, 49 says the wicked are taken first and righteous are left behind. This points to two separate events, the rapture and the second coming.

Proof #12: Jesus returns from the wedding.

When Jesus returns to earth at the second coming, He will return from a wedding (Luke 12:36). At the rapture, Jesus is married to His bride, the Church. After the wedding, He will return to earth.

Proof #13: Jesus will receive us to Himself, not us to receive Him (John 14:2-3).

Jesus said He would prepare a place for the Church in heaven, then He would come again to receive us to Himself. Why would Jesus prepare a place for us in heaven and then not take us there? At the rapture, He will come to receive us to Himself, "that where I am (heaven), there you may be also." If the rapture occurred at the same time as the second coming, we would go up to the clouds and then immediately come back to earth. That would contradict John 14:2-3.

Proof #14: The one who restrains is taken out of the way.

In 2 Thess. 2:6-7, Paul says "the one who restrains will be taken out of the way" before the Antichrist can be revealed. We believe this refers to the rapture because the Church is clearly the biggest obstacle to the Antichrist becoming a world ruler.

Proof #15: The separation of the sheep and goats (Matt. 25:31-46)

If the rapture occurred at the second coming, why would the sheep and the goats need to be separated immediately after the second coming? A rapture at the second coming would have already separated the sheep and the goats. With a Pre-Tribulation rapture, the people saved after the rapture will need to be separated after the second coming.

Proof #16: Who will populate the Millennium?

If the rapture occurs at the second coming and the wicked are cast into hell at that time, who will be left to populate the millennium? Only people in their natural (non-resurrected) bodies will be able to have children (Matt. 22:30). With a Pre-Tribulation rapture, the people saved after the rapture who are alive at the second coming will populate the earth during the Millennium.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ken address some time issues, and they make sense to me. It also looks like Ken had done his homework.

To say there is not Rapture, or removing of the Chruch at least, bring up lots of issues.

Now saying your study is better than someone else, when there are clear timeing issues is just silly.

Jesus Is Lord.

Oh great Brother Mike, now I am back to believing the Rapture, lol! Tank you

 

[Helen]

You say you don't believe in a rapture but then say there is a rapture.

?

God Bless,
Taken

Obviously...every time I am communing with God...it is rapture, I am caught up in Him...my body goes nowhere!

I am saying there is no sudden departure from this earth of bodies being 'snatched away" ...God did not form a Glorious Church just to snatch it out of trouble.

We will not be here for the tribulation , but we The Glorious Church will be here through the tribulation. That is what the armour Paul speak of is about.
The rapture theory is one of the best of the Devils hoaxes , to date.

Isa 43:2 "When thou passest through the waters, I will be with thee; and through the rivers, they shall not overflow thee: when thou walkest through the fire, thou shalt not be burned; neither shall the flame kindle upon thee."

If we can't hack it now...if life's tribulation gets us down now, and if we are not strong in the Lord now...we sure wont do very well in the great tribulation.

If preachers told their people to be ready and strong instead of telling them that they will be zapped out of trouble...maybe then they would be sharing true rather than the devil's hoax.

 

[Nancy]

Obviously...every time I am communing with God...it is rapture, I am caught up in Him...my body goes nowhere!

I am saying there is no sudden departure from this earth of bodies being 'snatched away" ...God did not form a Glorious Church just to snatch it out of trouble.

We will not be here for the tribulation , but we The Glorious Church will be here through the tribulation. That is what the armour Paul speak of is about.
The rapture theory is one of the best of the Devils hoaxes , to date.

Isa 43:2 "When thou passest through the waters, I will be with thee; and through the rivers, they shall not overflow thee: when thou walkest through the fire, thou shalt not be burned; neither shall the flame kindle upon thee."

If we can't hack it now...if life's tribulation gets us down now, and if we are not strong in the Lord now...we sure wont do very well in the great tribulation.

If preachers told their people to be ready and strong instead of telling them that they will be zapped out of trouble...maybe then they would be sharing true rather than the devil's hoax.

My mind is like unto a ping pong ball rolling down Rapture/or not lane as I can see both sides!!!!! LOL

 

[Taken]

Obviously...every time I am communing with God...it is rapture, I am caught up in Him...my body goes nowhere!

That's a clever metaphor pertaining to you and your action.

The Rapture is about the Lords Action, of Claiming His Church, rising His Church above the face of the Earth, while He purifies the earth and prepares it for His Kingdom and the inhabitants of His Kingdom.

I am saying there is no sudden departure from this earth of bodies being 'snatched away"

I know you are and I disagree with you.
And Scripture disagrees with you.

...God did not form a Glorious Church just to snatch it out of trouble.

Again I disagree with you.
God Established His Church.
Christ is form-ING His Church Increasing it's membership every time a man becomes Converted.

The ground where Christ's Kingdom shall stand, IS polluted, IS Corrupt, and shall be Purified with Fire Before His Church enters His Kingdom, ie, the New NEW mans New habitat.

We will not be here for the tribulation , but we The Glorious Church will be here through the tribulation.

Why?
So you can Convert men?
So you can Suffer His wrath?
Why?
And where do you believe the Son of Man Shall be During the Tribulation?

That is what the armour Paul speak of is about.

No. The whole armor is having True knowledge of the full protection the Lord has given men who are Converted.
Know about it, Understand it, use it now as you remain on earth, and Remember it when the Son of Man appears with His saints for the Battle that ends Corruption ruling the World.

The rapture theory is one of the best of the Devils hoaxes , to date.

Disagree.
I think the Hoax is for men to NOT believe the Lord came to DIVIDE men in the last days, and it shall be so.

Isa 43:2 "When thou passest through the waters, I will be with thee; and through the rivers, they shall not overflow thee: when thou walkest through the fire, thou shalt not be burned; neither shall the flame kindle upon thee."

If we can't hack it now...if life's tribulation gets us down now, and if we are not strong in the Lord now...we sure wont do very well in the great tribulation.

I do not expect to go through thee Tribulation. And nothing new lesser trials and tribulations and hardships occur for Converted men, and the Lord is always there to help them through it.

So again, if you will answer....
Where is the Lord Son of man, during the Tribulation?

If preachers told their people to be ready and strong instead of telling them that they will be zapped out of trouble...maybe then they would be sharing true rather than the devil's hoax.

People can only be strong and ready IN CHRIST, who is the power of God.

If it is your belief the Lord desires a Man IN Christ to be appointed to His Wrath....Why would He say otherwise?

1 Thes 5:9

God Bless,
Taken

 

[Helen]

Says you!!!!

How come it takes you so long a post to just say what you need to say?

You seem to believe that everyone that you post are all to stupid to get the point unless you write a post three miles long.

Obviously I disagree with you anyway. And much you write is a load of rubbish.

Or maybe you don't understand that, and need me to say it over six time from Sunday and make it a long drawn out post!!