The Seed of your Righteousness

[2nd Timothy Group]

Actually I've spent a great deal of time in discussion with CL over these things, and I think I do have a pretty good idea.

Then let it go. I promise this one thing to you, and it is that there is no way she will ever go backward in her theology. If I were you, I'd cast aside your previous knowledge and listen to her. Try to find a way to make what she says "fit." - That is Biblical Wisdom.

 

[marks]

marks, take it up with John. You have to accept the Word of God. If not, you can believe in fairy tales for all that it will help you see Truth

OK, either I see it your way or I'm believing fairy tales?

There ya go!

 

[marks]

Then let it go. I promise this one thing to you, and it is that there is no way she will ever go backward in her theology. If I were you, I'd cast aside your previous knowledge and listen to her. Try to find a way to make what she says "fit." - That is Biblical Wisdom.

Are you certain you understand my view on this, and how it differs from CL's? Do you use the OT commandments to discern your behavior?

Much love!

 

[CharismaticLady]

OK, either I see it your way or I'm believing fairy tales?

There ya go!

When you mock the Word of God and what it says (the only Truth), the alternative is fairy tales, or more precise, false doctrines.

 

[2nd Timothy Group]

Are you certain you understand my view on this, and how it differs from CL's? Do you use the OT commandments to discern your behavior?

Much love!

Honestly, I think that I am so old that I can't really remember who has said what, or believes that. Other than @CharismaticLady, there isn't anyone here whose doctrine I am able to retain. What she believes is essentially what I believe.

No, I do not depend upon laws written upon Stone, but Spiritual Laws [Who] cause me to obey. Yes, I said Laws [Who] cause me to obey. Why? Because like Living Water, the fourth stage of the Law, these Laws are alive and within a person's Heart. This is what it means to share in the Divine Nature of Christ.

The Work of Jesus renders the Laws of Moses useless. And by the way, anyone who attempts to live by Laws written upon stone, or even the old Moral Law (the third stage of the Law), they remain cursed.

Yes, I can post the verses that clearly outline these things, but each time that I do, they are completely ignored. The Truth, here, is just completely ignored by those who have been chosen to come here with the intention of fighting and arguing. I don't play that game. I employ the game of Love for you all . . . nothing more, nothing less. And I mean that . . . which is why you will NEVER see me even hint at belittling a person. I don't believe that name-calling helps anyone. And if I have done that, then I was utterly and totally wrong. I care so much for each of you, that I would rather just be considered "wrong," than engage in any kind of battle. And when a person is added to my block list, it won't be forever. I will unblock people periodically and give them another opportunity to grace me with their ideas . . . I would love nothing more than to hear what each person is saying and believing, but I draw the line when people demonstrate and prove that they intend to harm, forever, a person's conscience, effecting the way they feel about themselves and thus impacting their ability to see this life rightly.

Sorry for the rambling.

 

[Behold]

You are right, that is self-righteousness. The test of whether you are born again is if the DESIRE to sin has been taken away by Christ, @marks and @Behold?

cc: @2nd Timothy Group

The proof of salvation is not if you have no longer any temptation.
The proof of salvation is that you are born again.

For example, charismaticlady, Jesus was tempted.
So, There is no end to the flesh wanting to be satisfied, and if you never have any more desire for what is sensual, then that is because you are in the grave.
As that is where temptation and lust and the desire to fulfill it, ends for your body, or the "flesh".
This is why Paul, when talking to the BORN AGAIN.....tells them "dont use your Liberty (Grace of God) for an occasion to the FLESH".

"occasion to the flesh" is the carnal desires, fulfilled.

Notice that Paul didn't say..."now that you are never going to want to sin again,""

He does not say that, as that would be foolish... and not the truth.

So, this completely defies and contradicts your odd theology that you teach.

See, Jesus gives us power to NOT give in....to the lust, to the carnal. = To OVERCOME.

To try to falsely teach, as you do, that you never have a sinful thought, or a carnal desire, is the real proof you are born again, has no connection to Christian Reality.

And one more for you Reader..... "Paul tells you to put on the Armour of God" so that you can "STAND" against the temptations....of your FLESH.

So, if you never, as some deceived Charismatics teach, have any more desires for the carnal, the you would not need to put on spiritual armour =to Stand against the Temptations of this World, ....would you?


What God provides is VICTORY over your Flesh, because your Flesh is never going to leave you alone, even tho its crucified with Christ.
Paul teaches it like this...... When the law's dominion had him... when he was trying to stop sinning by WILLPOWER< he found himself in this situation....."oh wretched man that i am"". How can i be delivered from my carnality, my LUST.....this BODY of DEATH".
And he learned that the problem was.....when you resist sin by will, the Law's dominion causes you to want it more and you fall into it more.
"the POWER OF SIN = IS THE LAW"...
= "that which i would not do,,,,,I DO IT"..
See that?
That is what happens when you try to fight the good fight in your own power.
= 100% failure rate.
But once Paul learned to stop resisting the Carnal, and live in God's Grace, (Right Believing) He found in THERE the "Christ always gives me the Victory" over the lust and the carnal and the "body of death".
So, when we want to stop living and failing in that battle, (sinning and confessing and repenting) = we find victory over it through the Power of Christ, and not by trying to stop sinning by will power.
Or as Jesus told you....>"apart from ME, you can do NOTHING">.
In other words, you can't live the holy life by trying to live it.....You can only live it by the Power of Christ, empowering you to live it.

Its like this......to fight the good fight and win, is to REST in the Grace of God.

"its not by might".....that is your self effort......"it's by GOD's Spirit".. and that is found when you REST in God's Grace.

 

[CharismaticLady]

The proof of salvation is not if you have no longer any temptation.
The proof of salvation is that you are born again.

For example, charismaticlady, Jesus was tempted.
So, There is no end to the flesh wanting to be satisfied, and if you never have any more desire for what is sensual, then that is because you are in the grave.
As that is where temptation and lust and the desire to fulfill it, ends for your body, or the "flesh".
This is why Paul, when talking to the BORN AGAIN.....tells them "dont use your Liberty (Grace of God) for an occasion to the FLESH".

"occasion to the flesh" is the carnal desires, fulfilled.

Notice that Paul didn't say..."now that you are never going to want to sin again,""

He does not say that, as that would be foolish... and not the truth.

So, this completely defies and contradicts your odd theology that you teach.

See, Jesus gives us power to NOT give in....to the lust, to the carnal. = To OVERCOME.

To try to falsely teach, as you do, that you never have a sinful thought, or a carnal desire, is the real proof you are born again, has no connection to Christian Reality.

And one more for you Reader..... "Paul tells you to put on the Armour of God" so that you can "STAND" against the temptations....of your FLESH.

So, if you never, as some deceived Charismatics teach, have any more desires for the carnal, the you would not need to put on spiritual armour =to Stand against the Temptations of this World, ....would you?


What God provides is VICTORY over your Flesh, because your Flesh is never going to leave you alone, even tho its crucified with Christ.
Paul teaches it like this...... When the law's dominion had him... when he was trying to stop sinning by WILLPOWER< he found himself in this situation....."oh wretched man that i am"". How can i be delivered from my carnality, my LUST.....this BODY of DEATH".
And he learned that the problem was.....when you resist sin by will, the Law's dominion causes you to want it more and you fall into it more.
"the POWER OF SIN = IS THE LAW"...
= "that which i would not do,,,,,I DO IT"..
See that?
That is what happens when you try to fight the good fight in your own power.
= 100% failure rate.
But once Paul learned to stop resisting the Carnal, and live in God's Grace, (Right Believing) He found in THERE the "Christ always gives me the Victory" over the lust and the carnal and the "body of death".
So, when we want to stop living and failing in that battle, (sinning and confessing and repenting) = we find victory over it through the Power of Christ, and not by trying to stop sinning by will power.
Or as Jesus told you....>"apart from ME, you can do NOTHING">.
In other words, you can't live the holy life by trying to live it.....You can only live it by the Power of Christ, empowering you to live it.

Its like this......to fight the good fight and win, is to REST in the Grace of God.

"its not by might".....that is your self effort......"it's by GOD's Spirit".. and that is found when you REST in God's Grace.

The desire to sin is in the sin nature. By crucifying the old nature on the cross, Jesus gives us a new nature, free from the desire to sin, and filled with His Spirit. Then temptations do not attract us, and we can know to quickly turn away, and never let our minds wander to dwelling on anything that could lead to sin.

 

[Behold]

The desire to sin is in the sin nature. By crucifying the old nature on the cross, Jesus gives us a new nature, free from the desire to sin, and filled with His Spirit. Then temptations do not attract us, and we can know to quickly turn away, and never let our minds wander to dwelling on anything that could lead to sin.

As long as you are in the body, the flesh will always attract you, towards "the world"... "the lust of the eye".
So stop teaching nonsense.
When you get the new body, you will no longer have to "stand against" your temptations, that are connected to your flesh that are both powered by the Law and charged by the Devil.

Paul speaks of the temptations in his flesh.
So, to be free of this, you have to understand a principle, that Jesus spoke about when He said that the Devil found nothing IN Him.
See, there is a dividing line, spiritually, between being tempted and mentally committing to it.
Understand Reader that you commit the sin in you head before you do it with your body.
Temptations dont bear the fruit of corruption unless we commit to it. And we do this when we dwell on it, mentally, past the point of the temptation.
Christ gives us the power to not commit to it, mentally, but as long as we are in the flesh we need the Power of Christ to NOT Commit to it mentally, to commit to the lust that operates as our flesh in our minds.

 

[marks]

When you mock the Word of God and what it says (the only Truth), the alternative is fairy tales, or more precise, false doctrines.

You may accuse me of mocking God or the Bible, but I find such words offensive. How dare you! I never talk to you the way you talk to me, and you claiming no sin!

Yet you accuse me of mocking the Bible? You obviously don't know me, and don't have a clue what makes me tick.

It it really true? Is your only available response insults?

 

[CharismaticLady]

Paul speaks of the temptations in his flesh.

Where is your scriptural backup? Your word means nothing.

 

[marks]

The Work of Jesus renders the Laws of Moses useless. And by the way, anyone who attempts to live by Laws written upon stone, or even the old Moral Law (the third state of the Law), they remain cursed.

According to @CharismaticLady , violation of the OT Laws which were punished by death are the "sins unto death" that no Christian commits. The violation of the other laws are the "sins not unto death", that the Believer might inadvertantly commit. However, if they do happen to commit those sins, they can be forgiven IF IF IF they forgive others who have offended them. Otherwise they risk the return to spiritual death.

This is what you believe also?

Much love!

 

[marks]

Then let it go. I promise this one thing to you, and it is that there is no way she will ever go backward in her theology. If I were you, I'd cast aside your previous knowledge and listen to her. Try to find a way to make what she says "fit." - That is Biblical Wisdom.

I understand that I'm not likely to provide the verbage that changes CL's views. However, I am still interested in exploring those views, and in particular, showing whether they agree with Scripture or not, if only for the benefit of other readers.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Where is your scriptural backup? Your word means nothing.

1 Corinthians 9
26 I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air:
27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Try to find a way to make what she says "fit." - That is Biblical Wisdom.

This I would disagree with. Rather, we should compare a person's doctrine with Scripture to see IF it fits. I think they call that being a good Berean.

We need to know all the Scriptures, and not just our pet passages. These things are all answered in the Bible.

Take for example the question about whether Paul continued to deal with his flesh. According to CL, no. Yet according to Paul, yes, and you'll know that IF you know your Bible.

And that knowledge will be useful to you IF you are willing to set aside what you may already think, and be willing to find a way to make the Scriptures "fit".

Much love!

 

[marks]

The Work of Jesus renders the Laws of Moses useless. And by the way, anyone who attempts to live by Laws written upon stone, or even the old Moral Law (the third state of the Law), they remain cursed.

Even if you are born again but confused?

Or do you mean if someone attempts to be justified by the Law?

Much love!

 

[2nd Timothy Group]

According to @CharismaticLady, violation of the OT Laws which were punished by death are the "sins unto death" that no Christian commits. The violation of the other laws are the "sins not unto death", that the Believer might inadvertently commit. However, if they do happen to commit those sins, they can be forgiven IF IF IF they forgive others who have offended them. Otherwise, they risk the return to spiritual death.

This is what you believe also?

Much love!

What is your agenda? Are you trying to cause conflict between @CharismaticLady and myself?

Look, there are no two people alive that believe the exact same things. Even apostles had conflict with their belief systems. Therefore, I'm not going down this road of pitting one against another. I beg of you to find a different way of communicating.

I care about you and want what is best for you.

 

[2nd Timothy Group]

I understand that I'm not likely to provide the verbage that changes CL's views. However, I am still interested in exploring those views, and in particular, showing whether they agree with Scripture or not, if only for the benefit of other readers.

Much love!

But if what you are doing is causing her harm and distress, I am asking that you find a different way. It is important that we not embitter the Hearts of those who seem, at least, genuine in their desire to know the Lord. @CharismaticLady knows the Lord, so if you can, and if you disagree with her, build and gain her trust by being kind and gentle. If you can build her trust, then perhaps she will be more inclined to listen to you and engage. But, as it seems clear, she does not trust you. Be kind . . . it will pay off in the future.

 

[2nd Timothy Group]

This I would disagree with. Rather, we should compare a person's doctrine with Scripture to see IF it fits. I think they call that being a good Berean.

Okie doke.

 

[2nd Timothy Group]

Even if you are born again but confused?

Or do you mean if someone attempts to be justified by the Law?

Nope. I will simply just supply the Word of God. It is quite clear. From the below passage, it would be wise to begin a study on this topic for yourself. We cannot seem to convince you of anything, so perhaps the Word of God will.

Galatians 3:10-12 HNV - 10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under a curse. For it is written, "Cursed is everyone who doesn't continue in all things that are written in the book of the law, to do them." 11 Now that no man is justified by the law before God is evident, for, "The righteous will live by faith." 12 The law is not of faith, but, "The man who does them will live by them."

 

[CharismaticLady]

The violation of the other laws are the "sins not unto death"

marks, I didn't say that. Sins not unto death are trespasses unwittingly committed. Leviticus 5:15. Laws of any kind would be willfully committed, because they are "written." And now written on our hearts. It is the result of immature fruit of the Spirit that causes trespasses, but once fruit is matured, trespasses become less and less. Even long-suffering with you.