The Thing About Prophecy

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ScottA

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This is a mystery only fully revealed in our time:

The biblical fact that all is "as it is written", means that much of prophecy is not "prediction", but is rather declaration...or "postdiction." That is: "explanation [after] the fact." Meaning that many of the events thought to be in the future...are not, but are past.

This is why the spirit of prophecy begins with the testimony of Jesus..."before the foundation of the world."

Which, if taken to heart and fully understood, will change much of what was once believed as we are lead into all truth, the promise of Christ for our time.
 
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Keraz

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It seems to me that many people don’t see how the Bible prophesies tie together to make a whole coherent picture.

There is no doubt that Daniel and Revelation have many parallel prophesies, that can also be seen; giving more details, in the other Bible books.

Regarding a One World Government: This concept has been around for a long time and many overt and covert movements have promoted it. That such a political entity will happen, led by a charismatic man known to us as the Anti-Christ, is quite clearly prophesied in Daniel 7:23-24 and described in Daniel 11:21-45, paralleled in Revelation 17:12-13 and described in Revelation 13:1-18.

The problem the promoters of the OWG have now, is the refusal of the nations to relinquish their sovereignty. We all prefer to do our own thing and with the current world situation, this works OK. There are hiccups with nations that mismanage their economies, but it is against the interests of the IMF and the ‘gnomes of Zurich’ to allow a nation to go bankrupt.

So, in order to force the nations to agree to a OWG; initially 10 regions, governed by 10 Presidents*, they know there has to be some kind of dramatic event to start this process. That planned event is to be a nuke attack in the Middle East. A mini WW3, that will shake up the world and have the beneficial effect of solving the Palestinian/ Israel conflict - they would both be gone!

Iran will proceed with their avowed plans to wipe Israel off the map and the recent developments in Syria, Gaza and Israel, is an indication of how close we are to this attack. They know such an attack will result in their own destruction, but they will do it, as their Satanic religion pushes them into it. Ezekiel 35:6, Proverbs 8:32

However, it won’t be retaliation by Israel or America that will thwart this secret attack by Iran and her allies onto Israel, the Lord will take action and He will destroy them all, Psalms 11:4-6, Psalms 83, 2 Peter 3:7, virtually depopulating the entire Middle East region. Ezekiel 7:14, Ezekiel 30:2-5, Jeremiah 10:18, Jeremiah 49:35, Isaiah 34:5, Zephaniah 1:14-18 & 2:4-5 and many other prophesies about the terrible Day of the Lord’s fiery wrath.

The rest of the world will mostly survive and as things will be then, agreement on a OWG will be easy. Not quite as planned, but a similar result!

What happens to all the true believers in the Lord? Raptured to heaven? Nowhere does the Bible say that will happen at any time. 1 Peter 3:12 says it clearly; it will be the fiery test of our faith and we must stand firm, believing in His protection.

Then: look up, for our redemption is near. Luke 21:25-28 Jesus will Return soon.


*Google - 10 world regions.
 

GISMYS_7

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It seems to me that many people don’t see how the Bible prophesies tie together to make a whole coherent picture.

There is no doubt that Daniel and Revelation have many parallel prophesies, that can also be seen; giving more details, in the other Bible books.

Regarding a One World Government: This concept has been around for a long time and many overt and covert movements have promoted it. That such a political entity will happen, led by a charismatic man known to us as the Anti-Christ, is quite clearly prophesied in Daniel 7:23-24 and described in Daniel 11:21-45, paralleled in Revelation 17:12-13 and described in Revelation 13:1-18.

The problem the promoters of the OWG have now, is the refusal of the nations to relinquish their sovereignty. We all prefer to do our own thing and with the current world situation, this works OK. There are hiccups with nations that mismanage their economies, but it is against the interests of the IMF and the ‘gnomes of Zurich’ to allow a nation to go bankrupt.

So, in order to force the nations to agree to a OWG; initially 10 regions, governed by 10 Presidents*, they know there has to be some kind of dramatic event to start this process. That planned event is to be a nuke attack in the Middle East. A mini WW3, that will shake up the world and have the beneficial effect of solving the Palestinian/ Israel conflict - they would both be gone!

Iran will proceed with their avowed plans to wipe Israel off the map and the recent developments in Syria, Gaza and Israel, is an indication of how close we are to this attack. They know such an attack will result in their own destruction, but they will do it, as their Satanic religion pushes them into it. Ezekiel 35:6, Proverbs 8:32

However, it won’t be retaliation by Israel or America that will thwart this secret attack by Iran and her allies onto Israel, the Lord will take action and He will destroy them all, Psalms 11:4-6, Psalms 83, 2 Peter 3:7, virtually depopulating the entire Middle East region. Ezekiel 7:14, Ezekiel 30:2-5, Jeremiah 10:18, Jeremiah 49:35, Isaiah 34:5, Zephaniah 1:14-18 & 2:4-5 and many other prophesies about the terrible Day of the Lord’s fiery wrath.

The rest of the world will mostly survive and as things will be then, agreement on a OWG will be easy. Not quite as planned, but a similar result!

What happens to all the true believers in the Lord? Raptured to heaven? Nowhere does the Bible say that will happen at any time. 1 Peter 3:12 says it clearly; it will be the fiery test of our faith and we must stand firm, believing in His protection.

Then: look up, for our redemption is near. Luke 21:25-28 Jesus will Return soon.


*Google - 10 world regions.

YES!! Those left behind will face tests and tribulation judgments but we born-again believers that are looking for the rapture will not face God's wrath.
1 Thessalonians 5:9 NKJV - For God did not appoint us to wrath, - Bible Gateway For God did not appoint us to wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ, For God did not appoint us to wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ.
Luke 21:36
“Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.”
 

shortangel

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it all depends on the 3 views of prophesy that you choose to believe & have discernment on, there are many differnt views on the book of Rev & what it might all mean :)
 
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Truth7t7

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Meaning that many of the events thought to be in the future...are not, but are past.

This is why the spirit of prophecy begins with the testimony of Jesus..."before the foundation of the world."

Which, if taken to heart and fully understood, will change much of what was once believed as we are lead into all truth, the promise of Christ for our time.
Preterism on display, and in your case (Full Preterism) in denial of a future literal, visible, coming of Jesus Christ in the heavens, witnessed by human eyes upon earth

Matthew 24:30KJV
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Revelation 1:7KJV
7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.
 

Truth7t7

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YES!! Those left behind will face tests and tribulation judgments but we born-again believers that are looking for the rapture will not face God's wrath.
1 Thessalonians 5:9 NKJV - For God did not appoint us to wrath, - Bible Gateway For God did not appoint us to wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ, For God did not appoint us to wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ.
Luke 21:36
“Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.”
No such thing as a pre-trib rapture as many believe and teach, it's a fabricated fairy tale of man, namely John N. Darby 1830's and C.I. Scofield 1909, better known as dispensationalism
 
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Hidden In Him

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This is a mystery only fully revealed in our time:

The biblical fact that all is "as it is written", means that much of prophecy is not "prediction", but is rather declaration...or "postdiction." That is: "explanation [after] the fact." Meaning that many of the events thought to be in the future...are not, but are past.

This is why the spirit of prophecy begins with the testimony of Jesus..."before the foundation of the world."

Which, if taken to heart and fully understood, will change much of what was once believed as we are lead into all truth, the promise of Christ for our time.

Hi Scott.

It's interesting that you should post this today/ yesterday, because I have a friend who believes in much the same thing - that prophecy is "not predictive" - and he has been preaching this for many years now. But he related to me a dream he had just the other day, and it reveals where he is actually making his mistake. He has not signed off on this interpretation and likely won't, LoL, but it is precisely what the Lord is and has been trying to get over to him on the matter of prophecy, so I will repost it here. I think it's very telling.
______________

Assuming, of course, that you had this dream and related it accurately, it shines the light on a particular mistake I think you and others make when it comes to how the gift of prophecy actually operates...

- "I came home on my bicycle with a small bag of shopping, and when I got home I suddenly thought that I had left a much larger bag of shopping back in the supermarket."

Food in dreams and in Biblical symbolism represents various kinds of spiritual food, such as when the Lord told His disciples, "Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his master made ruler over his household, to give them food in due season?" The small bag represents what you've been receiving when it comes to the prophetic, and the larger bag represents what you have unfortunately not been receiving. This likely refers to how you receive prophetic words given on the local level but reject the idea that God still speaks prophetically to the nations.

- "So I asked my room mate to borrow his car and looked through the window and saw it was a 1901 vintage car, so I asked my friend if it was operated like a normal car."

Looking through windows is a reference to seeing things from a prophetic point of view, and relates specifically to what I'm sharing with you here. Modes of transportation such as bicycles, cars, buses, planes, etc. represent ministries, with cars representing stronger ministries because you can "transport" more people to a new place spiritually than on a bike. So the message is the same again. You have embraced the bicycle but are unfamiliar with the vintage car. Older cars represent older forms of ministry, and the 1901 vintage car likely corresponds with the Azusa Street Revival of 1901, where prophecy was restored to the New Testament church, and by that I mean predictive prophecy. This is why you are asking in the dream how it works, and if it is "operated like a normal car."

- "Then I realized that all I had was the small bag of shopping and didn't have to panic."

There actually IS no need to panic, but the important point to retain here is that there is a larger bag of spiritual food connected to the prophetic gift, as confirmed by the next sentence:

- "When I turned back to the table I saw a large bag of shopping containing things I had never bought, and I thought I would have to return it back to the supermarket to get it back to its rightful owner."

That there were things in this bag that "you had never bought" is a reference to there being many things about predictive prophecy that you have never subscribed to and didn't believe were of God, so you have sought to "return them," thinking that sort of thing does not belong to you.

- "Then a live weasel came out of the bag, and so I picked up and put it out the door. Then I woke up."

And this is the message of the dream right here. Weasels have a reputation for being sneaky, and they are cunning. They will steal. In this context it means that false prophets will steal from you spiritually, i.e. steal your food. So what you need to do now is "take the weasel out of the bag, and put it out the door." There are indeed spiritual weasels in the modern prophetic movement, ones who need to be eliminated from what we receive from God. This is what I do. I'm extremely selective about who I listen to. I can count them on one hand, in fact. But there is a larger grocery bag of genuine spiritual food just sitting there as well, so what you have to do is simply get the weasel out. In essence, the message is not to throw the baby out with the bathwater. What you need to do is simply eliminate what is false but keep what is good.
 
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ScottA

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Preterism on display, and in your case (Full Preterism) in denial of a future literal, visible, coming of Jesus Christ in the heavens, witnessed by human eyes upon earth

Matthew 24:30KJV
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Revelation 1:7KJV
7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.
And like the Priests and Pharisees of Jesus's time, who knew the scriptures but had it all wrong, many with the best of intentions even now work against what is actually true unbeknownst to them, to their own shame. :( These are those of whom Jesus spoke, saying He would "cut them in two and give them their portion with the hypocrites."
 

ScottA

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Hi Scott.

It's interesting that you should post this today/ yesterday, because I have a friend who believes in much the same thing - that prophecy is "not predictive" - and he has been preaching this for many years now. But he related to me a dream he had just the other day, and it reveals where he is actually making his mistake. He has not signed off on this interpretation and likely won't, LoL, but it is precisely what the Lord is and has been trying to get over to him on the matter of prophecy, so I will repost it here. I think it's very telling.
______________

Assuming, of course, that you had this dream and related it accurately, it shines the light on a particular mistake I think you and others make when it comes to how the gift of prophecy actually operates...

- "I came home on my bicycle with a small bag of shopping, and when I got home I suddenly thought that I had left a much larger bag of shopping back in the supermarket."

Food in dreams and in Biblical symbolism represents various kinds of spiritual food, such as when the Lord told His disciples, "Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his master made ruler over his household, to give them food in due season?" The small bag represents what you've been receiving when it comes to the prophetic, and the larger bag represents what you have unfortunately not been receiving. This likely refers to how you receive prophetic words given on the local level but reject the idea that God still speaks prophetically to the nations.

- "So I asked my room mate to borrow his car and looked through the window and saw it was a 1901 vintage car, so I asked my friend if it was operated like a normal car."

Looking through windows is a reference to seeing things from a prophetic point of view, and relates specifically to what I'm sharing with you here. Modes of transportation such as bicycles, cars, buses, planes, etc. represent ministries, with cars representing stronger ministries because you can "transport" more people to a new place spiritually than on a bike. So the message is the same again. You have embraced the bicycle but are unfamiliar with the vintage car. Older cars represent older forms of ministry, and the 1901 vintage car likely corresponds with the Azusa Street Revival of 1901, where prophecy was restored to the New Testament church, and by that I mean predictive prophecy. This is why you are asking in the dream how it works, and if it is "operated like a normal car."

- "Then I realized that all I had was the small bag of shopping and didn't have to panic."

There actually IS no need to panic, but the important point to retain here is that there is a larger bag of spiritual food connected to the prophetic gift, as confirmed by the next sentence:

- "When I turned back to the table I saw a large bag of shopping containing things I had never bought, and I thought I would have to return it back to the supermarket to get it back to its rightful owner."

That there were things in this bag that "you had never bought" is a reference to there being many things about predictive prophecy that you have never subscribed to and didn't believe were of God, so you have sought to "return them," thinking that sort of thing does not belong to you.

- "Then a live weasel came out of the bag, and so I picked up and put it out the door. Then I woke up."

And this is the message of the dream right here. Weasels have a reputation for being sneaky, and they are cunning. They will steal. In this context it means that false prophets will steal from you spiritually, i.e. steal your food. So what you need to do now is "take the weasel out of the bag, and put it out the door." There are indeed spiritual weasels in the modern prophetic movement, Watchman, ones who need to be eliminated from what we receive from God. This is what I do. I'm extremely selective about who I listen to. I can count them on one hand, in fact. But there is a larger grocery bag of genuine spiritual food just sitting there as well, so what you have to do is simply get the weasel out. In essence, the message is not to throw the baby out with the bathwater. What you need to do is simply eliminate what is false but keep what is good.
Very interesting indeed.

The interpretation of the dream is this:

The small bag is the narrow way, and the large bag the way of the many. The old car is not the old way, but the new vehicle of combustion, wherein the weasel has been, which shall be taken out.
 

Hidden In Him

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Very interesting indeed.

The interpretation of the dream is this:

The small bag is the narrow way, and the large bag the way of the many. The old car is not the old way, but the new vehicle of combustion, wherein the weasel has been, which shall be taken out.


It would appear we may disagree then. I've seen older cars - like race cars from the 1950s and 60s - used in dreams before, and they consistently represent those who abide by older methods of ministry. Keep in mind, this is likely why the Lord specifically dated the "vintage car" to 1901, which was the start of the modern Pentecostal movement.

To quote one article on it:

With the advent of modern Pentecostalism, the gift of prophecy exploded again among Christians who received the baptism in the Holy Spirit accompanied by the gift of tongues. The earliest Pentecostals were sure that all of the gifts of the Spirit were being restored to the church including the gift of prophecy.

Although tongues received most of the attention, Pentecostals soon began to see tongues and interpretation as being equal to prophecy (based on 1 Cor. 14: 5). Many cases of tongues, with the attendant interpretation, became directive prophecies for the thousands of missionaries and evangelists who went to the far corners of the earth in the wake of the Azusa Street revival.

When William J. Seymour sent his followers forth, they usually went with a personal prophecy from Seymour. Several major Pentecostal missions thrusts came as a result of these and other prophecies.

For instance, the Pentecostal revival in Chile came partly as a result of a prophecy given by a poor night watchman to the pastor of the Valparaiso Methodist Church, W.C. Hoover. The prophecy called on the most spiritual members of the church to pray each day at the 5 p.m. teatime.

"I intend to baptize you with tongues of fire" was the burden of the prophecy. In 1909 a monumental revival broke out in the church with many cases of prophecies, dreams, visions and speaking in tongues.

After the Methodist authorities rejected the revival in a trial proceeding in September of 1909, Hoover and 37 Chilean former Methodists organized the Pentecostal Methodist Church. Today the latest government census credits the Pentecostal Methodist Church with having 2.5 million members in Chile.
 

ScottA

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It seems to me that many people don’t see how the Bible prophesies tie together to make a whole coherent picture.

There is no doubt that Daniel and Revelation have many parallel prophesies, that can also be seen; giving more details, in the other Bible books.

Regarding a One World Government: This concept has been around for a long time and many overt and covert movements have promoted it. That such a political entity will happen, led by a charismatic man known to us as the Anti-Christ, is quite clearly prophesied in Daniel 7:23-24 and described in Daniel 11:21-45, paralleled in Revelation 17:12-13 and described in Revelation 13:1-18.

The problem the promoters of the OWG have now, is the refusal of the nations to relinquish their sovereignty. We all prefer to do our own thing and with the current world situation, this works OK. There are hiccups with nations that mismanage their economies, but it is against the interests of the IMF and the ‘gnomes of Zurich’ to allow a nation to go bankrupt.

So, in order to force the nations to agree to a OWG; initially 10 regions, governed by 10 Presidents*, they know there has to be some kind of dramatic event to start this process. That planned event is to be a nuke attack in the Middle East. A mini WW3, that will shake up the world and have the beneficial effect of solving the Palestinian/ Israel conflict - they would both be gone!

Iran will proceed with their avowed plans to wipe Israel off the map and the recent developments in Syria, Gaza and Israel, is an indication of how close we are to this attack. They know such an attack will result in their own destruction, but they will do it, as their Satanic religion pushes them into it. Ezekiel 35:6, Proverbs 8:32

However, it won’t be retaliation by Israel or America that will thwart this secret attack by Iran and her allies onto Israel, the Lord will take action and He will destroy them all, Psalms 11:4-6, Psalms 83, 2 Peter 3:7, virtually depopulating the entire Middle East region. Ezekiel 7:14, Ezekiel 30:2-5, Jeremiah 10:18, Jeremiah 49:35, Isaiah 34:5, Zephaniah 1:14-18 & 2:4-5 and many other prophesies about the terrible Day of the Lord’s fiery wrath.

The rest of the world will mostly survive and as things will be then, agreement on a OWG will be easy. Not quite as planned, but a similar result!

What happens to all the true believers in the Lord? Raptured to heaven? Nowhere does the Bible say that will happen at any time. 1 Peter 3:12 says it clearly; it will be the fiery test of our faith and we must stand firm, believing in His protection.

Then: look up, for our redemption is near. Luke 21:25-28 Jesus will Return soon.


*Google - 10 world regions.
The problem here, is that by assuming that these prophesies are future, it goes against what Jesus said about the times being "as in the days of Noah." Which times are more like the present by the general state of oblivion...than any smaller would-be act of history seeming to repeat itself.

But I tell you: What unfolded until His first coming, is now refolded until He is come again.
 
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Truth7t7

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The problem here, is that by assuming that these prophesies are future, it goes against what Jesus said about the times being "as in the days of Noah." Which times are more like the present by the general state of oblivion...than any smaller would-be act of history seeming to repeat itself.
Scott's Preterism On Display

2 Peter 3:3-7KJV
3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,
4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.
5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:
6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:
7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
 

ScottA

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It would appear we may disagree then. I've seen older cars - like race cars from the 1950s and 60s - used in dreams before, and they consistently represent those who abide by older methods of ministry. Keep in mind, this is likely why the Lord specifically dated the "vintage car" to 1901, which was the start of the modern Pentecostal movement.

To quote one article on it:

With the advent of modern Pentecostalism, the gift of prophecy exploded again among Christians who received the baptism in the Holy Spirit accompanied by the gift of tongues. The earliest Pentecostals were sure that all of the gifts of the Spirit were being restored to the church including the gift of prophecy.

Although tongues received most of the attention, Pentecostals soon began to see tongues and interpretation as being equal to prophecy (based on 1 Cor. 14: 5). Many cases of tongues, with the attendant interpretation, became directive prophecies for the thousands of missionaries and evangelists who went to the far corners of the earth in the wake of the Azusa Street revival.

When William J. Seymour sent his followers forth, they usually went with a personal prophecy from Seymour. Several major Pentecostal missions thrusts came as a result of these and other prophecies.

For instance, the Pentecostal revival in Chile came partly as a result of a prophecy given by a poor night watchman to the pastor of the Valparaiso Methodist Church, W.C. Hoover. The prophecy called on the most spiritual members of the church to pray each day at the 5 p.m. teatime.

"I intend to baptize you with tongues of fire" was the burden of the prophecy. In 1909 a monumental revival broke out in the church with many cases of prophecies, dreams, visions and speaking in tongues.

After the Methodist authorities rejected the revival in a trial proceeding in September of 1909, Hoover and 37 Chilean former Methodists organized the Pentecostal Methodist Church. Today the latest government census credits the Pentecostal Methodist Church with having 2.5 million members in Chile.
"When Were Cars Invented? The 1901 Mercedes, designed by Wilhelm Maybach for Daimler Motoren Gesellschaft, deserves credit for being the first modern motorcar in all essentials."​
 
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ScottA

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Scott's Preterism On Display

2 Peter 3:3-7KJV
3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,
4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.
5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:
6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:
7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
Yes...I quote Jesus, and YOU scoff.

As for Preterism, I don't qualify. Apparently you don't know the proper definition. Go figure.
 
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Truth7t7

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Yes...I quote Jesus, and YOU scoff.

As for Preterism, I don't qualify. Apparently you don't know the proper definition. Go figure.
Merriam-Webster
Definition of preterist

in Christianity : one who holds that the prophecies in the Bible about the End Times have already been fulfilled
 
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ScottA

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Merriam-Webster
Definition of preterist

in Christianity : one who holds that the prophecies in the Bible about the End Times have already been fulfilled
On second thought, even though you have wrongly identified my position as Preterism...let's get into that either/or be dammed mind of yours.

How does that mind of yours rationalize the timing of "the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world?"
 
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Timtofly

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Preterism is bias based on a specific date in history. Some historist are preterist when obsessed with that particular date. Some futurist are preterist when stuck in a rut specifically about that date. Amil are preterist when they toss every Scripture that does not fit their paradigm into that date. Some are just really partial about that date, some more than others, and some 110%.

Many are not preterist, they just refuse reality altogether.
 

Truth7t7

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On second thought, even though you have wrongly identified my position as Preterism...let's get into that either/or be dammed mind of yours.

How does that mind of yours rationalize the timing of "the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world?"
Isaiah 44:6KJV
6 Thus saith the Lord the King of Israel, and his redeemer the Lord of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.

Revelation 1:8KJV
8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.