Understanding the Prophecy of 70 Weeks

[Zao is life]

Read your Bible as the New Jerusalem comes down after the 1000 Years...
The millennium is a 1,000-year period when the righteous will reign with Christ in heaven. Revelation 20:4
Judging the wicked dead will be part of the work of reigning with Christ. Revelation 20:6;
The millennial period is between the two resurrections. Revelation 20:4-6
Satan will be confined to earth during it. Revelation 20:1-3, 7
The earth will be desolate during this 1000 year period. Revelation 20:1
After the 1000 year millennium, Christ and the righteous will return to earth in the Holy City the New Jerusalem. The wicked will be resurrected at this time and Satan will lead them in an attack on the City. Finally all sin and sinners will be destroyed.

When Jesus comes at the end of the world to collect His Saints at the Second Coming, He gathers them together from all the parts of the earth. We see what Jesus told His disciples about His Second Coming:

29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. Matthew 24:29-31.


24 But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light,
25 And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.
26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.
27 And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven. Mark 13:24-27.

When Jesus comes with power and glory at His second coming, the wicked will be anxious, perplexed, and they will be fearful of what is going to happen to them. The righteous, on the other hand, will look up to see Christ with great joy and happiness, as their redemption is near. The righteous will come from everywhere, as they are scattered over all the face of the earth, so His angels will gather His elect and bring them together when Christ comes and the trumpet sounds.

So, the living righteous will be brought together, what about those who are dead? Paul comforts the Christians in Thessalonica who were concerned that people were starting to die who had expected to see Jesus come in their life-time.

13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
1 Thessalonians 4:13-14

So, Paul tells the Thessalonians that God will not forget those who have died. If we believe that Jesus has risen from the dead, we can believe that God will bring them with Him.It is clear from the next few verses that Jesus will not only take all the living elect, but He will also raise from the dead all of His saints who died, when He comes again, at His second coming, at the trump of God.

15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17

Looking at verses 16 and 17, we see that Jesus Himself comes down from heaven at His second coming. This is the big event at the end of the world when Jesus comes to get His people and take them back with Him. With a shout of the archangel's voice and the trumpet of God, the dead in Christ rise up first. Then, all who are still alive in Christ, are brought up together with those who had died in the clouds and they meet the Lord in the air to be always with Him.

It is at the second coming of Jesus, the time of the end, when both those saints who died and those who are alive, will be taken up into heaven. So, it is clear that when Paul says in verse 14 that when Jesus comes again, even those who sleep in Jesus will God take back to heaven with Him and so will we ever be with the Lord!

Looking at 1 Corinthians, we find that Paul is consistent. Jesus is the first fruit of those who have fallen asleep in Jesus and here again Paul says that the dead in Christ will be raised at the time of His coming:

20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.
21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. 1 Corinthians 15:20-23

Thank you Hobie.

I agree with you that New Jerusalem descending from God out of heaven can only mean that they were taken to heaven, those who were resurrected at the time of His coming down and sending out His angels to gather His elect (as you have also mentioned).​

All who have died in Christ, shall be made alive at Christ's second coming. It doesn't happen before His coming at all.

Yes, not sure if you misunderstood me as implying it did, but I agree with what you say above.

What you are saying in the first part above would be plausible if Revelation 5:10 did not say they will reign on the earth:

βασιλεύσει (He will reign) forever and ever: Revelation 11:15 (Christ).
βασιλεύσουσιν (they will reign) on the earth: Revelation 5:10 (those who overcome).
βασιλεύσουσιν (they will reign) with Christ a thousand years: Revelation 20:6 (those who overcame).
βασιλεύσουσιν (they will reign) forever and ever: Revelation 22:5:

One translation Revelation 5:10 that I read says "they will reign over the earth. It depends on whether or not it's legitimate to translate the Greek word epí that way:

Revelation 5:10 Interlinear: and didst make us to our God kings and priests, and we shall reign upon the earth.'

biblehub.com

The word epí is used in Acts 6:3 in reference to seven men being appointed "in charge of" or "appointed over" the business of seeing to it that the widows of the Greek disciples were not neglected.

So how we should interpret Revelation 5:10 - as reigning on the earth for a thousand years, or as reigning from heaven with Christ over the earth - will decide whether or not I might (or might not) agree with the rest of what you say below (because I would still have to give it a lot more thought and think about (if there may be) any other New Testament scriptures that possibly negate the idea you express below).

So I'd like to hear what you have to say about the word epí in Revelation 5:10 and whether or not you believe it should be read as the same word in Acts 6:3.​

So, scripture shows Jesus is taking all His people back to heaven. This marks the start of the 1000 years of the millennium which is the thousand-year reign of Christ with His saints in heaven between the first and second resurrections. During this time the wicked dead will be judged; the earth will be utterly desolate, without living human inhabitants, but occupied by Satan and his angels. At its close Christ with His saints and the Holy City will descend from heaven to earth.

Christ and the righteous will descend with the Holy City, the New Jerusalem. Revelation 21:1-5​

Interesting. I've never thought of it like this before now.

 

[ewq1938]

Read your Bible as the New Jerusalem comes down after the 1000 Years...
The millennium is a 1,000-year period when the righteous will reign with Christ in heaven. Revelation 20:4

On Earth not in Heeaven.


http://biblia.com/bible/nkjv/Revelation 20.4
Satan will be confined to earth during it. Revelation 20:1-3, 7

Satan will be confined to earth during it. Revelation 20:1-3, 7

No, he is confined to a pit and locked there. He has no access to the Earth at all because that's where the nations will be ruled over by Christ.


http://biblia.com/bible/nkjv/Revelation 20.1

After the 1000 year millennium, Christ and the righteous will return to earth in the Holy City the New Jerusalem. The wicked will be resurrected at this time and Satan will lead them in an attack on the City. Finally all sin and sinners will be destroyed.

They try to attack old Jerusalem. NJ doesn't come down until after the GWTJ is over.

 

[Dave Watchman]

I'm glad we're still on speaking terms Davy. That's how the world will know that we are His Disciples.

The main reason I think these seven heads are important to understand is that with them we can get a chronology in time, and a couple of actual dates.

The "seven heads" are not men period. That's what I'm saying.

The ones mentioned in Revelation 17:10 are "kings"... NOT the "seven heads". Just because the number 7 about the seven kings matches the number 7 about the "seven heads" does not mean they are both about the same thing...

Rev 17:10
10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.
KJV

Nope. They are all of the same types of things. And at the same time are seven heads, and seven kings, and seven hills or mountains. The ones mentioned in Revelation 17 are the same ones that are part of the composite beast in Chapter 13.

I can also tell you that every person on earth who has ever lived, even back in the days of Noah, can trace a connection to at least one of these seven heads.

And here's the reason I say that... for in the next verse...

Rev 17:11
11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.
KJV

That shows there are 8 kings in total being shown John, so those 'kings' are not the "seven heads". The "seven heads" are "seven mountains", which points to 7 geographic regions upon the earth. That is what Rev.17:1 shows the symbolic whore sits over, described by the 'waters' of Rev.17:15.

The "seven heads" are "seven mountains", and at the same time they are seven kings.

A "king" can also be something which is preeminent in it's class. Like Budweiser is the "king" of beers, Islam is the "king" of religious belief systems in the middle east.

And how can 7 geographic regions all have "a blasphemous name" written on them?

Having "a blasphemous name" written on their heads should give a hint they have something to do with religion, or belief systems.

One could even say 7 continents.

This one's not all that bad of an idea, when John spoke with the angel the American Continent, the Americas, hadn't really been discovered yet.

Even though I see many problems of doctrine espoused by today's popes, and the Catholic Church, I also see false doctrine espoused in Protestant Churches too. Remember that Jesus had no rebuke for only 2 out of 7 Churches in Asia per Rev.2 & 3.

Here you have come the closest in solving the riddle.

You have named 2 out of the 7 heads on the composite beast, and came the closest to winning the internet today.

But it gets touchy when the composite beast is watching, and it gets too close to home.

Protestantism, the "other" that was not yet come when John was speaking with the angel in 95AD, started out great in his beginnings back in 1517, but it didn't seem to take that long for it all to fall.

The 8th king, (one of the 7), is Lucifer's theocratic church/state government. A bad church, the harlot church, with whom the kings of the earth have committed sexual immorality, and with the wine of whose sexual immorality the dwellers on earth have become drunk.

The simplest way to understand the composite beast is as church and state, who can make war with that?

"Then another sign appeared in heaven: an enormous red dragon with seven heads and ten horns and seven crowns on its heads. - Revelation 12:3​

The version of it in the middles ages had the crowns on the heads, (church), our version of it today has the crowns moved over to the horns, (state).

"And I saw a beast coming out of the sea. It had ten horns and seven heads, with ten crowns on its horns, and on each head a blasphemous name. - Revelation 13:1​

This is an example that gives a glimpse of it in action, this is a list I pulled from a Time article on the first nations voting in same sex marriage laws.

1) The Netherlands (2000)
2) Belgium (2003)
3) Canada (2005)
4) Spain (2005)
5) South Africa (2006)
6) Norway (2009)
7) Sweden (2009)
8) Argentina (2010)
9) Iceland (2010)
10) Portugal (2010)
11) Denmark (2012)
12) Brazil (2013)
13) England and Wales (2013)
14) France (2013)
15) New Zealand (2013)
16) Uruguay (2013)
17) Luxembourg (2014)
18) Scotland (2014)
19) Finland: (signed 2015, effective 2017)
20) Ireland: (2015)
21) United States: (2015)<-------1290 Days------->Sun/Moon
21) United States: (2015)<-------1290 Days------->EofW

"With her the kings of the earth committed adultery, and the inhabitants of the earth were intoxicated with the wine of her adulteries.​

Peaceful Sabbath.

 

[Davy]

Nope. They are all of the same types of things. And at the same time are seven heads, and seven kings, and seven hills or mountains. The ones mentioned in Revelation 17 are the same ones that are part of the composite beast in Chapter 13.

Well, NO, they are not the same thing.

The subject of the 'beast kingdom' and 'beast king' changes in Rev.17 back and forth, so if one is not paying attention, they will lose what the subject is about.

Rev.13 points to both the 'beast' kingdom, and beast king concepts as does the Book of Daniel. Rev.13:1 is the 'beast kingdom' idea, and Rev.13:11 forward is the 'beast king' idea using the phrase "another beast", meaning a 2nd beast. Thus there are TWO different beast ideas, not just One. Likewise in the Book of Daniel, there are FOUR beasts mentioned representing 'kingdoms'. And in Dan.4, which is a Chapter that Nebuchadnezzar himself wrote, describes when God punished him and made him live like a beast in the wild; thus Neb as a king over a beast kingdom represented the 'beast king' idea.

Rev.17:8 - 'beast king' - Satan
Rev.17:9 - 'beast kingdom' - the "seven heads" of Rev.13:1, areas of the earth
Rev.17:10 - 'beast kings' - 6 that are past history, the 7th not yet come (trib time).
Rev.17:11 - final 'beast king' - Satan as 8th king loosed after Christ's future 1,000 years reign.
Rev.17:12 - 'beast kingdom' - the "ten horns" of Rev.13:1.
Rev.17:13 - 'beast kingdom' and 'beast king', the "ten horns" give their power to the "beast" king, Satan. That is about the ten horns of Dan.7 with another "little horn" that comes up among them and takes power.

I can also tell you that every person on earth who has ever lived, even back in the days of Noah, can trace a connection to at least one of these seven heads.

That's a wild assumption that has no truth to it. Prior to the "seven heads" mentioned in Rev.13:1, it is ONLY mentioned in Rev.12:3 which is pointing back to the time when Satan drew a third of the "stars" (angels) to earth when he first rebelled against God. That was at a time even prior to Adam, so I well know you don't understand these things at all.

The "seven heads" are "seven mountains", and at the same time they are seven kings.

That signals to me that someone isn't using a 'full deck' here, so no, I don't care to continue this conversation with you. And this does NOT mean any such idea that I am not a Christian, which claiming such a thing as that is an insult anyway, seeing how I've been presenting Bible Scripture with clarity while you instead are pushing a bunch of malarkey mixed in with doctrines of men.

 

[Dave Watchman]

Well, NO, they are not the same thing.

The subject of the 'beast kingdom' and 'beast king' changes in Rev.17 back and forth, so if one is not paying attention, they will lose what the subject is about.

Rev.13 points to both the 'beast' kingdom, and beast king concepts as does the Book of Daniel. Rev.13:1 is the 'beast kingdom' idea, and Rev.13:11 forward is the 'beast king' idea using the phrase "another beast", meaning a 2nd beast. Thus there are TWO different beast ideas, not just One. Likewise in the Book of Daniel, there are FOUR beasts mentioned representing 'kingdoms'. And in Dan.4, which is a Chapter that Nebuchadnezzar himself wrote, describes when God punished him and made him live like a beast in the wild; thus Neb as a king over a beast kingdom represented the 'beast king' idea.

Rev.17:8 - 'beast king' - Satan
Rev.17:9 - 'beast kingdom' - the "seven heads" of Rev.13:1, areas of the earth
Rev.17:10 - 'beast kings' - 6 that are past history, the 7th not yet come (trib time).
Rev.17:11 - final 'beast king' - Satan as 8th king loosed after Christ's future 1,000 years reign.
Rev.17:12 - 'beast kingdom' - the "ten horns" of Rev.13:1.
Rev.17:13 - 'beast kingdom' and 'beast king', the "ten horns" give their power to the "beast" king, Satan. That is about the ten horns of Dan.7 with another "little horn" that comes up among them and takes power.

I'm not saying all the beast kingdoms are the same things, just the seven "heads" are the same types of things. They are seven "heads", seven "kings", and at the same time are seven "mountains".

That's a wild assumption that has no truth to it. Prior to the "seven heads" mentioned in Rev.13:1, it is ONLY mentioned in Rev.12:3 which is pointing back to the time when Satan drew a third of the "stars" (angels) to earth when he first rebelled against God. That was at a time even prior to Adam, so I well know you don't understand these things at all.

Maybe not. But if I am right, full deck or not, these things are happening now.

So it means the seven "mountains", or seven hills, are of a religious context, not geographical mountains.. Remember in the OT how the Pagan people would place the Asherah poles at the high places? Or how Moses was told to make the Temple according to the plan shown to him on the mountain? Or how Jesus would climb up the mountain with His disciples for the mount of transfiguration. Or the mount of Olives, or Mount Moriah, or Mount Zion, or God's Holy Hill? Even the Pagans of South America make the pilgrimage up the mountain because they think that's where their deities dwell.

And I've already explained how a "king", can also be something which is preeminent in it's class. Like Burger King, the Cattle Kings, and Budweiser is the King of Beers. Islam is the "king" of religious belief systems in the Middle East.

Now Revelation 13 says these "heads" all have blasphemous names written on them. That should also be a big hint that they have something to do with religion. There are as well some historicists who have identified one of the heads as having received it's seemingly mortal "head" wound at the end of the middle ages during the French Revolution when Napoleon closed the Vatican down and the Catholic Pope died in a French jail cell. That wound couldn't begin it's healing process until after Mussolini opened the Vatican up again in 1929 during the Lateran Treaty. So the other 6 "heads" must be something of the same kind.

The composite beast is a conglomerate of church and state that is ultimately controlled now by the devil himself. So my story on it is spooky because i am saying that the composite beast is now, we are just past it's 42 months of authority now. I can hear it open it's mouth to blaspheme God and His dwelling place and those who live in Heaven. It is saying unheard of things against the God of gods. So then if that's true, it also means that the man of sin is here as well. Because it is he who gives his power and his throne and his great authority to the composite beast.

The seven "heads" are the seven main religious belief systems.

"This calls for a mind with wisdom: the seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman is seated; they are also seven kings, five of whom have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come, and when he does come he must remain only a little while.​

Heads and mountains and kings that have fallen. Loosen up a little and google some definitions. "Fallen" does not always mean dead, or out of business or out of commission.

Think about the phrase "fallen woman", she's not dead or out of commission, just fallen from grace.

For the purpose of this explanation, it makes no difference if John was speaking to the angel in 70 or 95 AD, it works both ways. When John spoke with the angel in Revelation 17 these following five religious belief systems had "fallen", been proven false by Jesus' birth, death and resurrection:

1) Atheism. This is defined as the belief that there is no God or gods. It might not sound like a religion, but it's a system of belief which would have certainly been operating since the time of the Antediluvians, and remains today as i can see them still arguing on different forums. This belief system was proven false the day Jesus was born. King David wrote, “The fool says in his heart, ‘There is no God.’

2) Paganism. A type of polytheism. A belief in a number of subordinate gods. Because mankind is inherently rebellious and religious, this religious system creates gods to address its fears, fantasies, and superstitions. The birth and ministry of Jesus proves this religious system is false.

3) Eastern Mysticism. Including Buddhism and Hinduism. The idea that man can transcend himself and reincarnate into a god. Eastern Mysticism believes that self can save self by overcoming cycles of life and death.

4) Judaism. The failed attempt at salvation coming through works alone. A religious system that denies that Jesus is God. Judaism believes that salvation comes through obedience to the Law. Jesus proved this religious system false when He said, “I tell you the truth, he who believes in me has everlasting life.”

5) Islam. Also Mohammedanism. The middle eastern religion that sprang from Ishmael's 12 sons. An Abrahamic religious system that originated from Ishmael. It rejects the divinity of Jesus. Islam does not accept the premise that mankind needs a sinless Savior.

The early christian church was just forming when John spoke with the angel in AD95 and would become known as the one that is:

6) Catholicism. The new Holy Mountain that appeared in John’s day was Christianity. What was called Christianity during the first few centuries is called Catholicism today. The traditions and beliefs of Catholic Churches became bigger than it's religion. Their theology, liturgy, ethics and spirituality. The Holy See. See Popery. The Catholic Church is the main and the earliest form of Christianity.

The one that had not yet come in AD95, but must remain only a little while, got started in around 1517. It's still here operating now, although I tend to suspect it has fallen as well. Hard to pin the exact date.

7) Protestantism. The second largest form of Christianity. Protestantism is popularly considered to have begun in Germany in 1517 when Martin Luther published his Ninety-five Theses as a reaction against abuses in the sale of indulgences by the Roman Catholic Church. After the powers of the papacy were broken in 1798, the Protestant Reformation blossomed for a few years in Europe and the United States, and then it fragmented into many pieces. God raised up the United States of America to help the woman in Revelation 12, but Protestantism has quickly turned away from God and "fallen" into apostasy during the past 100 years.

Every person ever born on the earth can trace a connection to at least one of these "heads".

"He will pitch the tents of his royal pavilion between the seas and the beautiful Holy Mountain; yet he will come to his end, and no one will help him.​

The 8th King, Lucifer's Theocratic Government, has made for himself a line of demarcation, separating the seas of many nations and peoples, and tongues, from God's Holy Mountain.

Peaceful Sabbath.

 

[Hobie]

Thank you Hobie.

I agree with you that New Jerusalem descending from God out of heaven can only mean that they were taken to heaven, those who were resurrected at the time of His coming down and sending out His angels to gather His elect (as you have also mentioned).

Yes, not sure if you misunderstood me as implying it did, but I agree with what you say above.

What you are saying in the first part above would be plausible if Revelation 5:10 did not say they will reign on the earth:

βασιλεύσει (He will reign) forever and ever: Revelation 11:15 (Christ).
βασιλεύσουσιν (they will reign) on the earth: Revelation 5:10 (those who overcome).
βασιλεύσουσιν (they will reign) with Christ a thousand years: Revelation 20:6 (those who overcame).
βασιλεύσουσιν (they will reign) forever and ever: Revelation 22:5:

One translation Revelation 5:10 that I read says "they will reign over the earth. It depends on whether or not it's legitimate to translate the Greek word epí that way:

Revelation 5:10 Interlinear: and didst make us to our God kings and priests, and we shall reign upon the earth.'

biblehub.com

The word epí is used in Acts 6:3 in reference to seven men being appointed "in charge of" or "appointed over" the business of seeing to it that the widows of the Greek disciples were not neglected.

So how we should interpret Revelation 5:10 - as reigning on the earth for a thousand years, or as reigning from heaven with Christ over the earth - will decide whether or not I might (or might not) agree with the rest of what you say below (because I would still have to give it a lot more thought and think about (if there may be) any other New Testament scriptures that possibly negate the idea you express below).

So I'd like to hear what you have to say about the word epí in Revelation 5:10 and whether or not you believe it should be read as the same word in Acts 6:3.​

Interesting. I've never thought of it like this before now.

Well, yes, after the 1000 years the New Jerusalem comes down on the earth and heavens made new and the wicked and the devil gone...

 

[Davy]

I'm not saying all the beast kingdoms are the same things, just the seven "heads" are the same types of things. They are seven "heads", seven "kings", and at the same time are seven "mountains".

I well understand your mixed up idea, saying the "seven heads" are the seven kings of Rev.17:10-11 when that is actually about EIGHT KINGS, 5 that were past in John's day, the 6th in John's day, and the 7th not yet come which is for the end of this world. That strikes out completely your false supposition about the "seven mountains" being those 7 kings.

Jesus showed John that the "seven heads" ARE... "seven mountains", NOT kings. Why can you not listen to Him? No, you instead would rather listen to a bunch of malarkey you learned from the doctrines of men; they probably pay your salary even. I instead listen to Jesus Christ in His Word and let the chips fall where they may.

Maybe not. But if I am right, full deck or not, these things are happening now.

What things are happening now? You don't have a clue. If you had properly read and studied the Book of Daniel, then you would understand the prophesied structure for the 1st beast of Rev.13:1. It ain't the EU. The "seven mountains" mean 7 continents, i.e., the whole world. That's why it is a symbol for the coming "one world government" over all nations!

Haven't you understood what Satan's original rebellion back in the old world was about, prior to Adam and Eve? Rev.12:3-4 shows you, as he rebelled against God back then with a one-world system that had "ten horns", "seven heads", but only "seven crowns". Nations existed on earth back then when he first rebelled, with those in the angelic form living on earth back then, something you probably have never learned in God's written Word (Ezekiel 31:6).

So it means the seven "mountains", or seven hills, are of a religious context, not geographical mountains.. Remember in the OT how the Pagan people would place the Asherah poles at the high places? Or how Moses was told to make the Temple according to the plan shown to him on the mountain? Or how Jesus would climb up the mountain with His disciples for the mount of transfiguration. Or the mount of Olives, or Mount Moriah, or Mount Zion, or God's Holy Hill? Even the Pagans of South America make the pilgrimage up the mountain because they think that's where their deities dwell.

No, by all that above supposition, you disconnect what you were supposed to note by the previous 'beast' system of Rev.12:3-4 that Satan first rebelled against God with, in wanting to be God.

Most just simply look over that early 'beast' kingdom in Rev.12, because they don't know much of what actually happened back at Satan's original rebellion in the old world prior to Adam. The 'beast' kingdom of Rev.12:3-4 has only 7 "crowns". The beast kingdom of Rev.13:1, which is for the end of this present world, is to have 10 "crowns". They are not the same. You were supposed to note that when studying Rev.12 and Rev.13. The Ezekiel 28 and Isaiah 14 chapters reveal what sin Satan did in that old world that caused his fall. And Ezekiel 31 reveals when Satan was exalted in God's Garden over all nations of that time back in the 1st world earth age prior to Adam. That had to be a time of angelic existence on earth for that to have happened. But all that is in 'parable' form from God. So if you can't grasp how God is actually pointing to Satan in those chapters, you will stay deceived about that old world.

And I've already explained how a "king", can also be something which is preeminent in it's class. Like Burger King, the Cattle Kings, and Budweiser is the King of Beers. Islam is the "king" of religious belief systems in the Middle East.

That is just ludicrous supposition. No basis in Biblical fact at all, nothing but a joke.

Now Revelation 13 says these "heads" all have blasphemous names written on them. That should also be a big hint that they have something to do with religion.

No, Rev.13 does not say that. You are MAKING THAT UP. The Rev.13:5 idea about blasphemies out of the 'beast king's' mouth was first mentioned in Daniel 7 & 11 about the coming false one, the Antichrist, a PERSON.

Thusly, that Antichrist is NOT those "seven heads" (or "seven mountains" per Rev.17). Rev.13 weaves the subject of the Antichrist, beast king, dragon, and the beast kingdom, back and forth like Rev.17 does. One has to pay attention, which you are not doing.

Rev 13:1-5
13 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.

That 1st beast there is about the beast KINGDOM idea, NOT the Antichrist. The KJV translators simply chose the personal pronoun "his" when that could have just as easily been translated as "its". Same with the following renderings of "his" or "him". The 'beast KINGDOM' is not a PERSON. It is a SYSTEM over the whole earth.

2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.

Who is that "dragon"? Rev.12:9 told us, it is just another title for Satan himself.

3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.

4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, "Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?"

That "dragon", Satan, is who gives that BEAST KINGDOM its power. That "dragon" also is a 'beast', the 'beast KING' or the Antichrist that is to come at the end of this world. The "another beast" description starting at Rev.13:11 is about Satan as the coming Antichrist at the END. He will be the "beast" of Rev.17 that the "ten kings" will give their power to.

5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.
KJV

That above is what that "dragon" (Satan) will do when he comes as the Antichrist. He will blaspheme against God and the Heavenly Host, as written in Daniel 7 and 11. That ain't the beast kingdom that does that; it will be the beast king (Antichrist) that will do that.

 

[Hobie]

Thank you Hobie.

I agree with you that New Jerusalem descending from God out of heaven can only mean that they were taken to heaven, those who were resurrected at the time of His coming down and sending out His angels to gather His elect (as you have also mentioned).

Yes, not sure if you misunderstood me as implying it did, but I agree with what you say above.

What you are saying in the first part above would be plausible if Revelation 5:10 did not say they will reign on the earth:

βασιλεύσει (He will reign) forever and ever: Revelation 11:15 (Christ).
βασιλεύσουσιν (they will reign) on the earth: Revelation 5:10 (those who overcome).
βασιλεύσουσιν (they will reign) with Christ a thousand years: Revelation 20:6 (those who overcame).
βασιλεύσουσιν (they will reign) forever and ever: Revelation 22:5:

One translation Revelation 5:10 that I read says "they will reign over the earth. It depends on whether or not it's legitimate to translate the Greek word epí that way:

Revelation 5:10 Interlinear: and didst make us to our God kings and priests, and we shall reign upon the earth.'

biblehub.com

The word epí is used in Acts 6:3 in reference to seven men being appointed "in charge of" or "appointed over" the business of seeing to it that the widows of the Greek disciples were not neglected.

So how we should interpret Revelation 5:10 - as reigning on the earth for a thousand years, or as reigning from heaven with Christ over the earth - will decide whether or not I might (or might not) agree with the rest of what you say below (because I would still have to give it a lot more thought and think about (if there may be) any other New Testament scriptures that possibly negate the idea you express below).

So I'd like to hear what you have to say about the word epí in Revelation 5:10 and whether or not you believe it should be read as the same word in Acts 6:3.​

Interesting. I've never thought of it like this before now.

They will reign on earth after the New Jerusalem comes down after the 1000 years, so you can see how it all fits. The earth and heavens have now been made new and we reign with Christ for eternity with no more tears or suffering...

Revelation 21:4
And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

 

[ewq1938]

They will reign on earth after the New Jerusalem comes down after the 1000 years, so you can see how it all fits. The earth and heavens have now been made new and we reign with Christ for eternity with no more tears or suffering...

The reigning is reigning over mortals with a rod of iron. There is no rod of iron rule after the 1000 years. The reigning is on the Earth during the Millennium.

Rev 19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.


The ones Jesus SMITES are the ones that will be ruled over. That eliminates immortal saints ruling over each other only in the eternity.

 

[Hobie]

On Earth not in Heeaven.


http://biblia.com/bible/nkjv/Revelation 20.4
Satan will be confined to earth during it. Revelation 20:1-3, 7


No, he is confined to a pit and locked there. He has no access to the Earth at all because that's where the nations will be ruled over by Christ.


http://biblia.com/bible/nkjv/Revelation 20.1



They try to attack old Jerusalem. NJ doesn't come down until after the GWTJ is over.

How would you read this declaration by Christ...

John 14:1-3
1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.
2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

 

[ewq1938]

How would you read this declaration by Christ...

John 14:1-3
1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.
2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

Joh 14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
Joh 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.


Jesus said, "I go to prepare a place for you." that is regarding those who die while Christ is in heaven. Jesus will eventually leave heaven: "I will come again". That is the second coming and here is the important thing: "I will come again and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also."


So where is Christ after "I will come again and receive you unto myself"? Earth. He is no longer in heaven.


"I will come again and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also."


This is what Jesus said. This is what some think he said:


"I will come again and receive you unto myself AND TAKE YOU BACK TO HEAVEN; that where I am, there ye may be also."


He also did NOT say, "I will come again and receive you unto myself; that where I USED TO BE, there ye may be also."

He never said when he came back, that he was taking anyone to heaven. He comes again to Earth and where he is on Earth is where the church will be.

Also in the same chapter:

Joh 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.


Christ isn't returning to take anyone up to heaven to live with him and the Father but the opposite! The Father and Christ will end up coming here to make their abode on Earth with us!

 

[Douggg]

4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, "Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?"

That "dragon", Satan, is who gives that BEAST KINGDOM its power. That "dragon" also is a 'beast', the 'beast KING' or the Antichrist that is to come at the end of this world. The "another beast" description starting at Rev.13:11 is about Satan as the coming Antichrist at the END. He will be the "beast" of Rev.17 that the "ten kings" will give their power to.

5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.
KJV

That above is what that "dragon" (Satan) will do when he comes as the Antichrist. He will blaspheme against God and the Heavenly Host, as written in Daniel 7 and 11. That ain't the beast kingdom that does that; it will be the beast king (Antichrist) that will do that.

Satan is not the coming Antichrist. The Antichrist is a human person. That person is revealed as going through 5 stages on the way to his demise.... cast alive into the lake of fire.

1. the little horn person - leader over ten EU leader, the 7th king of Revelation 17:10
2. the prince who shall come - following the Gog/Magog event of Ezekiel 39
3. the Antichrist - by being anointed the King of Israel thought-to-be messiah by the Jews
4. the revealed man of sin - revealed that he is not the messiah after all, end of his time as the Antichrist
5. the beast-king of Revelation 13 - dictator over the kingdom of ten kings - the 8th king of Revelation 17:11

The person is the Antichrist only for the time he is the King of Israel. When he later becomes the beast-king, he is no longer the Antichrist.

Satan's presence, and how he will be worshiped, will be that he will indwell the statue image of the beast-king. That image will be turned to ashes at Jesus's return, exposing Satan to be physically seen there on the temple mount.

 

[Davy]

Satan is not the coming Antichrist.

Well, actually Satan will be the coming Antichrist, you just don't know it yet, your spiritual eyes have been closed because of listening to men's doctrines.

You haven't paid attention to the actual Bible Scripture as written, for Jesus warned of both the coming of many 'fake' antichrists, but also about a real Antichrist with the power of supernatural miracles to deceive the whole world with. One category is about flesh men saying, "I am Christ" with no POWER of miracles, and the other is the real Antichrist that is to come that will be a SUPERNATURAL one WITH the POWER to work great signs and wonders, and miracles, even raining fire down from heaven to earth in the sight of men.

Those two categories is also what Jesus warned about in Matthew 24:4-5 (many flesh antichrists with no power), and Matthew 24:23-26 Scripture (the Antichrist with power of miracles), and Apostle Paul in the 2 Thessalonians 2:3-9 Scripture, and Apostle John in the Revelation 13:11-14 Scripture. In each one of those Scripture witnesses, it is pointing to one with SUPERNATURAL POWERS deceiving the whole world into believing he is God.

So you have been given THREE BIBLE WITNESSES written in God's Word in order to ascertain who the coming Antichrist will be, and it definitely does NOT point to some flesh bozo that can only say, "I am Christ"!

Even in 2 Corinthians 11, Apostle Paul warned us about those who push the "another Jesus"...

2 Cor 11:3-4
3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.
4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.
KJV

Didn't you know about that warning from Apostle Paul of those who preach the "another Jesus", and how Paul linked that "another Jesus" with Satan in that Chapter?

2 Cor 11:13-15
13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.
KJV

The Antichrist is a human person. That person is revealed as going through 5 stages on the way to his demise.... cast alive into the lake of fire.

1. the little horn person - leader over ten EU leader, the 7th king of Revelation 17:10
2. the prince who shall come - following the Gog/Magog event of Ezekiel 39
3. the Antichrist - by being anointed the King of Israel thought-to-be messiah by the Jews
4. the revealed man of sin - revealed that he is not the messiah after all, end of his time as the Antichrist
5. the beast-king of Revelation 13 - dictator over the kingdom of ten kings - the 8th king of Revelation 17:11

LOL!
The coming Antichrist has NOTHING to do with some false prophet who pushes fake ideas coming from Europe or the EU. Bible Scripture does NOT point to that kind of idea at all, it is so illiterate! God's Word as written points to a false-Messiah, one coming in the ROLE of Christ, and WITH Power to work great signs and wonders LIKE Jesus did! And Jesus in His Olivet discourse revealed that coming Antichrist will do his 'thang' from JERUSALEM, not Rome or the EU!

The "little horn" of the Book of Daniel is about the beast king of Rev.17 the other ten kings will give their power to. That Rev.17:12-13 kills any idea about supposed 10 nations in Europe by those pushing the junk you are pushing.

The one Jesus said is coming, that has nothing in Him, is the coming Antichrist at the END of this world, not some Roman emperor of the past, nor some pope of the present. I ain't seen any pope do the great signs and wonders and miracles that Jesus said will do per Matthew 24:23-26; and likewise said by Apostle John in Rev.13:11-14.

Your no.3 is correct though, as the "small people" of Daniel 11 will setup the Antichrist ("vile person") as Messiah, and no doubt claim he is born of the tribe of Judah like Jesus was. Yet that will ONLY be their 'claim' in order to fool the majority of Jews in Jerusalem, and peoples of the world (Rev.13:4-8 again).

In 2 Thess.2:4, when Apostle Paul spoke of the "man of sin" being revealed, that is about the "great tribulation" time when he as the coming false-Christ will be setup in Jerusalem in a new "temple of God" built by the Jews for the end of this world, and there will claim himself to be God. The majority of the world will believe it too, not just deceived Jews in Jerusalem. The reason they will believe God has come will be because of the SUPERNATURAL WORKING Antichrist will do, even raining fire down to earth in the sight of men!

Once again, Revelation 13:4-8 says he will have power over ALL NATIONS AND PEOPLES for 42 months. So scrap your EU 10 nation stupidity you learned from false prophets that couldn't find their way out of a wet paper bag.

In order to understand what the Antichrist prophecy for the end is truly about, the Bible student must first understand what it was that Lucifer did in the old world to make him fall. When Lucifer first rebelled with one third of the angels against God in that old world prior to Adam, he did that with trying to exalt himself in place of GOD.

It was Lucifer's created job as the cherub that covereth to guard God's Throne (Ezekiel 28). Lucifer instead coveted God's Throne for himself, wanting to be GOD, and worshipped as GOD. That is the very... sin which Apostle Paul pointed to by that coming "man of sin" in 2 Thessalonians 2:3-9. Paul even pointed directly to Satan by calling that "man of sin" later as "that Wicked", which the KJV translators obviously understood Paul was pointing to Satan, and by that they capitalized that word "Wicked".

Then the same ones pushing men's traditions you listen to like to deceive that office of 'the Antichrist' by using the idea that he will be a 'man' only in the sense of someone born in the flesh. NO, the 'image of man' ORIGINATED from GOD's Own outward likeness and appearance, PER Genesis 1:26-27! So those false prophets you listen to don't even know that according the written Bible Scripture!

 

[Douggg]

Well, actually Satan will be the coming Antichrist, you just don't know it yet, your spiritual eyes have been closed because of listening to men's doctrines.

Davy, I am not parroting men's doctrines.

Once again, Revelation 13:4-8 says he will have power over ALL NATIONS AND PEOPLES for 42 months. So scrap your EU 10 nation stupidity you learned from false prophets that couldn't find their way out of a wet paper bag.

The EU will be the dominant global power during the last 42 months before Jesus returns. The EU is the manifestation of the Roman Empire in the end times.

Davy, please stop with all the false allegations of my background in regards to what I post. Just stick with discussing the prophecies and not the personal accusations.

The beast-king, dictator of the EU, as the king of the west, in Daniel 11:36-45 will be attacked near the end of the 7 years as a prelude to Armageddon.

 

[jasmine_princess]

Our pastor is doing a sermon series about the End Times and Prophecies. It is thought provoking, and he doesn't go into that big dispute about on when it will happened.

Some translations say "One Week", some say "7 Years". Some even say that were now in the gap between the 69th week and 70th week. Then of course, some might have their interpretation of the "70th Week."

 

[Douggg]

Our pastor is doing a sermon series about the End Times and Prophecies. It is thought provoking, and he doesn't go into that big dispute about on when it will happened.

Some translations say "One Week", some say "7 Years". Some even say that were now in the gap between the 69th week and 70th week. Then of course, some might have their interpretation of the "70th Week."

Make a copy of this timeline chart I made and give it to your pastor.

 

[Davy]

Davy, I am not parroting men's doctrines.

Again I have to laugh! You certainly are... parroting men's doctrines.

The idea of some flesh man leader representing the EU being the coming Antichrist of The Bible is MEN'S DOCTRINE, not written in God's Word. And you were not the first one to come up with that, so who do you think you're trying to fool?

The EU is simply a one-third creation by the globalists in their plan for a "one world government" (their term, not mine). They have been trying to setup an American Union of the same type in the Western hemisphere, and there have already been established departments, personnel and funds for that shadow operation behind the U.S. government. Investigative journalist Jerome Corsi discovered that shadow working back in the 1990's through the Freedom of Information Act. At the same time, there has been an Asian version of that globalist movement, even mentioned in Georgetown history professor Carrol Quigley's 1960's book Tragedy And Hope. So the EU is only one-third of the globalist's one-world movement to join all nations under the authority of the coming false-Messiah in... JERUSALEM.

 

[Hobie]

Joh 14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
Joh 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.


Jesus said, "I go to prepare a place for you." that is regarding those who die while Christ is in heaven. Jesus will eventually leave heaven: "I will come again". That is the second coming and here is the important thing: "I will come again and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also."


So where is Christ after "I will come again and receive you unto myself"? Earth. He is no longer in heaven.


"I will come again and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also."


This is what Jesus said. This is what some think he said:


"I will come again and receive you unto myself AND TAKE YOU BACK TO HEAVEN; that where I am, there ye may be also."


He also did NOT say, "I will come again and receive you unto myself; that where I USED TO BE, there ye may be also."

He never said when he came back, that he was taking anyone to heaven. He comes again to Earth and where he is on Earth is where the church will be.

Also in the same chapter:

Joh 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.


Christ isn't returning to take anyone up to heaven to live with him and the Father but the opposite! The Father and Christ will end up coming here to make their abode on Earth with us!

And the mansions are in heaven, where He will take us, the hope of believers since He declared it..

 

[Hobie]

Maybe His Baptism is His appearance. Many believe it is Palm Sunday when He came to Jerusalem as Messiah.

And atponement for iniquity, bring in everlasting righteousness, to make an end of sins, to finsih THEtransgression (singular) and also anoint teh most holy. Also aprince from the people who destroyed the temple (Roman Empire) has to make a 7 year covenant.

These have not happened as they are for jews and Jerusalem.

I quess you never heard what happened in 70 AD..

 

[Ronald Nolette]

I quess you never heard what happened in 70 AD..

I know very well what happened between 66 and 70 AD as well as the continuing rebellion until 135 AD! But 70 Ad was the fulfilment of the Luke 21:20-24 portion of the Olivet Discourse which was teh judgment for the unpardonable sin committed by the Pharisees in Matthew 12.

It is different both in quality and quantity that the Matthew 24:15-22 judgment