The True Identity of the 144,000 of the Book of Revelation

[cga]

The book of Revelation first mentions 144,000 who are sealed here,

Then I heard the number of those who were sealed: 144,000 from all the tribes of Israel. (Revelation 7:4 [NIV])

The 144,000 are all the chosen that belong to Jesus Christ at his second coming, and will be gathered together at the second coming of Jesus Christ. For just as the 144,000 chosen follow the Lamb wherever he goes, so do the chosen that are taken up to meet the Lord in the air will then always be with him,

Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord. (1 Thessalonians 4:17 [ESV])
...They follow the Lamb wherever he goes... (Revelation 14:4 [NIV])

And the chosen are also said to be first fruits just as the 144,000 chosen are said to be first fruits,

He chose to give us birth through the word of truth, that we might be a kind of firstfruits of all he created. (James 1:18 [ESV])
...They were purchased from among mankind and offered as firstfruits to God and the Lamb. (Revelation 14:4 [NIV])

And the chosen are sealed with the holy spirit just as the 144,000 chosen are sealed,

In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, (Ephesians 1:13 [ESV])
saying, “Do not harm the earth or the sea or the trees, until we have sealed the servants of our God on their foreheads.” (Revelation 7:3 [ESV])

And the chosen are also redeemed just as the 144,000 chosen are redeemed from the earth,

In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, in accordance with the riches of God's grace (Ephesians 1:7 [NIV])
And they sang a new song before the throne and before the four living creatures and the elders. No one could learn the song except the 144,000 who had been redeemed from the earth. (Revelation 14:3 [NIV])

And the chosen will not marry nor be given into marriage like angels,

At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven. (Matthew 22:30 [ESV])

Just as the 144,000 chosen are virgins who will not defile themselves with women,

These are those who did not defile themselves with women, for they remained virgins... (Revelation 14:4 [NIV])

And just as the 144,000 chosen are Israelites,

Then I heard the number of those who were sealed: 144,000 from all the tribes of Israel. (Revelation 7:4 [NIV])

So are those who are chosen, whether Jew or Gentile, all grafted into the one olive tree of Israel, and will one day all be called Israel,

After all, if you were cut out of an olive tree that is wild by nature, and contrary to nature were grafted into a cultivated olive tree, how much more readily will these, the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree! I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers and sisters, so that you may not be conceited: Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full number of the Gentiles has come in, and in this way all Israel will be saved. As it is written: "The deliverer will come from Zion; he will turn godlessness away from Jacob. (Romans 11:24-26 [NIV])

And just as the 144,000 chosen have already been numbered, so has God already chosen who will be his from the foundation of the world,

even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love (Ephesians 1:4 [ESV])

And so, although many are called, only a small remnant of 144,000 are chosen,

So too, at the present time there is a remnant chosen by grace. (Romans 11:5 [NIV])


"For many are invited, but few are chosen." (Matthew 22:14 [NIV])

 

[Questor]

Duplicate Post

 

[Questor]

The book of Revelation first mentions 144,000 who are sealed here,

Then I heard the number of those who were sealed: 144,000 from all the tribes of Israel. (Revelation 7:4 [NIV])

The 144,000 are all the chosen that belong to Jesus Christ at his second coming, and will be gathered together at the second coming of Jesus Christ. For just as the 144,000 chosen follow the Lamb wherever he goes, so do the chosen that are taken up to meet the Lord in the air will then always be with him,

Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord. (1 Thessalonians 4:17 [ESV])
...They follow the Lamb wherever he goes... (Revelation 14:4 [NIV])

And the chosen are also said to be first fruits just as the 144,000 chosen are said to be first fruits,

He chose to give us birth through the word of truth, that we might be a kind of firstfruits of all he created. (James 1:18 [ESV])
...They were purchased from among mankind and offered as firstfruits to God and the Lamb. (Revelation 14:4 [NIV])

And the chosen are sealed with the holy spirit just as the 144,000 chosen are sealed,

In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, (Ephesians 1:13 [ESV])
saying, “Do not harm the earth or the sea or the trees, until we have sealed the servants of our God on their foreheads.” (Revelation 7:3 [ESV])

And the chosen are also redeemed just as the 144,000 chosen are redeemed from the earth,

In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, in accordance with the riches of God's grace (Ephesians 1:7 [NIV])
And they sang a new song before the throne and before the four living creatures and the elders. No one could learn the song except the 144,000 who had been redeemed from the earth. (Revelation 14:3 [NIV])

And the chosen will not marry nor be given into marriage like angels,

At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven. (Matthew 22:30[ESV])

Just as the 144,000 chosen are virgins who will not defile themselves with women,

These are those who did not defile themselves with women, for they remained virgins... (Revelation 14:4 [NIV])

And just as the 144,000 chosen are Israelites,

Then I heard the number of those who were sealed: 144,000 from all the tribes of Israel. (Revelation 7:4 [NIV])

I think that you are saying that those who are the 144,000 are anyone that are the chosen of G-d...meaning, presumably, even a Gentile, who is chosen by G-d to believe in Yeshua, take him as their savior, and be given a dower portion of the Ruach haKodesh until Yeshua returns to earth?

Yet that is not what the text says.

If we are to take the plain word of the text, the conditions stated must be fulfilled.

Revelation 7:4-8 (CJB)
4 I heard how many were sealed — 144,000 from every tribe of the people of Isra’el:
5 From the tribe of Y’hudah: 12,000 were sealed, from the tribe of Re’uven: 12,000, from the tribe of Gad: 12,000,
6 from the tribe of Asher: 12,000, from the tribe of Naftali: 12,000, from the tribe of M’nasheh: 12,000,
7 from the tribe of Shim‘on: 12,000, from the tribe of Levi: 12,000, from the tribe of Yissakhar: 12,000,
8 from the tribe of Z’vulun: 12,000, from the tribe of Yosef: 12,000, from the tribe of Binyamin: 12,000.

Revelation 14:1-5 (CJB)
1 Then I looked, and there was the Lamb standing on Mount Tziyon; and with him were 144,000 who had his name and his Father’s name written on their foreheads.
2 I heard a sound from heaven like the sound of rushing waters and like the sound of pealing thunder; the sound I heard was also like that of harpists playing on their harps.
3 They were singing a new song before the throne and before the four living beings and the elders, and no one could learn the song except the 144,000 who have been ransomed from the world.
4 These are the ones who have not defiled themselves with women, for they are virgins; they follow the Lamb wherever he goes; they have been ransomed from among humanity as firstfruits for God and the Lamb;
5 on their lips no lie was found — they are without defect.


For instance, being a virgin is an actual physical requirement, not a spiritual one that occurs when one is reborn, and has washed their robes in the blood of the Lamb?

And that these 144,000 are the first fruits to G-d of the 12 Tribes of Israel, of those Physical Israelites...not Gentiles, that were chosen to be redeemed by Yeshua after his death?

That these chosen ones would be those Jews in the 1st Century of each named Tribe who chose to become a Nazarene after Yeshua's death, and became even the more fervent in their adherence to the 613 Commandments in the Torah?

And that the 12,000 saved members of each of the tribes of Israel must actually then be 'Judeans' by blood and religion, being observant of the Torah in the books of Moses...yes?



From the Revelation of Yeshua in John's hand at the end of the 1st Century, it seems to be so, but I think you are saying something quite different.

It sounds as if you are saying that the conditions for the 144,000 are spiritual, and not tribal, religious, nor ritually based. If that is the case, then you have just tripped over the Gnostic line in my opinion.

 

[ezekiel]

Questor: some questions.

337 times or so woman is referred to. Not all are a female as in the flesh. Some are referred as a nation, some this, some that. You know, it very well can be the woman and the beast.

Also John is to again speak to the nations as he done then. You know this. So you would think its fulfilled.

This song they sing as if its a new song but its not, its a old one. What were they preaching about back then if its fulfilled.

 

[Questor]

Questor: some questions.

337 times or so woman is referred to. Not all are a female as in the flesh. Some are referred as a nation, some this, some that. You know, it very well can be the woman and the beast.

Also John is to again speak to the nations as he done then. You know this. So you would think its fulfilled.

This song they sing as if its a new song but its not, its a old one. What were they preaching about back then if its fulfilled.

Yes, I am well aware that words in the Scriptures can have four different levels of meaning...but this is prophecy of a specific group, with clear statements as to the reason for the qualifications of the group.

A number of 12, times a thousand, is a possible reference to a gematria of perfect government to the utmost, as well, and thus a representative number for an unknown amount of people.

You can assume that the ten tribes of Israel proper became lost tribes that no longer existed, and must be in the nations to be found only by G-d, even though there were members of all tribes in Judea at the time of the Assyrian conquest of the upper ten nations.

You can have a virgin be a physical or a spiritual state, and a woman be a female human, or a church, but first fruits are only first fruits. They are taken at the beginning, not the end, or they wouldn't be considered an initial offering to G-d. Just sayin.

 

[StanJ]

The book of Revelation first mentions 144,000 who are sealed here,Then I heard the number of those who were sealed: 144,000 from all the tribes of Israel. (Revelation 7:4 [NIV])The 144,000 are all the chosen that belong to Jesus Christ at his second coming, and will be gathered together at the second coming of Jesus Christ. For just as the 144,000 chosen follow the Lamb wherever he goes, so do the chosen that are taken up to meet the Lord in the air will then always be with him,Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord. (1 Thessalonians 4:17 [ESV])...They follow the Lamb wherever he goes... (Revelation 14:4 [NIV])And the chosen are also said to be first fruits just as the 144,000 chosen are said to be first fruits,He chose to give us birth through the word of truth, that we might be a kind of firstfruits of all he created. (James 1:18 [ESV])...They were purchased from among mankind and offered as firstfruits to God and the Lamb. (Revelation 14:4 [NIV])And the chosen are sealed with the holy spirit just as the 144,000 chosen are sealed,In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, (Ephesians 1:13 [ESV])saying, “Do not harm the earth or the sea or the trees, until we have sealed the servants of our God on their foreheads.” (Revelation 7:3 [ESV])And the chosen are also redeemed just as the 144,000 chosen are redeemed from the earth,In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, in accordance with the riches of God's grace (Ephesians 1:7 [NIV])And they sang a new song before the throne and before the four living creatures and the elders. No one could learn the song except the 144,000 who had been redeemed from the earth. (Revelation 14:3 [NIV])And the chosen will not marry nor be given into marriage like angels,At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven. (Matthew 22:30 [ESV])Just as the 144,000 chosen are virgins who will not defile themselves with women,These are those who did not defile themselves with women, for they remained virgins... (Revelation 14:4 [NIV])And just as the 144,000 chosen are Israelites,Then I heard the number of those who were sealed: 144,000 from all the tribes of Israel. (Revelation 7:4 [NIV])So are those who are chosen, whether Jew or Gentile, all grafted into the one olive tree of Israel, and will one day all be called Israel,After all, if you were cut out of an olive tree that is wild by nature, and contrary to nature were grafted into a cultivated olive tree, how much more readily will these, the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree! I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers and sisters, so that you may not be conceited: Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full number of the Gentiles has come in, and in this way all Israel will be saved. As it is written: "The deliverer will come from Zion; he will turn godlessness away from Jacob. (Romans 11:24-26 [NIV])And just as the 144,000 chosen have already been numbered, so has God already chosen who will be his from the foundation of the world,even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love (Ephesians 1:4 [ESV])And so, although many are called, only a small remnant of 144,000 are chosen,So too, at the present time there is a remnant chosen by grace. (Romans 11:5 [NIV])"For many are invited, but few are chosen." (Matthew 22:14 [NIV])

Ya... NO.
144000 mansion in Revelation 7 and 14 are Jewish male virgins that will be responsible for proselytizing the Kingdom of Israel during the Great Tribulation. They are part of God's plan to ensure that all Israel is saved. What you are advocating sounds more like the doctrine of the Jehovah Witnesses?

 

[keras]

What is not realized by most is the fact of the 144,000 were [will be] selected out of the 'vast multitude' of Rev 7:9.
As stated those people are from every tribe, race, nation and language, God's people; the true Israelites of God, as we know from Galatians 3:26-29 and many other proofs of how it is righteous Christian believers who will receive the promises of God to His chosen people.
The Christian peoples who will gather into all of the holy Land, soon after the Lord's Day of wrath, Ezekiel 34:11-16, Psalms 107:1-2, will be assigned to one of the 12 tribes according to individual characteristics and 12,000 virgin males are chosen from each tribe [group] to go out as missionaries and proclaim the coming Kingdom of Jesus. Isaiah 66:19

 

[Questor]

What is not realized by most is the fact of the 144,000 were [will be] selected out of the 'vast multitude' of Rev 7:9.
As stated those people are from every tribe, race, nation and language, God's people; the true Israelites of God, as we know from Galatians 3:26-29 and many other proofs of how it is righteous Christian believers who will receive the promises of God to His chosen people.
The Christian peoples who will gather into all of the holy Land, soon after the Lord's Day of wrath, Ezekiel 34:11-16, Psalms 107:1-2, will be assigned to one of the 12 tribes according to individual characteristics and 12,000 virgin males are chosen from each tribe [group] to go out as missionaries and proclaim the coming Kingdom of Jesus. Isaiah 66:19

Sorry to contradict you, but you are not looking at the text. First G-d takes the 144,000 of every Israelite Tribe...as in the actual named tribes, of the Judean people, and then oodles of others from every other race and tribe.

Revelation 7:3-10 (CJB)
3 “Do not harm the land or the sea or the trees until we have sealed the servants of our God on their foreheads!”
4 I heard how many were sealed — 144,000 from every tribe of the people of Isra’el:
5 From the tribe of Y’hudah: 12,000 were sealed, from the tribe of Re’uven: 12,000, from the tribe of Gad: 12,000,
6 from the tribe of Asher: 12,000, from the tribe of Naftali: 12,000, from the tribe of M’nasheh: 12,000,
7 from the tribe of Shim‘on: 12,000, from the tribe of Levi: 12,000, from the tribe of Yissakhar: 12,000,
8 from the tribe of Z’vulun: 12,000, from the tribe of Yosef: 12,000, from the tribe of Binyamin: 12,000.
9 After this, I looked; and there before me was a huge crowd, too large for anyone to count, from every nation, tribe, people and language. They were standing in front of the throne and in front of the Lamb, dressed in white robes and holding palm branches in their hands;
10 and they shouted, “Victory to our God, who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb!”

 

[ezekiel]

Yes, I am well aware that words in the Scriptures can have four different levels of meaning...but this is prophecy of a specific group, with clear statements as to the reason for the qualifications of the group.

A number of 12, times a thousand, is a possible reference to a gematria of perfect government to the utmost, as well, and thus a representative number for an unknown amount of people.

You can assume that the ten tribes of Israel proper became lost tribes that no longer existed, and must be in the nations to be found only by G-d, even though there were members of all tribes in Judea at the time of the Assyrian conquest of the upper ten nations.

You can have a virgin be a physical or a spiritual state, and a woman be a female human, or a church, but first fruits are only first fruits. They are taken at the beginning, not the end, or they wouldn't be considered an initial offering to G-d. Just sayin.

So which beginning. When Christ was died and the graves opened up ?, were they the 144000. Before the beginning of the end of earth. What beginning do you speak of. But remember they are on earth because they hear the voice of the Creator in the form of thunder. Even the Elders listen

 

[Questor]

So which beginning. When Christ was died and the graves opened up ?, were they the 144000. Before the beginning of the end of earth. What beginning do you speak of. But remember they are on earth because they hear the voice of the Creator in the form of thunder. Even the Elders listen

Scripture, please, to support your statement, so I will know what to examine that has led you to say this, and thus can respond with a scriptural argument, not an opinion.

 

[ezekiel]

Scripture, please, to support your statement, so I will know what to examine that has led you to say this, and thus can respond with a scriptural argument, not an opinion.

Questor : you seem to be a numbers person. Check out these numbers as the bible list them. 140 and 4000, and 1000 and 40 and 4000. Its every word from the mouth and and is a word. The 144000, the Angels will not let the end times start until these teachers are in place. They are a seed of God you may want the hear them for the words they speak are true.

 

[ezekiel]

Moreover When I was little mama would say don't be scared its just God in heaven bowling. But when I have grown, God is not bowling but speaks do you here Him.

Job 37
At this also my heart trembleth, and is moved out of his place.
2 Hear attentively the noise of his voice, and the sound that goeth out of his mouth.
3 He directeth it under the whole heaven, and his lightning unto the ends of the earth.
4 After it a voice roareth: he thundereth with the voice of his excellency; and he will not stay them when his voice is heard.
5 God thundereth marvellously with his voice; great things doeth he, which we cannot comprehend.

But why its not all hear and fill the rushing wind with in them self.

28 Father, glorify thy name. Then came there a voice from heaven, saying, I have both glorified it, and will glorify it again.
29 The people therefore, that stood by, and heard it, said that it thundered: others said, An angel spake to him.
30 Jesus answered and said, This voice came not because of me, but for your sakes.
31 Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out.

Humbly your self before the lord that he may speak to you. In spirit and in truth for He knows all things.

These are Christain's. You can not come to the Father but thru Christ. And think on the Father always.

6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.

 

[Questor]

Ezekial, I value what you are saying, but you are attempting to persuade by unrelated ideas, concepts, and opinion what is not in the Scriptures, or does not relate directly to the 144,000, and their qualifications to be the 144,000 as stated in Scripture. You are not using Scripture to argue against Scripture, which is the only thing I, and most others, will trust in.

First Fruits are First Fruits, meaning first, before other fruits of the Vine, whether of the original Vine, or grafted in. The other qualifications can be argued to be spiritual rather than literal, and to suggest more than is actually in the text, and even relate to other texts in simple and complex ways, but just as Yeshua is the First Fruit among all the Sons of G-d, the 144,000 are a special selection, and taken first...even perhaps offered up first, before other of the Brethren, just as Yeshua was.

 

[ezekiel]

More Again : We know the the Spirit of God rest on them. They have moved to high ground and the Lord will establish them. Living water shall flow from the mountains a fire in the night and smoke in day as a cover. We have not more then one year before the four Angels let them go. Destruction on destruction. They choose the high ground and what will you say, lets us go up their that we may see.

And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the Lord's house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it.

 

[ezekiel]

Scripture, please, to support your statement, so I will know what to examine that has led you to say this, and thus can respond with a scriptural argument, not an opinion.

Questor : The words God speaks are Spirit. And I tell you they became flesh. My Father bare witness of them. Christ also. Isaiah bare witness of them. Now I bare witness of them and told you even more so clearly that they are in the mountains around this world at the present time frame. You know this, if the thing one says doesn't come true then he was not sent but if the thing he speaks of come true you will know his word was true and was sent of God.

 

[Questor]

You are not speaking to the topic of the 144,000, and are simply saying "Listen to me, I have heard from G-d and this is what he has said...."

I have no doubt that you hear from the Ruach haKodesh, and are attempting to discern the meaning, and tell others about it, but this not about the 144,000 in Scripture.

2 Peter 1:20-21 (KJV)
20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

Scriptural Prophecy can only be interpreted and discussed in light of other Scripture, because they are Scripture, agreed upon by all as to their being from the Ruach haKodesh. Personal revelation is irrelevant to interpreting existing Scripture.

 

[ezekiel]

You are not speaking to the topic of the 144,000, and are simply saying "Listen to me, I have heard from G-d and this is what he has said...."

I have no doubt that you hear from the Ruach haKodesh, and are attempting to discern the meaning, and tell others about it, but this not about the 144,000 in Scripture.

2 Peter 1:20-21 (KJV)
20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

Scriptural Prophecy can only be interpreted and discussed in light of other Scripture, because they are Scripture, agreed upon by all as to their being from the Ruach haKodesh. Personal revelation is irrelevant to interpreting existing Scripture.

Number one the only one is holy and that is God.
Number two Its not a private interpretation its in front of everyone eyes not just mine. The world flat, round, or square
Number three 1000's around the world has moved to the mountains areas and who lead them. Beside what was that Isaiah said about the last days.

Again with in one year the sixes begin vial, first. The river above the dwarf star that runs north and south its orbit will change, the great river on earth it also will change, also exports to Asia will also change.

 

[Questor]

Ezekial, you are prophesying, not discussing the identity of the 144,000. Your visions may indeed be correct, but what has that to do with the 144,000...who they are, as described in Scripture, not in your visions?

 

[ezekiel]

Soon as all are sealed heaven is filled. We must look real close at the white robes in both. One claiming salvation with palms.

9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;
10 And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.

These are still serving God on earth, notice the day and night.

15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.
16 They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat.
17 For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes.

Notice how God moves here. But these are another planet whom He also calls Israel.

Ezekiel 9
4 And the Lord said unto him, Go through the midst of the city, through the midst of Jerusalem, and set a mark upon the foreheads of the men that sigh and that cry for all the abominations that be done in the midst thereof.
5 And to the others he said in mine hearing, Go ye after him through the city, and smite: let not your eye spare, neither have ye pity:

 

[ezekiel]

God moves His church into high ground to protect them. The message they deliver is clear also. The nations Have destroyed earth with their weapons. Christ has said Isaiah speaks well. Isaiah 2 is a rough outline revelations are more detailed. Also pride and not being humble in you heart not on the outside but inside for whats inside comes out. Look also the last verse that's the end of earth. If they knew what God is to do with earth they would not have sold every they had and build things under ground. I think this is all I have to say about the 144000.