Who Really Are The 144,000?

[Earburner]

In Ezekiel 21:1-7, it describes that the forthcoming Day the Lord will destroy Judah and all the ungodly peoples in the Middle East. It is clearly stated that He will do away with the righteous and wicked alike......
However, in Isaiah 29:1-4, it is prophesied that a few Jews will survive by sheltering underground. As Romans 9:27 also says.

But just as with the ten Northern tribes, there are millions of people around the world who are descended from one or another of the 12 tribes. Only God knows, Amos 9:9, although most; we can identify from their Christian faith.
The 144,000 will be selected from those peoples. Revelation 14:1-5 and it will be them who proclaim the Gospel of the coming Kingdom. Revelation 14:6-7 and Isaiah 66:19

Ezk. 21[3] And say to the land of Israel, Thus saith the LORD; Behold, I am against thee, and will draw forth my sword out of his sheath, and will cut off from thee the righteous and the wicked.
[4] Seeing then that I will cut off from thee the righteous and the wicked, therefore shall my sword go forth out of his sheath against all flesh from the south to the north:
[5] That all flesh may know that I the LORD have drawn forth my sword out of his sheath: it shall not return any more.
> God is speaking to Israel, who think that they are righteous by keeping Moses 10C Law, thus calling all who don't keep the Law as being wicked.
The "sword" taken out of his "sheath" [sword being revealed]", is the word of God made to be flesh, who is Jesus, of whom has Himself obtained the Righteousness of God, whereby He has eclipsed all forms of righteousness by the Law, as well as all forms of wickedness without the Law.

Isa. 29
[1] Woe to Ariel, to Ariel, the city where David dwelt! add ye year to year; let them kill sacrifices.[2] Yet I will distress Ariel, and there shall be heaviness and sorrow: and it shall be unto me as Ariel.[3] And I will camp against thee round about, and will lay siege against thee with a mount, and I will raise forts against thee.[4] And thou shalt be brought down, and shalt speak out of the ground, and thy speech shall be low out of the dust, and thy voice shall be, as of one that hath a familiar spirit, out of the ground, and thy speech shall whisper out of the dust.
> Ever since the day of Pentecost, the message by Israel: "to keep the Law is righteousness", has been eclipsed by Jesus fulfilling all the Law. Thus fulfilling:
He will do away with the righteous and wicked alike......

Therefore, Israel is now 100% subject to Jesus and His NC.
Since 70 AD, Israel no longer has a place or a voice in the matter, and by necessity has figuratively gone "underground", still speaking erroneously, claiming to be "the chosen of God".

 

[Keraz]

Ezekiel 21:1-7 This is the Word of the Lord: Face toward Jerusalem and prophesy against the Land of Israel. Say to that Land: I am against you, I shall draw My sword and make away with both righteous and wicked among you. I intend to destroy both good and evil people, from the Negev, [Southern Israel] Northward, all will know that it is the Lord who has acted. All courage will fail on that Day, it is coming, it will surely take place.

This will be the Day of the Lord’s vengeance and wrath. There has not been any previous event, as described, in Israel. Ezekiel 20:47-48, Isaiah 22:14, Jeremiah 21:14.

‘The righteous and wicked alike will be killed’. Jeremiah 10:18, Amos 2:4-5

It will surely happen: the next prophesied event, which will clear the entire Middle East, thus enabling His people, true Christian Israelites, to gather in and live in all of the holy Land. Psalms 83, Revelation 6:12-17, Isaiah 2:12-22, Joel 2:1-11.

Ezekiel 21:8-13 Prophesy: A sword is sharpened and polished, ready to kill. Should we respect the sceptre of Judah? No, the sword despises it. The sword of destruction is ready for the hand of the slaughterer. Cry aloud and lament, for testing will surely come upon My people and on all Israel’s leaders who are given over to be slain with My people. Mourn and wail, for what if the sceptre of Judah does not continue?

The people currently occupying all of the Holy Land will be killed or displaced. Lament, for My people [Judah] too, will be slain. Jeremiah 12:14, Ezekiel 16:35-41, Isaiah 22:14

Ezekiel 21:14-17 Prophesy: Strike your hands together, swing the sword three times. It is the instrument of slaughter, whirling around. Their courage will fail and many will stumble and fall. Lightning flashes left and right – blocking all escape routes, terrible will be the slaughter. Then, I too, will strike My hands together, My wrath will subside. I, the Lord have spoken.

“Swing the sword three times” Refers to the judgement and dispersion of Judah. 1/ Babylon. 2/ Rome. 3/ to come. Zechariah 13:7-9, Jeremiah 19:11, Matthew 21:41, Luke 19:27. Is the third ‘swing of the sword’, the Holocaust? No, because that was just the worst of many pogroms and massacres of the Jews since 70-135 AD.

Ezekiel 21:18-24 This is a fulfilled prophecy of how God led Babylon to attack and destroy Jerusalem. The House of Judah were taken into captivity in 586 BCE, because of their sins. 2 Kings 23:27.

Ezekiel 21:25-27 And you, you impious and wicked ruler of Israel [King Zedekiah of Judah. 2 Kings 25:6] your fate has come upon you. Off with your crown, it will not be as it was, the lowly will be exalted and the exalted, brought low. I will overturn, overturn, overturn it, until He comes – who is the rightful ruler, I shall install Him.

King Zedekiah was blinded and his sons killed, then imprisoned in Babylon. That is the exalted are brought low. Then, the lowly raised – these are the kings daughters, taken to Ireland [Hibernia = Hebrews Land] by Jeremiah. Princess Tea Tephi married King Herremon of Ireland. Their royal line was ‘overturned‘- to Scotland, then ‘overturned’- to England, now the British [Brit = covenant: ish = people] royal line now holds the sceptre, next to hand it to King Jesus. 2 Samuel 7:16.

Ezekiel 21:28-32 Prophesy to the Ammonites.......you will be fuel for the fire, remembered no more. = Modern Jordan, “still living in the place of their origin “. ‘Their beliefs are a lie and for their insults against Israel’. Deuteronomy 32:41-43, Jeremiah 12:14, Amos 1:13-15.
Ref: REB, NIV. Verses abridged

 

[Davy]

Ezra 1 and 2 only mention the tribes of Judah, Benjamin and Levi because it is explicitly about the territory of Judah, see Ezra 1:3 and 2:1. Why should the other 10 tribes be mentioned if they live somewhere else?

As I said, Paul mentioned all 12 tribes in Acts 26:7. They have returned.

Jeremiah 16:15 prophesied the return of all Israel, not just three tribes. This prophecy was already fulfilled after the time of the Babylonian exile.

By the way, Ezra 2:70 confirms that all Israel has returned.

Albert Barnes comments on this passage:

I showed you the Scriptures which proves those of the ten tribe northern kingdom were not even in the holy land when the "house of Judah" (tribes of Judah, Benjamin, and Levi) went captive to Babylon by Nebuchadnezzar.

So what kind of person cannot understand that when a people (ten tribes) are NOT EVEN PRESENT IN THE HOLY LAND when king Nebuchadnezzar took Judah, Benjamin, and Levi captive to Babylon, that means the ten tribes DID NOT GO CAPTIVE TO BABYLON BY NEBUCHADNEZZAR?

 

[Davy]

Ezra refers to all those Israelites who did return, not to all who existed at that time. They consisted mainly of the House of Judah, but a few from all the tribes did go back then, as they still do today. They become Jews and they reject Jesus as the Messiah. Their fate is well Prophesied.

When we honestly examine the biblical record, it becomes clear that the so-called “lost” tribes of Israel are not really lost at all. Rather, it is their identity as Israel that has been lost. Thus, as we search for the “lost” tribes, we should not look for a Sabbath-keeping people who call themselves Israel. Indeed, as the exiled northern ten tribes wandered from the Middle East, they were known by other names; such as Cimmerians, Scythians, Celts, Saxons, etc. names historians and researchers have not linked to ancient Israel, mostly because it doesn’t fit with their beliefs. They say the Western peoples are Caucasians and either ignore how they got to the Caucasus region, or tout fanciful stories of Neanderthals and fossils.

When Jesus sent the twelve out to preach the Gospel, He said: “Do not go into the way of the Gentiles, and do not enter into a city of the Samaritans [Gentiles who displaced the northern tribes]; but go instead to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. Matthew 10:5-6

Jesus and His disciples knew the whereabouts of the “lost” northern tribes—and that they, in fact, were the “house of Israel.” Why do we hear almost nothing of the original apostles after about 60 AD? After preaching the Gospel to the Jews and being rejected by them, the apostles took the Gospel to the northern tribes where they had become re-established in new lands. During the years immediately preceding the fall of Jerusalem in 70 AD, we hear nothing of Peter and James? Why? They went, as Christ instructed, to the “lost” tribes of Israel and the Gospel was accepted by them; now the Christianized Western nations. Jesus’ Mission WAS successful!


Prior to the House of Israel going into captivity, the prophet Amos quoted God as saying: Behold, the eyes of the Lord GOD are on the sinful [Israelite] kingdom, and I will erase it from the face of the earth [it would disappear as a kingdom]; except that I will not completely destroy the house of Jacob [Israel],’ says the LORD. ‘For lo, I will command, and I will shake the house of Israel among all the nations, as one shakes with a sieve, yet not a grain shall fall to the earth.

That is, the Israelites as a people would not be utterly lost or destroyed. Amos 9:8-9

As a nation, the northern kingdom vanished in captivity and was later “sifted” among numerous countries. But it was not utterly subsumed by them. This truth shows how amazing God’s plan is; His chosen people hidden amongst the nations, who will fulfil the prayer of Solomon: 2 Chronicles 6:36-39

Writing during the Jews’ captivity in Babylon, (135 years after the fall of Samaria) Daniel refers as well to those Israelites who were afar off, scattered throughout many nations, Daniel 9:7, but not lost to God.

After suffering decades of harsh punishment in captivity, significant numbers of Israelites would migrate toward the northwest, re-establishing themselves in various areas. Over time they would re-emerge as Christians, from every tribe, race nation and language, yet ignorant of their own true identity!

Contrary to misinformed scholars and those with another agenda, the ancient House of Israel was not “irretrievably lost”—for God has decreed that they would remain His people. In fact, their modern descendants are the majority in several of today’s nations. Moreover, the House of Israel is still to be reunited with the House of Judah in the latter days in the, as yet unfulfilled prophecy of Ezekiel 37:16-22.

I wouldn't even waste time to respond to that one, he doesn't care about the Bible Scriptures as written, he is here to push a false agenda.

 

[Earburner]

Ezekiel 21:1-7 This is the Word of the Lord: Face toward Jerusalem and prophesy against the Land of Israel. Say to that Land: I am against you, I shall draw My sword and make away with both righteous and wicked among you. I intend to destroy both good and evil people, from the Negev, [Southern Israel] Northward, all will know that it is the Lord who has acted. All courage will fail on that Day, it is coming, it will surely take place.

This will be the Day of the Lord’s vengeance and wrath. There has not been any previous event, as described, in Israel. Ezekiel 20:47-48, Isaiah 22:14, Jeremiah 21:14.

‘The righteous and wicked alike will be killed’. Jeremiah 10:18, Amos 2:4-5

It will surely happen: the next prophesied event, which will clear the entire Middle East, thus enabling His people, true Christian Israelites, to gather in and live in all of the holy Land. Psalms 83, Revelation 6:12-17, Isaiah 2:12-22, Joel 2:1-11.

Ezekiel 21:8-13 Prophesy: A sword is sharpened and polished, ready to kill. Should we respect the sceptre of Judah? No, the sword despises it. The sword of destruction is ready for the hand of the slaughterer. Cry aloud and lament, for testing will surely come upon My people and on all Israel’s leaders who are given over to be slain with My people. Mourn and wail, for what if the sceptre of Judah does not continue?

The people currently occupying all of the Holy Land will be killed or displaced. Lament, for My people [Judah] too, will be slain. Jeremiah 12:14, Ezekiel 16:35-41, Isaiah 22:14

Ezekiel 21:14-17 Prophesy: Strike your hands together, swing the sword three times. It is the instrument of slaughter, whirling around. Their courage will fail and many will stumble and fall. Lightning flashes left and right – blocking all escape routes, terrible will be the slaughter. Then, I too, will strike My hands together, My wrath will subside. I, the Lord have spoken.

“Swing the sword three times” Refers to the judgement and dispersion of Judah. 1/ Babylon. 2/ Rome. 3/ to come. Zechariah 13:7-9, Jeremiah 19:11, Matthew 21:41, Luke 19:27. Is the third ‘swing of the sword’, the Holocaust? No, because that was just the worst of many pogroms and massacres of the Jews since 70-135 AD.

Ezekiel 21:18-24 This is a fulfilled prophecy of how God led Babylon to attack and destroy Jerusalem. The House of Judah were taken into captivity in 586 BCE, because of their sins. 2 Kings 23:27.

Ezekiel 21:25-27 And you, you impious and wicked ruler of Israel [King Zedekiah of Judah. 2 Kings 25:6] your fate has come upon you. Off with your crown, it will not be as it was, the lowly will be exalted and the exalted, brought low. I will overturn, overturn, overturn it, until He comes – who is the rightful ruler, I shall install Him.

King Zedekiah was blinded and his sons killed, then imprisoned in Babylon. That is the exalted are brought low. Then, the lowly raised – these are the kings daughters, taken to Ireland [Hibernia = Hebrews Land] by Jeremiah. Princess Tea Tephi married King Herremon of Ireland. Their royal line was ‘overturned‘- to Scotland, then ‘overturned’- to England, now the British [Brit = covenant: ish = people] royal line now holds the sceptre, next to hand it to King Jesus. 2 Samuel 7:16.

Ezekiel 21:28-32 Prophesy to the Ammonites.......you will be fuel for the fire, remembered no more. = Modern Jordan, “still living in the place of their origin “. ‘Their beliefs are a lie and for their insults against Israel’. Deuteronomy 32:41-43, Jeremiah 12:14, Amos 1:13-15.
Ref: REB, NIV. Verses abridged

Let's "search" for the prophetic "scriptures" about Jesus, and not the Jews! John 5:39.

I still see all the above as beginning soon after the Day of Pentecost, whereby the Righteousness of God was established in and through Jesus (the "sword" taken out of the "sheath" of secrecy) and then through faith in Him, the Gift of God's Righteousness (His Holy Spirit) is freely given to men, which eclipses all other forms of self righteousness, of which is also wickedness.

Israel's judgment came to them in 70AD, and shall continue unto the consummation. KJV Dan. 9:24-27
[27] And he [Jesus] shall confirm the covenant [NC] with many for one week : and in the midst of the week [in the flesh, then in the latter of that same week by His Spirit]
he [Jesus, by His death and resurrection] shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation [Temple services] to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he [Jesus] shall make it [the temple and Israel] desolate [void of God], even until the consummation, and that determined [verse 24-the Righteousness of God] shall be POURED [out] upon the desolate [all who were and are of faith in Jesus, but void of God's Holy Spirit]. Acts 2:16-21

 

[Davy]

Gotta love it when id someone has a different opinion than another, that they are lying when they certainly are not.

For it to be a lie, the person saying it must know its untrue.

But saying "You're lying" stabs one more, right?

I said that in reference to the following BIBLE PROOF... so you ought to understand what my post was about before you go off mocking what I said and looking like a dufas.

Rev 6:14-17
14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;

16 And said to the mountains and rocks, "Fall on us, and hide us from the face of Him That sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
17 For the great day of His wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?"
KJV

Anyone that can read English with a little common sense can understand the above time of GOD'S WRATH is on the LAST DAY of this world when Jesus comes. It's even impossible to get around that "heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places" as being any other time than the LAST DAY of this world!


The above Revelation 6 Scripture was being denied... that it is about the LAST DAY of this present world when that happens. So with your misquoting me by NOT including the subject I was covering places you with that one who originally denied that above Scripture.

 

[Cassandra]

I said that in reference to the following BIBLE PROOF... so you ought to understand what my post was about before you go off mocking what I said and looking like a dufas.

Rev 6:14-17
14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;

16 And said to the mountains and rocks, "Fall on us, and hide us from the face of Him That sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
17 For the great day of His wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?"
KJV

Anyone that can read English with a little common sense can understand the above time of GOD'S WRATH is on the LAST DAY of this world when Jesus comes. It's even impossible to get around that "heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places" as being any other time than the LAST DAY of this world!


The above Revelation 6 Scripture was being denied... that it is about the LAST DAY of this present world when that happens. So with your misquoting me by NOT including the subject I was covering places you with that one who originally denied that above Scripture.

Dont call me a dufas( actually it's dufus). I'm not the one who had to back pedal to explain why I called someone a liar. You said it because you were angry. I understand that, but a person who believes something different from you is not a liar

 

[Davy]

Dont call me a dufas( actually it's dufus). I'm not the one who had to back pedal to explain why I called someone a liar. You said it because you were angry. I understand that, but a person who believes something different from you is not a liar

You sure spent time backpedaling in order to quote my post, you hypocrite.

 

[Cassandra]

No I didn't . Just correcting your observation.

 

[Davy]

No I didn't . Just correcting your observation.

You need to pray for forgiveness of going behind my back with hunting words that you THINK you can use against me, you hypocrite. Is there no end to your evil deeds?

 

[Davy]

So brethren in Christ that DO know how to open up their Bible and study it, the Old Testament history of when God split the old nation of Israel in Solomon's day into 2 separate HOUSES and KINGDOMS, explains just who the 144,000 of the SEED of Israel are. The Old Testament history of that split begins in 1 Kings 11 and flows all the way through 2 Kings 17 when the kings of Assyria took all the northern ten tribes captive to Assyria and the lands of the Medes, leaving only the tribes of Judah, Benjamin, and Levi of the southern kingdom at Jerusalem-Judea.


Thus the Revelation 7 division of Israelites...............

1. Northern Ten Tribes, "house of Israel", or "kingdom of Israel", Jeroboam of the tribe of Ephraim as "king of Israel", with its capital city at Samaria in the northern land: tribes of Reuben, Gad, Aser, Nepthali, Manasses, Simeon, Issachar, Zabulon, Joseph. NONE of these were known as JEWS.

Notice that Rev.7 accounts for only 9 tribes of the northern ten tribes. The tribe of Dan is left out, and Joseph is put for Ephraim.


2. Southern Three Tribes, "house of Judah", or "kingdom of Judah", Solomon's son Rehoboam of the tribe of Judah and house of David as "king of Judah", with its capital city at Jerusalem in the southern lands of Judea: tribes of Judah, Benjamin, and Levi. Also included a small remnant of the ten tribes that refused Jeroboam's calf idols and went south and joined with Judah. These became known as the JEWS, that title take from the sole tribe of Judah, and land also gained that title of 'Judea' from the name of the tribe of Judah.

This remnant of ten tribes were those like Anna of Luke 2:36 that was among the Jews of the house of Judah at Christ's 1st coming, and prophesied about Him, as she was of the tribe of Asher of the ten tribes. That means her ancestors left the ten northern tribes and joined with Judah at some point, and thus was not taken captive by the Assyrians.



3. Per Old Testament history also, there were TWO SEPARATE CAPTIVITIES OF THE CHILDREN OF ISRAEL, not just one.

a. the 1st captivity was only about the northern 10 tribes by the kings of Assyria, in stages. The final stage was when Shalmaneser, king of Assyria, sieged Samaria in the days of Hoshea, king of Israel (ten tribes), and removed them all to the lands of Assyria and the Medes, per 2 Kings 18:9-12. This captivity of the ten northern tribes had NOTHING to do with Nebuchadnezzar, king of Babylon and the later Jews' captivity.

b. then around 120 years later, God sent Nebuchadnezzar, king of Babylon, upon Jerusalem-Judea and he took the 3 tribe "house of Judah" (JEWS) captive to Babylon for 70 years. And God through His servant Jeremiah told these JEWS to go, that He would take care of them. God did take good care of them in their Babylon captivity, so much so, that most of the 3 tribe "house of Judah" chose to stay in Babylon instead of returning to Jerusalem. Only a very small remnant of Jews returned to Jerusalem to rebuild the temple, city, and walls, and they are listed in Ezra 2. This did NOT involve the majority of the ten tribes in the north that had already been removed earlier by the kings of Assyria.

The ten tribes as a majority NEVER returned to the holy lands to this day. Per 1 Kings 11, God promised He would always leave one tribe at Jerusalem. And that has been a small remnant of the "house of Judah", 3 tribes of Judah, Benjamin, and Levi. To this day in the nation of Israel, it is made up of a small group of Sephardic JEWS of old Israel, and the majority are Ashkenazi Jewish converts from old, along with foreigner Idumeans of Esau, and other strangers that converted to the Jew's religion centuries ago. That is who the modern-day JEWS are in today's nation state of Israel. It is also who the JEWS are today which are scattered throughout the countries like the ten tribes were scattered.

And the main point is, the JEWS 'know' they are of Israel still. They did not lose heritage from old Israel, the feast days, new moons, sabbaths, etc. But the 10 tribes DID... lose their heritage as the other part of old Israel. The ten tribes became lost to the Jews and to the world, but not to God.

 

[atpollard]

You can go to ten different Churches and you may hear ten different interpretations of just who the 144,000 of Revelation 7 are. For some reason, those who don't actually know, because they don't heed what is written there in Rev.7 as being literal, come up with all sorts of wild concoctions for who it means. But stick to God's Word as written, and it becomes revealed in simplicity.

It is all the Dragons chasing women with stars in their crowns, Jesus with a sword sticking out of His mouth, and bowls of wrath being poured out that tend to cause some people to question a 100% literal approach.

 

[Davy]

It is all the Dragons chasing women with stars in their crowns, Jesus with a sword sticking out of His mouth, and bowls of wrath being poured out that tend to cause some people to question a 100% literal approach.

Every bit of God's Word is LITERAL.

What you don't understand about that apparently is this: even when God uses expressions, parable, metaphor, idioms, allegory, analogy, He is ALWAYS pointing to some LITERAL Truth.

Those who don't understand the above tend to TRY and divide God's Word into separate academia categories, never coming to a real understanding of what all God's Word says as written.

 

[atpollard]

Every bit of God's Word is LITERAL.

Jesus will have a sword sticking out of His mouth in Heaven?!!!!
[Nope.]

Every church has a Golden lampstand?
[Nope.]

Jesus will appear like a slain lamb? Yuck!
[Nope.]

Jesus is a wooden gate?
People are literal sheep? Plants?
[Nope.]

You have LITERALLY plucked your eye out already, Right?
You have LITERALLY cut off your hand already, Right?
[Nope? Then you don't believe "Every bit of God's Word is LITERAL" either, do you?]

Literal (adjective): according with the letter of the scriptures : adhering to fact or to the ordinary construction or primary meaning of a term or expression : free from exaggeration or embellishment : characterized by a concern mainly with facts

 

[Earburner]

Dont call me a dufas( actually it's dufus). I'm not the one who had to back pedal to explain why I called someone a liar. You said it because you were angry. I understand that, but a person who believes something different from you is not a liar

Ref. #287:
A finished diamond has many facets.
If ten people surrounded that diamond, gazing upon it under a light, each are going to see different variations of colors, due to "the light" being refracted through it.

What one sees, doesn't change the diamond or the light.

A classic example of this is the four accounts of the gospel, who is Christ.
The Holy Spirit of God gave them their remembrance of the account of Jesus' life, through their own mind.

 

[Davy]

Jesus will have a sword sticking out of His mouth in Heaven?!!!!
[Nope.]

Have you not read read Hebrews 4:12 of how The Word of God is sharper than any two-edged sword? Just what is it that you 'think'... comes out of one's mouth? Did you not believe the Scriptures that declare the worlds were framed by The Word of God, and that by The Word of God the heavens were of old? Did you not know that God spoke in the beginning and His creation came to pass as a result?

Thus the 'sword' that Lord Jesus will wield at His return is about a very LITERAL MATTER, called The Word of God! Even 2 Thess.2:8 reveals that Christ Jesus will consume the Wicked one by the Spirit of His mouth.

How many more lessons like the above does your little NON-Bible-studious mind require, oh great one that knows all things?

Every church has a Golden lampstand?
[Nope.]

If you had actually FINISHED reading and studying Revelation 1, you would have caught the fact that Lord Jesus said the 7 candlesticks (or lampstands) ARE the 7 Churches! It means the 7 candlesticks in Heaven that John saw represent the 7 earthly Churches in John's day. So there again, a symbol is used to represent a LITERAL Truth.

Jesus will appear like a slain lamb? Yuck!
[Nope.]

The idea of the lamb slain is a METAPHOR that LITERALLY points to Jesus as the Perfect Sacrifice for sin for all time. Did you not know that Jesus was crucified according God's Old Testament requirement of the Passover lamb sacrifice? And there you use vain terms about it like "Yuck!"?

It's pretty obvious that you skipped English comprehension class in grade school, and you need to go back to study up on the use of metaphor, parable, allegory, analogy, expression, idioms and the like. I'm surprised that you even know how to read any... English.

 

[Earburner]

Have you not read read Hebrews 4:12 of how The Word of God is sharper than any two-edged sword? Just what is it that you 'think'... comes out of one's mouth? Did you not believe the Scriptures that declare the worlds were framed by The Word of God, and that by The Word of God the heavens were of old? Did you not know that God spoke in the beginning and His creation came to pass as a result?

Thus the 'sword' that Lord Jesus will wield at His return is about a very LITERAL MATTER, called The Word of God! Even 2 Thess.2:8 reveals that Christ Jesus will consume the Wicked one by the Spirit of His mouth.

How many more lessons like the above does your little NON-Bible-studious mind require, oh great one that knows all things?


If you had actually FINISHED reading and studying Revelation 1, you would have caught the fact that Lord Jesus said the 7 candlesticks (or lampstands) ARE the 7 Churches! It means the 7 candlesticks in Heaven that John saw represent the 7 earthly Churches in John's day. So there again, a symbol is used to represent a LITERAL Truth.



The idea of the lamb slain is a METAPHOR that LITERALLY points to Jesus as the Perfect Sacrifice for sin for all time. Did you not know that Jesus was crucified according God's Old Testament requirement of the Passover lamb sacrifice? And there you use vain terms about it like "Yuck!"?

It's pretty obvious that you skipped English comprehension class in grade school, and you need to go back to study up on the use of metaphor, parable, allegory, analogy, expression, idioms and the like. I'm surprised that you even know how to read any... English.

Are you taking the written words of God literally, as you say that you do? Could it be that you don't understand the words "literally" and "verbatim"?

Definition of LITERALLY

in a literal sense or manner: such as; in a way that uses the ordinary or primary meaning of a term or expression; —used to emphasize the truth and accuracy of a statement or description… See the full definition

www.merriam-webster.com

Or is it that you are meaning to describe your methodology of understanding the written words of God to be "verbatim"?

Definition of VERBATIM

in the exact words : word for word… See the full definition

www.merriam-webster.com

So then, are you understanding metaphors, parables, allegories, analogies, expressions, idioms and the like, as being literal or verbatim?

By most people, I think that the misuse of the word "literal" is being confused with the word "verbatim".
For example: should we read and understand the parable of the Rich man and Lazarus as being literal or verbatim?
I suggest that it should be understood literally, and not verbatim.

 

[Earburner]

So brethren in Christ that DO know how to open up their Bible and study it, the Old Testament history of when God split the old nation of Israel in Solomon's day into 2 separate HOUSES and KINGDOMS, explains just who the 144,000 of the SEED of Israel are. The Old Testament history of that split begins in 1 Kings 11 and flows all the way through 2 Kings 17 when the kings of Assyria took all the northern ten tribes captive to Assyria and the lands of the Medes, leaving only the tribes of Judah, Benjamin, and Levi of the southern kingdom at Jerusalem-Judea.


Thus the Revelation 7 division of Israelites...............

1. Northern Ten Tribes, "house of Israel", or "kingdom of Israel", Jeroboam of the tribe of Ephraim as "king of Israel", with its capital city at Samaria in the northern land: tribes of Reuben, Gad, Aser, Nepthali, Manasses, Simeon, Issachar, Zabulon, Joseph. NONE of these were known as JEWS.

Notice that Rev.7 accounts for only 9 tribes of the northern ten tribes. The tribe of Dan is left out, and Joseph is put for Ephraim.


2. Southern Three Tribes, "house of Judah", or "kingdom of Judah", Solomon's son Rehoboam of the tribe of Judah and house of David as "king of Judah", with its capital city at Jerusalem in the southern lands of Judea: tribes of Judah, Benjamin, and Levi. Also included a small remnant of the ten tribes that refused Jeroboam's calf idols and went south and joined with Judah. These became known as the JEWS, that title take from the sole tribe of Judah, and land also gained that title of 'Judea' from the name of the tribe of Judah.

This remnant of ten tribes were those like Anna of Luke 2:36 that was among the Jews of the house of Judah at Christ's 1st coming, and prophesied about Him, as she was of the tribe of Asher of the ten tribes. That means her ancestors left the ten northern tribes and joined with Judah at some point, and thus was not taken captive by the Assyrians.



3. Per Old Testament history also, there were TWO SEPARATE CAPTIVITIES OF THE CHILDREN OF ISRAEL, not just one.

a. the 1st captivity was only about the northern 10 tribes by the kings of Assyria, in stages. The final stage was when Shalmaneser, king of Assyria, sieged Samaria in the days of Hoshea, king of Israel (ten tribes), and removed them all to the lands of Assyria and the Medes, per 2 Kings 18:9-12. This captivity of the ten northern tribes had NOTHING to do with Nebuchadnezzar, king of Babylon and the later Jews' captivity.

b. then around 120 years later, God sent Nebuchadnezzar, king of Babylon, upon Jerusalem-Judea and he took the 3 tribe "house of Judah" (JEWS) captive to Babylon for 70 years. And God through His servant Jeremiah told these JEWS to go, that He would take care of them. God did take good care of them in their Babylon captivity, so much so, that most of the 3 tribe "house of Judah" chose to stay in Babylon instead of returning to Jerusalem. Only a very small remnant of Jews returned to Jerusalem to rebuild the temple, city, and walls, and they are listed in Ezra 2. This did NOT involve the majority of the ten tribes in the north that had already been removed earlier by the kings of Assyria.

The ten tribes as a majority NEVER returned to the holy lands to this day. Per 1 Kings 11, God promised He would always leave one tribe at Jerusalem. And that has been a small remnant of the "house of Judah", 3 tribes of Judah, Benjamin, and Levi. To this day in the nation of Israel, it is made up of a small group of Sephardic JEWS of old Israel, and the majority are Ashkenazi Jewish converts from old, along with foreigner Idumeans of Esau, and other strangers that converted to the Jew's religion centuries ago. That is who the modern-day JEWS are in today's nation state of Israel. It is also who the JEWS are today which are scattered throughout the countries like the ten tribes were scattered.

And the main point is, the JEWS 'know' they are of Israel still. They did not lose heritage from old Israel, the feast days, new moons, sabbaths, etc. But the 10 tribes DID... lose their heritage as the other part of old Israel. The ten tribes became lost to the Jews and to the world, but not to God.

No one is disagreeing with you about the Jews and the lost tribes. However, ever since Pentecost, none are understanding that ever since Jesus' shed blood, they are subject to the New Covenant of Jesus, and must be born again of God's Holy Spirit, while they still have breath, and therefore all of such (since Pentecost) are of "the Great Multitude". Why?
Under the NC through faith in Jesus, there is NO DIFFERENCE between Jew or Gentile in God's eyes. Rom. 3:22, 10:12.

The symbolic number of 144,000 are Israel of faith in "the promise that was to come", while "under the altar" of the OC. They are seen in Rev. 6:9-11 receiving the Gift of God's Holy Spirit. Though all had died in faith believing, God did not forget them (Malachi 3:16), while waiting still for Jesus to come and be glorified.
John 7
[38] He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.
[39] (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.
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[atpollard]

Have you not read read Hebrews 4:12 of how The Word of God is sharper than any two-edged sword? Just what is it that you 'think'... comes out of one's mouth?

Not "LITERAL"!
[Which is the point YOU refuse to acknowledge.]

Nobody has an actual sword (pointy flat metal object with sharp sides) LITERALLY sticking out of their actual mouth.
Yey YOU want to claim some parts of Revelation are 100% LITERAL when other parts are clearly SYMBOLIC METAPHORS with no explanation for why you choose one verse to be literal and another verse in the same paragraph to be symbolic.

Instead you disparage anyone that DARES to question that any verse might not be 100% literal.
I merely offered an explanation of WHY most people view most of Revelation as symbolic imagery (and, therefore, some question any part of it being intended as 100% literal). Of course it is TRUE, but it conveys SPIRITUAL TRUTH through symbolism and not LITERAL TRUTH through prophecy. The city will probably not extend up into outer space. Jesus will definitely not have an actual metal blade in His mouth.

 

[Davy]

Not "LITERAL"!
[Which is the point YOU refuse to acknowledge.]

Nobody has an actual sword (pointy flat metal object with sharp sides) LITERALLY sticking out of their actual mouth.
Yey YOU want to claim some parts of Revelation are 100% LITERAL when other parts are clearly SYMBOLIC METAPHORS with no explanation for why you choose one verse to be literal and another verse in the same paragraph to be symbolic.

Instead you disparage anyone that DARES to question that any verse might not be 100% literal.
I merely offered an explanation of WHY most people view most of Revelation as symbolic imagery (and, therefore, some question any part of it being intended as 100% literal). Of course it is TRUE, but it conveys SPIRITUAL TRUTH through symbolism and not LITERAL TRUTH through prophecy. The city will probably not extend up into outer space. Jesus will definitely not have an actual metal blade in His mouth.

You definitely... need to go back to school and learn about the English language. It is clear that you do not know the difference between 'literal' speech and 'metaphorical' speech.

As I said before, even metaphors, parable, allegory, analogy, idiom, figures of speech, are about LITERAL THINGS.

So what you are actually doing, with MOCKING the 'idea' of figures of speech in God's Word, by not grasping how those things point to LITERAL THINGS, it means you are actually MOCKING THE WORD OF GOD. And a TRUE Christian would NEVER do such a thing! Therefore, I do NOT believe you are a TRUE Christian and have come here under false pretense.