The Unsaved Man Does Not Need To “Stop Sinning”

[GEN2REV]

Thats not what paul said.

He said God WILL (not might) complete it until the day of Christ.

That is what our hope is in, That is what our faith is in. If you do not trust that God will do what he promised. You lack faith.

If this is true, One must ask. What is my faith in, My ability to change myself and sanctify myself and grow myself to get myself to heaven. Or in Christ.

And those who hold fast to that are the "Many (who) will say ... in that day, Lord, Lord, we ... have done all these things ..." And the Lord will say depart from Me you that commit sin and teach others to do the same. Matthew 7:22-23

 

[Eternally Grateful]

And those who hold fast to that are the "Many (who) will say ... in that day, Lord, Lord, we ... have done all these things ..." And the Lord will say depart from Me you that commit sin and teach others to do the same. Matthew 7:22-23

Jesus told those people he NEVER KNEW THEM

They were never saved, they did not walk away or lose salvation.

They practiced sin. John said those people had never known or seen God

So how you can proclaim these people who Jesus said he never knew them, and John said they never knew Jesus were saved and lost it or walked away from it. well, I can not understand.

 

[BloodBought 1953]

Can we not invite Him in AND clean ourselves up, utilizing His help?


Most certainly ! I believe it is the plan.....the Holy Spirit has been defined by Jesus as our “ Helper”—— NOT our “ Doer”.......A wise man will do his best to obey the Commandments —- THEY WERE GIVEN FOR OUR BENEFIT! Do you have a car manual ? Follow it and your car and your wallet will be the beneficiary.....it’s simply the smart thing to do. Do you want to have a Blessed Life here on Earth? Follow God’s “ Instruction Manual”..... guess who benefits from that?

Be smart.....be obedient to the Laws of God .....as I say , YOU will be the one to benefit! Don’t be dumb, though .....the bigger point of the Law is to show you that you can’t keep it and you are in dire need of a Savior....The Law was meant to “ shut you up” and lead you to Jesus......do THAT and God will put His Spirit in you and you will “ find yourself” Keeping the Law without having to try so hard....it’s a natural side effect of letting God Work THROUGH you.....He will do that if you Trust Him .....do you TRUST HIM , or do you trust in your ability to keep the Law—- something that even Paul referred to as “ an Impossible System “..... He also said that the Law was Great......but only if you know how to use it...

 

[GEN2REV]

There are more legalists than their are grace believers.

What YOU call legalists are those who faithfully obey the Commandments of God per scripture.

"The term hyper-grace has been used to describe a new wave of teaching that emphasizes the grace of God to the exclusion of other vital teachings such as repentance and confession of sin. Hyper-grace teachers maintain that all sin, past, present, and future, has already been forgiven, so there is no need for a believer to ever confess it. Hyper-grace teaching says that, when God looks at us, He sees only a holy and righteous people. The conclusion of hyper-grace teaching is that we are not bound by Jesus’ teaching, even as we are not under the Law; that believers are not responsible for their sin; and that anyone who disagrees is a pharisaical legalist. In short, hyper-grace teachers “pervert the grace of our God into a license for immorality” (Jude 1:4) and flirt with antinomianism."
What is hyper-grace? | GotQuestions.org

And those who do so are FAR less than the majority of Christians alive today; in the very stark minority to be exact.

 

[BloodBought 1953]

The idea that we say "Hey, God I'll be a Christian if you come on over here and clean up this mess."


Thats about half right....perhaps try it this way....it got a certain Publican Saved....Jesus said so.....From a sincere, contrite heart just say, “ Lord Jesus ,have Mercy on me , a Sinner” ......yep.....that will ge the job done...

 

[Eternally Grateful]

What YOU call legalists are those who faithfully obey the Commandments of God per scripture.

No, what I call legalists are moden day pharisees who think we must add to the work of the cross our own works of righteousness in order to be saved.

Grace believers faithfully Obey God. they are not legalists. Because they are not doing it to serve self. they do it because they love and serve God.

"The term hyper-grace has been used to describe a new wave of teaching that emphasizes the grace of God to the exclusion of other vital teachings such as repentance and confession of sin. Hyper-grace teachers maintain that all sin, past, present, and future, has already been forgiven, so there is no need for a believer to ever confess it. Hyper-grace teaching says that, when God looks at us, He sees only a holy and righteous people. The conclusion of hyper-grace teaching is that we are not bound by Jesus’ teaching, even as we are not under the Law; that believers are not responsible for their sin; and that anyone who disagrees is a pharisaical legalist. In short, hyper-grace teachers “pervert the grace of our God into a license for immorality” (Jude 1:4) and flirt with antinomianism."
What is hyper-grace? | GotQuestions.org

And those who do so are FAR less than the majority of Christians alive today; in the very stark minority to be exact.

Hyper grace is actually found in scripture, And I have studied most of these so called hypergrace teachers. when we had a wave in another chatroom. They do NOT exclude repentance. The confess no one can have true saving faith unless they repent. They also teach we are to confess our sins to each other

what they reject is the legalistic view that God only forgave past sins and we must confess a sin to be forgiven. All try grace believers reject this legalism. If jesus only paid for past sin. Our future sin would condemne us forever, we would have no hope of forgiveness.

Jesus died 2000 years ago. i would not commit my first sin for 200 years. If jesus did not pay for ALL my sin. I have have no hope.

 

[GEN2REV]

Can we not invite Him in AND clean ourselves up, utilizing His help?


Most certainly ! I believe it is the plan.....the Holy Spirit has been defined by Jesus as our “ Helper”—— NOT our “ Doer”.......A wise man will do his best to obey the Commandments —- THEY WERE GIVEN FOR OUR BENEFIT! Do you have a car manual ? Follow it and your car and your wallet will be the beneficiary.....it’s simply the smart thing to do. Do you want to have a Blessed Life here on Earth? Follow God’s “ Instruction Manual”..... guess who benefits from that?

Be smart.....be obedient to the Laws of God .....as I say , YOU will be the one to benefit! Don’t be dumb, though .....the bigger point of the Law is to show you that you can’t keep it and you are in dire need of a Savior....The Law was meant to “ shut you up” and lead you to Jesus......do THAT and God will put His Spirit in you and you will “ find yourself” Keeping the Law without having to try so hard....it’s a natural side effect of letting God Work THROUGH you.....He will do that if you Trust Him .....do you TRUST HIM , or do you trust in your ability to keep the Law—- something that even Paul referred to as “ an Impossible System “..... He also said that the Law was Great......but only if you know how to use it...

You guys always give me a chuckle. When I let you talk enough, you always make my own points for me.

Stir you up and give you enough rope and you hang yourselves. Every time.

If we are 100% incapable of obeying the Commandments by ourselves, and we obey them with the assistance of the Holy Spirit of Christ that was sealed in perfection after a life of obeying God's Commandments, we are not earning anything ourselves. ZERO merit to us. ALL merit to the Holy Spirit.

And THAT is the little secret your group wants so desperately for Christians to never find out.

It is the Holy Spirit that does the work, with our acceptance and faith and submission, and it is the Holy Spirit that gets all the credit.

Thus, ...................................... no works salvation.

Done and done.

 

[BloodBought 1953]

There is saying: 'Leopards can't change their spots' and it's like that for sinners - only god can change a person and make them a new creation. We have to be willing to let him work in us but we can't do it for ourselves however hard we try.

Nice post......I think of it this way....
Any man can “ change” ......anybody can “ turn over a new leaf”.....especially if he thinks that if he can change himself from an immoral man to a moral man , “ that” will get him to Heaven....”Appearing” to change becomes paramount especially when you are trying to convince the self- Righteous Church Crowd that you are Saved.....

Yep, people can “ change” but only God can TRANSFORM! That is what the “ inside of the cup” is referring to —— we can change the outside if the cup that people see, but only God can change us on the Inside——and that is the change he cares about....It’s an act of the Holy Spirit....

 

[GEN2REV]

No, what I call legalists are moden day pharisees who think we must add to the work of the cross our own works of righteousness in order to be saved.

See post #208

Grace believers faithfully Obey God.

How can they be obeying God? God set forth 10 Commandments.

All true grace believers reject this legalism. If jesus only paid for past sin. Our future sin would condemn us forever, we would have no hope of forgiveness.

You literally PREACH the very doctrine you are claiming to condemn when you preach that the Commandments are invalid to God today.

If jesus did not pay for ALL my sin. I have have no hope.

Your hope is in the Holy Spirit to assist you.

Answer me one question, please. What do you claim we need the Holy Spirit's assistance with if you preach that there are no more 10 Commandments to obey? Is it just to simply believe in Jesus and be loving to people?

Is that really it?

 

[GEN2REV]

The idea that we say "Hey, God I'll be a Christian if you come on over here and clean up this mess."


Thats about half right....perhaps try it this way....it got a certain Publican Saved....Jesus said so.....From a sincere, contrite heart just say, “ Lord Jesus ,have Mercy on me , a Sinner” ......yep.....that will ge the job done...

Because all Christians are sinners, right?

And God's just fine with that, right?

Psalms 1:1
Psalms 1:5
Psalms 26:9
Amos 9:10
Isaiah 13:9
1 Peter 2:24
1 John 3:8
Hebrews 12:3
Jude 1:15

 

[Eternally Grateful]

See post #208

And?

How can they be obeying God? God set forth 10 Commandments.

You do not obey the ten commands as required. why are you judging them and not yourself?

You literally PREACH the very doctrine you are claiming to condemn when you preach that the Commandments are invalid to God today.

Oh they are valid. Completely valid. the same curse that was given with the ten commands are given today. Cursed is the one who does not obey every word (jot and tittle)

The law you profess you must obey condemns you where you stand.

Your hope is in the Holy Spirit to assist you.

My hope is in God who keeps his promises (the spirit). Not in myself (the flesh)

Answer me one question, please. What do you claim we need the Holy Spirit's assistance with if you preach that there are no more 10 Commandments to obey? Is it just to simply believe in Jesus and be loving to people?

Is that really it?

lol. Typical legalists.

You make a strawman of saying someone claims to have said something they have never said and you try to use that against them

The law says do not commit adultry. But Jesus said if you look at a woman you have commited sin.

You can be stuck to ten commands, and be so deep in sin you can not even see it, Because your stuck on ten literal sins.

 

[BloodBought 1953]

Yeah, yeah. We get it. OSAS and Hyper-Grace and all the catchy modern trendy hyper-love and acceptance of all sinners nonsense and so on and so forth.

It's a train wreck and 95% of Christians today are all aboard.

Goinggg ..... DOWN????

What a great come back.....just full of Scripture and Reason to refute me—- NOT! I prefer to go with the thinking behind the old Hymn that you yourself have sung countless times as a hypocrite and didn’t even know it.....” Nothing of myself do I bring, it’s ONLY to the Cross that I cling”

Perhaps you think like Cain did —- He thought that “ He” had something to offer to God other than the Shed Blood Of an Innocent.....put forth your pitiful performance as you stand before Him—- let’s see how “ that” works for you.....you may find out too late that there was another song you sang and never meant ——“ Nothing But The Blood Of Jesus”....... you will find out someday that the song had it right all along...” Nothing” actually means NOTHING.....

 

[BloodBought 1953]

What YOU call legalists are those who faithfully obey the Commandments of God per scripture.



Those that “ try” to faithfully obey the Commandments Of God are people that I would call “ Wise”—- God will be pleased and the person that tries to be obedient will be blessed....

Now if that person thinks that his Salvation is in any way dependent on his wisdom and ability to keep the Commandments of God , I would call “ that” man Lost......Keeping the Commandments might make you a “ moral” man and even though that is much better than being an immoral man, Hell will be full Of “moral” men ..... you know them—- the “ Good Neighbor Sam” type....

Being a Moral Man just wont cut it with God......to get to Heaven , one must be Perfect! If you find that you don’t measure up to that Criteria, there’s some Good News out there ! To put it crudely, it’s a “ Loop- Hole” for smart enough and humble enough people to see the obvious— those Laws have a Curse attached to them ! Nobody can keep them 24/7 and if you break one , you have broken them all.....take the Way Out , the “Rescue Plan” That God has provided for hopeless , helpless Mankind..... Simply Believe that Jesus died for your sins and rose from the grave....do that and God will grant you the best deal in the universe....Christ gets your sins and you get His Perfection “imputed” to you.....it’s a gift.....don't Turn it Down......

 

[BloodBought 1953]

It is the Holy Spirit that does the work, with our acceptance and faith and submission, and it is the Holy Spirit that gets all the credit.

Thus, ...................................... no works salvation.



I bet that I am “ chuckling” more than you are.....you are “ preaching to the Choir” here.....are you new or something ? .....Nobody on this Forum is more Anti- Works for Salvation than I am ......your position and your post is confusing at this point....your Smugness and your Arrogance comes through loud and clear so at least you got “ that” going for you....Chuckle while you can—- if you continue to be the Legalist that you appear to be in the majority of your posts, you won’t be chuckling much on Judgement Day....tee hee.....

 

[BloodBought 1953]

Answer me one question, please. What do you claim we need the Holy Spirit's assistance with if you preach that there are no more 10 Commandments to obey? Is it just to simply believe in Jesus and be loving to people?

Is that really it?



According to Jesus, that really is * IT* —- despite the fact that you have a sinful craving to ADD to that....( this is why you have “ fallen from Grace” and don't even know it —- a subject for another time)

Jesus left us with only Two Commandments —- #1 Believe. #2 Love. You ask what part the Holy Spirit plays in these things? If not for the Holy Spirit , a Person would do neither.....”Nobody comes to God lest the Spirit draw him”....If you have been blessed enough to Believe it us only because God sent His Holy Spirit to you to” open your heart to the Gospel”......The “ Agape” type of Love that God desires is an additional Gift from the Holy Spirit....What a poor student of The Word you are.....

 

[Pearl]

Nice post......I think of it this way....
Any man can “ change” ......anybody can “ turn over a new leaf”.....especially if he thinks that if he can change himself from an immoral man to a moral man , “ that” will get him to Heaven....”Appearing” to change becomes paramount especially when you are trying to convince the self- Righteous Church Crowd that you are Saved.....

Yep, people can “ change” but only God can TRANSFORM! That is what the “ inside of the cup” is referring to —— we can change the outside if the cup that people see, but only God can change us on the Inside——and that is the change he cares about....It’s an act of the Holy Spirit....

Be transformed by the renewing of your mind.

 

[farouk]

Be transformed by the renewing of your mind.

Hi @Pearl ; it's all part of the work of repentance, that is ongoing, right?

 

[GEN2REV]

What a great come back.....just full of Scripture and Reason to refute me—- NOT! I prefer to go with the thinking behind the old Hymn that you yourself have sung countless times as a hypocrite and didn’t even know it.....” Nothing of myself do I bring, it’s ONLY to the Cross that I cling”

Perhaps you think like Cain did —- He thought that “ He” had something to offer to God other than the Shed Blood Of an Innocent.....put forth your pitiful performance as you stand before Him—- let’s see how “ that” works for you.....you may find out too late that there was another song you sang and never meant ——“ Nothing But The Blood Of Jesus”....... you will find out someday that the song had it right all along...” Nothing” actually means NOTHING.....

More Hyper-Grace Blather.

THAT's the song your crowd sings as they march together in great bliss of ignorance and harmony of heresy down the wide road to the fire of the fellowship of the blind, singing and dancing in darkness.

 

[farouk]

More Hyper-Grace Blather.

THAT's the song your crowd sings as they march together in great bliss of ignorance and harmony of heresy down the wide road to the fire of the fellowship of the blind, singing and dancing in darkness.

Great poster!

I do love that hymn: "Nothing in my hand I bring, Simply to Thy cross I cling..."

Another great one is: "Sovereign grace o'er sin abounding"...

 

[BloodBought 1953]

What YOU call legalists are those who faithfully obey the Commandments of God per scripture.


Think again, Chester—— A “ Legalist” thinks he is Saved or stays saved by keeping the Law.....In his confusion and ignorance , he never realizes he is wasting his time.....even if he “ could” keep the Law , an Impossible task that even Paul confessed that neither He nor his fathers could do, the Bible plainly declares that “ by the Keeping of the Law , NO flesh will be Justified”......you give new meaning to being a “ Poor Student of the Word”......All Of this stuff is “ Christianity 101— it goes right over your head...Pray that God Grant you “ eyes to see”......