"The word was a god"?

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Earburner

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Please help me to understand what is meant here. If Jesus was "a god" then He could be THE God or a false god. What else could this mean? How can Jesus be "a god"?
In the garden of Gethsemane, when Jesus prayed to His Father, He said this:
KJV-John.17[5] And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

JW/NWT- John 17:5 So now, Father, glorify me at your side with the glory that I had alongside you before the world was.

> Therefore, because Jesus confessed openly that His existence of being extends into eternity past, and that He had the glory with His Father before the world was created, Jesus declared that He is God the Son, the second Person of The God Head, being equally God as the Father.
 
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ChristisGod

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If it’s not there then why ask me to show you?

There is no gold in Fort Knox it’s all a lie and they are just printing paper money with no backing, haven’t you heard?
Thanks for making my case for me that my ideas are biblical and your are well lets just say your own personal thoughts that are not found in the Bible.
 

JohnPaul

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Thanks for making my case for me that my ideas are biblical and your are well lets just say your own personal thoughts that are not found in the Bible.
It’s not my personal thoughts, gambling is a sin as is any vice, such as gluttony. Don’t be full of yourself. Just because something is not in the Bible doesn’t make it right.
 

ChristisGod

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It’s not my personal thoughts, gambling is a sin as is any vice, such as gluttony. Don’t be full of yourself. Just because something is not in the Bible doesn’t make it right.
sorry but you are equivocating/conflating the two.

gluttony is a sin

where does the bible say to bet is a sin ?

if that were true then an IRA is a sin, 401k mutual funds are all a risk, a bet therefore a sin.

next
 

JohnPaul

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sorry but you are equivocating/conflating the two.

gluttony is a sin

where does the bible say to bet is a sin ?

if that were true then an IRA is a sin, 401k mutual funds are all a risk, a bet therefore a sin.

next
Gambling is a sin, I have a 401k and contribute money towards by do not get involved in investing and stocks, so whatever mine that comes out of my check is the money that is in my account.

That’s not a bet.

Next….
 

David H.

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God is manifested in every believer. Just as God was manifested in Christ.

That passage does not say that God CAME in the flesh, nor that Jesus was God.

This is a truth the Holy Spirit reveals to the born again believer and is the test of the Spirit in you. If he has not revealed this to you, you are not born again, to put it bluntly.... Or worse have another deceiving spirit in you....

Those who are born again know this truth intrinsically as part of the unction of the Holy Spirit.
But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him. (1 John 2:27) (Also, 1 Corinthians 12:3)

I don’t believe in ghosts they are a figment of a person’s imagination.

That is because you do not have the Holy Spirit in you (God with us). Not only do you not know Godly love, you do not have the unction of the Holy Ghost. These are concepts foreign to the J.W.'s. This is why you rely on your works for your salvation, because somehow you think you can repay the debt you owe, and Love God the way he first loved us. Grace is the understanding that nothing we can do can repay the sacrifice of Christ on the cross, we can only receive that free gift of Grace and taking up our cross daily in submission to the will of God.

I say this not to belittle you or mock you, as I admire the zeal of the J.W.'s, But rather to encourage you to seek the unction of the Holy Spirit who will teach you the truth so that you do not rely on the teachings of men, but can know the truth from author of those scriptures you hold dear, the Spirit of Truth. (2 Peter 1:20)
 
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ChristisGod

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Gambling is a sin, I have a 401k and contribute money towards by do not get involved in investing and stocks, so whatever mine that comes out of my check is the money that is in my account.

That’s not a bet.

Next….
a bet is a risk not a guarantee right- so if the stock market crashes you lose it all correct ?
 

Michiah-Imla

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If he has not revealed this to you, you are not born again, to put it bluntly....

That is a serious accusation without scriptural backing.

There is no precedent in scripture for this rebuke. Nowhere in scripture is there an example of the Apostles rebuking anyone for denying Jesus is God; heck, they don’t ever even say Jesus is God anywhere in scripture.

Be careful with justifying your unscriptural accusation by saying “the spirit hasn’t revealed” an unscriptural doctrine. How many other doctrines can be put forth without scripture this way?

The Catholic Church uses this same device to keep their followers obedient to unbiblical doctrines.
 
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JohnPaul

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a bet is a risk not a guarantee right- so if the stock market crashes you lose it all correct ?
The one I have is not linked to stocks, whatever I deduct is what goes into my account, so I don’t risk losses.

Next…
 

JohnPaul

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This is a truth the Holy Spirit reveals to the born again believer and is the test of the Spirit in you. If he has not revealed this to you, you are not born again, to put it bluntly.... Or worse have another deceiving spirit in you....

Those who are born again know this truth intrinsically as part of the unction of the Holy Spirit.
But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him. (1 John 2:27) (Also, 1 Corinthians 12:3)



That is because you do not have the Holy Spirit in you (God with us). Not only do you not know Godly love, you do not have the unction of the Holy Ghost. These are concepts foreign to the J.W.'s. This is why you rely on your works for your salvation, because somehow you think you can repay the debt you owe, and Love God the way he first loved us. Grace is the understanding that nothing we can do can repay the sacrifice of Christ on the cross, we can only receive that free gift of Grace and taking up our cross daily in submission to the will of God.

I say this not to belittle you or mock you, as I admire the zeal of the J.W.'s, But rather to encourage you to seek the unction of the Holy Spirit who will teach you the truth so that you do not rely on the teachings of men, but can know the truth from author of those scriptures you hold dear, the Spirit of Truth. (2 Peter 1:20)
I have the love of God and Christ in me.
 

David H.

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That is a serious accusation without scriptural backing.

There is no precedent in scripture for this rebuke. Nowhere in scripture is there an example of the Apostles rebuking anyone for denying Jesus is God; heck, they don’t ever even say Jesus is God anywhere in scripture.

Be careful with justifying your unscriptural accusation by saying the spirit hasn’t revealed an unscriptural doctrine. How many other doctrines can be put forth without scripture this way?

The Catholic Church uses this same device to keep their followers obedient to unbiblical doctrines.

I cannot prove this to you, and only know what the Spirit has shown me. Jesus is God in human form, yes he is distinct from the Father, as the Son, and fully human, thus the first among creation, but he is also fully God. Like I said the Holy Spirit confirms this truth to the new born believer, and is the Unction(anointing) we as believers receive when we are born again. Just as Charles Wesley when he was first saved penned the hymn "and can it be"....
Amazing love! How can it be,
That Thou, my God, shouldst die for me?

I was brought up in the church, born again at a young age, and indoctrinated this truth as part of my religion, when I became a young man the truth of this was revealed in fulness to me by the Spirit, When He knocked me off that pedestal of pride that indoctrinated church goers raise themselves upon, it was then that I knew the fulness of His Love for me and how intricately the love of God is tied to the deity of Christ. There is no way I can repay that love of the creator dying for His creation.

This is why throughout the centuries of the church, the deity of Christ has been a test of the Spirit in you, used by the church to determine who is of God (Born of the Spirit) and who is not. It is like Christianity's "secret handshake, or secret password.

Can you say "Jesus is THE LORD"? Only those who have the Holy Ghost can say this and mean it. (1 Corinthians 12:3)
 

David H.

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I have the love of God and Christ in me.

If you do not know what Godly love is, how can you know you have the Love of God? Has the God shown his love for you....not mentally, but have you experienced that love?

The Sweet, Sweet Love of Jesus

[1]
My mournful tears like diamonds fell.
They fell upon the Master’s breast --
a mantle fit just for the King --
and there I found His blessed rest.

(Chorus)
Oh, the sweet, sweet love of Jesus is
my banquet meal, my daily bread.
No other God shall I ever serve
but The Lifter of My Head.

[2]
No weapon formed, no raging sea,
no mountain high, nor sinking sand
shall ever take His love from me,
nor snatch me from My Father’s hand.

(Chorus)
[3]
The sweet, sweet love of Jesus is
so gentle like the morning dew,
refreshing to my thirsty soul.
Embraced by Love, I’m made anew.

[Bridge]
Oh, the sweet, sweet love of Jesus is.
The sweet, sweet love of Jesus is.

Lyrics -- The Sweet, Sweet Love of Jesus | FaithWriters
 

JohnPaul

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If you do not know what Godly love is, how can you know you have the Love of God? Has the God shown his love for you....not mentally, but have you experienced that love?

The Sweet, Sweet Love of Jesus

[1]
My mournful tears like diamonds fell.
They fell upon the Master’s breast --
a mantle fit just for the King --
and there I found His blessed rest.

(Chorus)
Oh, the sweet, sweet love of Jesus is
my banquet meal, my daily bread.
No other God shall I ever serve
but The Lifter of My Head.

[2]
No weapon formed, no raging sea,
no mountain high, nor sinking sand
shall ever take His love from me,
nor snatch me from My Father’s hand.

(Chorus)
[3]
The sweet, sweet love of Jesus is
so gentle like the morning dew,
refreshing to my thirsty soul.
Embraced by Love, I’m made anew.

[Bridge]
Oh, the sweet, sweet love of Jesus is.
The sweet, sweet love of Jesus is.

Lyrics -- The Sweet, Sweet Love of Jesus | FaithWriters
Yes I have experienced God’s love.
 

Aunty Jane

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But Paul wrote Χριστόν in 1 Cor. 10:9, and Χριστόν does not appear in the Hebrew scripture. Here is Deut. 6:16 in the Septuagint:

οὐκ ἐκπειράσεις κύριον τὸν θεόν σου ὃν τρόπον ἐξεπειράσασθε ἐν τῷ Πειρασμῷ.
Let's go to a non-JW reference source to address this question.....

According to Strongs, Deuteronomy 6:16 is rendered....
“You shall not put H5254 the LORD H3068 your God H430 to H5254 the H5254 test H5254, as you tested H5254 Him at Massah H4532.

You can see "the LORD" is referenced by H3068, which is defined as.... "Yᵊhōvâ"...."יַהְוֶה proper name, of deity Yahweh, the proper name of the God of Israel".

So argue with Strongs if you wish....the oldest Septuagint manuscripts contain the Hebrew letters of the tetragrammaton in the Greek text. That was replaced by "kyrios" later.

And even if Paul was translating directly from the Hebrew rather than simply quoting from the Septuagint (a rare event for Paul when citing to the OT), the fact remains that of all the words Paul could have used to render the divine name in the original Hebrew text differently from the way the Septuagint rendered it, the one he chose was Χριστόν. Christos. Christ.
Did Paul believe that Jesus was Yahweh/Jehovah?
1 Corinthians 8:5-6...(NASB)
"For even if there are so-called gods whether in heaven or on earth, as indeed there are many gods and many lords, 6 yet for us there is only one God, the Father, from whom are all things, and we exist for Him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we exist through Him."
Speaking on behalf of all the apostles, who did Paul say was their "one God?....the Father!...AND who was their "one Lord?....Jesus Christ" who is clearly a separate entity to them.

Calling someone "Lord" was not necessarily calling them "God", as it was a form of respectful address in those days.
Sarah called her husband Abraham, "Lord" out of respect (1 Peter 3:6)....did she think he was God?
Another example is in England which has a "House of Lords"....are they considered "gods"? Obviously not.
Perhaps you should deepen your research?

I'm sorry, but the NWT has some big balls translating that word any other way.
That is your problem...not mine. How hard was it to demonstrate your error without using a single JW quotation?

When it comes to God's name, Jesus said in prayer to his Father....I have revealed Your name to the men whom You gave Me out of the world; they were Yours and You gave them to Me, and they have followed Your word. . . . and I have made Your name known to them, and will make it known, so that the love with which You loved Me may be in them, and I in them. . . . . I am no longer going to be in the world; and yet they themselves are in the world, and I am coming to You. Holy Father, keep them in Your name, the name which You have given Me, so that they may be one just as We are. 12 While I was with them, I was keeping them in Your name, which You have given Me; and I guarded them, and not one of them perished except the son of destruction, so that the Scripture would be fulfilled.” (NASB)

Read all of John 17 and see that Jesus always deferred to his superior Father, whose name he made known to his disciples at a time when the Jews had long since refused to utter it. Jehovah never told them to stop saying his name.....all he said was not to use it in a worthless way.
"God, furthermore, said to Moses, “Thus you shall say to the sons of Israel, ‘The Lord, the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you.’ This is My name forever, and this is My memorial-name to all generations. (Exodus 3:15 NASB)
In the Jewish Tanakh, where "the Lord" is seen in English, the tetragrammaton (יַהְוֶה) is clearly in the Hebrew text.

In the opening verses of John 17 Jesus says..."And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent. 4 I glorified You on the earth by accomplishing the work which You have given Me to do. 5 And now You, Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world existed."

So Jesus himself called his Father "the only true God" without including himself.....and, being "the firstborn of all creation" (Colossians 1:15) the pre-human Jesus has not always existed, but as he calls himself in Revelation 3:14....
"the faithful and true Witness, the Beginning of the creation of God".

The Bible does not argue with Jehovah's Witnesses.....we agree with what it actually says, not with how it is interpreted by biased trinitarians.

I don't make empty claims because research forms a large part of my faith. It is the research that forms a solid foundation for what I believe. I was raised in Christendom so I know what it teaches, and to me it was never teaching or practicing the truth of God's word.

I do not consider myself a victim of blind faith....I can support all that I believe by scripture....what about you?
 
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RedFan

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LYou can see "the LORD" is referenced by H3068, which is defined as.... "Yᵊhōvâ"...."יַהְוֶה proper name, of deity Yahweh, the proper name of the God of Israel".

So argue with Strongs if you wish....the oldest Septuagint manuscripts contain the Hebrew letters of the tetragrammaton in the Greek text. That was replaced by "kyrios" later.

Are we even reading the same thing? Paul didn't use "Lord" (kyrios) in 1 Cor. 10:9. He used "Christ."
 

teamventure

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This is a truth the Holy Spirit reveals to the born again believer and is the test of the Spirit in you. If he has not revealed this to you, you are not born again, to put it bluntly.... )

For those reading, if you deny Jesus is God, you are not born again.

(Not directed towards you David)
 
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Michiah-Imla

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if you deny Jesus is God, you are not born again

Unscriptural.

On the contrary, If you still sin you are not born again:

“We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not...” (1 John 5:18)

I have scripture for my charge.

You have none for yours.

Just empty talk and a fanciful imagination.
 

Aunty Jane

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Are we even reading the same thing? Paul didn't use "Lord" (kyrios) in 1 Cor. 10:9. He used "Christ."
Interesting that only some translations use "Christ" whilst others use "Lord"....so which is the correct translation?

Since Paul was quoting Deuteronomy 6:16 and the tetragrammaton was clearly in that text, "Christ" is a misleading translation to promote the trinity. This "Lord" is Jehovah. You are discovering the errors of pro-trinitarian translators.
No Jew in Moses' day would read Deuteronomy 6:16 and imagine that it meant anyone but their God, because they had indeed grieved Jehovah by their continuing complaining spirit.

Psalm 95:8-9....speaking for Jehovah.....
"Do not harden your hearts as at Meribah,
As on the day of Massah in the wilderness,
9 “When your fathers put Me to the test,
They tested Me, though they had seen My work."


Paul again says...speaking for Jehovah.....and quoting Deuteronomy 6:16....
"Do not harden your hearts as at Meribah,
As on the day of Massah in the wilderness,
9 “When your fathers put Me to the test,
They tested Me, though they had seen My work."


The scriptures are telling me something very different to what they are telling you.....how you read them will decide whether you have the truth...or not.
 

Aunty Jane

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That is because you do not have the Holy Spirit in you (God with us). Not only do you not know Godly love, you do not have the unction of the Holy Ghost.
Why use such outdated language?......"unction of the Holy Ghost"? Seriously?
Who uses the word "unction" anymore? If you mean "anointing", then why not just say it?

But then you might need to inform people what an "anointing" is?

These are concepts foreign to the J.W.'s. This is why you rely on your works for your salvation, because somehow you think you can repay the debt you owe, and Love God the way he first loved us. Grace is the understanding that nothing we can do can repay the sacrifice of Christ on the cross, we can only receive that free gift of Grace and taking up our cross daily in submission to the will of God.
You know, when I hear people telling others what JW's believe, I really have to chuckle....that is not even close to what we believe.....so who on earth told you that?

Salvation is a precious gift paid for by the blood of Christ, and open to all. It cannot be earned or bought. Yet James tells us that "faith without works is dead"....so is the Bible contradicting itself? What is "grace"? It seems to me that for some "grace" is a license to sin. That once you are saved, you cannot lose your salvation....but that is not true. Just as someone who was 'saved' from drowning can jump back into the water, so can someone who altered their sinful course to please God, relapse into that sin. This is what Peter described in 2 Peter 2:20-22. This shows how God feels about those ones who cannot do as he commands, and remain in a saved condition. God dictates acceptable conduct to us...we can't dictate to him.

Amazing love! How can it be,
That Thou, my God, shouldst die for me?
Read that again and tell me please how an immortal God can die? Or how an immortal God can be killed by mere mortals?
If you understand the mechanics of the ransom (redemption) you will understand that the redeemer did not have to be "God" to pay for Adam's sin....all he had to be was"sinless". God's law was "a life for a life"...like for like, which is what "atonement" means..."at-one-ment"...one for one.
This means that an immortal God cannot give his life for what a mere mortal did. Another mere mortal had to pay for that. The son of God could therefore not be Almighty God because the overpayment would have been ridiculous! Like using 75 billion cans of bug spray for one mosquito.
Jesus, as God's most trusted son is a servant of his God, who was in a position to carry out this rescue mission. (Acts 4:27)

I was brought up in the church, born again at a young age, and indoctrinated this truth as part of my religion, when I became a young man the truth of this was revealed in fulness to me by the Spirit, When He knocked me off that pedestal of pride that indoctrinated church goers raise themselves upon, it was then that I knew the fulness of His Love for me and how intricately the love of God is tied to the deity of Christ. There is no way I can repay that love of the creator dying for His creation.
I was brought up in the church too...but which church, and with what beliefs...take your pick. There is no such thing as "the church" after the apostolic age. Apostasy was foretold after the death of the apostles, which would lead "the church" that Jesus and his apostles began, completely astray. History attests that this is exactly what happened. "The church" behaved in a most unchristian way and introduced all manner of foreign concepts that they wove into scripture, (2 Thessalonians 2:9-12).....like the trinity, immortality of the soul, and hellfire.....none of which originated from the teachings of Christ....all are adoptions from paganism.

It is important to note that the devil can do tricks with people's emotions, getting them to "feel" religious, rather that to use knowledge of the scriptures to discern the truth. The Bible contains all that we need to know......but unless we are taught the truth we will never find it on our own. If we could, that would render the preaching work commanded by Jesus, completely unnecessary. (Matthew 24:14; Matthew 28:19-20)
Who our teachers are.....matters, since there is only one truth...the rest are counterfeits, planted by the devil.
How can we tell? The fact is, it is God who chooses us, rather than us choosing him. He will "draw" right hearted individuals to his truth, and they will all become part of one global brotherhood who all believe and preach the same truth. (John 6:44; 65; 1 Corinthians 1:10)

When Jesus gave us his account of how it will be at the judgment, we can see that "many" are going to be utterly rejected, despite the fact that they assumed that they were 'Christians' in good standing. (Matthew 7:21-23) They will offer their excuses to their "Lord" but he isn't going to buy any of it. That is why "few" are on the cramped road to life. (Matthew 7:13-14) We are all on judgment.
 

BARNEY BRIGHT

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Jesus is God.

Christ, the Father, and Spirit are three different persons. One, two, three. Christ doesn’t pray to Himself, He prays to the Father- another person.

Together they are one God. You can’t follow the Son without also following the Father- they are going to tell you the exact same thing. You can’t listen to the Spirit and without also listening to the Son. Glory for the Father is also glory for the Spirit. Etc.

Versus actual polytheism where you can do stuff like follow Zeus and anger Athena.
The scriptures don't say there are three different persons in some Godhead. You can't even find the concept of some trinity doctrine in the scriptures.
 
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