"The word was a god"?

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teamventure

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The reason I am being so stern on here is because, trying to make people believe that Jesus is not God is an attempt to drag them to hell.
Not me, I believe Jesus is God in the flesh.
 

MatthewG

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Please help me to understand what is meant here. If Jesus was "a god" then He could be THE God or a false god. What else could this mean? How can Jesus be "a god"?

Hello Jack,

Jesus was the Word (Logos of God), the Word was the Word before it became Jesus through the holy spirit overshadowing Mary in which she became pregnant. Now the Word was born in the flesh - > named Jesus. But inside of him was the (Word of God), and the Father who sent Jesus was with him through out his life.

Today one believes in Jesus, the Holy Spirit of God is given from the Father, and also we have the Spirit of Christ that lives with-in us when we die with Christ, buried with Christ, and raised to new life in Christ.

It is very complex, my recommendation is to ask God and seek wisdom from Him, and do not doubt.
 

teamventure

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So you deny the scripture?:

“Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God” (1 John 5:1)

The word of God is my rule in all matters of faith.

Your opinion on the matter means nothing.

“…yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings” (Romans 3:4)

I’m justified in my sayings by scripture.

No, your rebuttals deny scripture.
 
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BARNEY BRIGHT

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You are trying to come up with an explaining away of the obvious context of scripture that says Jesus is God. It has been stated plainly in scripture so that people like you can't say you had an excuse on judgement day.

No, what I said was Scripture.The scriptures are very clear that Jesus is the Only Begotten Son of God. It's those that deny that it was the Only Begotten Son of God that the True God sent to mankind who will not be saved.
 

1stCenturyLady

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Please help me to understand what is meant here. If Jesus was "a god" then He could be THE God or a false god. What else could this mean? How can Jesus be "a god"?

Where did you get "a" god. There is no "a" in John 1:1. He IS God, just as the Father and Spirit is God. They are one God. "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Just like I am one human being, I still have three parts to me that coexist together and are inseparable. My body, my mind, and my emotions/heart. My mind is my spirit, and my emotions/conscience is my heart or soul. My mind and heart are with my body. Get it? We are one. I am a triune being. Without a mind or heart my body would be dead.
 
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Aunty Jane

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It doesn't matter what you call it, APAK. I call your beliefs lies of the devil and you call mine lies of the devil. That's pretty standard for those who having opposing beliefs. What matters is what the truth is. We'll find that out shortly, won't we. And I'll stand and die on that hill. If it's in vain, well, I guess that's too bad for me isn't it. Whatever lies you may name it, I will worship Jesus the Christ the only Living God. For me to live is Christ and to die is gain. And that will happen very, very soon. You can feel sorry for me if you wish to, that is your right; it is nice to see that some people still have sympathy for others.
What I find sad is the fact that very sincere people who love God and his Christ can stand on opposite sides of this very important doctrine....equally certain that what they believe is correct.

It is of vital importance to know and understand where this idea that “Jesus is God”, came from, since it was never part of Jewish teaching or scripture....in fact the Shema (Deuteronomy 6:4) which was recited regularly by the Jews, reinforced the idea of Yahweh being one entity.....their one God.
Multiplicities of gods was a pagan concept, and when Israel fell to worshipping these foreign deities, their God punished them most severely. Triads were nothing new in paganism. (Google pagan trinities)

If an apostasy was foretold by Jesus and his apostles to occur after their death, then why do people not understand that it happened just as it was predicted? (Acts 20:30; 2 Peter 2:1-3; 1 Timothy 4:1-3; Hebrews 6:4-6) Men came in and gradually altered what Jesus taught. They took the scriptures away from the common people and fed them lies for centuries. These lies are what form the foundation of modern “Christianity”...which does not resemble anything that Christ and his apostles taught in any way. But it’s the only “Christianity” they have ever known.

The Bible says that in “the time of the end” God would “cleanse, whiten and refine” his worship, which would mean exposing the lies and purging it of the spiritual impurities that had sullied it for centuries. Only those who accepted the ‘cleansing and refining’ as a result of the “abundance of knowledge” that would be given at this time, would be granted “insight and understanding” of the truth.....those who wanted to stick with the comfortable lies would understand nothing.

This was prophesied by Daniel 500 years before Jesus was even born. (Daniel 12:4, 9-10) He was told to “seal up the book until “the time of the end” when all would be exposed.....and here we are. Who is listening to the inconvenient truth and who have swallowed the old lies.....that is what we all need to decide....but is it really us who will get to decide who is worthy of an invitation to come into God’s family of worshippers? (John 6:44, 65) There is only one united spiritual family who preach and teach the truth in all the world.....so it cannot be a multitude of fractured sects who all disagree. (1 Corinthians 1:10)
 

RedFan

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Greek Kingdom Interlinear....
9 μηδὲ Neither ἐκπειράζωμεν may we be testing out τὸν the κύριον, Lord, καθώς according as τινες some αὐτῶν of them ἐπείρασαν, tested, καὶ and ὑπὸ by τῶν the ὄφεων serpents ἀπώλλυντο. they were destroying selves.”

Like I said some translate “the Lord” and others use “kyrios”.

We are talking past each other. I don't doubt that kyrios (Lord) is regularly used a stand in for both the Hebrew tetragrammaton and also used as a synonym for Christ. And if kyrios had been used by Paul in 1 Cor. 10:9, translating it as "Jehovah" instead of "Christ" would be perfectly defensible. But Paul used "Christos." And there is no way to translate christos as "Jehovah" because -- unlike kyrios -- christos is NEVER used to mean "Jehovah."

Could christos refer to a king, a prophet, Moses? Sure; they could all be anointed ones. But "Jehovah?" Never. Not once in the OT or the NT. The NWT botched this one.

Let's move on.
 

Aunty Jane

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Where did you get "a" god. There is no "a" in John 1:1. He IS God, just as the Father and Spirit is God. They are one. "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Just like I am one human being, I still have three parts to me that coexist together and are inseparable. My body, my mind, and my emotions/heart. My mind is my spirit, and my emotions/conscience is my heart or soul. My mind and heart are with my body. Get it? We are one. I am a triune being. Without a mind or heart my body would be dead.
Can you be in three separate physical places at the same time, and talk to your other selves as if they are separate from yourself? Can one part of you know things that the other parts do not?

How can you have “God the Father”, “God the Son” and “God the Holy spirit” and yet claim to worship one God? That is three “gods”. Only one of them is spoken about in the Bible. You will not find “God the Son” or “God the Holy Spirit” ever mentioned in a single verse of the Bible.
 
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teamventure

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Where did you get "a" god. There is no "a" in John 1:1. He IS God, just as the Father and Spirit is God. They are one God. "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Just like I am one human being, I still have three parts to me that coexist together and are inseparable. My body, my mind, and my emotions/heart. My mind is my spirit, and my emotions/conscience is my heart or soul. My mind and heart are with my body. Get it? We are one. I am a triune being. Without a mind or heart my body would be dead.

You said it 1stCenturyLady!
Also I like your avatar photo.
My dad had some raccoons for pets.
 

Aunty Jane

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We are talking past each other. I don't doubt that kyrios (Lord) is regularly used a stand in for both the Hebrew tetragrammaton and also used as a synonym for Christ. And if kyrios had been used by Paul in 1 Cor. 10:9, translating it as "Jehovah" instead of "Christ" would be perfectly defensible. But Paul used "Christos." And there is no way to translate christos as "Jehovah" because -- unlike kyrios -- christos is NEVER used to mean "Jehovah."

Could christos refer to a king, a prophet, Moses? Sure; they could all be anointed ones. But "Jehovah?" Never. Not once in the OT or the NT. The NWT botched this one.

Let's move on.
OK, but lets clarify this one point...
Was Paul quoting Deuteronomy 6:16 when he spoke the words recorded in 1 Corinthians 10:9?
Deuteronomy 6:16...
“You shall not put the Lord your God to the test, as you tested Him at Massah. (NASB)
Complete Tanakh....
"You shall not try the Lord, your God, as you tried Him in Massah. טזלֹ֣א תְנַסּ֔וּ אֶת־יְהֹוָ֖ה אֱלֹֽהֵיכֶ֑ם כַּֽאֲשֶׁ֥ר נִסִּיתֶ֖ם בַּמַּסָּֽה:"
Who was "the Lord your God" to the Jews? Yahweh is there in the Hebrew text....right?

1 Corinthians 10:9....
"Nor are we to put the Lord to the test, as some of them did, and were killed by the snakes."

Strongs cites "kyrios" as meaning.....
"κύριος kýrios, koo'-ree-os; from κῦρος kŷros (supremacy); supreme in authority, i.e. (as noun) controller; by implication, Master (as a respectful title):—God, Lord, master, Sir."
Relying then on the definition of the word "god" (theos) we can see that calling someone a "god" in some cases does not mean a deity, but can mean someone who has attained divine authority, such as those mentioned by Jesus in John 10:34-36, where Jesus speaks of human judges in Israel being called "gods" by his own Father, whereas he identified himself simply as "the son of God".

So who led Paul to believe that Jesus was Yahweh?
How does he write at 1 Corinthians 8:5-6, speaking for himself and the other apostles...
"For even if there are so-called gods whether in heaven or on earth, as indeed there are many gods and many lords, 6 yet for us there is only one God, the Father, from whom are all things, and we exist for Him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we exist through Him." (NASB)

Do you see the problem here? Where did Paul ever say that Jesus was his God? If he and the other apostles agreed that Yahweh (the Father) was their God, then obviously something is wrong with the translation....or the interpretation of the translation you are suggesting....?
 

teamventure

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OK, but lets clarify this one point...
Was Paul quoting Deuteronomy 6:16 when he spoke the words recorded in 1 Corinthians 10:9?
Deuteronomy 6:16...
“You shall not put the Lord your God to the test, as you tested Him at Massah. (NASB)
Complete Tanakh....
"You shall not try the Lord, your God, as you tried Him in Massah. טזלֹ֣א תְנַסּ֔וּ אֶת־יְהֹוָ֖ה אֱלֹֽהֵיכֶ֑ם כַּֽאֲשֶׁ֥ר נִסִּיתֶ֖ם בַּמַּסָּֽה:"
Who was "the Lord your God" to the Jews? Yahweh is there in the Hebrew text....right?

1 Corinthians 10:9....
"Nor are we to put the Lord to the test, as some of them did, and were killed by the snakes."

Strongs cites "kyrios" as meaning.....
"κύριος kýrios, koo'-ree-os; from κῦρος kŷros (supremacy); supreme in authority, i.e. (as noun) controller; by implication, Master (as a respectful title):—God, Lord, master, Sir."
Relying then on the definition of the word "god" (theos) we can see that calling someone a "god" in some cases does not mean a deity, but can mean someone who has attained divine authority, such as those mentioned by Jesus in John 10:34-36, where Jesus speaks of human judges in Israel being called "gods" by his own Father, whereas he identified himself simply as "the son of God".

So who led Paul to believe that Jesus was Yahweh?
How does he write at 1 Corinthians 8:5-6, speaking for himself and the other apostles...
"For even if there are so-called gods whether in heaven or on earth, as indeed there are many gods and many lords, 6 yet for us there is only one God, the Father, from whom are all things, and we exist for Him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we exist through Him." (NASB)

Do you see the problem here? Where did Paul ever say that Jesus was his God? If he and the other apostles agreed that Yahweh (the Father) was their God, then obviously something is wrong with the translation....or the interpretation of the translation you are suggesting....?

Truth stares you in the face and you call it a mis-translation
 
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Aunty Jane

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So believing that Jesus is God sends people to hell? I guess you are preaching the gospel backwards.
If you believe in Christendom's "hell" then you have apparently swallowed all the other lies as well. There is no such place as "hell".
There is "hades"...."gehenna"...and the "lake of fire"....none of them involve beings who are alive in any way.

What makes you think that a loving God could torture living beings forever with no way to repent? That is not the God I worship. He has always been about love and forgiveness.......He is the one who gave his people only two options...."life or death"...never did he mention "heaven and hell" as opposite destinations.
 

1stCenturyLady

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Can you be in three separate physical places at the same time, and talk to your other selves as if they are separate from yourself? Can one part of you know things that the other parts do not?

How can you have “God the Father”, “God the Son” and “God the Holy spirit” and yet claim to worship one God? That is three “gods”. Only one of them is spoken about in the Bible. You will not find “God the Son” or “God the Holy Spirit” ever mentioned in a single verse of the Bible.

Wow, it looks like what I said went clear over your understanding.
 
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Aunty Jane

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Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
1 John 2:22 KJV
Oh a KJV team member....? No wonder thou dost not understandeth scripture.
palm


Do you do study and research? Or do you just swallow the party line that has been fed to Christendom's disunited members for centuries without questioning anything? Do you know why they cannot agree?

Did it ever occur to you that the KJV is a translation...it was not actually written by God, but by men who were mostly trinitarians, and the bias in translation is so obvious when you know what you're looking at...hidden in plain sight. (2 Corinthians 4:3-4)

I question everything....because I was raised in Christendom.....I once believed what you believe, but it never sat well with me...so researched it all thoroughly and I know what I believe now, and why I believe it.

First of all we do NOT "deny that Jesus is the Christ". Who said that we did? We "deny that Jesus is God" because he never once said he was. Being the "Christ" doesn't make him God. It was his God who "anointed" him because that is what "Christ" means.
God did not anoint himself. He did not pray to himself, and he did not worship himself. If Jesus was God, he did all those things.

We believe that he is the "son of God" because that is what he called himself.....its really that simple. Ask Jesus who he is....
 

Scott Downey

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Where did you get "a" god. There is no "a" in John 1:1. He IS God, just as the Father and Spirit is God. They are one God. "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Just like I am one human being, I still have three parts to me that coexist together and are inseparable. My body, my mind, and my emotions/heart. My mind is my spirit, and my emotions/conscience is my heart or soul. My mind and heart are with my body. Get it? We are one. I am a triune being. Without a mind or heart my body would be dead.
Jehovahs witness version says 'a god'

Jehovah’s Witnesses’ Bible Reveals that Jesus IS God.


The Word was God vs. A God
The Jehovah Witnesses’ (New World) Translation says, “…and the Word was a god.” This is because they say that ‘a’ may be added since “Θεός” (God) doesn’t have an article. But what their “Greek Scholars” must have forgotten from their advanced Greek class is that “καὶ Θεός” is a “predicate nominative”. In other words, it doesn’t take an article because it’s not the subject – the subject is “The Word” (ὁ λόγος).


Another reason why “Θεός” does not have an article is because “God” is a proper name, and proper names don’t take articles.(why θεόν takes an article? I’m not completely sure, but I’m guessing because it’s using God’s name as a title, not His direct name. Only in the latter part of the verse is it used as His actual name (and title). But again, the literal translation could put a “the” here, and my point would remain the same).
 

Aunty Jane

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Wow, it looks like what I said went clear over your understanding.
Or maybe what I said wasn't what you wanted to hear.....?
Yahweh is "one"...not three. (Deuteronomy 6:4)
Did Jesus worship an equal part of himself? Show us please where Jesus ever said that he was God, or that he was his Father's equal in any way.

Even in heaven Jesus still calls his Father "my God" (Revelation 3:12) Care to explain that?