The Wrath of the Lord

[keras]

I trust people can see why I don't try to reply to # 219 1 Timothy 1:5-7

Re what happens when Jesus Returns, I suggest reading Zechariah 14:3-11, Luke 21:27-28, Revelation 19:5-9
Verses 1-2 tells of the attack and conquest of new Israel by the Anti-Christ, 3.5 years before the Return and then 12-15 tell of the result of Armageddon.

 

[Barrd]

You guys do realize that, while all this speculation is interesting, it isn't going to matter a bit what conclusions you come to.
I guarantee you, God is going to do things His way, regardless.
Meantime, arguing over who is right and who is wrong is pretty pointless.

Just sayin'...

 

[ATP]

You guys do realize that, while all this speculation is interesting, it isn't going to matter a bit what conclusions you come to.
I guarantee you, God is going to do things His way, regardless.
Meantime, arguing over who is right and who is wrong is pretty pointless.

Just sayin'...

The same way you argue over OSAS...

 

[keras]

You guys do realize that, while all this speculation is interesting, it isn't going to matter a bit what conclusions you come to.
I guarantee you, God is going to do things His way, regardless.
Meantime, arguing over who is right and who is wrong is pretty pointless.

God has told us what His plans are. Revelation 1:1
Notice that between Marcus and I, there isn't an argument, I point out the Prophetic Word and use modern knowledge to explain how the Lord will carry out His Day of wrath. Marcus uses personal denigration and his shuffling of the Sixth Seal to vilify me and to promote his version of the end times.

It is far from pointless to study the prophesies, they comprise a large portion of scripture. It WILL matter when it all unfolds and at the end the Lord may ask: Why did you not read carefully and understand what I gave the prophets to write for you?

 

[keras]

Another unchristian rant from Marcus, that does nothing to further our understanding.

Just to clarify: Matthew 24:21-22 is talking about a 'time of great distress', that will be cut short for the sake of God's chosen people.
Assuming that this 'time of distress' is the Great Trib, is wrong, because Jesus goes on to warn of false Messiahs and tells us He will come 'as a lightning flash'. Many will die from it. Isaiah 66:15-16 This isn't the Return in glory, as that is described from v30.
When He sends His lightning flash, Psalms 11:4-6, Malachi 4:1, Luke 12:49, a massive CME sunstrike, He will 'cut it short', by increasing its speed and reducing the time of its effect.

 

[Barrd]

The same way you argue over OSAS...

No, ATP...
Being mistaken about what God may or may not do during the end times will not cost anyone his or her salvation. God has not revealed His plans. Even Jesus did not know when the end would come.
But whether or not a person can sin so as to lose his salvation....this is a much deeper issue. Too many people who have bought into the whole OSAS thing use it to justify themselves for whatever sin they are involved in. They truly believe that they can sin, and God will not lay it to their charge, because they think that, having said a "sinner's prayer", they are now "saved" and cannot lose that salvation, no matter what they do.
For this reason it is a dangerous doctrine.
Having said that, I am not about to help you to derail this thread, which is about end times prophecy....stick to the topic, ATP, and leave your resentment toward me out of it.

 

[keras]

Luke 17:29-30 On the day that Sodom was destroyed, fire and sulphur rained upon them and killed them all. It will be like that again when the Son of Man is revealed. Amos 4:11-12
Matthew 24:37-42 As it was in the days of Noah, so will it be when the Son of Man comes. In the days before the flood, they ate, drank and married until the day that Noah entered the ark, they knew nothing until the flood came and swept them all away. That is how it will be when the Son of Man comes.
Genesis 9:11-14 My covenant to never again destroy all living creatures by a flood is confirmed by the sign of the rainbow.
Deuteronomy 32:22 & 34-35 I have sealed in My storehouse, ready for the Day of punishment and vengeance, a fire that will be set ablaze by My anger. It will envelope the world in flames, burning to the depths of the earth. Jeremiah 50:25
Psalm 110:1-6....I shall make Your enemies Your footstool....In glorious majesty, You judge the nations, shattering the wicked throughout the world.

Isaiah 24:18-23 On that Day, the Lord will punish in heaven the host of heaven and on earth the leaders of the nations are caught and punished. The sun and moon will be darkened, for the glory of the Lord will be in Jerusalem and is revealed to the elders of His people.
2 Peter 3:5-7 & 10....the world before Noah was destroyed by a great flood. Now, by God’s Word the present heavens and earth are reserved for burning, kept for the Day of judgement when the godless will be destroyed. That Day will come unexpectedly, the sky will dissipate with a great noise and the earth will be enveloped in flames. All its inhabitants will be judged.
Isaiah 66:1-6 My people are oppressed and afflicted and evil people displease Me, they say: Let the Lord come, we do not believe in Him. Therefore, the noise you can hear is the Lord dealing retribution to His foes.
Matthew 24:40-44 There will be two men in a field, one will be taken the other left, two women at the mill, one will be taken, the other left. Keep awake, therefore for the Lord will come unexpectedly.
Isaiah 63:1-6 The Lord comes from the godless nations, in His power and majesty, He tramples them in His fury, their blood spills out and splashes His garments. At the Return He comes in blood splashed garments.
2 Thessalonians 1:6-10...the Day the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven in blazing fire...... He will reveal His glory among all believers. Revelation 14:1

What we can understand from the above Bible passages, is that the Day of the Lord, when the Son of Man takes action, is not Jesus’ Return as the Word of God, for the Millennium reign. At the Return: ‘all will see Him’, not as in this Lord’s Day of vengeance and wrath, where He is not seen, Psalms 18:11, Luke 3:17, then ‘His glory is revealed to all believers’. 2 Thess. 1:10
God promised to ‘never again flood the earth’, but He has ‘stored up a fire that will envelope the earth in flames’, a worldwide judgement/punishment, so vividly described by all the prophets.
This terrible fire and devastation will come upon the world unexpectedly, ‘While they are saying: All is peaceful, all secure, then destruction is upon them’. 1 Thess. 5:3 Huge numbers will be killed by the fire, earthquakes and the resulting famines afterward. Jeremiah 9:22, Isaiah 34:1-8, Ezekiel 30:2-5
The Lord is not seen on that Day, but His people are saved and protected, [not raptured] Isaiah 30:26, Isaiah 43:2
Then, as in Ezekiel 20:33-38...by My outpoured wrath, [The Day of wrath] I shall bring you out of the nations and gather you back to Israel. The Lord is: ‘Waiting to show you His favour’, and to bless His people as they fulfill the promises to the Patriarchs and their destiny: ‘to be a light to the nations’. Isaiah 42:6, Isaiah 62:1-5

 

[Marcus O'Reillius]

No you're still wrong.

Jesus said on the Day of the Lord He would gather the Elect.

Mt 24:29“Immediately after the distress of those days “ ‘the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from the sky, and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.’ 30 “Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. And then all the peoples of the earthfn will mourn when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory. 31 And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.

Jesus gives us the sequence of events as follows:
1. The Great Tribulation cut short by the sign of the Day of the Lord: the sun/moon/star event.
2. Then the sign of the Son of Man, which I interpret as being the scrolling of the sky as per Rev 6.
3. Then the people all see Him, as is also said in Revelation.
4. He sounds the Trumpet (the Last Trumpet) and Angels gather the Elect from all over the earth.

The ingathering of the Elect who remain and are left are part of the Great Multitude in Heaven as per Revelation chapter 7.

Only after the Bride of Christ is safely in the barn of Heaven, is the Wrath of God, which we are not meant to have to endure, is unleashed also on the Day of the Lord.

Paul said the same, and that we should encourage each other.
You however, discourage and I will not let your own thinking stand unopposed.

 

[keras]

Because what I present from the Prophetic Word doesn't fit what Marcus believes, he bluntly states I'm wrong.

The end time sequence according to Marcus seems to start with the Great Tribulation.
This terrible time, the 3.5 year period just prior to the Return of Jesus, is triggered by the placing of an abomination of desecration into the Temple.
Where is this Temple and who builds it?
Please explain how this 'adversary' of 2 Thess 2:4 comes to power and what he is the leader of.
What scripture says the Bride of Christ goes to heaven?

Anyone reading #227, will see the encouragement I present in the last 2 sentences.

 

[Marcus O'Reillius]

Pro 26:4 Do not answer a fool according to his folly,
Or you will also be like him.
5 Answer a fool as his folly deserves,
That he not be wise in his own eyes.

The Day of the Lord is when we will be taken up.

2Th 2:1 Now we request you, brethren, with regard to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, 2 that you not be quickly shaken from your composure or be disturbed either by a spirit or a message or a letter as if from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come. 3 Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed,

In verse 1, Paul links two things together in the order they happen as Jesus taught in the Olivet Discourse: He comes, and we are gathered to Him.
In verse 2, Paul also links these two events to the Day of the Lord.
In verse 3, Paul sets, as Jesus taught in the Olivet Discourse as well, that before the Day of the Lord comes, there is apostasy and the man of lawlessness is revealed.

If Paul had spoken more plainly, he could have started the sequence of events with verse 3, and then transitioned to the following events of verse 1, but in this case, he wanted to emphasize that the Day of the Lord to the Thessalonians.

Jesus started the detailed, parallel portion of the Olivet Discourse as well in Mt 24:15 with the "abomination(s) desolation" - this precedes the Great Tribulation.
And if anyone says the Great Tribulation is 3.5 years long, they are a fool. Jesus said it is cut short.

In Revelation 13:14-15, Jesus shows to John the true nature of the "abomination(s) desolation" as a talking image of the anti-Christ. And immediately with this revealing - come two laws that make the Great Tribulation so terrible for the Elect: worship or die, and take the mark of the beast or don't buy or sell anything (food, energy, your labor for wages, etc.) We are explicitly told not do either or risk losing our salvation! (So much for OSAS.)

Now going back to Paul, he also taught this in speaking of the Second Coming of Christ Jesus:

1Th 4:15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.

1. Notice in verse 15, that Paul qualifies those who are alive when Jesus comes as those who are alive and remain... that is a very interesting statement by itself, but it is wholly understandable when you combine what Jesus said in the Olivet Discourse, Mt 24:22 that the Elect manage to survive the Great Tribulation only because it is cut short.

2. In verse 16, Paul also paints a picture reminiscent of the Olivet Discourse's "coming on the clouds of the sky" (Mt 24:30) for Jesus descending from Heaven. Now some will say: 'There are no clouds there!' but that is foolishness as well, because in the following verse 17, we are in very same clouds when we meet Jesus.

3. An interesting facet of verse 17 is "with them" which goes back to verse 15 for those who have "fallen asleep", i.e., passed away preceding the Day of the Lord. If they are not bodily there, where may they be seen? In 1Th 3:13 we can see that when Jesus comes to harvest the earth, that He comes with those from Paradise He has resurrected bodily into new immortal and imperishable bodies.

4. And the best part? We can take comfort that this will come to pass!

No, we are not meant to suffer God's Wrath. Paul said so as well: 1Th 1:10 Jesus, who rescues us from the wrath to come.

This matches up exactly with the sixth Seal Great Multitude coming out of the Great Tribulation (which is shortened) before the first Trumpet of God's Wrath (which supplies the fire and blood of God's Wrath on the Day of the Lord as per the Old Testament as is told to natural born Israel).

So we are to go Heaven as Jesus taught in Matthew 13 with the parable of the wheat and tares, and it is revealed in Revelation.
And if anyone teaches otherwise, they are no teacher in accordance with the Word of God.
And you and I can take comfort in that.

 

[Retrobyter]

Shalom, Marcus.

Don't believe everything you think.
The truth is not determined by democratic vote. [edited]


A foolish notion. Jesus said the Great Tribulation will be cut short. Keras says not only does it go the full length of the rest of the one 'seven', it's lengthened by another 30 days.


Jesus says no one knows when the Day of the Lord will come: only the Father. Father Keras says he knows when Jesus comes, and never mind his idle speculation on blood moons that have failed and will fail again.

Just one point for now: Yeshua` didn’t say “the Great Tribulation will be cut short.” He said,

Matthew 24:22
22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
KJV

He was not talking about the TIME PERIOD of 3.5 years or 7 years or ...; He was talking about the number of DAYS of tribulation WITHIN the time period! The qualifier, “there should no flesh be saved,” suggests that if the days were relenting throughout the period, they would be the destruction of the elect. He was telling us that there would be temporary reprieves throughout the period.

 

[Marcus O'Reillius]

The relevant flesh that needs to be saved are those who are saved.

 

[Marcus O'Reillius]

The "reprieve" is our salvation from the hands of the evil one.

 

[Marcus O'Reillius]

The Great Tribulation is "shortened" and in the Greek, Matthew uses an agricultural term for the docking of an animal's tail, which allows us to say that the Great Tribulation is abruptly and unexpectedly cut short when the Day of the Lord arrives.

How long is the Great Tribulation? No one knows because only God the Father knows when it will end. We might speculate as to weeks or a few months. This is because you can't escape the knowledge of the evil one when he is armed with the power of the computer and the internet - so you can't survive long off the grid when you're being hunted down in a modern country.

 

[Marcus O'Reillius]

Just one point for now: Yeshua` didn’t say “the Great Tribulation will be cut short.” He said,

Matthew 24:22
22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
KJV

Bogus criticism by the way... "those days" directly reference the previous days of the Great Tribulation.

 

[brakelite]

There are many beliefs regarding the end-times that are subject to heated debate, and most of them are based on the flimsiest of evidence. Despite that flimsy evidence, and in some cases complete ignoring of powerful contrary evidence, we continue to debate and argue as if we are infallible and bullet-proof.
Let me give just one example of where flimsy evidence has superseded powerful contrary evidence to the point where acceptance of it has blinded the majority to where in prophetic history we actually stand. Of course, I am not infallible either, so if you have a rebuttal, then fine, but you will need I think a very powerful argument, not tissue paper.

2 Thess.2:3 ¶ Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

So here is a very clear pointer as to the identification of the Antichrist...a major falling away from the faith immediately preceding the appearance of this "man of sin", Paul's use of the word 'revealed', suggesting even that the falling away actually being the birth of the Antichrist power, that the continuation of the true faith inhibited the appearance of the man of sin.
So, my challenge and/or question is...please give me a good sound explanation why the apostasy that the Christian church experienced in the 3rd to 6th centuries and resulted in what we witness today in the deception binding a fifth of the world's population, doesn't answer to the prophecy?

 

[keras]

Marcus said:
So we are to go Heaven as Jesus taught in Matthew 13 with the parable of the wheat and tares, and it is revealed in Revelation.
And if anyone teaches otherwise, they are no teacher in accordance with the Word of God.
And you and I can take comfort in that. Quote

I take note that you didn't attempt to answer any of my questions in #229 Too difficult?

Marcus says the 'wheat' of Matthew 13:24-30, goes to heaven. Heaven isn't mentioned anywhere there. You made that up.
The word translated 'barn' in verse 30, is 'apotheken', the exact trans is 'the place of Me'. Right now Jesus' place is heaven, but He is soon to Return to earth and there His people will be with Him always.
Proved by the Words of Jesus in John 3:13 No one goes to heaven except the One who came from heaven. And John 17:15 I do not pray that You take them out of the world.....
What we Christians can take comfort from is the Lord's promise ​to protect His own during His Day of wrath. Isaiah 43:2

Brakelite, I see that you think Mahammad could be the Anti-Christ. He was a type as 1 John 2:18-23 says. The final and greatest AC is yet to come, Daniel 7:23-26
The 'falling away from the faith' that Islam caused was forcible conversion or death to all Christians. [or dhimmi status, if they were lucky]

 

[Marcus O'Reillius]

I take note that you didn't attempt to answer any of my questions in #229 Too difficult?

Pro 26:4 Do not answer a fool according to his folly,
Or you will also be like him.
5 Answer a fool as his folly deserves,
That he not be wise in his own eyes.

I take a literal approach to the Bible which is futuristic, and includes a Sabbath Millennial, so that "all of Israel" will be saved too.
However, the Bible is not written in plain words: analogies are used as well as parables. They speak of a literal event while not being literal themselves.
Interpretation is thus required, and that takes understanding, study, and wisdom.

I think it folly and foolish to take an ultra-literal word-test to prophecy however.
I also think it folly and foolish to use a one-verse approach; in such a manner many can misconstrue the future using only a part of prophecy.

Now let's see, a foolish man says "heaven" is not in the parable of the wheat and tares.
Should I come back and just say it is? No, this then elevates the fool and lowers myself.
Let's look at what Jesus said in explaining this portion of the Gospel:
"...but gather the wheat into my barn."

1. First of all, it involves "gathering". This verb, synagō, is one of many used to describe the "Rapture". It is the same verb used in Mt 24:31 to describe the gathering of the Elect on the Day of the Lord. It is quite different than the verb used for the "collection" of the tares: syllego.

There is no one-word ultra-literal test of verbiage which earmarks rapture verses. Such a criticism marks the complainant as unschooled in Bible interpretation. Saying "heaven isn't mentioned" is someone trying to spoil the Gospel message.

2. The "wheat" has a figurative overtone to the Harvest of Revelation 14. Indeed, the agricultural aspect of the Rapture is repleted throughout prophecy. "Wheat" is used for the Elect. Saying the Elect aren't mentioned is also an ultra-literal false test and again demonstrates a lack of wisdom by the critic. This figurative picture of a literal event provides a deeper meaning to the action being foretold which gives us a look at the depth of God's Plan. Another figurative picture of the Rapture can be seen in the wedding analogies used. As another example, it provides us with the personal relationship Jesus has with His Church and the jealous, protective love that is expressed quite vividly on the Day of the Lord.

Like the Elect are the product of the Harvest, the 144,000 are the "firstfruits" of the Harvest, being gathered first. This is also an agricultural practice which modern man is now quite unfamiliar with as to its meaning and it is woven into God's Plan of Salvation having been incorporated into the Festivals - or "appointed times" (with God) that the Jews practiced. Indeed, you can make a case for a literal fulfillment of the Spring Festival presentation of the presentation of the Firstfruits with Jesus' appearance with "men wondered at" in Zechariah 3:1-8 in Heaven before the Father shortly after meeting Mary in the garden after His Resurrection.

3. The "barn". First of all, it is his barn. Now the foolish ultra-literal test is that this is not Heaven, but all the critic displays when he makes such an ignorant statement pulling down the beauty of the Gospel is that he doesn't understand that a parable is a simple story which conveys a broader relationship. In this case, the master is not just a man, but God Himself, specifically in Mt 13:37: Jesus, the Son of Man. Thus, His Barn is where He resides. It is not out in the field, which is this earth (verse 38).

Where the "barn" is, is also pointed to in John 14:
2 In My Father's house are many dwelling places; if it were not so, I would have told you; for I go to prepare a place for you. 3 If I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself, that where I am, there you may be also.

Jesus is in Heaven now. He will return. He will return on the Day of the Lord. When He returns, the first thing He does is the Harvest / rescue / redemption. We will be in Heaven as Jesus promised. He is preparing a place for us in His Father's house right now.

Then He tramples out His Wrath on the wicked left behind, burning them in the field of this world. Do you know why we don't find verses for us describing God's Wrath in the NT with the Day of the Lord? We are not meant for it; it doesn't apply to us. We're literally gone when it hits.

But some will say the wicked are taken out of this world based on the further explanation of this parable. Do not mistake the "Kingdom" passage in Mt 13:41 for this world... God's Kingdom includes the hereafter, both Heaven and Hades - and Jesus has the key to both. The wicked are totally removed from existence when Hades is emptied and subsequent to their judgment, they are thrown into the Lake of Fire. That is when the tares are removed from God's Kingdom. Jesus references this as well in Mt 13:42. Thus looking at the wicked being removed on the Day of the Lord leads to error in building an eschatology which is in agreement with all of Scripture.

Now because one verse does not dictate an interpretation, another place the "wheat" can be seen in Heaven is in Revelation 7:
9 After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no one could count, from every nation and all tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed in white robes, and palm branches were in their hands;

This Great Multitude includes not only the raptured souls, but all those resurrected from their "slumber" in Paradise. They come from every source for mankind. They stand before the Throne and the Lamb. This is in Heaven as John is transported up in Rev 4:1 and it is in the same scene that he details in chapters 4 and 5.

Now an Elder, whom I think is one of the "men wondered at" from Zechariah 3:8 who follow Jesus in His train to Heaven so long ago (which makes them an Elder because of the time they have been there) also confirms the removal of the Great Multitude from the earth at the time of the Great Tribulation. This confirms the sequence of events Jesus laid out in the Olivet Discourse.
"These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation."

Remember from Mt 24:29-31 that the Day of the Lord abruptly shortens the Great Tribulation so that some of the Elect will be alive and remain.

So a multitude of witnesses place us in Heaven after the Rapture. Those who point to an earthly existence are bound by their own limited thinking. What will become of the earth after Jesus tramples out His Wrath is nothing you want to experience. In fact, at the end of the one 'seven' it is such a wasteland that God foretells of what is required to heal the land so the few surviving Remnant Jews and people from other nation can live in His Presence. There is no OT verse showing immortal beings living alongside mortal people. Our place is in Heaven. We will rule the earth, but like a King can rule from afar, we need not be present enmasse to do so.

 

[keras]

Marcus says: our place is in heaven. This is a very pretentious notion, because it means he has prejudged himself as being worthy of such a reward. Jesus is the Judge.
Secondly, nowhere does the Bible say anyone other than the 2 witnesses goes to heaven. And why should they, when our place, our destiny, our reward is earthly.

[SIZE=11pt]Ezekiel 11:17-20 [/SIZE]I shall gather My righteous people from among the nations and give the Land of Israel to them. I will give them a new spirit so that they will conform to My statutes and keep My Laws. They will be My people and I will be their God.
[SIZE=11pt]Although some of the House of Judah has returned to a portion of the Promised Land, they have not fulfilled God’s plans for His people. That is; to be a light to the nations, His people in the world, preaching the coming Kingdom of Jesus. The Jewish people are not destined to build the third Temple, that awaits the gathering of the Lord’s people. Zechariah 6:15 [/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]Many prophecies speak of the final judgement of Judah [Ezekiel 21:14..[/SIZE].swing the sword of slaughter three times... First: Babylon, second: Rome, third still to come. This is the result of Matthew 27:25 and the fulfilment of Luke 19:27, Jeremiah 17:1-4
[SIZE=11pt]Matthew 21:40-43 [/SIZE]The Owner of the vineyard will come and deal with the bad tenants, He will bring those criminals to justice. Jesus quoted: The stone that the builders [the Jews] rejected, has become the main corner stone. [Jesus] Therefore, I tell you, the Kingdom of God will be taken away from you [Judah] and given to a nation that bears the proper fruit. Amos 2:4-5, Jeremiah 13:19, Isaiah 3:8-9, Zephaniah 1:4-6, Psalm 118:22-24

[SIZE=11pt]We who have been brought up on New Testament precepts of “[/SIZE]love your neighbour” and peace and goodwill toward all, have some difficulty with verses such as;
[SIZE=11pt]Nahum 1:2 [/SIZE]The Lord is a God of vengeance, He will punish His enemies.
[SIZE=11pt]Deuteronomy 32:41-43 [/SIZE]When I set My hand to judgement, My sword will devour flesh, I will punish all those who hate Me and will cleanse My peoples land.
[SIZE=11pt]Luke 3:16-17 ..[/SIZE]He will baptize with the Holy spirit and with fire. His winnowing fork in His hand, He will gather the good grain into the store, but the chaff will burn forever. Isaiah 33:10-12
[SIZE=11pt]The Lord is the potter, it is His creation, His aim is to have a people on earth who freely choose to love and serve Him. Isaiah 29:16, Romans 9:22-23[/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt]Over seventy prophecies tell of a forthcoming judgement of fire and the only literal explanation for Isaiah 30:26, Isaiah 13:13, Malachi 4:1, is a coronal mass ejection – a sunstrike that will particularly affect the Middle East. It will be a seemingly natural event that maintains His hiddenness to the world, but it will clear and cleanse all of that area promised to Abraham and His people will know that it is the Lord who helps and guides them. Ezekiel 34:27-30, Isaiah 49:8-12, Psalms 107[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]Zechariah 10:7-12 [/SIZE]The Ephraimites, [the leaders of God’s people. Genesis 48:19] will be as warriors rejoicing in their God. I will whistle to call them in, for I will deliver them from among the nations where I dispersed them. they will return to their own Land, as many people as there was before. Those godless peoples will be brought low, but Israel’s strength will be in their God, they will march proudly in His name. [SIZE=11pt]Ref: REB, verses abridged[/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt]All the Lord’s people, those who believe in Him and keep His Commandments, will enter the new country of Beulah [Isaiah 62:4] after this terrible worldwide judgement of fire. Revelation 7:9 They will join up with the Jewish remnant that will survive in Jerusalem. Zechariah 13:8-9, Isaiah 4:3 Those new Israelites will receive the great blessings as promised to the Lord’s people and will live in the Land in peace and security until the time of the Anti Christ. For 3½ years, they will go and live in a place of safety, Revelation 12:14, referred to as Bozrah; [Hebrew = glad tidings] the sheepfold, then to go back at the Return of Jesus for His Millennial reign. [/SIZE] Matthew 24:31
​

 

[Marcus O'Reillius]

"This means that and that means this," - the cry of the foolish pied piper of Bible prophecy.

I think it a serious offense to make the Bible say what you want it to say, and unfortunately too many do that in eschatology.

Let's look at what one pied piper says: CME! He says a 'coronal mass ejection' from the sun is going to burn the earth on the Day of the Lord. His verse?
Isaiah 30:26a The light of the moon will be as the light of the sun, and the light of the sun will be seven times brighter, like the light of seven days,

But, does is this indeed the mechanism that God uses to infuse the Day of the Lord with fire? NO! Let's finish the verse:
Isaiah 30:26b on the day the LORD binds up the fracture of His people and heals the bruise He has inflicted.

Now a little context for the latest mish-mash of misappropriated verses misapplying their application so as to make the Bible say what he wants it to say.

Ezekiel 11:17-20 -- Expositor's Commentary: The extended vision of 8:1- 11:24 continues. As Ezekiel watched God's glory move to the east gate of the temple complex, the Spirit brought him to that gate. Here God showed Ezekiel more of the perversion of the nation's leadership. God showed that it was the remnant he had deported that he cared for; and he showed his care by promising to regather the exiles to the Promised Land (vv. 16- 20). This is the first mention of a future restoration in Ezekiel. The prophets held out restoration as a continual hope to the righteous. On the basis of the Mosaic covenant, judgment was all the prophets could offer Judah for her sins.
Ezekiel 11:17-20 is not meant for the Church. The pied piper has misapplied this verse to us.

Likewise, Matthew 21:30-43 has nothing to do with Amos 2:4-5 The first is the rejection of Jesus, the second because they did not uphold the Law.

• Expositor's Bible Commentary on Mt 21:40-43 -- "This is the Messiah:come, let us kill him"; yet, in the light of the Scriptures, their rejection of him was no less culpable than if it had been that. Therefore, though all the parable's details may not be pressed, rejection of the son (v. 39) by the leaders is the final straw that brings divine wrath on them.
• Expositor's Bible Commentary on Amos 2:4-5 -- Having pronounced judgment on various pagan nations, Amos next turned to Judah. God plays no favorites and cannot condone the sins of his people. While both Israel and Judah had a common religious heritage, the cleavage of the two kingdoms after the death of Solomon left wounds that never healed. Deep- rooted antipathies existed between the two kingdoms. Amos's denunciation of Judah would fall on sympathetic ears in Israel.

Nahum 1:2 has absolutely nothing to do with Luke 3:16-17! Yet the pied piper puts the two together. Beware following this fool.

• Expositor's Bible Commentary on Nahum 1:2 -- "Avenging" and "vengeance" (both noqem; cf. TWOT, 2:598- 99) are judicial in nature, expressing judgment and requital for infractions of law and morality, primarily those committed with presumption and impenitence. Such infractions are defined in this case by the terms of the covenant that they threaten to disrupt (cf. Lev 26:25; Deut 32:35, 41, 43). As a judicial function vengeance belongs supremely to God, the Judge of the whole earth (e. g., Deut 32:35), and to the ordained representatives of his authority (e. g., Exod 21:20- 21; Num 31:2- 3; Josh 10:13; Esth 8:13). Consequently, man is forbidden to take the law into his own hands or to exercise his own vengeance on enemies.
• Expositor's Bible Commentary on Luke 3:16-17 -- Interpreters have discussed whether the fiery work of the Spirit is judgment or purification also. Modern readers find it difficult to understand how the concepts of the Spirit, baptism (usually associated with water), and fire relate to one another. The biblical background (e. g., Isa 44:3; Ezek 36:25- 27; Joel 2:28- 29) and also lQS 4. 20- 21 show that the concept of washing and refreshing was associated with the Spirit. Fire is an ancient symbol of judgment, refinement, and purification (cf. Notes). We may conclude that John and his contemporaries were already acquainted with all these nuances. The Holy Spirit was understood as being active in saving, purifying, and judging. The Spirit had definitely, but not frequently, been associated with the Messiah (Isa 11:12), whose coming would mean also the availability of the Spirit's ministry.

Again, despite correction, the pied piper repeats his call for a CME and he ties this to Isaiah 13:13, and Malachi 4:1. Besides being ludicrous, if he keeps throwing verses together, he hopes somehow they will stick. The only connection they have is in describing a time of God's Wrath - but neither have anything to do with Isaiah 30:26.

• Expositor's Bible Commentary on Isaiah 13 -- God created the natural order as an environment for human beings, as Genesis 1 reveals. The Fall disturbed this order, and some indication of this is given in the penalties prescribed by God (Gen 3:14- 19). In v. 10 we see God's hand of judgment falling on the great heavenly bodies, whose regular motions provide strong support for man's belief in an ordered universe. Their light- giving function (cf. Gen 1:14- 19) will be hindered. This language is to be taken up in our Lord's great apocalyptic discourse (Matt 24:29; Mark 13:24- 25; cf. Isa 34:4), and the sun hid its face when his own supreme act of sin- bearing took place (Matt 27:45; Mark 15:33; Luke 23:44- 45).
• Expositor's Bible Commentary on Malachi 4:1 -- Note 1 The eschatological theme of the Day of the Lord bulks large in the OT prophets 24:3- 25:46; Rom 2:5; 2 Peter 3:10; Rev 16:14). It continues into the second half of this somber verse in which Malachi alternately reproved and warned. The picture of it in v. 1 is cosmological. Fire will be the agent of destruction on that day as was water in Noah's day.

Fire is described in the Bible for the Day of the Lord: Malachi 4:1 is true. However, Jesus revealed to us through John the source for that fire, and it ain't the sun...

Here is the first Judgment after the arrival of the Great Multitude in Heaven:
Rev 8:6 And the seven angels who had the seven trumpets prepared themselves to sound them.
7 The first sounded, and there came hail and fire, mixed with blood, and they were thrown to the earth; and a third of the earth was burned up, and a third of the trees were burned up, and all the green grass was burned up.

And immediately after the Harvest of the earth by Jesus on the clouds:
Rev 14:17 And another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, and he also had a sharp sickle. 18 Then another angel, the one who has power over fire, came out from the altar; and he called with a loud voice to him who had the sharp sickle, saying, " Put in your sharp sickle and gather the clusters from the vine of the earth, because her grapes are ripe."

The source of the fire is from God, delivered by Angels. The sun shines bright on the Remnant after the time of God's Wrath is over.