The wrong Cross

[Episkopos]

You seem to believe there are carnal believers and spiritual ones. I disagree, there are His sheep and the rest. Test yourselves to find ones heart. God bless you

With this ridiculous statement you are making it such that even a confused person like Behold looks like he's right in comparison.

Nobody is born mature. Most believers will remain carnal their whole lives. The infiltration of carnality into the church is such that no other outcome would seem to be possible.

But if a carnal believer is the one judging the issue...then everything appears to be just fine. The church, however, still is not measuring up to the holy standard we see in the bible.

 

[FollowHim]

With this ridiculous statement you are making it such that even a confused person like Behold looks like he's right in comparison.

Nobody is born mature. Most believers will remain carnal their whole lives. The infiltration of carnality into the church is such that no other outcome would seem to be possible.

But if a carnal believer is the one judging the issue...then everything appears to be just fine. The church, however, still is not measuring up to the holy standard we see in the bible.

Some hold they know Jesus yet live in sin, which they have no power to conquer. That is the definition of sinners in the world.
If we can learn to walk righteously, then we do not need Jesus to be righteous. It is a humanist argument, people are innately good, it is their environment that corrupts them, give them the right environment and you will get utopia.

It is the cross and faith that empowers love in our hearts to change and transform us. Yes there are battles with past emotional reactions to sin, and learning to know our limitations and weaknesses, but it is exercising faith and walking in the Spirit that brings victory.

What is often called carnal believers are just unbelievers who have a desire for morality and a clear conscience but have no clue how to achieve it, but think the church will help. What you see in the church is a mixture of unbelievers and believers, the believers are being transformed from glory unto glory while the others are just treading water and often just about coping but not much more.

The dynamic in all our lives is do we believe Jesus loves us, and are we willing to let this love transform every emotional contact we have with everyone and how we open up our hearts to change and transformation of every aspect of who we are?

 

[FollowHim]

With this ridiculous statement you are making it such that even a confused person like Behold looks like he's right in comparison.

Nobody is born mature. Most believers will remain carnal their whole lives. The infiltration of carnality into the church is such that no other outcome would seem to be possible.

But if a carnal believer is the one judging the issue...then everything appears to be just fine. The church, however, still is not measuring up to the holy standard we see in the bible.

"With this ridiculous statement"

I agree in certain views I am saying something ridiculous. But if you and I are just our emotional conclusions in our hearts with our linear intellectual conclusions, I am speaking the truth. Either Christs love is at work, sorting out all our reactions and experiences so we begin to live and respond like Him, or we are lost. Unless the Holy Spirit is alive in us, the Kingdom coming to reign or we do not know Jesus and are not saved.

Paul is blunt. Either we are presented as Gods holy people, pure, blameless, shinning stars or we have an empty vessel with nothing to offer. And this gate and path do not exist unless it has begun, in reality, in our hearts, and the Lord is working through them. Sin is founded on "if only" and I am innocent, I have the right to hurt others because I am hurt, I have the right to take, because you stole it first etc.

You cannot be touched by Jesus and not become an enemy to this world. There are some on the periphery of these realities but have never entered in, but the realities have never changed. I have no idea who knows the reality of Jesus and who does not, I am just called to witness and testify to Him. God bless you

 

[Episkopos]

"With this ridiculous statement"

I agree in certain views I am saying something ridiculous. But if you and I are just our emotional conclusions in our hearts with our linear intellectual conclusions, I am speaking the truth. Either Christs love is at work, sorting out all our reactions and experiences so we begin to live and respond like Him, or we are lost. Unless the Holy Spirit is alive in us, the Kingdom coming to reign or we do not know Jesus and are not saved.

Paul is blunt. Either we are presented as Gods holy people, pure, blameless, shinning stars or we have an empty vessel with nothing to offer. And this gate and path do not exist unless it has begun, in reality, in our hearts, and the Lord is working through them. Sin is founded on "if only" and I am innocent, I have the right to hurt others because I am hurt, I have the right to take, because you stole it first etc.

You cannot be touched by Jesus and not become an enemy to this world. There are some on the periphery of these realities but have never entered in, but the realities have never changed. I have no idea who knows the reality of Jesus and who does not, I am just called to witness and testify to Him. God bless you

Calvinist reasoning implies that if a woman has a mis-carriage then she was never really pregnant.

David was a killer, a liar and an adulterer yet he was also a man after God's heart...through it all.

But we can indeed outgrow our sins. We can be instructed in righteousness. We can mend our own ways.

And this in no way goes against the idea that none can be holy without a full surrender and a full offering of grace.

They are on 2 different levels...and they co-exist just like quantum theory exists with relativity. The law of the big and the law of the small. But he who is faithful in little things is also faithful is bigger things.

 

[justbyfaith]

If I see you bleeding at the side of the road...would you wave me on and say that you were worried that I might help you in the flesh...by my own efforts...where I might have to huff and puff? Should I worry that I'm trying to earn my salvation by helping you? Would my effort to save you in my strength jeopardize God's direct intervention? So then I would NOT save you by my works? I would just pray that God would miraculously help you somehow and keep myself pure from getting my hands dirty? (Do you realize that is what the Pharisees did...ignore the law..for the sake of their temple holiness? but you...for your equally false grace scheme?)

The reality is, that if you are relying on your own strength, you will not help him as he lays bleeding on the side of the road...

Any work that is truly worthy of reward in the kingdom of heaven is motivated by love. And that comes by the Holy Ghost.

If someone helps a man by the side of the road because they want to avoid guilt, for example, they have truly done a good work...

However, when they stand before Jesus at the bema seat judgment, that very work will be counted as wood, hay, or stubble.

You seem to believe there are carnal believers and spiritual ones. I disagree, there are His sheep and the rest.

Paul identifies himself as carnal in Romans 7:14 (utilizing the literary tactic of IDENTIFICATION that he speaks of in 1 Corinthians 9:22 (kjv)); and also declares that the carnal are the babes in Christ in 1 Corinthians 3:1-3; and that there are also spiritual believers.

Put away your John MacArthur books and start reading your Bible.

 

[justbyfaith]

You cannot be touched by Jesus and not become an enemy to this world.

More accurately, you cannot be touched by Jesus and still be a friend to the world.

This does not mean that you desire that the world go to pot or that it be brought to detriment. As believers in Christ, we are to be salt and light; and salt is a preserving agent. Therefore as believers, we are friends to the world in that we are keeping it from decaying beyond repair.

But we are not friends to the world in that the world system...which has as its basis the lust of the flesh and the lust of the eyes and the pride of life....does not have sway over us and we do not contribute to its debauchery the way we used to before we were born again.

So then, we are not friends of the world system; but we do act as friends to the people who live in the world...

Even Jesus was considered to be "the friend of tax collectors and sinners."

 

[FollowHim]

More accurately, you cannot be touched by Jesus and still be a friend to the world.

This does not mean that you desire that the world go to pot or that it be brought to detriment. As believers in Christ, we are to be salt and light; and salt is a preserving agent. Therefore as believers, we are friends to the world in that we are keeping it from decaying beyond repair.

But we are not friends to the world in that the world system...which has as its basis the lust of the flesh and the lust of the eyes and the pride of life....does not have sway over us and we do not contribute to its debauchery the way we used to before we were born again.

So then, we are not friends of the world system; but we do act as friends to the people who live in the world...

Even Jesus was considered to be "the friend of tax collectors and sinners."

My focus is on the action in our hearts of love and Jesus. Once one accepts all who come to Christ have the Holy Spirit, you buy into the essential nature of transformation. This is not something we choose, it is God at work in us. So there is tension is sanctification but there is always growth and change, or else one is dead and lost. The superspiritual emphasis of being born again, has led to the idea of saved believers living a life of sin, rather than, unsaved believers who have never known Jesus continuing in their life of sin.

I have resisted this over emphasis on arriving to walking the narrow path. Until the end, only then will we see the hand of the Lord in our lives as the night becomes day. God bless you

 

[Behold]

You are very confused about the law and grace. They are not against each other as you would have them be. Righteousness is not against holiness and holiness is not against righteousness.

The NT says that if righteousness comes by the Law then the Cross is worthless.....Christ has died in Vain. = for nothing.

When you understand what that means, episkopos, you'll finally have begun to understand why the Cross was raised and why the Law is a "curse".


"sin shall not have dominion over you, you are not under the Law".
"Not under the law".
"not under the Law"
"Not under the law".
"Not under the law".

"The power of sin, is the Law".
"The power of sin, is the Law".
"The power of sin, is the Law".
"The power of sin, is the Law".

"Christ came to redeem you, from the CURSE OF THE LAW"
"Christ came to redeem you, from the CURSE OF THE LAW"
"Christ came to redeem you, from the CURSE OF THE LAW"

 

[Behold]

You seem to believe there are carnal believers and spiritual ones. I disagree, there are His sheep and the rest. Test yourselves to find ones heart. God bless you

The reason that most Christian are repenting and confessing "sin", is because they have committed them.
If you are unable to comprehend this reality, then, as i told episkopos, .. i can teach you, but i can't believe for you.
I can't comprehend for you.

 

[Behold]

I am correcting the idea that Gods law must be done away with for a man to be saved. .

Yet, i have not stated, implied, or insinuated that "God's law must be done away with".
So, who are you trying to correct?
Are you correcting yourself?

Listen, Faith comes by hearing the word of God, and Salvation comes as "Grace through faith, without works".

Salvation is a GIFT.
Its not earned, and its not kept by any person who is born again.
its given by God as a GIFT, and then its KEPT by God as His faithfulness.

How does that happen?
Because when we are saved, we become a living and eternal part of GOD Himself.
We are born again INTO God's Spirit, and we become a part of Him, and He becomes, "Christ in you the hope of Glory".
The term "in Christ" means "ONE" with God and Christ......= Spiritually CONNECTED.
WE dont cause that, and we can't stop it from BEING eternal once it has happened.

The Law and Commandments are Holy.
But they are against us, because we are not of ourselves able to keep them perfectly.
If we did, it would not matter, as Paul kept them, then taught that this is MEANINGLESS "dung". Philippians 3
= That there is no real righteousness gained by our behavior, or lifestyle, or commandment keeping.
The remedy for our situation of being UNRIGHTEOUS.....this issue we have with being a sinner who can't of themselves gain any Righteousness..is that God gives us HIS from the CROSS. = SALVATION = Final answer.

"The Gift of Righteousness".....>= "as Christ is, so are the born again IN THIS WORLD".. We the born again are = "The righteousness of God, in Christ". = God does all this.
We do none of it of ourselves.
God GIVES righteousness and we become it when we are born again as a "NEW CREATION IN CHRIST"

"God who BEGAN salvation in the born again, will HIMSELF be Faithful to complete it".

Complete WHAT?

= OUR SALVATION......from beginning to end.

God Starts it with the BLOOD of Jesus and ends it with BLOOD of Jesus... = The Cross = "the finished work of Jesus on the Cross".

"The blood of Jesus that SAVED YOU< = KEEPS YOU SAVED".

 

[FollowHim]

The reason that most Christian are repenting and confessing "sin", is because they have committed them.
If you are unable to comprehend this reality, then, as i told episkopos, .. i can teach you, but i can't believe for you.
I can't comprehend for you.

Thank you for the offer of teaching me. I have one teacher, Jesus, and thats enough for me. The whole point of sanctification is the change for knowing Jesus and having faith in Him to becoming like Him.

I believe this an eternal aspiration as we can only aspire to the infinite, and we will never complete this. In the end one is either walking with this passion or one is not walking.

God bless you

 

[Episkopos]

The NT says that if righteousness comes by the Law then the Cross is worthless.....Christ has died in Vain. = for nothing.

When you understand what that means, episkopos, you'll finally have begun to understand why the Cross was raised and why the Law is a "curse".


"sin shall not have dominion over you, you are not under the Law".
"Not under the law".
"not under the Law"
"Not under the law".
"Not under the law".

"The power of sin, is the Law".
"The power of sin, is the Law".
"The power of sin, is the Law".
"The power of sin, is the Law".

"Christ came to redeem you, from the CURSE OF THE LAW"
"Christ came to redeem you, from the CURSE OF THE LAW"
"Christ came to redeem you, from the CURSE OF THE LAW"

By giving us grace to fulfill the law
By giving us grace to fulfill the law
By giving us grace to fulfill the law.

Indoctrination isn't necessary if you understand the truth.

 

[Behold]

Thank you for the offer of teaching me. I have one teacher, Jesus, and thats enough for me. The whole point of sanctification is the change for knowing Jesus and having faith in Him to becoming like Him.
God bless you

The NT says the Holy Spirit is your teacher.
The NT says that Jesus gives "teachers"..
Im one..
But thats ok, followhim...
You just do it the way you feel you should, never thinking about it much, and most of all, dont let truth or facts stand in your way.

im out.


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[Behold]

By giving us grace to fulfill the law
By giving us grace to fulfill the law
By giving us grace to fulfill the law.

Indoctrination isn't necessary if you understand the truth.

You should try studying the NT.
This way, when i teach it, you could answer, you could respond... as if you understood anything it teaches.
Talking to you, is like talking to someone who has read a little of the OT, and has not spent much time in the New.

Listen,
God does not require that you fulfill the Law, episkopos.
Stop worrying about the Law.
Stop talking about the Law.
The Law is not your savior, its not your friend, and it will only keep you sinning and repenting.
Worrying about the law, trying to keep it to be accepted by God, is the mind of a Legalist.
Are you one?
I think you are....

Paul fulfilled all the LAW himself, and in Philippians 3 says that your idea about it is the same as His was at one point until He met Jesus The Christ.
Listen episkopos....Jesus already fulfilled the law for you.
You don't know this yet.. but if you ever do, you'll stop worrying about the law, and you may be able to come to the place where you stop sinning and confessing and repenting.

 

[Episkopos]

You should try studying the NT.
This way, when i teach it, you could answer, you could respond... as if you understood anything it teaches.
Talking to you, is like talking to someone who has read a little of the OT, and has not spent much time in the New.

Listen,
God does not require that you fulfill the Law, episkopos.
Stop worrying about the Law.
Stop talking about the Law.
The Law is not your savior, its not your friend, and it will only keep you sinning and repenting.
Worrying about the law, trying to keep it to be accepted by God, is the mind of a Legalist.
Are you one?
I think you are....

Paul fulfilled all the LAW himself, and in Philippians 3 says that your idea about it is the same as His was at one point until He met Jesus The Christ.
Listen episkopos....Jesus already fulfilled the law for you.
You don't know this yet.. but if you ever do, you'll stop worrying about the law, and you may be able to come to the place where you stop sinning and confessing and repenting.

Since this IS a thread about doing it wrong...I leave you to you condescension and ridiculous ideas that are truly avoiding the true cross of Christ. Readers beware.

It is the doers of the law that are justified...not the hearers of the law. They who break God's laws are transgressors. Is Christ a minister of sin?

 

[farouk]

Hebrews 13:9

@Behold : Great verse - great Epistle, indeed - to remember...

 

[Behold]

It is the doers of the law that are justified...not the hearers of the law. T

If doers of the law are born again, then explain to Christ about the Cross and that scourging He had to endure.
You are a legalist.
You teach AGAINST the Grace of God.
Your gospel, is "SELF", and has rejected the Cross.
Teach it more now.... as this is what you will do.

 

[Behold]

@Behold : Great verse - great Epistle, indeed - to remember...

If our hearts are established by God's Grace, we will never become the victim of false religious ideas that reject the Cross and elevate self righteousness.
For example, you have episkopos teaching that the Law saves you, and keeping it is salvation.
Episkopos teaches that keeping the law is what justifies you, and not the Cross or the Blood of Jesus.
This is a Legalist., clearly defined by their own statements.

 

[farouk]

If our hearts are established by God's Grace, we will never become the victim of false religious ideas that reject the Cross and elevate self righteousness.
For example, you have episkopos teaching that the Law saves you, and keeping it is salvation.
Episkopos teaches that keeping the law is what justifies you, and not the Cross or the Blood of Jesus.
This is a Legalist., clearly defined by their own statements.

@Behold Peter and John in their Epistles - as well as Paul, indeed - show that it's faith in the precious blood that is essential among those who claim to believe in the Son of God; there is no admixture of law-keeping or human merit permissible.

 

[Episkopos]

If doers of the law are born again, then explain to Christ about the Cross and that scourging He had to endure.
You are a legalist.
You teach AGAINST the Grace of God.
Your gospel, is "SELF", and has rejected the Cross.
Teach it more now.... as this is what you will do.

Hmm..anti cross AND anti-bible.
For someone who reviles an alleged lack of bible knowledge in others you sure don't seem to be familiar with it yourself.

Romans 2: 11 For there is no respect of persons with God.

12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;

13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.)

Grace FULFILLS the law as it is the power that enables us to walk as Jesus walked. THAT is grace...not your twisted scheme that is without any kind of connection to God or heavenly power.