The wrong Cross

[quietthinker]

I forgot to add. The reason why the Law makes sin evident is because the Law challenges us to act morally. Anyone can say to himself, I can stop sinning any time I want. I'm a good person.

But put that notion to the test. Attempt to keep the Law, attempt to act morally all the time and see where it leads. The law will only make sin evident at the very moment one attempts to obey it.

The unregenerate man surely has this problem. The regenerate man however has at his disposable the whole armoury of heaven......he can if he chooses reach out and grasp it.......and overcome.....just as Jesus did.
In fact, herein is faith with power manifested.

I think of Gethsemane.....the sweating of blood by Jesus.....yes, it was a struggle, its immensity manifest in the above observation.......yet power was given him, not in the clash of arms or muscle or great display but in reaching and grasping God's promises ...'nevertheless not will be done but yours'.....and he overcame.

Jesus our example says we too can overcome and they that do receive the promises.

 

[quietthinker]

I might add, it is righteousness which is threatened.....temptation has the ability to blur the priorities. Consider Eve in the garden.....consider your own experience; is there a love for righteousness; for representing God well?

All who have this love are surely tested.....and it doesn't let up. Relief is dependant on staying connected 24/7.

 

[FollowHim]

The reason you can't stop wanting to sin, is because you are trying to stop wanting to sin.
Fail = Trying to stop.

Here is the issue...

The LAW, enflames your flesh. It actually causes your flesh to become activated TOWARDS sinning.

See, most believers are taught...>"well, we resist sin and the devil flees"....so, they think..." resist sin and it stops trying to get me to sin".
But notice the verse....."the DEVIL" will flee.
Well, the DEVIL is not your problem for the most part, as its the SIN in you, the wrong desire in your FLESH that DESIRES to sin, that is the REAL issue.
You have to solve THAT.

See, if the Devil was no longer alive, you would still have this issue in your flesh ...which wants to be SATISFIED by sin.
SIN feeds the carnal desire. Carnal desire is an appetite that needs SIN as Spiritual FOOD.
Understand?
So, when you starve your flesh, or when you strive against it, you just make it more hungry for sinning. (carnal spiritual food).
And THIS process, is how the LAW empowers your carnality to become WORSE.
So, to keep on sinning, .. what you do.....is try to STOP in your own power.
And what happens? You become more sin conscious, which leads you to sin more.. and more.
This "sin consciousness", is how the LAW, curses you.....It actually provokes and stimulates your carnal desire to want to sin more.

= The power oF SIN = THE LAW.

How to stop all that is what you have to learn, so that you can stop sinning.

Paul said....
"sin shall not have dominion over you".. = "Christ has redeemed us from the CURSE OF THE LAW".. "you are not under the law, but UNDER GRACE". "if you walk in the Spirit you shall not sin".. "how can the born again, who are dead to sin, continue to sin"?

Understand that if you are "under the law" then you will sin, because "the power of sin is the LAW".
To be under the law, is to try to stop sinning by willpower, or by gritting your teeth and trying not to do it again..
You will fail. and fail. and fail.
And that is why your life is "sinning and repenting, sinning and confessing".

So, you have to get yourself out from under the Law, Reader....
As its by trying to resist sin, in your own power, by WILL< that puts you under the law's dominion that causes you to sin more...and more and more.
The Law is as curse to you... It works like this. =when you try by self effort to stop sinning, the Law will cause you to have more desire to sin.
See that?
That is..>"the curse of the Law".......and "Christ came to REDEEM US from the CURSE of the Law".
So, you have to get out from UNDER that curse..... "we are not under the Law, we are UNDER GRACE".
You have to now LIVE "under GRACE" or you will keep on sinning and repenting and failing.

This means that to stop that cycle, you have to get away from trying to resist sin, and instead live inside the Grace of God = "Under GRACE".
You have to understand that by living IN the Grace of God, you stop striving to do what can't be done, and this allows you to REST from that striving.
Its resting in the Grace of God.. Its coming into mental alignment (the mind of Christ) with the Grace of God, that gives you rest from the consciousness of sin, that FREES YOU FROM it.

How do you live in the Grace of God?
You will find this to be your place of rest, the second you no longer believe that you can lose your salvation.
Once you are THERE Mentally, then you have understood GRACE< and God's Grace will now become your sanctuary that allows you to REST from striving against the Law, which is why you keep on sinning and repenting and confessing.
You have to establish your HEART, your entire belief system, on/by = GOD's GRACE and MERCY, and get the CROSS of SELF Righteousness OFF OF YOUR OWN BACK.
Till you do, you will not be able to stop sinning.

You have to live HERE. Hebrews 13:9

The cross if you dwell on it long enough, full of the Holy Spirit, bring only one conclusion, love given that we might be saved.
The power of the cross is meditating on Gods love for us transforms and heals us, changes our loyalties and who we listen to. There is no more powerful symbol in the universe than this, that God humbled Himself even unto death, and death on the cross for us.

In this one act, the infinite becomes visible, Gods heart made plain and all our excuses and self justification extinguished.
When men claim God came with an impossible standard, the cross says otherwise.
When men claim God has not right to judge man, because He could do no better, the cross says otherwise.
When men claim they are innocent, victims of circumstance and events outside their control, the cross says otherwise.

As emotional beings driven by passion and desire, we know we are slaves to how these operate in the society until we meet Jesus.
He cuts across everything with an alternative, the most powerful statement of victory ever in history, testified in a society different to our own, proclaiming that in our short lives, love is the highest ethic we can ever aspire to. Culture after culture has come to agree, though every other alternative has been looked at, the cross conquers all.

So many political theories have waged war in this world, and all have failed. In the end it is just us and the Lord, repentance and faith or sin and death. And those who never grasp faith, never see the dynamic healing within, and love coming to reign above all the suffering and hurts used to justify selfish destructive behaviour to others.

God bless you

 

[Behold]

I'm sorry, brother, but this is a mess. Gods law is spiritual and good. Gods law is not the power of sin.

Here is what you'll have to face, but i dont think you will as i dont think you care enough to find out why you are so theologically backwards.
And if you do discover that its because of your pastor, pope, minister, church, family, friends, denomination, ... will you have the courage to let all that go and choose to follow the truth even if you have to let go of the junk that is keeping you in the theological darkness?
I dont think you will do it., but i will show you this.

Now, you just said that the law is good and the law is not the power of sin.
You said this, because you dont read a bible, and you have no idea about very much in the NT.

Here is what Paul said, which is what i just told you.

1 Corinthians 15 : ""The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law.""

Now, did you read that stunnedbygrace, >?

"the POWER OF SIN IS THE LAW"...

Do you think Paul is misquoting himself?
Not quite.
He has it right, and you are clueless.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

I addressed that verse if you will read further.

Episkopos was right, you avoid the cross. The law is binding on a man until he dies. It is an actual death, even though you see the man walking around. It is not some mystical, unknowable thing, this death.

 

[Behold]

However, you misquoted a verse, and I think it's an important one. You said something about resisting sin, and the devil will flee from us...
.

I didnt misquote the verse.

Next, what i told you is that your issue isn't the devil. The issue is the wrong believing that leads a believer into a useless lifestyle of sinning and confessing and repenting, when they should have this under control by their 2-3 yr subsequent to being born again.
Instead most are still doing the baby christian steps = sinning, repenting, and confessing, and they are saved 5 - 50 yrs.

WHAT i teach is how to stop being a carnal christian.

 

[Behold]

I addressed that verse if you will read further.

No need.
You read that the power of sin is the law, then you want to praise the law, when in fact "Christ died to free us from the curse of the Law".
So, if you can't understand why the Law is a curse to a human being, do i need to read anything else you say, as it'll also be wrong.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

No need.
You read that the power of sin is the law, then you want to praise the law, when in fact "Christ died to free us from the curse of the Law".
So, if you can't understand why the Law is a curse to a human being, do i need to read anything else you say, as it'll also be wrong.

The law is a curse because it says the soul who sins must die. It is not a curse because Gods law is bad. To not murder is a good thing.

 

[Behold]

Yes, we can have victory over even being tempted if we will but realize that we are no longer under the law, are dead to it, and are delivered from it (Romans 7:5, Romans 7:8).

Yes you need to do that..
But, there is something else.
You have to rest in the Grace of God, understanding that you will always be as peace with God no matter your behavior.
This is because our Peace with God is created by the redemption of the Blood of Jesus, which maintains our peace with God.
So, to walk in the Light, you have to live in the Grace of God, Mentally, whereby you never have any doubt that you are always accepted and at peace.
As once you leave this, or if you have never found this place of Grace, MENTALLY, then you are striving to stay with God, by being good enough.
And THAT mentality allows the Law to have dominion, and you'll sin and sin and confess and repent, and wont be able to stop.
So, you have to get away from that wrong believing.

 

[Behold]

The law is a curse because it says the soul who sins must die. It is not a curse because Gods law is bad. To not murder is a good thing.

You are correcting your own words in a dishonest way.
Stop.
You said that the power of sin is NOT the Law..
Those are your words.

And regarding your update... I said the law is Holy.
I wrote a Thread yesterday about the Law, and in it i again say the law is Holy.
The issue is, you are not.
I am not without the blood of Jesus.
We have to be made Holy/Righteous, and THE LAW can't do it....But the CROSS DID.
To us, the Law is a curse, and i teach why and i teach how to get out from under it so that we can live in perfected discipleship.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Yes you need to do that..
But, there is something else.
You have to rest in the Grace of God, understanding that you will always be as peace with God no matter your behavior.
This is because our Peace with God is created by the redemption of the Blood of Jesus, which maintains our peace with God.
So, to walk in the Light, you have to live in the Grace of God, Mentally, whereby you never have any doubt that you are always accepted and at peace.
As once you leave this, or if you have never found this place of Grace, MENTALLY, then you are striving to stay with God, by being good enough.
And THAT mentality allows the Law to have dominion, and you'll sin and sin and confess and repent, and wont be able to stop.
So, you have to get away from that wrong believing.

Peace with God no matter your behavior only works for a newborn who will soon begin to learn how not to soil himself if he wants to please his parents.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

You are correcting your own words in a dishonest way.
Stop.
You said that the power of sin is NOT the Law..
Those are your words.

And regarding your update... I said the law is Holy.
I wrote a Thread yesterday about the Law, and in it i again say the law is Holy.
The issue is, you are not.
I am not without the blood of Jesus.
We have to be made Holy/Righteous, and THE LAW can't do it....But the CROSS DID.
To us, the Law is a curse, and i teach why and i teach how to get out from under it so that we can live in perfected discipleship.

I am not correcting my words in a dishonest way. I am correcting the idea that Gods law must be done away with for a man to be saved. It is the CURSE of the law (the threat of death) that must be settled. Once the man doesnt have to be consumed with that thought, he can begin. And that beginning can be an HONEST one, because he doesnt have to try to hide his sin but can be truthful about it. But there is a fate worse than the second death, as the man discovers. There is a place of eternal darkness. It will be more tolerable for Sodom on that day than it will be for those cast there. They are not afforded the mercy of the second death.

 

[FollowHim]

Yes you need to do that..
But, there is something else.
You have to rest in the Grace of God, understanding that you will always be as peace with God no matter your behavior.
This is because our Peace with God is created by the redemption of the Blood of Jesus, which maintains our peace with God.
So, to walk in the Light, you have to live in the Grace of God, Mentally, whereby you never have any doubt that you are always accepted and at peace.
As once you leave this, or if you have never found this place of Grace, MENTALLY, then you are striving to stay with God, by being good enough.
And THAT mentality allows the Law to have dominion, and you'll sin and sin and confess and repent, and wont be able to stop.
So, you have to get away from that wrong believing.

Finding a place of grace in Christ, amen, to enter into His rest.
Have you ever thought that maybe, just maybe you are trying to do Gods work for Him?

It is Christ who bring new birth in Him, and He who provides the growth. All we can do is spread the seeds and water the hearts of the Lords people.
The pharisees could not cope with the disciples not washing their hands and eating corn from the fields on the sabbath.

Their judgement of another was based on small issues of behaviour as if they were significant. Raising up the levels of how we see Jesus, is not going to change the heart. Seeing Jesus the man, visiting my house, embracing me as His disciple, Amen. How much effort would we put in to have the most important person in the country visit our house? The Lord is King of creation, the Lord of all, and yet He knows the numbers of hairs on our heads. Love is so profound and our distrust of others because of past betrayals. But to meet Jesus, who knows us completely yet forgives and invites us to follow, that is astounding.

A way to understand how deeply Jesus has come into our hearts is to listen to this

Blessed are the pure in heart, for they will see God.
Matt 5:8

How many of us know what Jesus means? Without being purified, we will never see as God sees, or know His will and direction. This is not an option, it is a baseline of our reality. Seeing Jesus becomes alive as He washes us clean. So many emotions, excuses, guilt, memories, hurts, unforgiveness, hatred, blame cloud our view. God could have written the bible from cover to cover but we would have said it was just God boasting. What God could give us was the testimony of how we reacted to Him, so we could know there was hope, that perfection could touch mortal, sinful man, and goodness and purity result. But out of the infinite variations that could be written, God desired that we record what mattered, how we changed, how through the insanity of sin and this world, the light of life shone into the hearts of man.

God bless you

 

[justbyfaith]

As believers in Christ, we are not under the law (Romans 6:14), we are dead to the law (Romans 7:4, Galatians 2:19) and we are delivered from the law (Romans 7:6).

This does not mean that we are no longer governed from the inside by moral principles (Hebrews 8:8-10, Hebrews 10:16).

It means that there is no longer any condemnation for them who are in Christ Jesus.

These being defined by their walk, that is not according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.

Being born again, I have no more condemnation from the law: I am forgiven of past, present, and future sins (Romans 4:8, Romans 7:38-39, Hebrews 9:12).

Which may in fact even be a moot point; since as one who is born of God I "don't commit sin" and "cannot sin" (1 John 3:9).

As one who is abiding in Christ I "sin not" (1 John 3:6).

But if anyone does sin as a believer, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the Righteous One (1 John 2:1).

Concerning sins that we may commit in the future, He says, "Father, all of <your name here, if you have trusted in what Jesus did for you on the Cross>'s sins are underneath my blood; I died for them: and You know what that means...they no longer have any power to condemn him/her."

 

[justbyfaith]

You have to rest in the Grace of God, understanding that you will always be as peace with God no matter your behavior.

Yes, no matter my behaviour...as long as my faith is squarely placed in Jesus Christ and what He did for me on the Cross.

 

[Behold]

Yes, no matter my behaviour...as long as my faith is squarely placed in Jesus Christ and what He did for me on the Cross.

Behavior, subsequent to being Born again, = Discipleship.

So, this matters in the sense that as we are the Lights in this world, our WITNESS needs to be perfect, and our lives free from sin.

Where this becomes bondage, is when a believer is trying to DO ALL THAT, to try to keep themselves saved.
As then, they are trusting in SELF, and have "fallen from Grace", having lost faith in CHRIST to keep them saved.

 

[FollowHim]

Behavior, subsequent to being Born again, = Discipleship.

So, this matters in the sense that as we are the Lights in this world, our WITNESS needs to be perfect, and our lives free from sin.

Where this becomes bondage, is when a believer is trying to DO ALL THAT, to try to keep themselves saved.
As then, they are trusting in SELF, and have "fallen from Grace", having lost faith in CHRIST to keep them saved.

I find it interesting your belief is trying to obey is bondage, while obeying is not.

The turning point in Pauls expressions is faith. Faith or trust in Jesus is our anchor, no matter where we are, and how sideways we have been knocked. And some will get knocked a long way. I know a brother who core to his personality was respect from father to son. He had an image that his son must regard him in this way. When his son did not, it shock him and became unforgivable. The issue became more than his love of Jesus.

Paul talked about keeping the faith. Faith is our righteousness, knowing Jesus and His forgiveness. The difference between Judas and Peter, was Peter knew Jesus would forgive him, Judas did not. Judas did not know Jesus at a heart level, he stayed on the outside, looking to see how the revolution would play out, because the Messiah would restore the Kingdom of Israel and God would reign.

Paul knew how to keep the law, blamelessly, but knew it did not connect him with God, and in his zeal he ended up persecuting Gods own people. When Paul met Jesus, suddenly things shifted, grace and love became the cornerstone through the cross, suffering despite knowing the truth, power in love to overcome. Faith is the bedrock that brings obedience to Gods commands because love flows from the cross, knowing God died for us, brutally, freely, openly, sacrificially so that we might be healed and made whole, able to carry the burdens of others.

Obedience is just a measure of the change and the work God has done in resolving the emotional issues within and the openness of our hearts. Our view on obedience does not change the reality, as Paul says, we have become slaves to righteousness, because righteousness is love of ones neighbour as oneself. God bless you

 

[Behold]

I find it interesting your belief is trying to obey is bondage, while obeying is not.

It would be better if you would try to comprehend what i write..

For example, ive never said, stated, or implied, that we as believers should not "present our bodies a living sacrifice".

What i teach is simply that to try to be obedient to keep yourself saved, or... to try to keep yourself in fellowship with God, is "walking in the flesh", because this is to have no understanding of HOW a person is made "righteous" and kept so.

Any baby christian understands tbat we are to desire to please God with our lives, but this becomes heresy and a "fallen from Grace" situation when you can't honestly say that you are trusting in Christ alone to get you into heaven.
Most believers would be LYING if they said...."oh sure, im only trusting in CHRIST to keep me saved, and not my SELF EFFORT".

 

[Episkopos]

It would be better if you would try to comprehend what i write..

For example, ive never said, stated, or implied, that we as believers should not "present our bodies a living sacrifice".

What i teach is simply that to try to be obedient to keep yourself saved, or... to try to keep yourself in fellowship with God, is "walking in the flesh", because this is to have no understanding of HOW a person is made "righteous" and kept so.

Any baby christian understands tbat we are to desire to please God with our lives, but this becomes heresy and a "fallen from Grace" situation when you can't honestly say that you are trusting in Christ alone to get you into heaven.
Most believers would be LYING if they said...."oh sure, im only trusting in CHRIST to keep me saved, and not my SELF EFFORT".

You are very confused about the law and grace. They are not against each other as you would have them be. Righteousness is not against holiness and holiness is not against righteousness.

If I see you bleeding at the side of the road...would you wave me on and say that you were worried that I might help you in the flesh...by my own efforts...where I might have to huff and puff? Should I worry that I'm trying to earn my salvation by helping you? Would my effort to save you in my strength jeopardize God's direct intervention? So then I would NOT save you by my works? I would just pray that God would miraculously help you somehow and keep myself pure from getting my hands dirty? (Do you realize that is what the Pharisees did...ignore the law..for the sake of their temple holiness? but you...for your equally false grace scheme?)

So then you would walk by a person in need...not willing to compromise your salvation without effort?

The law of God begins at loving others as we love ourselves. LOTS of human effort there. Lots of toil and sweat. Lots of humility and sacrifice.

Do you think that love for others is against God's salvation?

Then there is the higher law of loving God. But unless you understand love for others...you are building on sand.

 

[FollowHim]

It would be better if you would try to comprehend what i write..

For example, ive never said, stated, or implied, that we as believers should not "present our bodies a living sacrifice".

What i teach is simply that to try to be obedient to keep yourself saved, or... to try to keep yourself in fellowship with God, is "walking in the flesh", because this is to have no understanding of HOW a person is made "righteous" and kept so.

Any baby christian understands tbat we are to desire to please God with our lives, but this becomes heresy and a "fallen from Grace" situation when you can't honestly say that you are trusting in Christ alone to get you into heaven.
Most believers would be LYING if they said...."oh sure, im only trusting in CHRIST to keep me saved, and not my SELF EFFORT".

My point is simple, doing comes from the heart, and this desire in Jesus is eternal. Judging it will not change it, or those who do not know Him come into fellowship. Those who do not know Jesus need to repent and seek Him in faith.

You seem to believe there are carnal believers and spiritual ones. I disagree, there are His sheep and the rest. Test yourselves to find ones heart. God bless you