The wrong Cross

[Behold]

Some of these people believe in retrospective unbelief. I meet Jesus and are saved, amen. Later I learn I need to abide to walk the narrow path or face judgement. Oops now I am lost, even though I was saved. Oops, I am really still saved because it cannot be lost, even if I believe it can be.

This is a rediculous belief system, as it denies itself by its own logic.....

Reader,
It is illogical to believe that what can't save you, which is your own self effort, or commandments, or keeping laws, or a holy lifestyle.....that later after you are saved by God through Jesus, then these same that could not save you,..... a person now believes that what could not save you can cause you to lose your salvation if you dont do all that = self effort.

This is not just bad theology, its actually CRAZY THINKING.

It sounds like this..... "yes, i know that Jesus saved me......BUT.......you see.....>NOW i have to.... do. do. .. do this, do this, do this, and i make sure i dont to that, or that and i dont do that,......and by doing and not doing all that stuff, i am able to keep myself SAVED".

Reader, is that you?
Then stop that thinking, as it has ruined your relationship with God, and it is causing you to live in a sinning, repenting, confessing, failed Christianity.

LET GO OF YOUR SELF SAVING MIND. !!
Start believing that Christ's BLOOD is why you are now a Child of God, and the only reason you will remain a Child of God. = forever.

 

[Behold]

Do you believe you change things?
What you write you then deny, so not really a together message lol

Do i believe i change, what?
?
?

People's hearts? yes, God does that.
People's minds? yes, God does that.
People's lives? yes, God does that.

I show up, and things change.
God does that....
I show up on a Forum, and people start printing out my Threads.
God does that....
I show up and people start listening and they start wondering if their denomination is a cult and they become concerned.
God does that...
People read what i write and.... "" it seems to make so much sense'.."its so freeing"...."i never knew that God was like that,.... that I was so accepted by God, always"..
God does that......

What credit do i get?
I get credit for being on the job a lot, and always pushing the LIGHT.
That's my job.
God takes it from there.

God called me in 1987.
Ive seen miracles with my eyes OPEN.
He enabled me till today.

I am nothing.
I repeat. I am nothing.
God is everything. Jesus is everything.
I am just available to push the Light into the darkness, that dwells in most people, and most Christians.
Jesus said...>"be sure the light that is within you is not darkness".
It can be so, READER.. Believe it.

What are the best characteristics you can have if you are a Christian? ??
Its not being rich, or smart, or educated, or well liked, or well spoken, or charismatic, or well connected.
It these 2 :

1. Availability
2. Dependability.

Do i believe that by God's anointing im able to bring change?
Yes. How can the anointing of God not bring change?
It the only thing that can, and does.

Do you want to serve God?
Then you have to have to live here...... Hebrews 13:9
You have to live there till that becomes your heart.
Till then, forget it.


Reader,

"Faith comes by hearing". Hearing is not just EARS......Hearing is "understanding" in the inner man.
Hearing is to have truth revealed inside you, by God, through a teacher.
Im a teacher.
The Holy Spirit is a Teacher.
The words in a bible are a Teacher.
Life is a Teacher.

Jesus sat in a room full of people many times. They were fascinated. He didnt fly or float or glow in the dark. He didn't speak in tongues. He didnt try to impress by trying to "sound smart".
He just taught and Loved. And God was in His words. (And still is).
God is in anyone's words who God has chosen to speak through.
Your job reader, is to be able to DISCERN who this is, and who this isn't.
And if you can't do that, you will be the bi-product of a fool, and you will be a fool until you learn how to hear truth.
You have to learn how to hear truth so that you can discover who is lying to you.

 

[Behold]

You are believing in the blood as a dead entity. But the life is in the blood...that somehow that makes you saved IN your sins.

Its impossible to be "in Christ" and me be in my sin.
Its impossible for Christ to have become my sin on Calvary, and me still have them.
So, what you have said, is theological nonsense.
Its not related to the NT.
Its not related to Paul's Doctrine.
Its just your theological fantasy run amok and for way too long.

My "believing in the blood, as a dead entity"?
What?
Where do you get these crazy ideas?
My guess is from a lot of really bad commentaries and a lot of really bad ministers.

Listen carefully. ...

The blood that Jesus offered on The Cross 2000+ yrs ago, is still saving, redeeming, and justifying, today and tomorrow and till the end of eternity.
Why?
Because Jesus is GOD.
So, that is GOD's Blood that redeems and forgives and atones.
God's BLOOD is ALIVE TODAY. Its just as Alive today as THE CHRIST who shed it for ME 2000 + years ago.

I am "washed in the Blood". I am redeemed by the Blood. I am Justified by the Blood." I am "bought with a price" and that price is the BLOOD of GOD.

You should find out for yourself what this is all about... then we could agree.

 

[FollowHim]

Reader,
It is illogical to believe that what can't save you, which is your own self effort, or commandments, or keeping laws, or a holy lifestyle.....that later after you are saved by God through Jesus, then these same that could not save you,..... a person now believes that what could not save you can cause you to lose your salvation if you dont do all that = self effort.

This is not just bad theology, its actually CRAZY THINKING.

It sounds like this..... "yes, i know that Jesus saved me......BUT.......you see.....>NOW i have to.... do. do. .. do this, do this, do this, and i make sure i dont to that, or that and i dont do that,......and by doing and not doing all that stuff, i am able to keep myself SAVED".

Reader, is that you?
Then stop that thinking, as it has ruined your relationship with God, and it is causing you to live in a sinning, repenting, confessing, failed Christianity.

LET GO OF YOUR SELF SAVING MIND. !!
Start believing that Christ's BLOOD is why you are now a Child of God, and the only reason you will remain a Child of God. = forever.

My friend you do not know how to tell who is a friend and who is foe.
Failed christianity is whose fault? God or man?

If it is man, then they are not born from on high.
Who is our teacher? The Holy Spirit.
Who is the one who gives us growth in the Kingdom of heaven? God.

So if you think you are discerning that I rely on myself, you have no spiritual insight.
You are like a fanatic who has latched on to one concept, the true people of God are born of the Spirit and the false are trying to earn their way to heaven. Jesus put it simply, walk with Him and shine His love to all you meet.

It is love through the cross that changes us, moulds and remakes all our interactions.
So my friend, if you love Jesus, praise Him and share His love and forgiveness. God bless you

 

[FollowHim]

Its unfortunate that we , you and i, are the victims of a cultural verbal barrier that is not allowing us to connect our ideas regarding our theology, perfectly.

There is another approach that might help my friend.
Share your passion for Jesus and His ways.

It is our being touched by Him and the Holy Spirit bringing praise to our hearts every day that is the life of the Kingdom we have.
I know so many who see people without God but some grasp of certain aspects and speak such accusations against innocents.

But when you find out their testimony, it speaks of grace and a real encounter with the King.
Jesus was very specific in His ministry, he did not snuff out a glowing wick. Anyone who loves Jesus, amen, that is a good start.
How they listen and let love touch their hearts, that is depth and reality.

I came with love and a passion to walk with Jesus. Funny how many chopped me up and served me to the fire.
Just on this measure, that is how they respond to our Lord. God bless you

 

[Episkopos]

You can't even define my position. You have no knowledge of my position.
All you can do is harp on your one pride filled string of aggressive theological misunderstanding, of my position.

But i'll give you an opportunity to provide all of us here some of your deep theological understanding.
You'd like to do that, right?

Episkopos, ... explain to us : How the blood of Jesus that saved you, Keeps you saved.

Take your time, as if you can get this right, you are indeed learning some things here recently.

Here is the request one more time..... Explain how the blood of Jesus that saved you, keeps you saved.

All this projecting...because you really are trying crying out to find out more about the gospel...but because of pride you are afraid to ask. So you make a wild stab and wait eagerly to find out the truth...by pretending to resist the truth in order to have it explained to you. But you could have just asked humbly to get a much more brotherly response. But then your pride must also be satisified. We'll get to that later.

So then get your thinking cap on...

First. The sacrifice of Jesus was for ALL mankind...not just believers. So the the death of Jesus is about buying back His creation to Himself. The WHOLE world...not just the church. Now you are not going to understand this biblical concept because you think that your belief is more powerful than the wisdom of God. And you have been indoctrinated by churchianity. But as everything you have said on this thread...you have it backwards.

So God will have mercy on whoever He wills...either now or at judgment. So then no self-righteous believer can determine who God will save or condemn. salvation is not of the pews...it is from above by the will of God.

Then there is the resurrection of Christ. He was raised for OUR (believers) justification...for they who now walk in His resurrection life. And THAT is the blood of Christ flowing in they who walk in the Spirit. So then the blood is the life that Jesus walked in...and walk in us through Him. Walk in Him. We remain in that level of salvation by an ongoing partaking of His life.

So you have neither of these ideas down...but mix everything up into a nonsensical...but very religious sounding...tangle that accomplishes nothing. It destroys both righteousness AND holiness. it makes a lie out of grace.

Hope this brings a little more clarity to your confused ideas. BTW...You're welcome ...

 

[Episkopos]

Its impossible to be "in Christ" and me be in my sin.
Its impossible for Christ to have become my sin on Calvary, and me still have them.
So, what you have said, is theological nonsense.
Its not related to the NT.
Its not related to Paul's Doctrine.
Its just your theological fantasy run amok and for way too long.

My "believing in the blood, as a dead entity"?
What?
Where do you get these crazy ideas?
My guess is from a lot of really bad commentaries and a lot of really bad ministers.

Listen carefully. ...

The blood that Jesus offered on The Cross 2000+ yrs ago, is still saving, redeeming, and justifying, today and tomorrow and till the end of eternity.
Why?
Because Jesus is GOD.
So, that is GOD's Blood that redeems and forgives and atones.
God's BLOOD is ALIVE TODAY. Its just as Alive today as THE CHRIST who shed it for ME 2000 + years ago.

I am "washed in the Blood". I am redeemed by the Blood. I am Justified by the Blood." I am "bought with a price" and that price is the BLOOD of GOD.

You should find out for yourself what this is all about... then we could agree.

That's the Hollywood version. A total fiction. Do you know anything deeper that actually has any real power? or are you forever satisfied with the religious interpretation that passes for the gospel these days.

 

[justbyfaith]

Ok, i skimmed it, but i didn't study it.
I was looking for a way INTO Legalism and i found it there.

"""" 15 Therefore I obey the law because I am in love with Jesus Christ—and I love Him because He first loved me.

16 I do not obey the law in order to be justified. If I did that, I would be obligated to obey the whole law and would be fallen from grace."""


You are preoccupied with the LAW.
This is a problem.
See, you are convinced that God only saved you so that you can then go and keep the law, AS IF this is why God saves people.
Yet..
"Christ has redeemed us from the CURSE OF THE LAW".

Im not certain why, when you read Romans, and it told you that the reason the law is given, is not so that we can trust Christ so that we can keep the law, but in fact, its given to show us our unrighteousness..

Listen, the infection of Legalism causes a person to try to please God AND stay accepted by God, by keeping law and commandments.
All the legalist on any Christian forum or in any Christian pulpit esteem the law, esteem the commandments, and obsess on them, while they occasionally mention Jesus.

You wrote a really nice Thread that after it finished giving Grace a "thumbs up"< then started pointing to KEEPING the LAW as the reason that Christianity exists.

Listen, GRACE and the Blood Atonement is given to bring us back into "1st Adam" position with God.
This was accomplished completely by the 2nd Adam.
The Cross is given so that by this finished work of Jesus, we are above and beyond having to be concerned about something that was only supplied to lead us back into the Place IN GOD where Law and Commandments, are not involved in the RELATIONSHIP.
JUST LIKE the 1st Adam.

So, when you teach "keep the law", you are teaching "falling from Grace", and how to live in bondage to SELF EFFORT.

You are teaching people that God saved them so that they can go and keep what can't save you or give you righteousness.

God did not send Jesus here as Himself to die, so that you can go and live again under the Old Covenant of Laws, Statutes, and Commandments.

He Came here, to deliver us BACK into eternal relationship with HIMSELF.

Paul Kept the commandments and the Law.
He explains in Philippians 3 that this is NOTHING.
All that matters is having Christ's righteousness that brings us into eternal relationship with GOD.
THAT is all that matters.
Discipleship, follows that....but does not complete it, or give it foundation.

Actually, one of my main goals in preaching (which may not be your specific calling) is to preach the law as a schoolmaster to lead men to Christ (Galatians 3:24, Romans 3:20, Psalms 19:7 (kjv)).

Psa 19:7, The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple.

Because of this, I preach the law to Christians so that they can come to the knowledge of sanctification by the Spirit.

The law shows them that they are sinners falling short for as long as they are not sanctified in Christ.

Once they "enter into the Rock" (Isaiah 2:10), they will find themselves abiding in Christ and therefore they will "sin not" (1 John 3:6). As those who are born of God they "do not" and "cannot" sin (1 John 3:9).

Sin is the transgression of the law (1 John 3:4); so then, in not sinning they will not be violating the law.

Because there is no law against the fruit of the Holy Spirit (Galatians 5:22-23); and therefore in bearing the fruit of the Spirit I will not be violating any law. And I have received the Spirit by faith (Galatians 3:14).

Therefore, there is a righteousness apart from the law that is nevertheless attested to by the law and the prophets (Romans 3:21).

The law is important (Isaiah 8:20).

An inverse rendering of Romans 8:7 would have it say: "For the spiritual mind is at peace with God; for it is subject to the law of God, and cannot be otherwise."

In Romans 8:4 we find that walking according to the Spirit means that the righteousness of the law is fulfilled within us.

explain to us : How the blood of Jesus that saved you, Keeps you saved.

The blood of Jesus sanctifies (Hebrews 13:12, Hebrews 10:29) so that we can abide in Him and sin not (1 John 3:6). The one who does the will of God abideth for ever (1 John 2:17).

The blood of Jesus continually cleanseth us from all sin (1 John 1:7)...that is what the Greek verb tense would bear out for us.

He (Jesus) didn't speak in tongues.

Actually, He did (Mark 5:41, Mark 7:34, Mark 15:34).

 

[Behold]

I came with love and a passion to walk with Jesus. Funny how many chopped me up and served me to the fire.
Just on this measure, that is how they respond to our Lord. God bless you

Yes i understand.

 

[Behold]

All this projecting...because you really are trying crying out to find out more about the gospel.

I found out about the Gospel when the Grace of God saved me, thru the Blood of Jesus, long ago.

I invite you to do the same.

 

[Behold]

That's the Hollywood version. A total fiction.

I'll leave it up to you to continue to denounce in Public, the Grace of God = as provided by Jesus's Blood as found On the Cross.

That's your problem to resolve, and its a big one.

 

[FollowHim]

Yes i understand.

There is a proposition I would make at this point.
It is the difference between emotional conclusions and language.

Two people can say the opposite things but mean the same thing because their emotional context and perspectives are different.
A rock climber climbs because of the strength in their hands and feet, security of holds, type of rock, weather conditions, the helmet and ropes, the safety locks, the harness, the other climber holding the rope so there is little slack.
Some routes are simple with no risk. A route can be new or preset. How you describe the level of risk depends on the skill of the climber and the conditions, and the emotional reaction to the challenge.

The truth is the physical reality of the climb is the same for everyone, but how people describe it is very different.

In faith some say God does everything, yet clearly the believer hears and responds. Now the response is real, or else this is just a description of people everywhere. But the importance of the response can become a crucial point or the inevitable situation of God working over which we have no control. Equally the reality in someones life can create a change that flows or because they put effort it, the change happens.
Some express that to see the light, you will never go back to darkness, so those that do never saw the light. Others say seeing the light is only ever a partial reality, which we must respond to, to go deeper to fulfil our calling. Again the difference between ones own experience in Christ can be solid but seeing others profess faith and then fail, suggests it is possible to fall away.

Some have been battered as youngsters with legalism and conformity, where faith to them is this cultural identity, which when broken, is the enemy to Gods love, when finally grace breaks in. To others any structure is life itself, and their life has had no structure at all, and boundaries and rules help and reinforce a structure against chaos and lack of control. For these folk, no boundaries is death, because they have zero view of love and being loved and cared for at anytime in their whole lives.

For all these folk, Jesus is their love, but their ways of showing it is put in different ways. I would suggest therefore people learn more about others before they just dismiss or write them off because of a few sentences on a forum. God is at work in His people, and we need to encourage them to grow in His love and grace, Amen

 

[Behold]

There is a proposition I would make at this point.
It is the difference between emotional conclusions and language.

Two people can say the opposite things but mean the same thing because their emotional context and perspectives are different.
A rock climber climbs because of the strength in their hands and feet, security of holds, type of rock, weather conditions, the helmet and ropes, the safety locks, the harness, the other climber holding the rope so there is little slack.
Some routes are simple with no risk. A route can be new or preset. How you describe the level of risk depends on the skill of the climber and the conditions, and the emotional reaction to the challenge.

The truth is the physical reality of the climb is the same for everyone, but how people describe it is very different.

In faith some say God does everything, yet clearly the believer hears and responds. Now the response is real, or else this is just a description of people everywhere. But the importance of the response can become a crucial point or the inevitable situation of God working over which we have no control. Equally the reality in someones life can create a change that flows or because they put effort it, the change happens.
Some express that to see the light, you will never go back to darkness, so those that do never saw the light. Others say seeing the light is only ever a partial reality, which we must respond to, to go deeper to fulfil our calling. Again the difference between ones own experience in Christ can be solid but seeing others profess faith and then fail, suggests it is possible to fall away.

Some have been battered as youngsters with legalism and conformity, where faith to them is this cultural identity, which when broken, is the enemy to Gods love, when finally grace breaks in. To others any structure is life itself, and their life has had no structure at all, and boundaries and rules help and reinforce a structure against chaos and lack of control. For these folk, no boundaries is death, because they have zero view of love and being loved and cared for at anytime in their whole lives.

For all these folk, Jesus is their love, but their ways of showing it is put in different ways. I would suggest therefore people learn more about others before they just dismiss or write them off because of a few sentences on a forum. God is at work in His people, and we need to encourage them to grow in His love and grace, Amen

I liked the fact that you stated that Legalism is the enemy of God's love.
That is a fact.

In fact, legalism, (the self effort of a person to try to stay accepted by God) is actually the enemy of the Gospel, and a complete denial of "the finished work of Jesus on the Cross".

 

[FollowHim]

I liked the fact that you stated that Legalism is the enemy of God's love.
That is a fact.

In fact, legalism, (the self effort of a person to try to stay accepted by God) is actually the enemy of the Gospel, and a complete denial of "the finished work of Jesus on the Cross".

Legalism is about obeying a set of principles with no mercy, justice or faithfulness.
The statement that implies there is no morality in Christ, because He has brought redemption, is heresy.

And this is the problem with labelling people and being against law and truth.
Once a sinful action has no consequences and can be ignored you have passed from the kingdom of light into the kingdom of darkness.

Paul obeyed love in Christ, slaves to righteousness. If anyone claims to know Jesus and does not understand what being a slave to righteousness is they have not met Him. The emotional reality is hurt and harm destroy people, and for us to partake in such a thing as believers hurts and destroys our consciences and life in Christ.

Now sinning for some is smoking, drinking, watching films, listening to music, reading the news.... etc. But what hurts is stealing, lying about others, sexual immorality, killing people, dishonouring ones parents, enveying others possessions. One is cultural, the other spiritual. I know culturally I am what is often called not christian, but spiritually I am. I remember the fuss over Harry Potter, yet the stories of friendships and fighting an enemy are as old as the hills. Or what above creation in 7 days or creation over periods of time? Again some would say I am not christian, but I believe in truth.

Some do not know the difference between hedonism, being dominated by desires, and walking in the Spirit, having victory in Christ.
It is pointless discussing legalism or freedom without knowing love and a walk with Him. God bless you.

 

[Behold]

And this is the problem with labelling people and being against law and truth.
Once a sinful action has no consequences and can be ignored you have passed from the kingdom of light into the kingdom of darkness.

Paul obeyed love in Christ, slaves to righteousness. If anyone claims to know Jesus and does not understand what being a slave to righteousness is they have not met Him. .

If a person is "sinning and repenting"< and "repenting and confessing", tben they are not a "slave to righteouness", they are a slave to the dominion of the law.

The blood of Jesus has made us righteous, as there is no self effort that can do this.... and because we are "made righteous", we are free to live mentally in the Grace of God that is the peace of God, and when we exit there, > in our mind and in our faith,< then we are able to find we can live the righteous life in perfected discipleship.
Right believing produces right living.

 

[justbyfaith]

Hebrews 12:5-11 tells us that the Lord is a loving Father who disciplines us; while it is also true that as believers in Christ our relationship to the law has changed in that it no longer condemns us.
.
.
.
When Paul speaks of being a slave of righteousness (in Romans 6), he tries to make it clear that he is using language that certain readers will be able to understand but that is not adequate to describe the whole of the matter.

Later on, in Galatians 4, he clarifies what would qualify as the whole of the matter, saying that we are not slaves but sons.

Our relationship to obedience is no longer out of obligation; rather, it comes out of a Father/son relationship in which we desire to behave in such a manner as to honour the family name.

The motivation is love rather than obligation. We are no longer a slave but a son.

 

[Episkopos]

I'll leave it up to you to continue to denounce in Public, the Grace of God = as provided by Jesus's Blood as found On the Cross.

That's your problem to resolve, and its a big one.

That's your issue. To be against the Spirit and treating grace like it was something that came out of a tap. The penalty for disrespecting grace is worse than breaking the law. So you have it dead wrong about grace.

Learn humility and the fear of the Lord.

The blood of Jesus is NOT to make you have the good life on earth. Your POV is entirely selfish. Instead go to the cross and be crucified with Jesus in order to walk in His power...His perfection in the flesh through grace.

 

[Behold]

The blood of Jesus is NOT to make you have the good life on earth. Your POV is entirely selfish. Instead go to the cross and be crucified with Jesus in order to walk in His power...His perfection in the flesh through grace.

Yes, you are now teaching my Threads.
As i told you that you would.
Good for you.
You've learned something.
Next you'll be telling us that we always have peace with God, through the one time sacrifice of Jesus, and we are to live in this position of Grace, free from the bondage of self effort and sin consciousness.

Good for you.
Thank you for reading me.

 

[FollowHim]

If a person is "sinning and repenting"< and "repenting and confessing", tben they are not a "slave to righteouness", they are a slave to the dominion of the law.

The blood of Jesus has made us righteous, as there is no self effort that can do this.... and because we are "made righteous", we are free to live mentally in the Grace of God that is the peace of God, and when we exit there, > in our mind and in our faith,< then we are able to find we can live the righteous life in perfected discipleship.
Right believing produces right living.

Right believing produces right living

In a sense I agree with you. But emotional language of the heart means a belief for one individual is a theoretical nice poetry, and to another the very essence of who they are. I spoke to one member traditional statements of faith, and they accused me of just repeating empty words which I had learnt. Now who is the listener to say whether I am saying foundational glory to God and His reality, or just church dogma.

What you discover is ones heart lifts exaltation to God.
It is like the phrase "Jesus loves me". It can be a superficial pat on the head, or the cross, pain, blood, sacrifice, nothing held back, dedication, conviction, leading the redeemed people of God to victory over sin and death.

In romans 6 Paul argues we are dead to sin, because we have identified to the cross and Jesus and His atonement.

11 In the same way, count yourselves dead to sin but alive to God in Christ Jesus.
Rom 6:11

This is not a wishful aspiration but a spiritual reality. Now that is quite a statement, considering how many believers actually believe to the day they die they are subjugated to sin. Paul does not believe this. I have mentioned this to some believers, and they run like it is heresy.
I think it is because they are happy in their sins and insecurity and faith is another safety net to cuddle and reassure them everything is ok.

Anything that suggests where they are should shift, is resisted like it is the worst proposition ever.
What I am working on is how you bring the light into such a situation, where Jesus overcomes their insecurity and lifts them up to the maturity and life He desires that they might experience. God bless you

 

[Behold]

Right believing produces right living

In a sense I agree with you. But emotional language of the heart means a belief for one individual is a theoretical nice poetry, and to another the very essence of who they are. I spoke to one member traditional statements of faith, and they accused me of just repeating empty words which I had learnt. Now who is the listener to say whether I am saying foundational glory to God and His reality, or just church dogma.

What you discover is ones heart lifts exaltation to God.
It is like the phrase "Jesus loves me". It can be a superficial pat on the head, or the cross, pain, blood, sacrifice, nothing held back, dedication, conviction, leading the redeemed people of God to victory over sin and death.

In romans 6 Paul argues we are dead to sin, because we have identified to the cross and Jesus and His atonement.

11 In the same way, count yourselves dead to sin but alive to God in Christ Jesus.
Rom 6:11

This is not a wishful aspiration but a spiritual reality. Now that is quite a statement, considering how many believers actually believe to the day they die they are subjugated to sin. Paul does not believe this. I have mentioned this to some believers, and they run like it is heresy.
I think it is because they are happy in their sins and insecurity and faith is another safety net to cuddle and reassure them everything is ok.

Anything that suggests where they are should shift, is resisted like it is the worst proposition ever.
What I am working on is how you bring the light into such a situation, where Jesus overcomes their insecurity and lifts them up to the maturity and life He desires that they might experience. God bless you

When you deal with a person on a Fourm who can't stand the idea that God has made them as Righteous as Himself, then you are dealing with .

1.) A religious person who is not born again

2.) A very religious christian who is not going to listen, as their faith is not in Christ, but its in themselves to try to "stay saved" by their self effort.

In both cases, they will bite you like a mad dog if you try to Give Jesus all the Credit due Him alone for saving us and keeping us saved, and try to get them to SEE THIS for themselves.
Expect it, as these people have a very religious - hateful spirit.
They can't argue their lack of faith in Christ without proving they don't have any, and they know this, so, all that is left is for them to do is attack you personally, by lying.