The wrong Cross

[Behold]

Paul taught that it was meaningless dung to not murder? Or did Paul teach the spirit of the law and men then saw Gods holy standard and then men realized that it was impossible for men? Because most people will outwardly keep the law to not murder for all of their lives and it is not dung to do so, but every person will have anger in their heart sometime.

Paul was after winning Christ. He spoke of a higher calling that he pressed forward toward. He was after the prize - he wanted to abide/remain in Christ, which is to not sin at ALL. He counted all his own efforts as dung compared to THAT prize. He didnt try to mix the right that man can do with the righteousness/holiness of God.

But you certainly arent going to ever abide in Christ, walking in the Spirit, by circumventing, or getting rid of, the law of God. Do you think Jesus was trying to get rid of the law of God when He taught that anger in your heart is to have already murdered? No, He wasn't trying to do away with Gods law. A man who doesnt murder outwardly is doing the righteousness that a man can do. To not even murder in your heart, EVER, is not within a mans power but is only possible when and if he walks in the Spirit in holiness.

Paul wasn't saying one must stop trying to not murder men in order to not murder men. He wasnt saying that in order to not commit adultery one must stop trying to not commit adultery.

It isnt bad to not shoot and kill someone. But it's not holiness unless you dont even do it in your heart, which is impossible for men. So Paul speaks of the higher calling, a walk in holiness.

"winning Christ"...
I think you have a puzzling idea, about this concept.
Winning Christ is not pursued by commandment keeping or law keeping.
We are not more like God the more we keep the commandments.
I can promise you that Heaven will be full of people that were not good at keeping the commandments, and hell will be full of people that spent their lives worrying about keeping them, and kept them, mostly.

If possible, you should read my previous Threads that discuss how to stop repenting and confessing and failing as a Christian.

This Thread is actually about that topic, but legalist came to it and turned it into their typical legalistic self saving rabbit trail.

See, its one thing to talk about the need to be more "Christ-like", but if you dont know how to do it, then all talk about statues, the Old Testament commandments, and similar, is just talk.
Most believers have a warped and broken Christianity.
I can show you how to cure the wrong believing which has ruined most believer's Christianity.

 

[justbyfaith]

Sin takes advantage of the law in order to produce in you all manner of concupiscence (Romans 7:8). Without the law the element of sin is dead.

The motions of sins, that bring forth unto death, are by the law (Romans 7:5).

If you can get a hold of these truths, it will transform your life.

Wet Paint Principle (Freedom)

 

[Behold]

It may surprise you that many people get on these kinds of forums while being high as a kite, drunk, and in every other unbalanced state imaginable. We are to be filled with the Spirit...not drunk with wine.

So it may help you to realize this. Don't take every crackpot theory seriously. Especially a theory that is meant to lower grace...actually trample it....to where there is no possibility for anything holy.
So the very opposite is true.
People who deal unrighteously with grace are due for the most severe punishment. And they who consider themselves as teachers of said unrighteousness...well that is the worst possible scenario of all.

.

I dont take you seriously, so, im abiding by your viewpoint as you stated.

You are the very person who does not believe that the same blood of Jesus that saves, is the same blood of Jesus that keeps you saved.

So, until you come to the place where your own theology does not include you trying to do the work of Christ for yourself, then, you are talking to yourself, regarding all comments about heresy, fringe, and worse, that you pointed at me.
And you remember this, .. No weapon formed against me shall prosper,... especially one formed by a Legalist, a heretic, or a liar.

You DO NOT Give Jesus THE Christ all credit due HIM for saving and keeping someone saved.
YOU< will teach that there is some part of SELF EFFORT involved in Salvation, including law keeping, lifestyle, and commandment keeping, that you will teach again, is a PART of "salvation".

YOUR Salvation theology looks like this.

The Cross + Self Effort

That is LEGALISM.
Your gospel, is the gospel of works.
Paul defines this person as "fallen from Grace".
So, you are the one who needs to be concerned about spiritual comeuppance as related to offending God's Grace in Public.
And you remember that i told you that... while you keep reading my posts and Threads that only Give the Cross, and the Blood of Jesus credit for Salvation, and never ever do i include Self effort, or commandments, or law.

Keep that in your mind.

 

[Behold]

Sin takes advantage of the law in order to produce in you all manner of concupiscence (Romans 7:8). Without the law the element of sin is dead.
The motions of sins, that bring forth unto death, are by the law (Romans 7:5).
If you can get a hold of these truths, it will transform your life.

Your bible version is going to make your "link", difficult to follow, if the link uses the same bible version.
You might want to get a better version.
Also, if i might make a request.
Would it be possible for you to not use other people's words and instead learn how to think for yourself and teach from your own knowledge base, instead of always cutting and pasting the work of other people?

 

[Behold]

-----

 

[justbyfaith]

Your bible version is going to make your "link", difficult to follow, if the link uses the same bible version.
You might want to get a better version.
Also, if i might make a request.
Would it be possible for you to not use other people's words and instead learn how to think for yourself and teach from your own knowledge base, instead of always cutting and pasting the work of other people?

Victor Jedidiah is a pen name of mine.

So Wet Paint Principle (Freedom) is my work.

Also, I tend to go by the kjv; but will simply reference a verse or passage if the Bible that is utilized by this message board does not contradict it.

 

[Behold]

Your proposition is victory over sin comes from belief once you are saved it can never be lost.

No,
that is that is not the core of what i teach here, or anywhere.
So, YOUR problem, is that you are not following my theology closely, and so, you are confused.

Here is Paul's theology, that i teach.
By coming to understand who you are in Christ, in God's Perspective, you will be able to find your mental and spiritual home in God's Grace.
So, you have to start there, and the beginning..... and you get there, by living here. Hebrews 13:9

 

[Behold]

Victor Jedidiah is a pen name of mine.

So Wet Paint Principle (Freedom) is my work.

Also, I tend to go by the kjv; but will simply reference a verse or passage if the Bible that is utilized by this message board does not contradict it.

You should strive for a way to make the understanding clear.
Posting someone else's work is not the best you can do.

If this "link" is your own work, your thoughts, then post it.

 

[Behold]

Time for your meds. Ok Get along to bed now.

You still miss the point. In Christ there is no sin. It is finished. It is men who sit there trying to boast of How good they are, when it was Christ who made us good. It doesnt matter how "good" you think you are, if not for Gods grace you would die. But how christians love to condemn those who dont live up to there standards. It is a good thing we are not judged by the standards men set, if it where so, wed all be dead in our sins.

On a "christian" forum, you will find that Legalism is the Cross for most.
So, if you preach Jesus on the Cross, you are going to offend those who have kicked Him off.
Nothing new.

 

[Behold]

I am interested in change in the heart, transformation, a new creation, being real, knowing Jesus daily, in our morning, our afternoon and our evening. [/QUOTE]

I appreciate that you are looking for spiritual fruit.
If you really want to look for it, then notice who is trying to keep themselves saved, as you wont find any fruit there, you'll just find a lot of arguing about commandments, law, the OLD TESTAMENT, and similar unrelated to the Gospel of Grace, Legalistic theology.

 

[Behold]

There is a lot more to "sin" than all the things you seem to have issues with. Jesus said you just need to think and you have sinned, I guess you dont think a lot. Nice to add teh big ones make you look so good,

You need to realize that Salvation, through the Grace of God

Is thinking sin? This is a dangerous boundary to cross. Sin is not our enemy,

Your enemy is :

1. The devil

2. Self righteousness

3. The "curse of the Law"

 

[justbyfaith]

If this "link" is your own work, your thoughts, then post it.

Wet Paint Principle (Freedom)

 

[Episkopos]

On a "christian" forum, you will find that Legalism is the Cross for most.
So, if you preach Jesus on the Cross, you are going to offend those who have kicked Him off.
Nothing new.

On a real Christian forum Jesus is resurrected from the dead in spite of every effort to keep Him on the cross. So Jesus wasn't kicked off the cross...He is risen!

And you're position is a dead one.

The time of the cross for us is now. To carry in our bodies the death of Christ so that we can walk in His life.

 

[Episkopos]

You are the very person who does not believe that the same blood of Jesus that saves, is the same blood of Jesus that keeps you saved.

You are believing in the blood as a dead entity. But the life is in the blood. So you are still walking in your own flesh power..in sin..but deceived that because you believe in a certain dogma of death...that somehow that makes you saved IN your sins.

 

[FollowHim]

I appreciate that you are looking for spiritual fruit.
If you really want to look for it, then notice who is trying to keep themselves saved, as you wont find any fruit there, you'll just find a lot of arguing about commandments, law, the OLD TESTAMENT, and similar unrelated to the Gospel of Grace, Legalistic theology.

Do you believe you change things?
What you write you then deny, so not really a together message lol

 

[Behold]

Wet Paint Principle (Freedom)

Ok, i skimmed it, but i didn't study it.
I was looking for a way INTO Legalism and i found it there.

"""" 15 Therefore I obey the law because I am in love with Jesus Christ—and I love Him because He first loved me.

16 I do not obey the law in order to be justified. If I did that, I would be obligated to obey the whole law and would be fallen from grace."""


You are preoccupied with the LAW.
This is a problem.
See, you are convinced that God only saved you so that you can then go and keep the law, AS IF this is why God saves people.
Yet..
"Christ has redeemed us from the CURSE OF THE LAW".

Im not certain why, when you read Romans, and it told you that the reason the law is given, is not so that we can trust Christ so that we can keep the law, but in fact, its given to show us our unrighteousness..

Listen, the infection of Legalism causes a person to try to please God AND stay accepted by God, by keeping law and commandments.
All the legalist on any Christian forum or in any Christian pulpit esteem the law, esteem the commandments, and obsess on them, while they occasionally mention Jesus.

You wrote a really nice Thread that after it finished giving Grace a "thumbs up"< then started pointing to KEEPING the LAW as the reason that Christianity exists.

Listen, GRACE and the Blood Atonement is given to bring us back into "1st Adam" position with God.
This was accomplished completely by the 2nd Adam.
The Cross is given so that by this finished work of Jesus, we are above and beyond having to be concerned about something that was only supplied to lead us back into the Place IN GOD where Law and Commandments, are not involved in the RELATIONSHIP.
JUST LIKE the 1st Adam.

So, when you teach "keep the law", you are teaching "falling from Grace", and how to live in bondage to SELF EFFORT.

You are teaching people that God saved them so that they can go and keep what can't save you or give you righteousness.

God did not send Jesus here as Himself to die, so that you can go and live again under the Old Covenant of Laws, Statutes, and Commandments.

He Came here, to deliver us BACK into eternal relationship with HIMSELF.

Paul Kept the commandments and the Law.
He explains in Philippians 3 that this is NOTHING.
All that matters is having Christ's righteousness that brings us into eternal relationship with GOD.
THAT is all that matters.
Discipleship, follows that....but does not complete it, or give it foundation.

 

[FollowHim]

No,
that is that is not the core of what i teach here, or anywhere.
So, YOUR problem, is that you are not following my theology closely, and so, you are confused.

Here is Paul's theology, that i teach.
By coming to understand who you are in Christ, in God's Perspective, you will be able to find your mental and spiritual home in God's Grace.
So, you have to start there, and the beginning..... and you get there, by living here. Hebrews 13:9

I have zero problems because nothing hangs together. If you write belief changes us, that is what you believe.

If I believe then I am changed and as I should be. If my beliefs are slightly different then I am lost.

I know many who follow this legalistic belief system, a belief exam for the Holy Spirit to make you eternal or leave you mortal. I wonder if you have a cram book to revise before the exam.....

 

[FollowHim]

Some of these people believe in retrospective unbelief. I meet Jesus and are saved, amen. Later I learn I need to abide to walk the narrow path or face judgement. Oops now I am lost, even though I was saved. Oops, I am really still saved because it cannot be lost, even if I believe it can be.

This is a rediculous belief system, as it denies itself by its own logic.....

 

[Behold]

And you're position is a dead one.

.

You can't even define my position. You have no knowledge of my position.
All you can do is harp on your one pride filled string of aggressive theological misunderstanding, of my position.

But i'll give you an opportunity to provide all of us here some of your deep theological understanding.
You'd like to do that, right?

Episkopos, ... explain to us : How the blood of Jesus that saved you, Keeps you saved.

Take your time, as if you can get this right, you are indeed learning some things here recently.

Here is the request one more time..... Explain how the blood of Jesus that saved you, keeps you saved.

 

[Behold]

I have zero problems because nothing hangs together. If you write belief changes us, that is what you believe.
If I believe then I am changed and as I should be. If my beliefs are slightly different then I am lost.
I know many who follow this legalistic belief system, a belief exam for the Holy Spirit to make you eternal or leave you mortal. I wonder if you have a cram book to revise before the exam.....

Its unfortunate that we , you and i, are the victims of a cultural verbal barrier that is not allowing us to connect our ideas regarding our theology, perfectly.