Three (3) Advents?

[Giuliano]

No...you are being silly, and redundant.

On the contrary, Jesus did not say "You must be born again, and again, and again." But only stated what should be obvious, that just as Nicodemus had been born of water, he must be also be "born again" (just once more).

Look at how you read: "Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God."

Nicodemus understood what Jesus said. He had been testing Jesus to see if he was indeed Messiah. Nicodemus understood these things better than many Christians do today; and he became a follower of Jesus after this conversation.

How many "born again" Christians can move like Ezekiel, like the wind? Remember now too that Ezekiel was called "son of man." He could move about in the Spirit without needing to take his physical body with him.

8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

Can most Christians who call themselves "born again" move about like that? Are they ever caught up to Paradise or the third Heaven? Do they sit in heavenly places?

There is a "joking" around in John 3. Nicodemus understood these things fairly well. He wanted to see if Jesus did. Finally Jesus said, "Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things? Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness." After that, Nicodemus did accept his witness.

That conversation starts off with Nicodemus joking around. "Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him." No one on the Sanhedrin would ever say such a thing seriously. Nicodemus was testing Jesus to see if he was vain and could be affected by flattery. Jesus could not be flattered and changed the subject.

I tell you that a man (who is already a man) cannot enter the kingdom unless he is born of the water and then of the Spirit too.

 

[101G]

That is the flesh talking, the thinking of men.

Flesh, blood, and bone are all of the world. God is spirit. Therefore, it is as He (and you) say, "a spirit hath not flesh and bones." --God has not bones. But here you are saying that bones can inherit the kingdom, when it is impossible!

Also, he did not say "As you have seen him go in the flesh" --you are adding that part in you own mind.

But since you know that the spirit could not be seen, and that He went to the Father whom is spirit, you should also know that all that was seen was Him leaving. What was not seen then was Him arriving into the presence of the Father. In other words, even though the witnesses did not see the greater half of what had occurred, it was still correct to say, "in like manner", for the like manner was the manner of the Father...and not of the flesh.

To say the like manner was in the manner of what was seen in the flesh, is to say there was no ascension, and that the scriptures that say that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God is a lie--that God lied. Which leaves you saying (in your own words) that Jesus is a fraud and God is a liar. And yet there is no need to do so...for the "like manner" is indeed the like manner of God, and not of men...and you have simply assumed incorrectly.

ERROR Scott, flesh and bone glorified is of the world to come, NO BLOOD, did you not read? our inheritance in Christ is to be, PARTAKER of the divine NATURE, not spirit beings but live by the Spirit power..

Therefore, it is as He (and you) say, "a spirit hath not flesh and bones." --God has not bones. But here you are saying that bones can inherit the kingdom, when it is impossible!

that's where you fail, all things are possible with God. and you see you didn't finish the quote, "a spirit hath not flesh and bones." listen, you left out the important part, Luke 24:39 "Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have". see Scott get the whole TRUTH, not half of it, but all of the truth. see, you left out "as ye see me have". that was a big mistake on your part.

But since you know that the spirit could not be seen, and that He went to the Father whom is spirit, you should also know that all that was seen was Him leaving.

yes, in a glorified body of flesh and bones.... thanks...

What was not seen then was Him arriving into the presence of the Father. In other words, even though the witnesses did not see the greater half of what had occurred, it was still correct to say, "in like manner", for the like manner was the manner of the Father...and not of the flesh.

another ERROR on your Part. that's why we have the revelation, the record of this event in both testament. OT,
Dan 7:9 I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire.
Dan 7:10 A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened.
Dan 7:11 I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame.
Dan 7:12 As concerning the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away: yet their lives were prolonged for a season and time.
Dan 7:13 I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him.
Dan 7:14 And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.

I'm suprise of you scott, not knowing about" VISIONS". now read the Book of Revelation, and see who the Ancient of days is, might schock you.lol. ... oh well.

I see you have no clue who the NEW MAN is. but read Rev chapter 5.

now your last entry,

To say the like manner was in the manner of what was seen in the flesh, is to say there was no ascension, and that the scriptures that say that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God is a lie--that God lied. Which leaves you saying (in your own words) that Jesus is a fraud and God is a liar. And yet there is no need to do so...for the "like manner" is indeed the like manner of God, and not of men...and you have simply assumed incorrectly.

who said flesh and blood? not I you better go back and check my posts. I said "NO BLOOD", only Flesh and bone, are you reading my posts?. oh well
but in "like manner was in the manner of what was seen in the flesh", which is now in Heaven, see Dan 7:13 above....

Now to wake you up, as said, who is the the Ancient of days, read Dan 7:9-11, and then READ Rev 1:12-15.

and to be sure that God inherited flesh and bone, scripture,
Rev 22:2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.
Rev 22:3 And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him:
Rev 22:4 And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads". BINGO again. what did our Lord say again? for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.

the scriptures cannot get any plainer that that. as saod don't argue with me, search the scriptures. .......
PICJAG

 

[bbyrd009]

How absurd!

Sorry if you have been mislead, but three "advents" by definition would be impossible. First the flesh, then the spirit--that's all. There is no third element or arrival.

this is what happens when you call papists Christians i guess, and allow them into your woodpile

 

[ScottA]

Look at how you read: "Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God."

Nicodemus understood what Jesus said. He had been testing Jesus to see if he was indeed Messiah. Nicodemus understood these things better than many Christians do today; and he became a follower of Jesus after this conversation.

How many "born again" Christians can move like Ezekiel, like the wind? Remember now too that Ezekiel was called "son of man." He could move about in the Spirit without needing to take his physical body with him.

8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

Can most Christians who call themselves "born again" move about like that? Are they ever caught up to Paradise or the third Heaven? Do they sit in heavenly places?

There is a "joking" around in John 3. Nicodemus understood these things fairly well. He wanted to see if Jesus did. Finally Jesus said, "Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things? Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness." After that, Nicodemus did accept his witness.

That conversation starts off with Nicodemus joking around. "Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him." No one on the Sanhedrin would ever say such a thing seriously. Nicodemus was testing Jesus to see if he was vain and could be affected by flattery. Jesus could not be flattered and changed the subject.

I tell you that a man (who is already a man) cannot enter the kingdom unless he is born of the water and then of the Spirit too.

It is you who have a peculiar way of read the passage.

Nicodemus certainly was not "joking" to come out at night in secret to speak to Jesus; and according to Jesus, no, he did not understand the issue at all. So, no, you are wrong on many levels.

As for Ezekiel, where is it written that he "moved like the wind?"

As for being "caught up", yes.

As for "sitting in heavenly places", yes.

 

[bbyrd009]

"its like this
and like that and
like this
and uh..."
jesus already with this forum narf
"certainly"

 

[Giuliano]

It is you who have a peculiar way of read the passage.

Nicodemus certainly was not "joking" to come out at night in secret to speak to Jesus; and according to Jesus, no, he did not understand the issue at all. So, no, you are wrong on many levels.

Why would say then that he thought Jesus had to be from God because of the miracles? I tell you no Jew acquainted with the Torah would ever have made that statement and meant it; and Jesus knew he was being tested. Jesus knew Nicodemus was testing him and wasn't serious, so Jesus was joking a little back. I find it amusing myself. "Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?" That was not an insult. It was a jest. Rabbis enjoy such witty exchanges at times. Of course Nicodemus understood those things.

As for Ezekiel, where is it written that he "moved like the wind?"

It doesn't say that using those words in "English"; but here are some examples:

Ezekiel 3:12 Then the spirit took me up, and I heard behind me a voice of a great rushing, saying, Blessed be the glory of the Lord from his place.

Ezekiel 3:14 So the spirit lifted me up, and took me away, and I went in bitterness, in the heat of my spirit; but the hand of the Lord was strong upon me.

Ezekiel 37:1 The hand of the Lord was upon me, and carried me out in the spirit of the Lord, and set me down in the midst of the valley which was full of bones,

Ezekiel 8:3 And he put forth the form of an hand, and took me by a lock of mine head; and the spirit lifted me up between the earth and the heaven, and brought me in the visions of God to Jerusalem, to the door of the inner gate that looketh toward the north; where was the seat of the image of jealousy, which provoketh to jealousy.

The word in Hebrew is ruach which also means "wind".

As for being "caught up", yes.

As for "sitting in heavenly places", yes.

I could be mistaken, but I frankly must wonder if you ever did this. You could be saying that because you think you ought to. Jesus said he had seen things for himself. "We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness." I doubt you could honestly say you have seen things yourself from heavenly places. If you have, you're more than welcome to tell us some of the things you have seen unless you saw or heard things "unlawful" to tell about.

 

[Naomi25]

How absurd!

Sorry if you have been mislead, but three "advents" by definition would be impossible. First the flesh, then the spirit--that's all. There is no third element or arrival.

Goodness yes! How absurd to believe what scripture tells us. Foolish us.
Not that you have it at all right in saying we believe in a ''3 advent" coming, anyway. Christ's spiritual presence with us now? How he 'never leaves nor forsakes us'...is clearly in the presence and work of the Holy Spirit. How often did Christ tell his disciples that he was sending this 'helper'? And what was the Helper for?

But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things and bring to your remembrance all that I have said to you. Peace I leave with you; my peace I give to you. Not as the world gives do I give to you. Let not your hearts be troubled, neither let them be afraid. -John 14:26–27

He brings to remembrance all Christ has said. He points to Christ. We also know he dwells in us, and that:

Nevertheless, I tell you the truth: it is to your advantage that I go away, for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you. But if I go, I will send him to you. - John 16:7

So....for us to be receiving and benefiting from the Holy Spirit, which is, you know, spirit, Christ must 'go away'. Now, of course that means that in a very real way Christ IS still with us, because he and the Spirit are one, just as he and the Father are one. But still...not an advent.

However, the bible clearly speaks of us seeing Christ again. Not experiencing him again...seeing.

but when the perfect comes, the partial will pass away.....For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I have been fully known. - 1 Corinthians 13:10,12

And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and will take you to myself, that where I am you may be also. - John 14:3

Jesus said to him, “If it is my will that he remain until I come, what is that to you? You follow me!” - John 21:22

Now concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered together to him, we ask you, brothers, - 2 Thess 2:1


We both know I could go on. But I don't really need to. Even if you argue that Christ is only returning spiritually, you must still explain why these verses tell us we will see him face to face and be gathered to him. When we accept him spiritually do we see his face? Are we all gathered to where he is? No. There is a promised time ahead where that event will take place. I don't care if you want to call it something else. But the bible clearly teaches it. Laugh at the absurdity if you like, but you must understand that for those of us who can clearly read scripture...and it is clear, I'm sorry....your laughter or your choice of words is hardly going to dent the promises we have from our Lord.

 

[Earburner]

I see no Biblical references given for these views. I ask you why Ezekiel was called "Son of Man" -- and he could move like the wind too. Ah, could he have been born of the Spirit?

No one could be "born of the Spirit" until the shedding of the Blood of Christ.

Prior to the Sacrifice of Jesus, there was the forgiveness of sins, but that was only an annual basis, to be repeated again and again through animal sacrifice. Though they obtained forgiveness for their sins, their sins remained, but were never remissed/removed.

The Removal of sins, was ONLY by the Blood of Christ.
Therefore, the removal of one's sins, through faith in the Blood of Christ, is the ONLY way that sin is removed!
If sin is NOT removed by faith in the Blood of Christ, the Holy Spirit of God will not and cannot abide in a believer permanently, which is to say that they are/were NOT "born again".

 

[Giuliano]

No one could be "born of the Spirit" until the shedding of the Blood of Christ.

Prior to the Sacrifice of Jesus, there was the forgiveness of sins, but that was only an annual basis, to be repeated again and again through animal sacrifice. Though they obtained forgiveness for their sins, their sins remained, but were never remissed/removed.

The Removal of sins, was ONLY by the Blood of Christ.
Therefore, the removal of one's sins, through faith in the Blood of Christ, is the ONLY way that sin is removed!
If sin is NOT removed by faith in the Blood of Christ, the Holy Spirit of God will not and cannot abide in a believer permanently, which is to say that they are/were NOT "born again".

This may be a fine proclamation of what you believe; but I see no Scriptures offered as a basis for them. Why was Ezekiel who could move like the wind also called son of man? Can you move like the wind the way Ezekiel did? Jesus said those born of the Spirit could move that way.

Ezekiel disagrees with you on another point.

Ezekiel 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.
21 But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die.
22 All his transgressions that he hath committed, they shall not be mentioned unto him: in his righteousness that he hath done he shall live.

 

[ScottA]

Why would say then that he thought Jesus had to be from God because of the miracles? I tell you no Jew acquainted with the Torah would ever have made that statement and meant it; and Jesus knew he was being tested. Jesus knew Nicodemus was testing him and wasn't serious, so Jesus was joking a little back. I find it amusing myself. "Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?" That was not an insult. It was a jest. Rabbis enjoy such witty exchanges at times. Of course Nicodemus understood those things.

No Jew acquainted with the word of God would believe in the miracles of God? That's crazy. And you making a Monty Python like joke out of the whole thing is crazy too.

It doesn't say that using those words in "English"; but here are some examples:

Ezekiel 3:12 Then the spirit took me up, and I heard behind me a voice of a great rushing, saying, Blessed be the glory of the Lord from his place.

Ezekiel 3:14 So the spirit lifted me up, and took me away, and I went in bitterness, in the heat of my spirit; but the hand of the Lord was strong upon me.

Ezekiel 37:1 The hand of the Lord was upon me, and carried me out in the spirit of the Lord, and set me down in the midst of the valley which was full of bones,

Ezekiel 8:3 And he put forth the form of an hand, and took me by a lock of mine head; and the spirit lifted me up between the earth and the heaven, and brought me in the visions of God to Jerusalem, to the door of the inner gate that looketh toward the north; where was the seat of the image of jealousy, which provoketh to jealousy.

The word in Hebrew is ruach which also means "wind".

So what--is God not the same yesterday, today, and forever?

[QUOTE}As for being "caught up", yes.

As for "sitting in heavenly places", yes.

I could be mistaken, but I frankly must wonder if you ever did this. You could be saying that because you think you ought to. Jesus said he had seen things for himself. "We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness." I doubt you could honestly say you have seen things yourself from heavenly places. If you have, you're more than welcome to tell us some of the things you have seen unless you saw or heard things "unlawful" to tell about.

I have posted here over 5000 times and given my testimony including such things many times. But why do you doubt such things that are clearly evident already in the scriptures?

 

[ScottA]

Goodness yes! How absurd to believe what scripture tells us. Foolish us.
Not that you have it at all right in saying we believe in a ''3 advent" coming, anyway. Christ's spiritual presence with us now? How he 'never leaves nor forsakes us'...is clearly in the presence and work of the Holy Spirit. How often did Christ tell his disciples that he was sending this 'helper'? And what was the Helper for?

But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things and bring to your remembrance all that I have said to you. Peace I leave with you; my peace I give to you. Not as the world gives do I give to you. Let not your hearts be troubled, neither let them be afraid. -John 14:26–27

He brings to remembrance all Christ has said. He points to Christ. We also know he dwells in us, and that:

Nevertheless, I tell you the truth: it is to your advantage that I go away, for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you. But if I go, I will send him to you. - John 16:7

So....for us to be receiving and benefiting from the Holy Spirit, which is, you know, spirit, Christ must 'go away'. Now, of course that means that in a very real way Christ IS still with us, because he and the Spirit are one, just as he and the Father are one. But still...not an advent.

However, the bible clearly speaks of us seeing Christ again. Not experiencing him again...seeing.

but when the perfect comes, the partial will pass away.....For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I have been fully known. - 1 Corinthians 13:10,12

And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and will take you to myself, that where I am you may be also. - John 14:3

Jesus said to him, “If it is my will that he remain until I come, what is that to you? You follow me!” - John 21:22

Now concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered together to him, we ask you, brothers, - 2 Thess 2:1


We both know I could go on. But I don't really need to. Even if you argue that Christ is only returning spiritually, you must still explain why these verses tell us we will see him face to face and be gathered to him. When we accept him spiritually do we see his face? Are we all gathered to where he is? No. There is a promised time ahead where that event will take place. I don't care if you want to call it something else. But the bible clearly teaches it. Laugh at the absurdity if you like, but you must understand that for those of us who can clearly read scripture...and it is clear, I'm sorry....your laughter or your choice of words is hardly going to dent the promises we have from our Lord.

You have read the words, but not taken all to heart. There are two things wrong with what you have said here:

1. If Jesus went to the Father, and if anyone can say that He is with or in them and them in He...then He has both gone and also returned again. By definition that is a [second] advent. By Jesus' own definition, it is His final advent (John 14:3).

2. John explained that we do not see Him until we are "like Him" (1 John 3:2). By no coincidence, those who do not see Him are here now arguing for the flesh as if it were the glory of the Father. It's not.​

 

[Naomi25]

You have read the words, but not taken all to heart.

It is most easy to say this, is it not, about pretty much anything? I can say it back to you with just as much ease. It doesn't really answer the question, however. Which is one of the reasons it is best to look at the preponderance of the verses that speak on the topic and see where they point, what they add up to. Clearly you believe that evidence points only to a spiritual return of Christ. I would say it overwhelmingly points to a physical one. And, considering orthodoxy is behind me, it seems to me that anyone claiming the 'absurd' label needs to be the one bearing the onus of proof.

There are two things wrong with what you have said here:

1. If Jesus went to the Father, and if anyone can say that He is with or in them and them in He...then He has both gone and also returned again. By definition that is a [second] advent. By Jesus' own definition, it is His final advent (John 14:3).
​

But if we have his promise to come again physically, has indeed that promise been fulfilled? Have we seen face to face, has he gathered us to him? If Christ promises his continued presence in the work and indwelling of the Holy Spirit, then do we not see that as a fulfillment?
Here's where I see it standing. You may say Christ did NOT promise to return to us physically, to gather us to him, but I see that as a direct contradiction of scripture. Or you may say that Christ himself dwells within us spiritually, however then I believe you must try and explain why we have the spirit of Christ AND the Holy Spirit dwelling within us...something I think you'll struggle to find in scripture, especially since Christ tells us he must depart before the HS can come. This also leaves the physical promises in limbo...another problem.
Either way you slice it, you're left with questions or contradictions that is not found in Gods word.
What we DO find in God's word in Christ's first 'advent', his promise to send the Holy Spirit on his physical departure, and his promise to return again, physically, at the end of this age; his second 'advent'. He is indeed with us now spiritually, as the HS is part of the Trinity and we know the HS points us to the life, works and words of Christ.
So, I suppose when it comes down to it, I almost agree with you; there is no 'three advents'.

2. John explained that we do not see Him until we are "like Him" (1 John 3:2). By no coincidence, those who do not see Him are here now arguing for the flesh as if it were the glory of the Father. It's not.

Wait...are you suggesting that we here now who do not 'see' Christ do not because we are not 'like him'...as in, we cling too tightly to the flesh and sin? Because, oh boy, talk about 'that's not what that verse is talking about'....

Beloved, we are God's children now, and what we will be has not yet appeared; but we know that when he appears we shall be like him, because we shall see him as he is. -1 John 3:2

John is speaking about when Christ "appears". Not when "we get ourselves together" and then we get to see him.
The upshot? When Jesus Christ returns to this earth (John 16:7); in that glorious moment we shall be gathered to him (2 Thess 2:1), we shall see him (1 John 3:2) and we shall be given new bodies that are sinless (1 Cor 15:52)...then we will be like him!

 

[Earburner]

1. This may be a fine proclamation of what you believe; but I see no Scriptures offered as a basis for them.
2. Why was Ezekiel who could move like the wind also called son of man?
3. Can you move like the wind the way Ezekiel did? 4. Jesus said those born of the Spirit could move that way.

5. Ezekiel disagrees with you on another point.

• Ezekiel 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die.
• > John 3:18 Apart from the Righteousness of God, all are "condemned already".

• The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son:
• > KJV- Gen. 2:7- man became a living soul, he didn't get/recieve one!
• the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him,
• > The only righteousness of the righteous (the Holy Spirit of Christ) shall be upon him. Mat. 5:20, Rom. 8:9
• and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him. John 3:18, Rom. 8:9

21 But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die.
22 All his transgressions that he hath committed, they shall not be mentioned unto him: in his righteousness that he hath done he shall live.
> Repentance towards God is the only way one is delivered from their sins and into the Righteousness of God
Repentance from sin, delivers no one from their sins, nor into the Righteousness of God.

 

[Earburner]

My above post was sent incomplete. I will try again.

 

[Giuliano]

No Jew acquainted with the word of God would believe in the miracles of God? That's crazy. And you making a Monty Python like joke out of the whole thing is crazy too.

Jews were told not to believe someone had to be from God just because he could perform signs and wonders. Have you not read this?

Deuteronomy 13:1 If there arise among you a prophet, or a dreamer of dreams, and giveth thee a sign or a wonder,
2 And the sign or the wonder come to pass, whereof he spake unto thee, saying, Let us go after other gods, which thou hast not known, and let us serve them;
3 Thou shalt not hearken unto the words of that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams: for the Lord your God proveth you, to know whether ye love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul.

Nicodemus had read it, I am sure; and we see him trying to make sure he didn't fall for a swindler who was motivated by pride.

So what--is God not the same yesterday, today, and forever?

So what? You asked me for if the Bible said anywhere that Ezekiel could move like wind. I provided you examples. The least you could do is thank me for providing them.

I have posted here over 5000 times and given my testimony including such things many times. But why do you doubt such things that are clearly evident already in the scriptures?

I must have missed them. I do not doubt that some people can move like the wind; but when you expressed skepticism on the subject, I rather thought you had no clue about it meant. I still think you don't.

 

[Giuliano]

My above post was sent incomplete. I will try again.

You could use the "preview" option before clicking the "reply" button.

 

[101G]

GINOLJC, to all

1. If Jesus went to the Father, and if anyone can say that He is with or in them and them in He...then He has both gone and also returned again. By definition that is a [second] advent. By Jesus' own definition, it is His final advent (John 14:3).

ERROR, listen closley Scott,
John 14:18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.
John 14:19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also. (read that again)
John 14:20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.
John 14:21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.
John 14:22 Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world?
John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

HOLD IT, Judas asked a very important question. "Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world". notice he asked, "how would he MANIFEST himself, himself, himself? excellent question. our Lord Jesus answer, verse 23. "If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him". abode here is to dwell. he is coming to dwell in us.
NOW, knowing this he is "COMING", and advent means arrival or "COMING". so the question still stand did the Lord Jesus come on the day of Pentecost? YES, and how did he COME? as Judas asked and the Lord responded, HE MANIFESTED HIMSELF. lest see it.

Scripture #1, Acts 2:1 And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.
Acts 2:2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.
Acts 2:3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.
Acts 2:4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
ok, we see that the Holy Ghost Came on Pentecost, so was it the Lord Jesus? scripture, Eph 4:8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men. ok, what GIFTS? lets see, remember it was the out pouring of the Holy Ghost on Pentecost, correct. now this, 1Cor 12:7 "But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal". HOLD it, but the what? .... the "MANIFESTATION" of the who? the Spirit. what did our Lord Jesus say to Judas in
John 14:21 "He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him". that's the "Manifestation" Judas ask the Lord Jesus about, how will you MANIFEST yourself. HOW? in the Spiritual Gifts that he gave men when he asended. let's prove this out in our second set of

Scripture #2, Acts 2:17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams". here the apostle Peter is quoting Joel 2:28 & 29. but watch what he says in verses 32 & 33,
Acts 2:32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses. (God raised up Jesus? see John 2:18-22)
Acts 2:33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear".
who shed forth this? the Lord Jesus. remember Peter said, "God" will pour out his, his, Spirit, correct. but it was Jesus who recieved it from the Father/Spirit and poured it out himself, correct. well lets see what the scriptures say in Joel. notice how spirit is not capitalized in Joel, (that's a wake up call). but with the capitalized "S" in Spirit, indicating God, himself the Father. now Joel 2:28 "And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions". did one notice the small case "s" in spirit, but was it not the Holy Spirit that was poured forth? YES. so why did God, the "LORD", all cap, indicating the Father, speaking in Joel say his "spirit"when clearly John 4:24a say that God is a "Spirit? but notice the small case "s" in spirit, here in Joel. now go back to Luke 24:39 "Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have". a spirit? notice the small case "s" in spirit, is not God a Spirit according to John 4:24a? well now lets see if this is so. John 20:28 "And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God". Lord Indicates Jesus as "a spirit", notice the small case "s" in spirit, meaning GOD in FLESH & BONES as a MAN. for Thomas declared, "My Lord and my God". why not say my LORD and my God, see the difference, or is there any difference. no he said my "Lord" and my God, indicating the Holy Spirit/God in flesh. Uh Oh the Holy Spirit in Flesh? yes, the Spirit, or the spirit that was poured out on Pentecost.

NOW, to understand this, QUESTION, "who sent the Holy Spirit?" lets see,
A. was it the one who you calls the FATHER?, John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you. remember Scott by coming that's an ADVENT.....

B. or was it the Son, Jesus himself who sent his, his, Spirit?. John 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

OK, who sent the the Holy Spirit, the COMFORTER? remember the Lord'words, John 14:18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you. and one more, John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. REMEMBER Scott, a "Coming" is a ADVENT. and the Spirit came on Pentecost. with that I leave this for your edification, which sums up all that I have posted above.
2Cor 3:12 Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech:
2Cor 3:13 And not as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished:
2Cor 3:14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.
2Cor 3:15 But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.
2Cor 3:16 Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.
2Cor 3:17 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. (read that again)
2Cor 3:18 But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.

until you turn/repent, the vail remains.

PICJAG.

 

[ScottA]

It is most easy to say this, is it not, about pretty much anything? I can say it back to you with just as much ease. It doesn't really answer the question, however. Which is one of the reasons it is best to look at the preponderance of the verses that speak on the topic and see where they point, what they add up to. Clearly you believe that evidence points only to a spiritual return of Christ. I would say it overwhelmingly points to a physical one. And, considering orthodoxy is behind me, it seems to me that anyone claiming the 'absurd' label needs to be the one bearing the onus of proof.

Unfortunately, you are wrong because you are breaking the single most important principle:

John 3:6
"That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit."​

You point to the flesh, because it is born of you. But what is born of God...is spirit.

 

[ScottA]

But if we have his promise to come again physically, has indeed that promise been fulfilled?

There is no such promise.

You have added "physically." It's not there in the scriptures. You are reading into it what the flesh desires.

 

[ScottA]

Wait...are you suggesting that we here now who do not 'see' Christ do not because we are not 'like him'...as in, we cling too tightly to the flesh and sin? Because, oh boy, talk about 'that's not what that verse is talking about'....

Beloved, we are God's children now, and what we will be has not yet appeared; but we know that when he appears we shall be like him, because we shall see him as he is. -1 John 3:2

John is speaking about when Christ "appears". Not when "we get ourselves together" and then we get to see him.
The upshot? When Jesus Christ returns to this earth (John 16:7); in that glorious moment we shall be gathered to him (2 Thess 2:1), we shall see him (1 John 3:2) and we shall be given new bodies that are sinless (1 Cor 15:52)...then we will be like him!

Yes, that is what I am saying...as do the scriptures, as John was also saying. He spoke of when Jesus comes in the glory of the Father--whom is not flesh, but spirit. Which is the second and final advent.

But you apparently have not reconciled the fact that Jesus laid down His physical body in sacrifice and death, rose up physically, but only committed His spirit to the Father, and only ascended spiritually...and that we who are His are now His physical body, we who in following in like manner will or have already died to the flesh that we may be alive to God (whom is spirit) as One.

Meanwhile many remain with their minds set upon the things of the flesh. Romans 8:5-6