Three (3) Advents?

[101G]

I am getting ready to take a trip, so I will not be able to go on and on.

But you have made a religion out of your own interpretation, disregarding the whole counsel of God, which I continue to name and you continue to disregard. These things you cannot reconcile with your interpretation:

First thanks for the reply, second, hope you have a safe trip. third, nope I have not made a religion out of my own interpretation. there is only one religion and it been here before the heavens or the earth was created... "Holness". be ye holy for I the Lord your God is Holy. not mine, his. the counsel of God is his word, and it is here for all to examine, as the apostle have said, so do I, "I have not hidden anything". scripture, 2 Corinthians 4:1-6 "Therefore seeing we have this ministry, as we have received mercy, we faint not;" 2 "But have renounced the hidden things of dishonesty, not walking in craftiness, nor handling the word of God deceitfully; but by manifestation of the truth commending ourselves to every man's conscience in the sight of God." 3 "But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:" 4 "In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them." 5 "For we preach not ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord; and ourselves your servants for Jesus' sake." 6 "For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ." AMEN.

Ecclesiastes 12:7
"Then the dust (flesh) will return to the earth as it was, And the spirit will return to God who gave it."

are you so sure of this overall assessment. #1. do our bones return to the dust as the flesh? (we suggest you read Ezekiel 37). see, that's you, yes you in the grave...... those dry bones.

2 Peter 3:10
"But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements (including the dust/flesh) will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up."

Oh yea, 1 Thessalonians 4:16 "For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:" well, well, well, I never head of a thief shouting when he comes
well it seem some dust don't make the fire, they rise first. and the ones alive are change in the twinkling of an eye, Hmmm... more dust escape the fire. so that assessment of your want fly. try again when you return. will that be your second or third advent/return to the fourm? .... but look all kidding aside, have a safe trip.

PICJAG.

 

[ScottA]

are you so sure of this overall assessment. #1. do our bones return to the dust as the flesh? (we suggest you read Ezekiel 37). see, that's you, yes you in the grave...... those dry bones.

Oh yea, 1 Thessalonians 4:16 "For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:" well, well, well, I never head of a thief shouting when he comes
well it seem some dust don't make the fire, they rise first. and the ones alive are change in the twinkling of an eye, Hmmm... more dust escape the fire. so that assessment of your want fly. try again when you return. will that be your second or third advent/return to the fourm? .... but look all kidding aside, have a safe trip.

You depart from the word believing what you want to believe, to question whether or not the "bones" are included in the "dust" which are "burned up." This you do because you do not understand that "the dry bones" is used in parable, and are a mere vision of what Israel would experience which Christ in the resurrection. But it is against scripture and Christ, to say that the elements of the body "inherit the kingdom of God." They do not.

It is against scripture to say that "some dust don't make the fire." On the contrary, the scriptures say just the opposite.

 

[Helen]

You depart from the word believing what you want to believe, to question whether or not the "bones" are included in the "dust" which are "burned up." This you do because you do not understand that "the dry bones" is used in parable (a vision) of what Israel would experience which Christ in the resurrection. But it is against scripture and Christ, to say that the elements of the body "inherit the kingdom of God." They do not.

It is against scripture to say that "some dust don't make the fire." On the contrary, the scriptures say just the opposite.

Welcome back Scott...you have been missed bro.

 

[Giuliano]

The common reference to the Spirit in scripture prior to Jesus sending Him at Pentecost, was that the spirit "moved" or "came upon" or "bound" or "entered into." But the matter is made clear and finished with John saying "the Holy Spirit was not yet given." You can stop guessing.

And you can also endlessly keep questioning why what was said by and to Nicodemus means one thing or another, but it does not change the fact that Jesus made it clear that in order to enter the kingdom of God one must be born twice (or "again"), one of which is of the "spirit." So...if you want to imagine that the other way is not natural water birth...well, good luck with that.

If it means natural water birth, nobody has to worry about it then since we've all been born that way. Everyone is halfway there just by being born in a physical body.

 

[ScottA]

If it means natural water birth, nobody has to worry about it then since we've all been born that way. Everyone is halfway there just by being born in a physical body.

That is exactly right. That was the point of the conversation and the time of Jesus' coming, that "if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself; that where I am, there you may be also." Which of course is with the Father...whom is not flesh and blood or "natural", but "spirit."

 

[Giuliano]

That is exactly right. That was the point of the conversation and the time of Jesus' coming, that "if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself; that where I am, there you may be also." Which of course is with the Father...whom is not flesh and blood or "natural", but "spirit."

Why would Jesus bother to mention it then?

 

[ScottA]

Why would Jesus bother to mention it then?

Not because of where Jesus was going, but because of where Nicodemus was coming from (as are we all).

 

[Giuliano]

Not because of where Jesus was going, but because of where Nicodemus was coming from (as are we all).

Your response is vague to me. Nicodemus had already been born in the earthly manner. Why tell him then he had to be born of the water?

Another question is why did Jesus expect Nicodemus to know what he was talking about? That means it's Old Testament material.

 

[ScottA]

Your response is vague to me. Nicodemus had already been born in the earthly manner. Why tell him then he had to be born of the water?

Another question is why did Jesus expect Nicodemus to know what he was talking about? That means it's Old Testament material.

Repetition (parables) is a biblical language standard. Nicodemus knew what it meant to be born of water, so Jesus would have expected him to know what it would mean to be born also of the spirit of God.

 

[Giuliano]

Repetition (parables) is a biblical language standard. Nicodemus knew what it meant to be born of water, so Jesus would have expected him to know what it would mean to be born also of the spirit of God.

I think you're trivializing what Jesus said. Besides we have the example of Jesus life where his sonship is announced three times. One was after his baptism.

 

[ScottA]

I think you're trivializing what Jesus said. Besides we have the example of Jesus life where his sonship is announced three times. One was after his baptism.

No...you are trying to make something out of it that it is not. Paul explains: "the spiritual is not first, but the natural, and afterward the spiritual."

 

[101G]

You depart from the word believing what you want to believe, to question whether or not the "bones" are included in the "dust" which are "burned up." This you do because you do not understand that "the dry bones" is used in parable, and are a mere vision of what Israel would experience which Christ in the resurrection. But it is against scripture and Christ, to say that the elements of the body "inherit the kingdom of God." They do not.

It is against scripture to say that "some dust don't make the fire." On the contrary, the scriptures say just the opposite.

GINOLJC, to all.
first thanks for the reply, second, we don't agree with that assessment. flesh and bone do inherit the Kingdom, just without blood. scripture, Luke 24:39 "Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have". well you handle flesh and bones. it's you who have left the word of God. so are you saying that the Lord Jesus did not inherit the kingdom?


Acts 2:25 For David speaketh concerning him, I foresaw the Lord always before my face, for he is on my right hand, that I should not be moved:
Acts 2:26 Therefore did my heart rejoice, and my tongue was glad; moreover also my flesh shall rest in hope:
Acts 2:27 Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.
Acts 2:28 Thou hast made known to me the ways of life; thou shalt make me full of joy with thy countenance.
Acts 2:29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.
Acts 2:30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;
Acts 2:31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.
Acts 2:32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.

well I agree to that.

1Cor 15:35 But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?
1Cor 15:36 Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:
1Cor 15:37 And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain:
1Cor 15:38 But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body.
1Cor 15:39 All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds.
1Cor 15:40 There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.
1Cor 15:41 There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory.
1Cor 15:42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:

1Cor 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
1Cor 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
1Cor 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

ok Scott what is dead that is to be raised and "changed?" ......... again we say read Ezekiel 37

PICJAG.

 

[Giuliano]

No...you are trying to make something out of it that it is not. Paul explains: "the spiritual is not first, but the natural, and afterward the spiritual."

Yes, first he was born in the physical flesh. Then he was born of water. Then he was born of the Spirit.

According to your theory, if someone asked what he should do to be saved, you would say, "First you need to be born in the flesh."

 

[stunnedbygrace]

How absurd!

Sorry if you have been mislead, but three "advents" by definition would be impossible. First the flesh, then the spirit--that's all. There is no third element or arrival.

I find this confusing, Scott. Are you meaning an argument against like...Bernard of Clairveaux (He came in 1. flesh, 2. In secret from the world, in Spirit, to each of us and, 3. Will come again when every eye will see Him, even those who pierced Him?

Or are you arguing against more like...1. In flesh, 2. To gather and, 3. In wrath? (In other words, an argument against what is termed "pretrib rapture?)

Or are you referring to something else entirely?

 

[101G]

To all let me be clear about what I'm saying on the Lord's 3 advent.

#1. the Lord came in flesh, Matt 1:23 "Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us".
This is our God first coming
FOOTNOTE TO THIS 1st. COMING: Luke 2:25 "And, behold, there was a man in Jerusalem, whose name was Simeon; and the same man was just and devout, waiting for the consolation of Israel: and the Holy Ghost was upon him".
Luke 2:26 And it was revealed unto him by the Holy Ghost, that he should not see death, before he had seen the Lord's Christ.
this term "consolation" is the Greek word, G3874 παράκλησις paraklesis (pa-ra'-klee-sis) n.
1. an imploration, entreaty (urgent request (for mercy or help)).
2. an exhortation (urgent counsel, encouragement, or caution).
3. a comfort, solace.
[from G3870]
KJV: comfort, consolation, exhortation, intreaty
One who gives "comfort" is a COMFORTER. and one who gives "Help" is a HELPER. and one who gives "counsel" is a COUNSELLOR or ADVOCATE, as in 1John 2:1 "My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous". which is the same as a "COMFORTER". it's the Greek word,
G3875 παράκλητος parakletos (pa-ra'-klee-tos) n.
1. (properly) one called near (to give help).
2. an intercessor (one who entreats of behalf of another).
3. a comforter.
[(not given)]
KJV: advocate, comforter
Root(s): G3844, G2822

and Jesus Christ is our Comforter/Advocate, which sets us up for his second Advent.

Advent #2.
Acts 2:1 And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.
Acts 2:2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.
Acts 2:3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.
Acts 2:4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

the Holy Ghost is called the "COMFORTER" the ADVOCATE. let's back this up.
John 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
John 14:17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
John 14:18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.

who came? the Lord Jesus, in Spirit, the "ANOTHER" comforter, another "helper", another "counsellor". not in flesh and bone, but in SPIRIT, and that coming happen on the day of Pentecost. for he said,"I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you." BINGO, this is his second ADVENT, or Coming. so far we have one coming in NATURAL FLESH with BLOOD. and here we have a coming without flesh, without bone and without blood, meaning a MANIFESTATION. not an "appearing" as in the FIRST Advent, but in Spirit. which now sets us up for the the second coming, or Parousia of christ.

Advent #3.
Rev 1:7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.
Acts 1:11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

THIS IS CALLED, The Second Coming (sometimes called the Second Advent or the Parousia) of the Lord Jesus the Christ.

please NOTE: 3 advent... "Coming", but two Parousia, or "appearing". do we have bible for these two Parousia, or "appearing?" yes, scripture, Heb 9:28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation. BINGO, there is the two "appearing". and on the day of Pentecost, one "arrival/advent in MANIFESTATION.

so we have two/2 "appearing", or coming, and one/1 "manifestation", or coming, which are three advents, or coming.

three coming, two "appearing" in flesh, one natural, the other unnatural, Glorified without blood, (see Luke 24:39). and one coming in the Manifestation of the Spirit, in which he gave gifts to men,
Eph 4:8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.
Eph 4:9 (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?
Eph 4:10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)

and those gifts was given in "HIS" Manifestation, or arrival, or coming/Advent on the day of Pentecost. BINGO.

this is why we say that there are three ADVENTS of our Lord and Saviour Jesus the Christ.

I hope this shed some light on where I stand on the three advents of Christ Jesus.

PICJAG.

 

[ScottA]

GINOLJC, to all.
first thanks for the reply, second, we don't agree with that assessment. flesh and bone do inherit the Kingdom, just without blood. scripture, Luke 24:39 "Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have". well you handle flesh and bones. it's you who have left the word of God. so are you saying that the Lord Jesus did not inherit the kingdom?


Acts 2:25 For David speaketh concerning him, I foresaw the Lord always before my face, for he is on my right hand, that I should not be moved:
Acts 2:26 Therefore did my heart rejoice, and my tongue was glad; moreover also my flesh shall rest in hope:
Acts 2:27 Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.
Acts 2:28 Thou hast made known to me the ways of life; thou shalt make me full of joy with thy countenance.
Acts 2:29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.
Acts 2:30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;
Acts 2:31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.
Acts 2:32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.

well I agree to that.

1Cor 15:35 But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?
1Cor 15:36 Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:
1Cor 15:37 And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain:
1Cor 15:38 But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body.
1Cor 15:39 All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds.
1Cor 15:40 There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.
1Cor 15:41 There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory.
1Cor 15:42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:

1Cor 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
1Cor 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
1Cor 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

ok Scott what is dead that is to be raised and "changed?" ......... again we say read Ezekiel 37

PICJAG.

Your supposed evidences are not evidence of flesh or bone inheriting the kingdom of God, but rather evidence of Christ's victory and power over death ("on earth as it is in heaven").

These things are a matter of "rightly dividing the word of truth", which you have incorrectly mixed up. Those things you mention are not of the eternal resurrection which was made different by His word in committing only His spirit to the Father; and then also made different in His ascension, which was not the rising of His flesh to be with the Father as you claim, but rather the rising up of His spirit [only] as He said, "I go to the Father" whom is "perfect" without flesh or bone, and is only spirit. And although He has made them separate, saying "Follow Me!" you have not followed "in like manner", but are mixing light with darkness.

 

[ScottA]

Yes, first he was born in the physical flesh. Then he was born of water. Then he was born of the Spirit.

According to your theory, if someone asked what he should do to be saved, you would say, "First you need to be born in the flesh."

No...you are being silly, and redundant.

On the contrary, Jesus did not say "You must be born again, and again, and again." But only stated what should be obvious, that just as Nicodemus had been born of water, he must also be "born again" (just once more).

 

[101G]

Your supposed evidences are not evidence of flesh or bone inheriting the kingdom of God, but rather evidence of Christ's victory and power over death ("on earth as it is in heaven").

These things are a matter of "rightly dividing the word of truth", which you have incorrectly mixed up. Those things you mention are not of the eternal resurrection which was made different by His word in committing only His spirit to the Father; and then also made different in His ascension, which was not the rising of His flesh to be with the Father as you claim, but rather the rising up of His spirit [only] as He said, "I go to the Father" whom is "perfect" without flesh or bone, and is only spirit. And although He has made them separate, saying "Follow Me!" you have not followed "in like manner", but are mixing light with darkness.

First thanks for the reply, but we must disagree with your assessment. scripture,
Acts 1:10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;
Acts 1:11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

scott, you cannot see a spirit/Spirit, but they saw Jesus asend. and when he comes back every eye, not some thought pattern, but every "EYE" will "SEE" him,
Rev 1:7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen".

Now listen carefully,
1Cor 15:50 "Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption". DID YOU GET THAT SCOTT?. but flesh and bone, bone, bone can inherit, let's see the scripture once again,
Luke 24:39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.

flesh and bones, flesh and bones, flesh and bones. NO BLOOD.... see, or understand, blood is for natural flesh,
Lev 17:11 For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul".

when our Lord rose, he have no BLOOD, only flesh and bones. this is what inherit.

if you cannot believe scripture, I'm sorry for you. but the scriptures don't lie. so, argue with the scriptures.


PICJAG.

 

[ScottA]

I find this confusing, Scott. Are you meaning an argument against like...Bernard of Clairveaux (He came in 1. flesh, 2. In secret from the world, in Spirit, to each of us and, 3. Will come again when every eye will see Him, even those who pierced Him?

Or are you arguing against more like...1. In flesh, 2. To gather and, 3. In wrath? (In other words, an argument against what is termed "pretrib rapture?)

Or are you referring to something else entirely?

I was stating that three advents is error.

On the contrary, the scriptures say just two advents: first the natural, then the spiritual, i.e., once natural, and [again] spiritual. 1 Corinthians 15:46

This issue is confused by many who have not believed Jesus when He said:

Luke 11:20
"But if I cast out demons with the finger of God, surely the kingdom of God has come upon you." ...2000 years ago... Not in the future (except for those who have not received it).

 

[ScottA]

First thanks for the reply, but we must disagree with your assessment. scripture,
Acts 1:10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;
Acts 1:11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

scott, you cannot see a spirit/Spirit, but they saw Jesus asend. and when he comes back every eye, not some thought pattern, but every "EYE" will "SEE" him,
Rev 1:7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen".

Now listen carefully,
1Cor 15:50 "Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption". DID YOU GET THAT SCOTT?. but flesh and bone, bone, bone can inherit, let's see the scripture once again,
Luke 24:39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.

flesh and bones, flesh and bones, flesh and bones. NO BLOOD.... see, or understand, blood is for natural flesh,
Lev 17:11 For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul".

when our Lord rose, he have no BLOOD, only flesh and bones. this is what inherit.

if you cannot believe scripture, I'm sorry for you. but the scriptures don't lie. so, argue with the scriptures.


PICJAG.

That is the flesh talking, the thinking of men.

Flesh, blood, and bone are all of the world. God is spirit. Therefore, it is as He (and you) say, "a spirit hath not flesh and bones." --God has not bones. But here you are saying that bones can inherit the kingdom, when it is impossible!

Also, he did not say "As you have seen him go in the flesh" --you are adding that part in you own mind.

But since you know that the spirit could not be seen, and that He went to the Father whom is spirit, you should also know that all that was seen was Him leaving. What was not seen then was Him arriving into the presence of the Father. In other words, even though the witnesses did not see the greater half of what had occurred, it was still correct to say, "in like manner", for the like manner was the manner of the Father...and not of the flesh.

To say the like manner was in the manner of what was seen in the flesh, is to say there was no ascension, and that the scriptures that say that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God is a lie--that God lied. Which leaves you saying (in your own words) that Jesus is a fraud and God is a liar. And yet there is no need to do so...for the "like manner" is indeed the like manner of God, and not of men...and you have simply assumed incorrectly.