Three Raptures

[David in NJ]

Jesus our deliverer from the coming wrath.
the great day of His wrath has come
Jesus our deliverer from the coming wrath.
the great day of His wrath has come
Jesus our deliverer from the coming wrath.

So are you delivered or expecting His wrath to come down on you?

Now Rev.12 introduces us to the woman; which most believe is Israel.

A great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet and a crown of twelve stars on her head. 2 She was pregnant and cried out in pain as she was about to give birth. 3 Then another sign appeared in heaven: an enormous red dragon with seven heads and ten horns and seven crowns on its heads. 4 Its tail swept a third of the stars out of the sky and flung them to the earth. The dragon stood in front of the woman who was about to give birth, so that it might devour her child the moment he was born. 5 She gave birth to a son, a male child, who “will rule all the nations with an iron scepter.” And her child was snatched up to God and to his throne. 6 The woman fled into the wilderness to a place prepared for her by God, where she might be taken care of for 1,260 days.
Why is Israel protected and not us during the Trib? What this means is we are still coming out of the fog regarding how Jesus will preserve His people; yet He will.

JESUS our Deliverer from the coming Wrath

What do you not understand from this?

 

[Gordon]

I don't understand how you plan to maneuver through the most severe devastation that the earth and mankind will ever have to experience in the last 3.5 of the Trib. To avoid it would be the most logical conclusion.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

@Gordon
I also think the 4 horses have been let out of the barn as well. The NWO enforced worldwide pandemic rules for all to adhere by. They started in the US on March 12, 2020. At no other time in history was such power commanded over hundreds of countries that just compiled.
Wars, rumors of wars, famine and catistrophic death tolls will amount if this is true. The Big War soon, imo, will be 10 Islamic nations against Israel ( with the obvious assistance of Russia, who has been instrumental in assisting in Iran's nuclear program and has several bases in Syria).
Russia has a doomsday nuke that can create massive tsunamis when ignited up to 1/2 deep under the ocean- which would account for 1/3 destruction of sea vessels and 1/3 death to fish (described in the Trumpet judgments). They may decide to use that against the US to keep us occupied, while Iran and the others do their thing. We know Israel has hundreds of nukes and are very capable of defending themselves, but what if they are just hit by a massive tsunami too or an EMP takes out their power? Iran does not want to be annihiliated too.
One part of the puzzle I can't fit in is where are the Two Witnesses? It would appear that they would come before a war, not after. ??
Anyways, the worst day in Israel's history is Tisha B'AV, the 9th of Av. The 1st and 2nd Temples were destroyed on that day. Throughout history, massuve amounts of deaths, the Jews banished from England, Spain and France - on that day in different years. Nazi Commander Heinrich Himmler's "Final Solution' was approved on that day which began the Holocaust.
The Jews actually start fasting tomorrow, 3 weeks prior to Tisha B'AV to commemorate this very bad day in history. That day is coming on July 26. If war is going to happen this year, this may be the day? These events did not happen by chance God ordained them. He gave a decree on that day to be a day of crying, calamities, destruction, when the Israelites refused to obey His command to go into the Promise Land and take it. They were afraid of the reports that came back and so thay generation was deprived of entering the Promised Land.

 

[Gordon]

"the 4 horses have been let out of the barn as well" Yes I agree and it turns out that all four actions are man made events which coincide with the AC persecuting the saints. as in Daniel
Daniel 7:25 He will speak against the Most High and oppress his holy people and try to change the set times and the laws. The holy people will be delivered into his hands for a time, times and half a time.

 

[David in NJ]

I don't understand how you plan to maneuver through the most severe devastation that the earth and mankind will ever have to experience in the last 3.5 of the Trib. To avoid it would be the most logical conclusion.

Always BELIEVE the words of CHRIST.

Mark 13:19-20
For in those days there will be tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the creation which God created until this time, nor ever shall be.
And unless the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh would be saved;
but for the elect’s sake, whom He chose, He shortened the days.

 

[David in NJ]

7th Trumpet rapture! Mid-Trib and I have exhausted all the possibilities.
However, I have come to an alternate reasoning, that the Seals, Trumpets and Bowls are released either simultaneously or rapidly. We are shown what each one means individually and read it in a linear fashion; but it does not follow that these events are fully realized before the next is released. Many things are happening at once, amd they accumulate, but for perspective, we are given different vantage points. Also I have recently come to find out that that there are certain parathetical passages that are not to be taken chronologically with prrevious events. For instance, chapter 7 is a parathetical passage. It states that, before any of the previous events progress to a destructive level, the 144k are sealed. Before any harm comes to the earth they are sealed. Well, in the Seals, we see lots of devastation: wars, famine, death to 25% of the entire population. Obviously that translates into harm to the grass and trees. Therefore, if they are released quickly, a 7th Trumpet rapture could actually precede much devastation. ButnI do believe we will have to suffer through some. The Antichrist persecuted tue Church during this time ... or is he just persecuting the Jews, whom he has organized ten nations against?
The COMING BIG WAR in the Middle East will certainly signal that we are in it.

You ask: The Antichrist persecuted tue Church during this time ... or is he just persecuting the Jews, whom he has organized ten nations against?

Always BELIEVE the words of CHRIST = Revelation ch6 , ch7, ch14 , Matt ch24

ch6
And when the Lamb opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the testimony they had upheld. 10And they cried out in a loud voice, “How long, O Lord, holy and true, until You avenge our blood and judge those who dwell upon the earth?”
11Then each of them was given a white robe and told to rest a little while longer, until the full number of their fellow servants, their brothers, were killed, just as they had been killed.

ch7
After this I looked and saw a multitude too large to count, from every nation and tribe and people and tongue, standing before the throne and before the Lamb. They were wearing white robes and holding palm branches in their hands. 10And they cried out in a loud voice:
“Salvation to our God,
who sits on the throne,
and to the Lamb!”
11And all the angels stood around the throne and around the elders and the four living creatures. And they fell facedown before the throne and worshiped God, 12saying, “Amen! Blessing and glory and wisdom and thanks and honor and power and strength be to our God forever and ever! Amen.”
13Then one of the elders addressed me: “These in white robes,” he asked, “who are they, and where have they come from?”

14“Sir,” I answered, “you know.”

So he replied, “These are the ones who have come out of the great tribulation; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb


ch14
Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.

13Then I heard a voice from heaven saying to me, “Write: ‘Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on.’ ”

“Yes,” says the Spirit, “that they may rest from their labors, and their works follow them.”

Matthew ch24
And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come.

 

[Gordon]

Chronological order coincides with timed events. So to speak of ch7 requires that we recognize its timing within the unfolding plan of God. It doesn't mean that its a look forward to the end, any more then the 144 would be a look forward to the end. No something happens to believers at this junction.

 

[David in NJ]

Chronological order coincides with timed events. So to speak of ch7 requires that we recognize its timing within the unfolding plan of God. It doesn't mean that its a look forward to the end, any more then the 144 would be a look forward to the end. No something happens to believers at this junction.

Revelation is not a strict chronological writing.

Revelation repeats certain truths and is a continual revealing of that which is most important to Christ for us.

Revelation encapsulates "the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End"

Revelation encapsulates "the mystery of iniquity" and at the same time "the Mystery of God"

 

[David in NJ]

Chronological order coincides with timed events. So to speak of ch7 requires that we recognize its timing within the unfolding plan of God. It doesn't mean that its a look forward to the end, any more then the 144 would be a look forward to the end. No something happens to believers at this junction.

YES, and God told us what happens to these Believers of ch7.

Go back to chapter 6 for God's answer = 6:9-11

When He opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the testimony which they held. And they cried with a loud voice, saying, “How long, O Lord, holy and true, until You judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?” Then a white robe was given to each of them; and it was said to them that they should rest a little while longer, until both the number of their fellow servants and their brethren, who would be killed as they were, was completed.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

One of the most precious of promises for the people of God is the eventual return of our Savior Jesus and being whisked away via the Rapture*. The term “Rapture”comes from the Latin Translation of the Bible, whereas the Greek translation is Harpazo’ meaning “Caught Up”. But such an event has remained a mystery for thousands of years beginning with insights coming from the Prophet Daniel. However as we come closer to the end of the age God is beginning to shine light on end time events like never before. This is especially true as we see the seven year Tribulation unfolding right before our very eyes.

Now the Word of God combined with our human curiosity has come up with three well known explanations regarding the churches rapture. These biblical theories amount to a Pre, a Mid and a Post rapture event. But let me say in advance that I am using the term “rapture” very loosely here only to point out that God will one day have to be supernatural in order to bring His children home.

Personally I believe that there is enough evidence to suggest that a “pre-tribulation rapture” never materialized. Current world events align so very well with Prophetic scripture that the “Pre” opportunity has come and gone. But surprisingly the Word still offers us three opportunities to be carried away. So let’s see what scripture has to say about each potential moment of departure.

1. In real time we have begun to suffer the effects of the “Seal judgments” of Revelation. These judgments have introduced us to the four horsemen of the apocalypse who have imposed upon humanity the Jab, medical murder, famine and death and hades (The later is still a mystery as of this writing.) What will then follow are a series of natural disasters that start by blackening the skies, turning the moon to blood and leveling mountains (Possible pole shift event as described in Rev 6:12). So as we approach chapter seven of Revelation the church should be wide awake by now. This then introduces us to our first example of departure which gains merit from a number of key passages.

• • We first gain insight in regard to the Church of Philadelphia.

Rev 3:10 Since you have kept my command to endure patiently, I will also keep you from the hour of trial that is going to come on the whole world to test the inhabitants of the earth.

It was assumed by many that this meant being raptured ahead of a seven year Tribulation. However as we have discovered it only refers to 3.5 years of that event. We see this in relation to what Daniel had to say about the work of the Antichrist and his control over the people of God.

Daniel 7:25 He will speak against the Most High and oppress his holy people and try to change the set times and the laws. The holy people will be delivered into his hands for a time, times and half a time.

The message continues by stating that the children of God are released after 3.5 years but then are given the kingdom.

Daniel 7:26 “‘But the court will sit, and his power will be taken away and completely destroyed forever. 27 Then the sovereignty, power and greatness of all the kingdoms under heaven will be handed over to the holy people of the Most High. His kingdom will be an everlasting kingdom, and all rulers will worship and obey him.’

The language is unique in that it parallels something Jesus once said after His resurrection.

Matthew 28:18 Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.

In this regard the Church finds a new commission under the Headship of Christ and gets lifted up in the process.

• Another witness to the churches time of departure (mid-point) we should remember the words of the Apostle Paul that speaks of a Restrainer being taken out of the way.

2 Thessalonians 2:6-8 And you know what restrains him now, so that he will be revealed in his time. 7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He who now restrains (will do so) until He is removed. 8 Then that lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will eliminate with the breath of His mouth and bring to an end by the appearance of His coming;

• Since the Bible makes mention of the saints being set free after 3.5 years; surprising that period of time coincides with another of Daniels prophecies which talks about 1290 days and 1335 days.

Daniel 12:11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.12 Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.

Now I’m not setting dates here, but rather I want to give the reader a calculation that gives a rough estimate as to how close we are to the return of our Lord. If we take into account that the Tribulation began around the beginning of March 2020 with the great Reset then the 1290 and 1335 days looks like this.

From Sunday, March 1, 2020
Added 1290 days Result: Tuesday, September 12, 2023

From Sunday, March 1, 2020
Added 1335 days Result: Friday, October 27, 2023

As these passages come to life in our day they confirm an initial moment of exodus which comes about just after the first 3.5 years of the tribulation. Why do I believe this? Matthew 24:22 says “unless the time of the tribulation is shortened no human life could be saved”. Hence since 1290 and 1335 days are not cut short, we can conclude that our departure is soon. What is then revealed is a remarkable heavenly event where believers are found worshiping at the throne of the Most High.

Rev 7:9 After this I looked, and there before me was a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language, standing before the throne and before the Lamb. They were wearing white robes and were holding palm branches in their hands.

Rev 7:13-15 Then one of the elders asked me, “These in white robes—who are they, and where did they come from?”14 I answered, “Sir, you know. ”And he said, “These are they who have come out of the great tribulation; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. 15 Therefore, “they are before the throne of God and serve him day and night in his temple; and he who sits on the throne will shelter them with his presence.

Please notice this one line of scripture;

“They have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.”

This one line defines which Saints are chosen. The departing Saints having come out of the great tribulation have gained redemption through Christ alone. It was His blood, His sacrifice and His ability to pass through death, burial and resurrection that brought us into favor with God and into His divine rest. But now there is another group of Saints waiting to depart.

2. Chapter 12 of Revelation reveals there will be children of Israel who have also gain redemption in Jesus/Yeshua; however this is after the first rapture has past. No doubt, the radical disappearance of the saints will make nations rethink their way in faith and prompt the Jew to conclude that Jesus/Yeshua really was the Messiah. Those that then place their faith in Him will be saved and find a place of rest for the duration of the Tribulation period. Here’s what we learn about this place of departure.

A great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet and a crown of twelve stars on her head. 2 She was pregnant and cried out in pain as she was about to give birth. 3 Then another sign appeared in heaven: an enormous red dragon with seven heads and ten horns and seven crowns on its heads. 4 Its tail swept a third of the stars out of the sky and flung them to the earth. The dragon stood in front of the woman who was about to give birth, so that it might devour her child the moment he was born. 5 She gave birth to a son, a male child, who “will rule all the nations with an iron scepter.” And her child was snatched up to God and to his throne. 6 The woman fled into the wilderness to a place prepared for her by God, where she might be taken care of for 1,260 days.

The occurrence that is being described is mirroring an astrological event that actually took place back in 2017. The stars aligned themselves in such away as to tell the story of the Virgin daughter of Israel gestating for nine mouths and then birthing the Redeemer. This celestial event goes on to tell the story of the dragon’s (The Devil’s) attempt to destroy the child. However after Jesus departs the earth, the dragon turns his attention to destroying the woman (Israel) and her offspring. However the woman flees into the wilderness to a place prepared for her by God. More specifically this place of sanctuary is to protect the Jews that have found redemption in Christ. This no doubt parallels what Paul the Apostle was saying about the Children of Israel coming back to the vine through Christ (Romans 11:25-27). But why a different path for the Jew and the Christian in the first place; why the difference in covenants?
Continue at Three Raptures | Beyond Science | Before It's News

Well as the 70th week of Daniel or "the tribulation period (that 70th week) haven't occurred yet, yes the rapture is most definitely pre trib as Paul declared in Thesselonians.

 

[Gordon]

YES, and God told us what happens to these Believers of ch7.

Go back to chapter 6 for God's answer = 6:9-11

When He opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the testimony which they held. And they cried with a loud voice, saying, “How long, O Lord, holy and true, until You judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?” Then a white robe was given to each of them; and it was said to them that they should rest a little while longer, until both the number of their fellow servants and their brethren, who would be killed as they were, was completed.

Now I tend to agree that chronology eventually loses continuity at some point. I've often wondered whether the first half of Rev. introduces us to certain characters in the play/story and then the second half fills in some of the details of the characters and the meaning. Quite frankly there are a number of mentions in the book such as the angel preaching the gospel, the battle in heaven with the Devil, even attributes of the AC being mentioned. But we should hold on to Chronology for as long as we can. especially as we see the four horse MEN do their thing. I'm not ready to let go of chronology at ch 6 or 7.

On a second subject. Is your 3.5 trib perspective taking all these events from chapter 6 forward to chapter 20 into perspective? After all its taken 3 years since march 2020 just to get to the black horse famine, thou pale horse maybe soon if its related to the nuke. whats your time table packed into 3.5 years?

 

[David in NJ]

Now I tend to agree that chronology eventually loses continuity at some point. I've often wondered whether the first half of Rev. introduces us to certain characters in the play/story and then the second half fills in some of the details of the characters and the meaning. Quite frankly there are a number of mentions in the book such as the angel preaching the gospel, the battle in heaven with the Devil, even attributes of the AC being mentioned. But we should hold on to Chronology for as long as we can. especially as we see the four horse MEN do their thing. I'm not ready to let go of chronology at ch 6 or 7.

On a second subject. Is your 3.5 trib perspective taking all these events from chapter 6 forward to chapter 20 into perspective? After all its taken 3 years since march 2020 just to get to the black horse famine, thou pale horse maybe soon if its related to the nuke. whats your time table packed into 3.5 years?

AGREE - we do not let go of 'chronology' but we submit to the course Revelation guides us thru.
Therefore, chronology is subject to the Revelation of Jesus Christ and not vice-versa.

IMPORTANT: The last 3.5 years will begin as the FATHER determines = Acts ch1 , 2 Thess ch2

And being assembled together with them, He commanded them not to depart from Jerusalem, but to wait for the Promise of the Father, “which,” He said, “you have heard from Me; for John truly baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.”
Therefore, when they had come together, they asked Him, saying, “Lord, will You at this time restore the kingdom to Israel?”
And He said to them, “It is not for you to know times or seasons which the Father has put in His own authority.
But you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be witnesses to Me in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth.”

Our MAIN focus is on being filled with the Holy Spirit and subsequently, the preaching of the Gospel.
Second to this is = "to wait for the Coming of the Lord Jesus Christ, our Deliverer from the wrath to come."

 

[Gordon]

AGREE - we do not let go of 'chronology' but we submit to the course Revelation guides us thru.
Therefore, chronology is subject to the Revelation of Jesus Christ and not vice-versa.

IMPORTANT: The last 3.5 years will begin as the FATHER determines = Acts ch1 , 2 Thess ch2

And being assembled together with them, He commanded them not to depart from Jerusalem, but to wait for the Promise of the Father, “which,” He said, “you have heard from Me; for John truly baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.”
Therefore, when they had come together, they asked Him, saying, “Lord, will You at this time restore the kingdom to Israel?”
And He said to them, “It is not for you to know times or seasons which the Father has put in His own authority.
But you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be witnesses to Me in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth.”

Our MAIN focus is on being filled with the Holy Spirit and subsequently, the preaching of the Gospel.
Second to this is = "to wait for the Coming of the Lord Jesus Christ, our Deliverer from the wrath to come."

"our Deliverer from the wrath to come." Doesn't this refute your expectations of having to go through the Trib?

 

[No Pre-TB]

After all its taken 3 years since march 2020 just to get to the black horse famine, thou pale horse maybe soon if its related to the nuke. whats your time table packed into 3.5 years?

Famine has existed throughout history. This is nothing new under the sun.

For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places. 8All these are the beginning of sorrows.

And what does Christ say about this?

see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.

Famine is a regular occurrence and will continue. It has no bearing on the end or of Christ coming.

The end does not come till sometime after: the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

 

[David in NJ]

"our Deliverer from the wrath to come." Doesn't this refute your expectations of having to go through the Trib?

the Wrath to come is from God and the Lamb = Rev 6:15-17 , 2 Thess 1:5-10

 

[Gordon]

Well, I admire your convictions and expect you to be blessed as we see the soon coming return of our Lord and Savior. Many blessings to you.

 

[No Pre-TB]

the Wrath to come is from God and the Lamb = Rev 6:15-17 , 2 Thess 1:5-10

David,
sounds like he is confusing the definition of wrath versus tribulation -

Deliverer from the wrath to come." Doesn't this refute your expectations of having to go through the Trib?

 

[Gordon]

the Wrath to come is from God and the Lamb = Rev 6:15-17 , 2 Thess 1:5-10

Well, I admire your convictions and expect you to be blessed as we see the soon coming return of our Lord and Savior. Many blessings to you.

 

[David in NJ]

David,
sounds like he is confusing the definition of wrath versus tribulation -

Deliverer from the wrath to come." Doesn't this refute your expectations of having to go through the Trib?

Agree

Which is why accurate study of the scriptures is essential coupled with prayer.

 

[Gordon]

Agree

Which is why accurate study of the scriptures is essential coupled with prayer.

You just cheapened the scriptures and your message with that one statement.