Trinity vs. Tritheism: Understanding the Trinity.

[justbyfaith]

You cannot remove the cause and still have the effect. That is, you cannot change the cause (the Father) into the effect (the Son) and have either.

Maybe I can't; but God can (Luke 1:37). There are ten dimensions over and above the four that we can perceive with our natural senses; each new dimension is exponential in the increase of possibilities that it provides for, like adding a mere point to the rating of an earthquake on the richter scale.

 

[Dave L]

Maybe I can't; but God can (Luke 1:37). There are ten dimensions over and above the four that we can perceive with our natural senses; each new dimension is exponential in the increase of possibilities that it provides for, like adding a mere point to the rating of an earthquake on the richter scale.

You still deny Both the Father AND the Son which is an attribute of an Antichrist according to John.

“Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.” (2 John 9) (KJV 1900)

“Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.” (1 John 2:22–23) (KJV 1900)

 

[farouk]

You still deny Both the Father AND the Son which is an attribute of an Antichrist according to John.

“Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.” (2 John 9) (KJV 1900)

“Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.” (1 John 2:22–23) (KJV 1900)

John's First Epistle is very searching, joyful but sobering; and a thorough reading of it should stir the conscience away from error and towards the truth as it is in God in Three Persons.

 

[justbyfaith]

That word and in that scripture is the Greek word kai, which can be translated as even.

To deny that Jesus is the Christ (to deny Jesus) is to deny the Father and the Son. Does this not testify to you that Jesus is the Father and the Son, even as Isaiah 9:6 proclaims (and John 10:30; and so many other verses)?

The devil's tactics with people is always fear.

 

[justbyfaith]

You still deny Both the Father AND the Son which is an attribute of an Antichrist according to John.

I have done what it takes to receive the Holy Ghost: God is not going to give me a serpent instead of a fish; and neither has He given me a scorpion when I was seeking for an egg.

 

[Dave L]

That word and in that scripture is the Greek word kai, which can be translated as even.

To deny that Jesus is the Christ (to deny Jesus) is to deny the Father and the Son. Does this not testify to you that Jesus is the Father and the Son, even as Isaiah 9:6 proclaims (and John 10:30; and so many other verses)?

The devil's tactics with people is always fear.

But Jesus says you'r wrong making that call:
“It is also written in your law, that the testimony of two men is true. I am one that bear witness of myself, and the Father that sent me beareth witness of me. Then said they unto him, Where is thy Father? Jesus answered, Ye neither know me, nor my Father: if ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also.” (John 8:17–19) (KJV 1900)

 

[Dave L]

I have done what it takes to receive the Holy Ghost: God is not going to give me a scorpion instead of a fish.

You don't know anything about receiving the Holy Spirit. The UPC does not understand Acts 2:38 in the least.

 

[Helen]

United Pentecostals do not believe anyone is saved unless baptized in Jesus' name resulting in speaking in tongues. They embrace Baptismal Regeneration just as the Catholics do.

Many other crazy notions exist too if you do an independent search.

Not being rude here...but who cares what they believe!!
I have my job cut out getting myself to the end of the race and keeping the faith...my own vineyard needs to be kept, I don't look over the fence to see if my neighbour is keeping his in straight rows.

If God moves on someone to ask me if what they believe is correct, I will answer. Telling someone that they are not correct, when the Holy Spirit is not moving on their hearts...is 'just me' blabbing...and it wont be heard, received, or find any root within them.

 

[justbyfaith]

But Jesus says you'r wrong making that call:
“It is also written in your law, that the testimony of two men is true. I am one that bear witness of myself, and the Father that sent me beareth witness of me. Then said they unto him, Where is thy Father? Jesus answered, Ye neither know me, nor my Father: if ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also.” (John 8:17–19) (KJV 1900)

Is God the Father a man?

I have already answered this (the quote from you) in post #675 (Trinity II).

 

[justbyfaith]

You don't know anything about receiving the Holy Spirit. The UPC does not understand Acts 2:38 in the least.

As far as I'm concerned, this is just you whining.

 

[Dave L]

Not being rude here...but who cares what they believe!!
I have my job cut out getting myself to the end of the race and keeping the faith...my own vineyard needs to be kept, I don't look over the fence to see if my neighbour is keeping his in straight rows.

If God moves on someone to ask me if what they believe is correct, I will answer. Telling someone that they are not correct, when the Holy Spirit is not moving on their hearts...is 'just me' blabbing...and it wont be heard, received or find root in them.

Well, can you be saved trusting in works instead of Christ? The UPC believes in works salvation to the extent they think you are not saved unless you do it their own legalistic way. They would also question your salvation as a woman because you cut your hair or might trim split ends. Look it up........ Truth matters.

 

[Dave L]

As far as I'm concerned, this is just you whining.

You need to do independent study and answer a few questions for yourself.

 

[justbyfaith]

Well, can you be saved trusting in works instead of Christ? The UPC believes in works salvation to the extent they think you are not saved unless you do it their own legalistic way. They would also question your salvation as a woman because you cut your hair or might trim split ends. Look it up........ Truth matters.

I think that what they are saying is that if you are really and truly born again, you will have obedience as the result of your living and saving faith in Jesus Christ.

My understanding of Oneness is that they do not teach salvation by works...however they do teach that those who are truly saved will walk in newness of life (Romans 6:4).

 

[justbyfaith]

You need to do independent study and answer a few questions for yourself.

I don't have any questions at the present moment.

 

[Dave L]

Is God the Father a man?

I have already answered this in post #675 (Trinity II).

God the Father is the Cause of the God the Son (begotten) which together with the Father is the cause of God the Holy Spirit from eternity. If the Father becomes the Son, God ceases to exist. Why? Because without the cause the effect would not exist.

 

[Helen]

Well, can you be saved trusting in works instead of Christ? The UPC believes in works salvation to the extent they think you are not saved unless you do it their own legalistic way. They would also question your salvation as a woman because you cut your hair or might trim split ends. Look it up........ Truth matters.

Thanks...but Nah!

 

[justbyfaith]

God the Father is the Cause of the God the Son (begotten) which together with the Father is the cause of God the Holy Spirit from eternity. If the Father becomes the Son, God ceases to exist. Why? Because without the cause the effect would not exist.

That is what I am saying...that God does not cease to exist outside of time when He descends to become the Son of God...see Ephesians 3:11 for more insight on this.

God the Father inhabits eternity...and the nature of eternity is that if anyone dwells in it, they dwell in it eternally.

 

[Dave L]

Thanks...but Nah!

Have you ever attended a UPC church?

 

[Dave L]

That is what I am saying...that God does not cease to exist outside of time when He descends to become the Son of God...see Ephesians 3:11 for more insight on this.

But the Father cannot be the cause of the Son if he becomes the Son. You cannot drive on an empty tank.

 

[justbyfaith]

But the Father cannot be the cause of the Son if he becomes the Son. You cannot drive on an empty tank.

edited post #697 (Trinity II).