Truth

[religusnut]

I read posts on this forum and others and it amazes me the wide variety of beliefs that exist in Christianity alone much less with those that profess to know God and don't profess to be Christians.

It is truly an amazing thing how so many people can get so far out there.

I had a missionary friend one time that said that he was in a foreign country and they were able to get bibles on that language pretty soon after arriving for the people there. He said that there was a powerful move of God taking place there and every body was excited. he said after about 6 months several different denominations showed up with their teaching literature and before long there was a terrible mess going on because there was no more agreement on what the Bible said.

The interesting thing also in all of this is that everybody believes what the Bible says if you ask them.

 

[bud02]

I think its unlikely that all the members of the community had a true new birth in Christ. That would explain the difference in understanding and its similarity to the world as a whole. The same thing happened while the Apostles lived also.

The interesting thing also in all of this is that everybody believes what the Bible says if you ask them.

This verse always comes to mind in context of differences in what may well be true born again Christians. Or each of us has a personal relationship with Jesus.

Philippians 2:12-13
[sup]12[/sup] Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling; [sup]13[/sup] for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure.

 

[mjrhealth]

Funny isnt it, they all read the bible, claim its Gods word, yet all have differnt understaning, like God is differnt to one and another. or His word changes from reader to reader. Isnt that why Jesus said, " I am the way the truth and the life", or paul who said ", the letter killeth but the spirit brings life", or Jesus who said, 'the words that I speak they are spirit and they are life" when people start listening to the holy spirit thetn and only then will truth prevail, as long as men follow men and the dead letter, all you will see is confusion.

In His Love

 

[religusnut]

Funny isnt it, they all read the bible, claim its Gods word, yet all have differnt understaning, like God is differnt to one and another. or His word changes from reader to reader. Isnt that why Jesus said, " I am the way the truth and the life", or paul who said ", the letter killeth but the spirit brings life", or Jesus who said, 'the words that I speak they are spirit and they are life" when people start listening to the holy spirit thetn and only then will truth prevail, as long as men follow men and the dead letter, all you will see is confusion.

In His Love

That is one thing that will get people really upset. Most groups seem to feel that they are hearing from the Holy Spirit. Course the ones that I see the most argument from are those that have never experienced The Holy Spirit and argue against anything to do with Him today.

 

[bud02]

So then the sheep know the shepherds voice. But its your discernment, and you can never offer positive proof that the Spirit within affirms what he or she has said is true.
Thats the important place scripture plays in a believers life, it our rock, reference that we discern or affirm the truth threw the Spirit, Apparently the advisory operates similarly threw scripture in a manner with different results, but the mirror christ is a false truth but its members all agree on the interpretation. All you can do is what Jesus did, speak what you know as truth, the Father will read their hearts and minds and cause them to hear with Spirit lead understanding or not.

 

[bigape]

Hello religusnut

Nice post.

The problem as I see it, is Satan’s attack upon the Church & humanity in general.....
Genesis 3:1
“Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?”
--------------------------------------------------
When you said........

“I had a missionary friend one time that said that he was in a foreign country and they were able to get bibles on that language pretty soon after arriving for the people there. He said that there was a powerful move of God taking place there and every body was excited. he said after about 6 months several different denominations showed up with their teaching literature and before long there was a terrible mess going on because there was no more agreement on what the Bible said.”

I also have many missionary friends, who have said almost the same thing:
Therefore, many of them have set up Bible colleges, for their indigenous pastors, to get them more solidly grounded in the Bible, so that when all these false teachers come to town, they will be able to overcome them.

Over the years, I have grown further away from the conclusion, of simply saying that every individual that is “off the wall” is unsaved.
I believe, that even true believers, who gets out from under good solid Bible based preaching, can become very confused very quickly.

The Bible says.......
1 Corinthians 3:18
“Let no man deceive himself. If any man among you seemeth to be wise in this world, let him become a fool, that he may be wise.”
1 John 1:8
“If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.”
James 1:22
“But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.”

There are three ways, that God says, we can become “self deceived”:
➀ By thinking that “we” have all the answered:
➁ Thinking that we are free of sin:
➂ Simply reading the Bible, but not applying it to our lives!

Every individual that falls into any of these traps, will be “self deceived” and won’t realize that they are on the wrong path.

Therefore, this explains the inexplicable situation you described........

The interesting thing also in all of this is that everybody believes what the Bible says if you ask them.

 

[religusnut]

So then the sheep know the shepherds voice. But its your discernment, and you can never offer positive proof that the Spirit within affirms what he or she has said is true.
Thats the important place scripture plays in a believers life, it our rock, reference that we discern or affirm the truth threw the Spirit, Apparently the advisory operates similarly threw scripture in a manner with different results, but the mirror christ is a false truth but its members all agree on the interpretation. All you can do is what Jesus did, speak what you know as truth, the Father will read their hearts and minds and cause them to hear with Spirit lead understanding or not.

Yes but you can look at even this forum and see that there are those that heave experienced the Holy Spirit and can line it up with scripture and they are usually shouted down as being in heresy.

 

[bud02]

Yes but you can look at even this forum and see that there are those that heave experienced the Holy Spirit and can line it up with scripture and they are usually shouted down as being in heresy.

Its sad but thats the facts. The reason I continue is I know from personal experience and from scripture, that some hear the truth as the Spirit speaks threw us. 99 times out of a hundred its not the one your speaking to but those that listen on the side. I have no false presumptions that Im going to some how change a lifetime of dead letter teachings as mjrhealth so nicely describes the blind. The enemy is always in our midst just as Judas was, and just as the Pharisees shouted down Jesus many on the sideline heard the truth and were saved. This site does seem to have an unusually large number of dead scripture teachers but that's why I stay. The harvest isn't in setting in a church every Sunday its in the streats, its in the hard places. Isn't that how and to whom Jesus went. The birds will always be here attacking the seeds of the Spirit. [font="Trebuchet MS][size="2"]And as he sowed, some seeds fell by the wayside, and the birds came and devoured them.[/size][/font][font="Trebuchet MS][size="2"] I guess what Im saying is don't be discouraged, many seek but few shall find; [/size][/font][font="Trebuchet MS][size="2"]but in hearing they are without excuse. [/size][/font]

Apply this parable to the Jewish nation in Jesus day or to the earth today, it makes no difference.

[font="Trebuchet MS] [/font][b][font="Trebuchet MS][size="2"]Mt 22.2-14 The kingdom of Heaven is like a certain king who made a marriage for his son. And he sent out his servants to call those who were invited to the wedding; and they would not come.

Again he sent out other servants, saying, Tell those who are invited, Behold, I have prepared my dinner; my oxen and fatlings are killed, and all things are ready. Come to the marriage. But not caring, they went their ways, one to his field, another to his trading. And the rest took his servants and treated them spitefully, and killed them.

But when the king heard, he was angry. And he sent out his armies and destroyed those murderers, and burned up their city.

Then he said to his servants, The wedding is ready, but they who were invited were not worthy. Therefore go into the exits of the highways, and as many as you shall find, invite them to the marriage.

So the servants went out into the highways and gathered together as many as they found, both bad and good. And the wedding was filled with reclining guests. And the king coming in to look over the guests, he saw a man there who did not have on a wedding garment. And he said to him, Friend, how did you come in here without having a wedding garment?

And he was speechless.

Then the king said to the servants, Bind him hand and foot and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness. There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. For many are called, but few chosen.[/size][/font][/b]
[font="Trebuchet MS] [/font][font="Trebuchet MS] [/font]

 

[marksman]

IThe interesting thing also in all of this is that everybody believes what the Bible says if you ask them.

Actually, what I think you will find is that no one believes what the bible says. What they believe is their interpretatioin of the bible.

 

[marksman]

Yes but you can look at even this forum and see that there are those that heave experienced the Holy Spirit and can line it up with scripture and they are usually shouted down as being in heresy.

This is an interesting one. I lived in England when the charismatic move took place in the 60s and 70s. I was at a Brethren Bible College at the time and ended up at a charismatic Brethren Assembly which was started by a Brethren Elder who had been baptised in the spirit. He was an Elder at his Assembly and he was told that he had to give up his charismatic experience or leave the Assembly, which is what he chose to do.

With his batpism in the Spirit he believed that the Holy Spirit would lead us into all truth as the scripture says. He encouraged everyone to hear from the Lord for themselves. They were not to rely on the leadership of the church because God wanted fellowship with his children, not his grandchildren. Every meeting at the church was open for anyone to share anything they got from the Lord.

Some times a person got a word of knowledge right there in the meeting for someone in the congregation. They would give it out and nine times out of ten someone would stand up and say "yes that is me". One example was a deacon who stood and said he had received a word about someone smoking and the number five. if the person would acknowledge this we would pray for them to be delivered from it. It was quiet for few minutes and then someone who had not been before stood up and said "that is me." I smoke five cigarettes every day."

They prayed for him and about six months later he visited again. During the meeeting he stood up and said that since that day, he has not smoked at all.

This was essential as it proved to be a training ground for everyone to learn whether what they had received was actually from the Lord or not. If it wasn't it tended to be flat and lifeless. if it was it tended to be life giving.

I have been in other churches where if you think you have something from the Lord, you have to get the approval from the pastor first before you can give it. In other words, only the pastor knows the voice of God for certainty.

The fact is that if the scripture says that the Holy Spirit will lead us into all truth, that is what we should expect to happen. The only way we will find out if what we are hearing is the truth from the Holy Spirit is to act on what we have been told. After spending 10 years in a church where you could act on what you heard from the Spirit means that you get pretty good at it. As they say practice makes perfect and the scripture says that the sheep know the voice of Jesus.

People who cast doubts on a person's ability to hear from God directly may have been taught that you don't hear from God that way as a means for the leadership to control the people or they insecure to the extent that if others hear from God they may be exposed as not as spiritual as they want people to think.

The other reason may be that if a person believes they have heard from God and come out with something that you disagree with because you see things differently, it may be a case it can't be from God because it doesn't line up with what you believe.

In the charismatic renewal people used to say "so you think your better than us because you have been baptised in the spirit?"

Today people say "so you think you are more superior to us because you hear from God" including christian forums.

Neither are true and neither are relevant.

 

[Anastacia]

Funny isnt it, they all read the bible, claim its Gods word, yet all have differnt understaning, like God is differnt to one and another. or His word changes from reader to reader. Isnt that why Jesus said, " I am the way the truth and the life", or paul who said ", the letter killeth but the spirit brings life", or Jesus who said, 'the words that I speak they are spirit and they are life" when people start listening to the holy spirit thetn and only then will truth prevail, as long as men follow men and the dead letter, all you will see is confusion.

In His Love

I'm just wondering why you quoted Paul here when he said "the letter killeth but the spirit brings life"? Paul was talking about the letter--- the law in the Old Testament. And what exactly do you mean by men follow the "dead letter"?

 

[bud02]

I'm just wondering why you quoted Paul here when he said "the letter killeth but the spirit brings life"? Paul was talking about the letter--- the law in the Old Testament. And what exactly do you mean by men follow the "dead letter"?

If I could answer for my fellow bond servant.

[sup]6[/sup] However, we speak wisdom among those who are mature, yet not the wisdom of this age, nor of the rulers of this age, who are coming to nothing. [sup]7[/sup] But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, the hidden wisdom which God ordained before the ages for our glory, [sup]8[/sup] which none of the rulers of this age knew; for had they known, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.
[sup]9[/sup] But as it is written:


“ Eye has not seen, nor ear heard,
Nor have entered into the heart of man
The things which God has prepared for those who love Him.”[sup][c][/sup]
[sup]10[/sup] But God has revealed them to us through His Spirit. For the Spirit searches all things, yes, the deep things of God. [sup]11[/sup] For what man knows the things of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so no one knows the things of God except the Spirit of God. [sup]12[/sup] Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might know the things that have been freely given to us by God.
[sup]13[/sup] These things we also speak, not in words which man’s wisdom teaches but which the Holy[sup][d][/sup] Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual. [sup]14[/sup] But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. [sup]15[/sup] But he who is spiritual judges all things, yet he himself is rightly judged by no one. [sup]16[/sup] For “who has known the mind of the LORD that he may instruct Him?”[sup][e][/sup] But we have the mind of Christ.

The dead letter is both the law by which you can never be saved, and those that no not the Spirit but teach.

 

[Anastacia]

If I could answer for my fellow bond servant.

[sup]6[/sup] However, we speak wisdom among those who are mature, yet not the wisdom of this age, nor of the rulers of this age, who are coming to nothing. [sup]7[/sup] But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, the hidden wisdom which God ordained before the ages for our glory, [sup]8[/sup] which none of the rulers of this age knew; for had they known, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.
[sup]9[/sup] But as it is written:


“ Eye has not seen, nor ear heard,
Nor have entered into the heart of man
The things which God has prepared for those who love Him.”[sup][c][/sup]
[sup]10[/sup] But God has revealed them to us through His Spirit. For the Spirit searches all things, yes, the deep things of God. [sup]11[/sup] For what man knows the things of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so no one knows the things of God except the Spirit of God. [sup]12[/sup] Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might know the things that have been freely given to us by God.
[sup]13[/sup] These things we also speak, not in words which man’s wisdom teaches but which the Holy[sup][d][/sup] Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual. [sup]14[/sup] But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. [sup]15[/sup] But he who is spiritual judges all things, yet he himself is rightly judged by no one. [sup]16[/sup] For “who has known the mind of the LORD that he may instruct Him?”[sup][e][/sup] But we have the mind of Christ.

The dead letter is both the law by which you can never be saved, and those that no not the Spirit but teach.

It really didn't help that you answered for mjrhealth. For one reason it didn't help is because what you posted has nothing to do with what I questioned mjrhealth about. My question is more about finding out if he thinks the written word of God in the New Testament are letters that kill.
When you say "...those that no not the Spirit but teach," are you saying those people can not save any one? If that is what you are saying, will you provide scripture? It sounds like man's wisdom and not God's.

 

[bud02]

When you say "...those that no not the Spirit but teach," are you saying those people can not save any one? If that is what you are saying, will you provide scripture? It sounds like man's wisdom and not God's.

I just did.

But as I told you before we speak a different language, so to keep from embarrassing you again I won't make you an example of the opening conversation.
You have already done that yourself. But rather I hope you to know the truth and understand what has already been said.

And by the way no man saves another, we simply lead the way.
















i

 

[Anastacia]

I just did.

But as I told you before we speak a different language, so to keep from embarrassing you again I won't make you an example of the opening conversation.
You have already done that yourself. But rather I hope you to know the truth and understand what has already been said.

And by the way no man saves another, we simply lead the way.





You never embarrassed me.

I don't deserve the way you are speaking to me. I want to get along with you. Please let's try.

And as for you saying "no man saves another, we simply lead the way"....that is not biblical.

Also, it is not biblical to say the second part of your comment--- "The dead letter is both the law by which you can never be saved, and those that no not the Spirit but teach."


Editing to show you scriptures about how a person can save another.

1 Corinthians 7:16 (about a husband saving his wife, or wife saving her husband)

1 Peter 3:1 (about winning over the husband (saving him) with your behavior)

Romans 11:14 (about Paul somehow arousing envy in his own people to save some of them.)