Two particular problems with dispensationalism...

[Stranger]

Stranger, this sounds like a reply to me.
Hope you're not getting me mixed up with Naomi??

(post 44 is mine, the quote you posted is Naomi's...)

Yes, post 44 was a reply to you, but I was alluding to it to Naomi. My explanation of how to prove the Tribulation by starting in the Old Testament seemed to fit there also.


Stranger

 

[bbyrd009]

I think he means Jesus is coming back in person.
Right now he's only here in Spirit.

yes, now we should prolly have a convo about what "thief in the night" means, before we go any further, see, bc He's back ok, as back as He's ever going to get, waiting right now, only God knows when, and ppl looking for Jesus to come back in "tomorrow" will kill you imo

 

[101G]

What 1,000 years?
Is this in a verse?
Probably Revelation. I don't think I've ever read that through once.
(oh my!)

GINOLJC, first thanks for the response. the 1,000 years, some say it's not literal, but metaphorically used. me, I take it literal, unless proven else wise. Revelation 20:4 "And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5 "But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection".

PCY.

 

[101G]

I think he means Jesus is coming back in person.
Right now he's only here in Spirit.

brilliant deduction, he is Coming in Bodily form, which is yet to happen. but you're correct of him now in Spirit.

and as for worrying about tommorrow. Matthew 6:33 "But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you. 34 "Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof".

PCY

 

[bbyrd009]

he is Coming in Bodily form, which is yet to happen

guess the current Body will have to drop dead or something then, huh

 

[GodsGrace]

yes, now we should prolly have a convo about what "thief in the night" means, before we go any further, see, bc He's back ok, as back as He's ever going to get, waiting right now, only God knows when, and ppl looking for Jesus to come back in "tomorrow" will kill you imo

I'm not home, but Jesus said He was coming back.
Do you need scripture?

 

[bbyrd009]

I'm not home, but Jesus said He was coming back.
Do you need scripture?

He came back already, in Spirit, and you are the Body now; need Scripture?

but pls understand that we are just talking about diff perceptions here, and you can try one or the other on, you don't have to identify with either one, ok. Judge by the fruit. Or Stay there for the present, if you like, ok, i have no objection

 

[Helen]

I marvel at the immense amount of study and data of some and their ability to draw so much worldly application out of the scriptures and the fact that they dedicate their whole live to it, without actually seeking God first, and without understanding what it is they are talking about, as if it were only literature. Which, means it's anything but simple. No, I would have to say, rather, that it is true that the scriptures must be discerned spiritually rather than scholarly, and that God in His apropos justice rightfully favors the simple with advantage.

I agree...and at times it is quite worrying.
Is that not the danger of becoming religion v relationship?
The couple who first share with us what I call "the deeper things of God" are wonderful people...but I remember walking with the wife once and she shared with me her worry about her husband. he 'fell out of bed in the morning' with the bible in his hand, and studied meanings of words and types, shadows, symbols, Hebrew , Greek, biblical numerology, end time prophesy..and you name it...her worry was , he was so caught up with studies which engaged his mind...he never seemed to pray or invest any time whatsoever with God Himself...his relationship was with the Bible, and not any more with the Author of The Book!!!!

 

[GodsGrace]

guess the current Body will have to drop dead or something then, huh

Did you ever hear of a glorified body?
That's what Jesus has now, not a body like ours.

 

[Helen]

ha, so weird how i can agree with every word here, yet we are talking about two completely diff things lol

Agree...what it means to one...it means something totally different to another. lol

 

[bbyrd009]

Did you ever hear of a glorified body?
That's what Jesus has now, not a body like ours.

well, we, ppl, are the Body of Christ, however you care to work that in i guess.
Jesus' Glorified Body really has no practical app that i can discern;
no fruit, iow, at least that i can tell, except for purposes of religious ritual?

see, focussing on the one more or less precludes any manifestation of the real, other one, imo.
If one is looking for Jesus to come back, with their eyes, they by definition have issues with considering themselves Christ's literal Body

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Did you ever hear of a glorified body?
That's what Jesus has now, not a body like ours.

GodsGrace, I am right there with you in being confused, so in no way is this leading or disagreeing with you. You said Christ has a glorified body. Who is His body?

 

[Helen]

well, we, ppl, are the Body of Christ, however you care to work that in i guess.
Jesus' Glorified Body really has no practical app that i can discern;
no fruit, iow, at least that i can tell, except for purposes of religious ritual?

see, focussing on the one more or less precludes any manifestation of the real, other one, imo.
If one is looking for Jesus to come back, with their eyes, they by definition have issues with considering themselves Christ's literal Body

Agree with post but do not understand the line I made BOLD..what are you saying here? It went over my head.

Strange how when I was younger I loved all this dispensational stuff...but now I seem to feel..." does it really matter? If I am not 'walking the walk'..then what I believe or don't ....won't help me one bit.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Romans 8:19
[19] For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.

1 John 3:2
[2] Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

His body does not yet appear? but will manifest? As the Lamb that takes away sin was manifested in the time of Salvation?

Why does it matter?
1 John 3:3-6
[3] And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure. [4] Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. [5] And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin. [6] Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

 

[bbyrd009]

Agree with post but do not understand the line I made BOLD..what are you saying here? It went over my head.

making Jesus into an icon to be worshipped is not fruitful imo (Esau, denying his birthright, prolly)
following Christ, as in recognizing that we are the Body of Christ (Jacob; one who "takes by the heel," renamed Is~ra~el), is a completely different concept, and the two have only barely any connection IRL; in the language i guess mostly. The language of the second might be appropriated by the first, and so the same phrase can be understood from a completely different premise iow

If I am not 'walking the walk'..then what I believe or don't ....won't help me one bit.

pretty much a restatement of the concepts involved i guess, yes
(still looking for @Miss Hepburn 's little smilie lol; that one is like devious or cavalier or something)

 

[101G]

GodsGrace, I am right there with you in being confused, so in no way is this leading or disagreeing with you. You said Christ has a glorified body. Who is His body?

Yes, Jesus have a glorified body, and he is Spirit that dwells in us. he Came in spirit on Pentecost, and now dwells by Spirit in all believers. why you think he went to the Father, "TO BE GLORIFIED IN SPIRIT. for he is God that fills both heaven and earth, which includes us his MANIFESTED body on EARTH, until he returns in his OWN.

PCY

 

[ScottA]

I agree...and at times it is quite worrying.
Is that not the danger of becoming religion v relationship?
The couple who first share with us what I call "the deeper things of God" are wonderful people...but I remember walking with the wife once and she shared with me her worry about her husband. he 'fell out of bed in the morning' with the bible in his hand, and studied meanings of words and types, shadows, symbols, Hebrew , Greek, biblical numerology, end time prophesy..and you name it...her worry was , he was so caught up with studies which engaged his mind...he never seemed to pray or invest any time whatsoever with God Himself...his relationship was with the Bible, and not any more with the Author of The Book!!!!

I see the problem. I suppose, like many things, it is possible to be one or be the other. In other words, if he spent that time with the Word, in person, then He has his relationship. But if he spent that time as a literary study, he may well have missed the point.

Ecclesiastes 12:12
And further, my son, be admonished by these. Of making many books there is no end, and much study is wearisome to the flesh.

 

[Stranger]

Romans 8:19
[19] For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.

1 John 3:2
[2] Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

His body does not yet appear? but will manifest? As the Lamb that takes away sin was manifested in the time of Salvation?

Why does it matter?
1 John 3:3-6
[3] And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure. [4] Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. [5] And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin. [6] Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

Exactly right. The 'hope' of verse 3 is described in verse 2. "Beloved now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him;....And every man that hath this hope purifieth himself...."

How can one have this 'hope' and not be interested in what God has revealed in Scripture concerning this 'hope'?

How can one walk with the Lord and reject as a non-issue that which the Lord has revealed to us?

How can one walk with the Lord when rejecting that which God the Father revealed to the Son and Jesus Christ in turn revealed to John for us? The whole book of (Revelation).

Stranger

 

[Helen]

making Jesus into an icon to be worshipped is not fruitful imo (Esau, denying his birthright, prolly)
following Christ, as in recognizing that we are the Body of Christ (Jacob; one who "takes by the heel," renamed Is~ra~el), is a completely different concept, and the two have only barely any connection IRL; in the language i guess mostly. The language of the second might be appropriated by the first, and so the same phrase can be understood from a completely different premise iow
pretty much a restatement of the concepts involved i guess, yes

Thanks for response.
I thought that we all worship Jesus as the Glorified Lord!

What I have more problem with is people who still 'worship' Jesus as the human man with long hair, sandals. He was only here for 33 years, He IS the glorified Lord...
But you seem to see things differently...and I don't understand yet. ??

 

[Stranger]

Thanks for response.
I thought that we all worship Jesus as the Glorified Lord!

What I have more problem with is people who still 'worship' Jesus as the human man with long hair, sandals. He was only here for 33 years, He IS the glorified Lord...
But you seem to see things differently...and I don't understand yet. ??

We worship Jesus as the God/Man. We worship Him who was here for 33 years and who now sits at the right hand of God. They are One and the Same.

He sees things different cause he is an idiot.

Stranger