Two Ways of thinking about OSAS

[H. Richard]

Jesus warned us, by using a parable of 'seeds falling on different ground'. Our greatest problem, is CONTINUING in our faith, and ceasing to remain as 'babes sucking milk', or returning to a life of sin. Jesus told us, that becoming saved a second time, is like crucifying Him for a second time.

What do you see as continuing in the faith? What is faith to you?

Is it trying not to sin or building confidence in what Jesus did on the cross?

 

[Phoneman777]

1 John 2:1

Hey, Stan, I thought you blocked me?

 

[Phoneman777]

What do you see as continuing in the faith? What is faith to you?

Is it trying not to sin or building confidence in what Jesus did on the cross?

H, please allow me to interject - why this false dichotomy of "faith vs. works"? Does a loving husband "try" not to beat his wife or does he find even the thought of that disgusting beyond measure? Likewise, a converted Christian always, immediately, with utmost urgency calls on the name of God to drive out tempting thoughts as soon as they rear their ugly head, if he cares anything at all that it was he who swung that disgusting hammer and nailed Jesus to the Cross with his sin. It doesn't matter how many times false prophets climb in the pulpit and salve and soothe Christians by the false notion that being a Christian means both God and the Devil have joint custody of the church. That is a lie straight from the pits of hell. Christians don't "try" to do anything - they "do" or they are not Christians, period.

Last night, I drove up to three prostitutes dressed as provocatively as can be, and if I didn't have the love of Jesus in me and a knowledge that Jesus loves them deeply and desperately wants them saved into His kingdom, I might have offered them $$$ instead of a heart full, not with lust, but with the love of Christ, His compassion and understanding, and three wonderful Bible tracts entitled "What Must I Do To Be Saved?"

Continuing in the faith is continuing to engage in a day by day, moment by moment loving, surrendered relationship with God and service to Him, as well as living to lead others into that same relationship, period. It is a "faith which works by love".

 

[H. Richard]

H, please allow me to interject - why this false dichotomy of "faith vs. works"? Does a loving husband "try" not to beat his wife or does he find even the thought of that disgusting beyond measure? Likewise, a converted Christian always, immediately, with utmost urgency calls on the name of God to drive out tempting thoughts as soon as they rear their ugly head, if he cares anything at all that it was he who swung that disgusting hammer and nailed Jesus to the Cross with his sin. It doesn't matter how many times false prophets climb in the pulpit and salve and soothe Christians by the false notion that being a Christian means both God and the Devil have joint custody of the church. That is a lie straight from the pits of hell. Christians don't "try" to do anything - they "do" or they are not Christians, period.

Last night, I drove up to three prostitutes dressed as provocatively as can be, and if I didn't have the love of Jesus in me and a knowledge that Jesus loves them deeply and desperately wants them saved into His kingdom, I might have offered them $$$ instead of a heart full, not with lust, but with the love of Christ, His compassion and understanding, and three wonderful Bible tracts entitled "What Must I Do To Be Saved?"

Continuing in the faith is continuing to engage in a day by day, moment by moment loving, surrendered relationship with God and service to Him, as well as living to lead others into that same relationship, period. It is a "faith which works by love".

Did I miss it? I don't think you said anything about building confidence in what Jesus did on the cross. After all, isn't that what we are supposed to express to others? Or is it that we should say to them, look at me, I do all these good deeds for others and you must do them too. I think the children of God do good deeds and they don't need others to kick them to do more.

I do not agree that a child of God must be what others think he/she should be. I am a child of God, made one by belief, faith, trust and confidence in what Jesus did for me on the cross. That is what I offer to those who are not saved. Something for them to see in me, my confidence in God, not my works. Now people can judge me for any sin they wish but I will only answer to God, the one who saved me. I will not tell others that they must stop sinning and do the works for others that I say they must. I live in sinful flesh and God has made a way for me to be His child and for all others that will place their belief, trust, faith and confidence in His work on the cross. That is the most wonderful message I can give anyone.

You said; "Christians don't "try" to do anything - they "do" or they are not Christians, period." What kind of judgement is that? Perhaps you should realize that the child of God only has to answer to God. What they do is between them and God.

Rom 14:4
4 Who are you to judge another's servant? To his own master he stands or falls. Indeed, he will be made to stand, for God is able to make him stand.
NKJV

There is no way under heaven that after Jesus has removed the burden of my sins of the flesh that I am going to place that burden on others.

 

[Phoneman777]

Did I miss it? I don't think you said anything about building confidence in what Jesus did on the cross. After all, isn't that what we are supposed to express to others? Or is it that we should say to them, look at me, I do all these good deeds for others and you must do them too. I think the children of God do good deeds and they don't need others to kick them to do more.

I do not agree that a child of God must be what others think he/she should be. I am a child of God, made one by belief, faith, trust and confidence in what Jesus did for me on the cross. That is what I offer to those who are not saved. Something for them to see in me, my confidence in God, not my works. Now people can judge me for any sin they wish but I will only answer to God, the one who saved me. I will not tell others that they must stop sinning and do the works for others that I say they must. I live in sinful flesh and God has made a way for me to be His child and for all others that will place their belief, trust, faith and confidence in His work on the cross. That is the most wonderful message I can give anyone.

You said; "Christians don't "try" to do anything - they "do" or they are not Christians, period." What kind of judgement is that? Perhaps you should realize that the child of God only has to answer to God. What they do is between them and God.

Rom 14:4
4 Who are you to judge another's servant? To his own master he stands or falls. Indeed, he will be made to stand, for God is able to make him stand.
NKJV

There is no way under heaven that after Jesus has removed the burden of my sins of the flesh that I am going to place that burden on others.

We should read and accept the whole Bible, and not just the parts that appeal to us: "Hereby we do know that we know Him if we keep His commandments. He that saith, I know Him, and keepeth not His commandments is a liar and the truth is not in Him." (1 John 2:3-4 KJV) It is the Word of God that condemns those who willfully refuse to keep God's commandments as "lost liars", not the word of me or any other church member. We are prohibited from judging another's eternal destiny based on his actions, and rightly so due to our inability to see into his heart, but we are also commanded to preach the Word of God, which includes the verse above. Preach the word, that the Holy Spirit and the individual's own heart may condemn him, that he would turn from his sin and seek repentance. (1 John 3:20-21 KJV)

Paul says those "who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory, honor, and immortality" will be granted what they seek: eternal life. By this, does Paul claim they are earning it? No. Paul knows what just about everyone today in the church is ignorant of (and possibly you until now) - not one person can accomplish the least act of obedience without first being converted from a sinner to a saint by the indwelling power of the Holy Spirit: "For the carnal mind is enmity with God. It is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can it be." Romans 8:7 KJV

A fellow worker's report from the harvest field is welcomed with rejoicing by his fellow workers, but despised as braggadocios words by those know they are to be engaged in obedient service to the Master, but have yet to pick up their sickle. Strive to be among those who work not to gain heaven, but work because they are already heaven bound.

 

[StanJ]

Hey, Stan, I thought you blocked me?

I did, now I've unblocked you. I always revisit my ignore list.

 

[Phoneman777]

I did, now I've unblocked you. I always revisit my ignore list.

Well, thanks. I'll have to do the same, b/c I can't remember if I've ever blocked anyone.

 

[H. Richard]

We should read and accept the whole Bible, and not just the parts that appeal to us: "Hereby we do know that we know Him if we keep His commandments. He that saith, I know Him, and keepeth not His commandments is a liar and the truth is not in Him." (1 John 2:3-4 KJV) It is the Word of God that condemns those who willfully refuse to keep God's commandments as "lost liars", not the word of me or any other church member. We are prohibited from judging another's eternal destiny based on his actions, and rightly so due to our inability to see into his heart, but we are also commanded to preach the Word of God, which includes the verse above. Preach the word, that the Holy Spirit and the individual's own heart may condemn him, that he would turn from his sin and seek repentance. (1 John 3:20-21 KJV)

Paul says those "who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory, honor, and immortality" will be granted what they seek: eternal life. By this, does Paul claim they are earning it? No. Paul knows what just about everyone today in the church is ignorant of (and possibly you until now) - not one person can accomplish the least act of obedience without first being converted from a sinner to a saint by the indwelling power of the Holy Spirit: "For the carnal mind is enmity with God. It is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can it be." Romans 8:7 KJV

A fellow worker's report from the harvest field is welcomed with rejoicing by his fellow workers, but despised as braggadocios words by those know they are to be engaged in obedient service to the Master, but have yet to pick up their sickle. Strive to be among those who work not to gain heaven, but work because they are already heaven bound.

Spoken like a true religious person that thinks he must take everything in the Bible and apply it to salvation regardless of who it is directed to.. Since you say you think everything in the Bible is written to you which Jewish temple do you worship in? Which Rabbi or Priest do you confess to? Do you not walk over the maximum number of steps on the Sabbath day. Do you take your animal to your church to be sacrifice? The scriptures say we must "rightly divide the word of God" not blend it all together.

Jesus gave Paul the gospel of grace. You can't mix law with grace.

You said "can accomplish the least act of obedience without first being converted from a sinner to a saint by the indwelling power of the Holy Spirit"

I bet you think you are a saint? Tell me, when did you reach this sinless obedient perfection?

You must not understand that we are made saints by our faith in what Jesus did on the cross, not by what we do. We have been born again of the Holy Spirit by God, not by our works. Every child of God has two natures, one of the sinful flesh and one by the Holy Spirit. You should really read Romans 7.

A child of God is obedient when he/she believes what God says. God said, through Paul, that we are not saved by our works but by faith in the work of God's Son on the cross. To take credit for being a saint by your obedience to commandments is an affront to God and belittles Jesus' work. God knows we can not be obedient to laws and that is why He has made a salvation the only requires that we place our faith in His work on the cross.

 

[Phoneman777]

Spoken like a true religious person that thinks he must take everything in the Bible and apply it to salvation regardless of who it is directed to.. Since you say you think everything in the Bible is written to you which Jewish temple do you worship in? Which Rabbi or Priest do you confess to? Do you not walk over the maximum number of steps on the Sabbath day. Do you take your animal to your church to be sacrifice? The scriptures say we must "rightly divide the word of God" not blend it all together.

Jesus gave Paul the gospel of grace. You can't mix law with grace.

You said "can accomplish the least act of obedience without first being converted from a sinner to a saint by the indwelling power of the Holy Spirit"

I bet you think you are a saint? Tell me, when did you reach this sinless obedient perfection?

You must not understand that we are made saints by our faith in what Jesus did on the cross, not by what we do. We have been born again of the Holy Spirit by God, not by our works. Every child of God has two natures, one of the sinful flesh and one by the Holy Spirit. You should really read Romans 7.

A child of God is obedient when he/she believes what God says. God said, through Paul, that we are not saved by our works but by faith in the work of God's Son on the cross. To take credit for being a saint by your obedience to commandments is an affront to God and belittles Jesus' work. God knows we can not be obedient to laws and that is why He has made a salvation the only requires that we place our faith in His work on the cross.

Wrong. Faith without works is dead faith which can't save anybody, friend.

Why do you liberals always attempt to mischaracterize the good works of a believer as an "attempt to gain heaven by his own merits", when you're told time and time again that without the grace and power of Jesus, the least act of obedience is impossible? Does the fact that others overcome sin by the grace and power of Jesus expose you as a sin loving hypocrite, friend? I hope not. It is as if you believe the evidence of Christ in the heart is a life marked with on sin after another, while those who are seeking to "walk even as He walked" above sin are criticized. They hated Jesus for His purity, and those who strive for purity will be hated as well, so you'd do well to examine yourself, as James says, to see if you are in the faith.

Your reasoning is what gives Christianity a bad name. It leads to a defeatist attitude, leaving no desire to "resist the devil" or "striving against sin", to the point that those outside the church don't feel any need to come out from among their crowd outside the church because inside the church is just as bad. Stop focusing on what you can't do in your own strength and start focusing on what "Christ in you" can accomplish for His glory and honor. What a sad state of affairs we are in when Christians walk around calling themselves "more than conquerors" when they don't even bother to pick up the armor of God and fight. Sad indeed.

 

[H. Richard]

Wrong. Faith without works is dead faith which can't save anybody, friend.

Why do you liberals always attempt to mischaracterize the good works of a believer as an "attempt to gain heaven by his own merits", when you're told time and time again that without the grace and power of Jesus, the least act of obedience is impossible? Does the fact that others overcome sin by the grace and power of Jesus expose you as a sin loving hypocrite, friend? I hope not. It is as if you believe the evidence of Christ in the heart is a life marked with on sin after another, while those who are seeking to "walk even as He walked" above sin are criticized. They hated Jesus for His purity, and those who strive for purity will be hated as well, so you'd do well to examine yourself, as James says, to see if you are in the faith.

Your reasoning is what gives Christianity a bad name. It leads to a defeatist attitude, leaving no desire to "resist the devil" or "striving against sin", to the point that those outside the church don't feel any need to come out from among their crowd outside the church because inside the church is just as bad. Stop focusing on what you can't do in your own strength and start focusing on what "Christ in you" can accomplish for His glory and honor. What a sad state of affairs we are in when Christians walk around calling themselves "more than conquerors" when they don't even bother to pick up the armor of God and fight. Sad indeed.

Don't call me friend when you know that we are not friends. My friends are the children of God that have been made children by their faith (trust) in what Jesus did on the cross (Paul's gospel). They are sinners saved by the grace of God when He (Jesus) shed His blood on the cross.

Oh, I forgot, you don't know much about the work of Jesus on the cross since you never mention it. All you talk about is man's works.

Show me those that have overcome sins of the flesh by their will and never sin anymore. Everyone on this planet sins everyday. To hear what you are saying means that there are perfect people that never sin on this earth. Therefore show me where they exist. Are you claiming you never sin any longer?

If you still sin in the flesh then what you have written is just a lot of B S to say you are perfect.

The children of God do not sin, not because they do not sin in the flesh, but because the shed blood of Jesus has paid for their sins of the flesh (Romans 7).

I see you use the book of James to say faith without works is dead. A book that was written to the Jews only (James 1:1) who were under the Law of Moses. Under the Law if a person did not do the works required under the law, that person's works were dead in that they didn't keep the law.

You can't mix grace with the law. Grace is a free gift of salvation by faith in the work of Jesus on the cross. Law is a person earns salvation by what they do. Under law there is no gift. When a person tries to be saved by their own works they deny what Jesus did for them.

 

[Phoneman777]

Don't call me friend when you know that we are not friends. My friends are the children of God that have been made children by their faith (trust) in what Jesus did on the cross (Paul's gospel). They are sinners saved by the grace of God when He (Jesus) shed His blood on the cross.

Oh, I forgot, you don't know much about the work of Jesus on the cross since you never mention it. All you talk about is man's works.

Show me those that have overcome sins of the flesh by their will and never sin anymore. Everyone on this planet sins everyday. To hear what you are saying means that there are perfect people that never sin on this earth. Therefore show me where they exist. Are you claiming you never sin any longer?

If you still sin in the flesh then what you have written is just a lot of B S to say you are perfect.

The children of God do not sin, not because they do not sin in the flesh, but because the shed blood of Jesus has paid for their sins of the flesh (Romans 7).

I see you use the book of James to say faith without works is dead. A book that was written to the Jews only (James 1:1) who were under the Law of Moses. Under the Law if a person did not do the works required under the law, that person's works were dead in that they didn't keep the law.

You can't mix grace with the law. Grace is a free gift of salvation by faith in the work of Jesus on the cross. Law is a person earns salvation by what they do. Under law there is no gift. When a person tries to be saved by their own works they deny what Jesus did for them.

You may not like me calling you friend, but do you know anyone who would let you spit in their face and still love and pray for you? I would. Jesus loves you and I for the people that we might become through His indwelling power, regardless if we still choose to reject Him, and I love those who Jesus loves, friend.

Of course grace is a free gift. Once accepted, does a grace saved Christian then go on to drive nails into Jesus' hands and feet and "crucify the Son of God afresh and put Him to an open shame"? No, but there are many hypocrites among us who readily acknowledge grace as pardon for breaking the law alone but refuse to acknowledge it as power to obey the law, as well. Grace is both pardon and power, as Paul reveals in this warning to us:

"Shall we sin because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid. Know ye not to whom you yield yourselves servants to obey his servants you are to whom you obey, whether sin unto DEATH or obedience unto righteousness."

 

[Dcopymope]

You may not like me calling you friend, but do you know anyone who would let you spit in their face and still love and pray for you? I would. Jesus loves you and I for the people that we might become through His indwelling power, regardless if we still choose to reject Him, and I love those who Jesus loves, friend.

Of course grace is a free gift. Once accepted, does a grace saved Christian then go on to drive nails into Jesus' hands and feet and "crucify the Son of God afresh and put Him to an open shame"? No, but there are many hypocrites among us who readily acknowledge grace as pardon for breaking the law alone but refuse to acknowledge it as power to obey the law, as well. Grace is both pardon and power, as Paul reveals in this warning to us:

"Shall we sin because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid. Know ye not to whom you yield yourselves servants to obey his servants you are to whom you obey, whether sin unto DEATH or obedience unto righteousness."

I think one of the key ingredients to this argument you two are missing relies in the entire point of why anyone would want to repent of their sins to become the bride of Christ to begin with. When you are forgiven of your sins, or pardoned, and made blameless before the Father through the blood atonement of his son, it henceforth bails you out of the great white throne of judgement that every unbeliever will face when they stand before God. Jesus, as the bailout, paid the ransom for your soul. Once you accept the ransom, your crimes will be expunged and your record will be wiped clean in the eyes of the Father only because he see's his only begotten son in you. Even though the power of the holy spirit would give you the power to obey the law, this does not mean that you will never sin again, which is why daily repentance is necessary to maintain the close relationship with the Father in heaven. When it comes to the once saved, always saved doctrine, the key to understanding why this is the correct way in understanding the Gospel message is in daily repentance, so that your record can remain clean of all criminal activity, past present and future. The fervent prayer of the righteous availeth much.

(1 John 1:6-10) "If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth: {7} But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. {8} If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. {9} If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. {10} If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us."

 

[H. Richard]

You may not like me calling you friend, but do you know anyone who would let you spit in their face and still love and pray for you? I would. Jesus loves you and I for the people that we might become through His indwelling power, regardless if we still choose to reject Him, and I love those who Jesus loves, friend.

Of course grace is a free gift. Once accepted, does a grace saved Christian then go on to drive nails into Jesus' hands and feet and "crucify the Son of God afresh and put Him to an open shame"? No, but there are many hypocrites among us who readily acknowledge grace as pardon for breaking the law alone but refuse to acknowledge it as power to obey the law, as well. Grace is both pardon and power, as Paul reveals in this warning to us:

"Shall we sin because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid. Know ye not to whom you yield yourselves servants to obey his servants you are to whom you obey, whether sin unto DEATH or obedience unto righteousness."

Obviously you did not read what I wrote since you are just trying to say we are under law.

I have never met a person who is without sin. You seem to claim that you are since all you are saying is that we must not sin.

 

[H. Richard]

I think one of the key ingredients to this argument you two are missing relies in the entire point of why anyone would want to repent of their sins to become the bride of Christ to begin with. When you are forgiven of your sins, or pardoned, and made blameless before the Father through the blood atonement of his son, it henceforth bails you out of the great white throne of judgement that every unbeliever will face when they stand before God. Jesus, as the bailout, paid the ransom for your soul. Once you accept the ransom, your crimes will be expunged and your record will be wiped clean in the eyes of the Father only because he see's his only begotten son in you. Even though the power of the holy spirit would give you the power to obey the law, this does not mean that you will never sin again, which is why daily repentance is necessary to maintain the close relationship with the Father in heaven. When it comes to the once saved, always saved doctrine, the key to understanding why this is the correct way in understanding the Gospel message is in daily repentance, so that your record can remain clean of all criminal activity, past present and future. The fervent prayer of the righteous availeth much.

What is the difference between repenting daily and having an attitude of knowing you are a sinner in the flesh and need the shed blood of Jesus to pay for your sins. I have already posted the following:

True Repentance:

I believe that repentance is necessary for the child of God. But that repentance is not a ritual that is done when they think they have sinned. I believe in a repentant attitude, an attitude of continually acknowledging, to God, that the sins of the flesh are always present in the mind.

Having said the above I must state that, to some, repentance seems to means that they perform a ritual of repentance. I do not believe that knowing you have committed a sin and then pulling down your get out of sin repentance card is true repentance. It ignores the fact that they sin in their minds all the time.

In this article I have said what I believe true repentance to be. Some seen to have a different opinion and they are welcome to it. But that does not mean I have to share their opinion OR that they have to share mine.

IMHO (In my honest opinion), to the religious mind, repenting of sins is something that a person does, at some time or other, to ask for forgiveness for a sin they think they have committed. I say it this way because, for them, they must pick a time and go to God in a prayer of words and ask for forgiveness for that sin. They do it only when they think they have done something wrong. For the rest of their time they rationalize that they do not sin and therefore do not have to repent. When they do this it shows they do not trust in the blood of Jesus that has already paid for those sins.

True repentance "IS" a "CONSTANT ATTITUDE" of the heart and is not an action that is done at some place or time. --- It is constantly acknowledging (admitting to God) that you are a sinful person in the flesh and that you need His forgiveness, the need for God, who paid for your sins, to save you from your sinful nature in the flesh. -- It is a constant humble walk with God (the Holy Spirit that lives in your heart) in honesty, without deceit. -- To be exact it is and attitude of the heart and it is not a ritual that you do at some place or time.

1. A repenting; penitent state; feeling of sorrow, etc. especially for wrongdoing; compunction, contrition; remorse. A child of God feels remorseful that he/she sins but since they live in a body of sinful flesh there is no way they can stop from sinning in the flesh. Paul couldn’t in Romans 7 and neither can we.

Ps 32:1-2
1 Blessed is he whose transgression is forgiven, whose sin is covered.
2 Blessed is the man to whom the LORD does not impute iniquity, and in whose spirit there is no deceit.
(NKJ)

Deceit = dishonesty / a person saying they have no sin is being dishonest (deceitful) with God. Therefore having a constant honest attitude of acknowledging your sinful nature to God and placing your faith, trust, confidence, and hope in God's work on the cross to save you from your sinful nature is true repentance. A person that does not acknowledge his/her sins (sinful nature) is being dishonest with God and will feel no need to have an constant attitude of repentance. IMHO they are like the Pharisee below.

Luke 18:11-14
11 "The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, 'God, I thank You that I am not like other men-- extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this tax collector.
12 'I fast twice a week; I give tithes of all that I possess.'
13 "And the tax collector, standing afar off, would not so much as raise his eyes to heaven, but beat his breast, saying, 'God, be merciful to me a sinner!'
14 "I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other; for everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted."
(NKJ)

The tax collector was repenting, he was sorrowful, contrite, remorseful, because of his sinfulness. But that does not mean he stopped being a sinful person or a tax collector.

It seems that this is not enough for some to comprehend.

Some wish to be religious policemen on the forums. They think that they know the truth in the scriptures, feel that others do not, and that the forum must be protected from those that do not believe as they do. When they enter into a discussion it is not to "share" what they believe but to "impose" what they believe on others or to destroy what another believes. This is a very serious attitude problem.

 

[Dcopymope]

What is the difference between repenting daily and having an attitude of knowing you are a sinner in the flesh and need the shed blood of Jesus to pay for your sins. I have already posted the following:

True Repentance:

I believe that repentance is necessary for the child of God. But that repentance is not a ritual that is done when they think they have sinned. I believe in a repentant attitude, an attitude of continually acknowledging, to God, that the sins of the flesh are always present in the mind.

Having said the above I must state that, to some, repentance seems to means that they perform a ritual of repentance. I do not believe that knowing you have committed a sin and then pulling down your get out of sin repentance card is true repentance. It ignores the fact that they sin in their minds all the time.

In this article I have said what I believe true repentance to be. Some seen to have a different opinion and they are welcome to it. But that does not mean I have to share their opinion OR that they have to share mine.

IMHO (In my honest opinion), to the religious mind, repenting of sins is something that a person does, at some time or other, to ask for forgiveness for a sin they think they have committed. I say it this way because, for them, they must pick a time and go to God in a prayer of words and ask for forgiveness for that sin. They do it only when they think they have done something wrong. For the rest of their time they rationalize that they do not sin and therefore do not have to repent. When they do this it shows they do not trust in the blood of Jesus that has already paid for those sins.

True repentance "IS" a "CONSTANT ATTITUDE" of the heart and is not an action that is done at some place or time. --- It is constantly acknowledging (admitting to God) that you are a sinful person in the flesh and that you need His forgiveness, the need for God, who paid for your sins, to save you from your sinful nature in the flesh. -- It is a constant humble walk with God (the Holy Spirit that lives in your heart) in honesty, without deceit. -- To be exact it is and attitude of the heart and it is not a ritual that you do at some place or time.

1. A repenting; penitent state; feeling of sorrow, etc. especially for wrongdoing; compunction, contrition; remorse. A child of God feels remorseful that he/she sins but since they live in a body of sinful flesh there is no way they can stop from sinning in the flesh. Paul couldn’t in Romans 7 and neither can we.

Ps 32:1-2
1 Blessed is he whose transgression is forgiven, whose sin is covered.
2 Blessed is the man to whom the LORD does not impute iniquity, and in whose spirit there is no deceit.
(NKJ)

Deceit = dishonesty / a person saying they have no sin is being dishonest (deceitful) with God. Therefore having a constant honest attitude of acknowledging your sinful nature to God and placing your faith, trust, confidence, and hope in God's work on the cross to save you from your sinful nature is true repentance. A person that does not acknowledge his/her sins (sinful nature) is being dishonest with God and will feel no need to have an constant attitude of repentance. IMHO they are like the Pharisee below.

Luke 18:11-14
11 "The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, 'God, I thank You that I am not like other men-- extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this tax collector.
12 'I fast twice a week; I give tithes of all that I possess.'
13 "And the tax collector, standing afar off, would not so much as raise his eyes to heaven, but beat his breast, saying, 'God, be merciful to me a sinner!'
14 "I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other; for everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted."
(NKJ)

The tax collector was repenting, he was sorrowful, contrite, remorseful, because of his sinfulness. But that does not mean he stopped being a sinful person or a tax collector.

It seems that this is not enough for some to comprehend.

Some wish to be religious policemen on the forums. They think that they know the truth in the scriptures, feel that others do not, and that the forum must be protected from those that do not believe as they do. When they enter into a discussion it is not to "share" what they believe but to "impose" what they believe on others or to destroy what another believes. This is a very serious attitude problem.

Yeah.....what you said was basically what I meant regarding the role of repentance in the doctrine of once saved always saved. Once this is understood, it should become clear to everyone.

 

[Phoneman777]

I think one of the key ingredients to this argument you two are missing relies in the entire point of why anyone would want to repent of their sins to become the bride of Christ to begin with. When you are forgiven of your sins, or pardoned, and made blameless before the Father through the blood atonement of his son, it henceforth bails you out of the great white throne of judgement that every unbeliever will face when they stand before God. Jesus, as the bailout, paid the ransom for your soul. Once you accept the ransom, your crimes will be expunged and your record will be wiped clean in the eyes of the Father only because he see's his only begotten son in you. Even though the power of the holy spirit would give you the power to obey the law, this does not mean that you will never sin again, which is why daily repentance is necessary to maintain the close relationship with the Father in heaven. When it comes to the once saved, always saved doctrine, the key to understanding why this is the correct way in understanding the Gospel message is in daily repentance, so that your record can remain clean of all criminal activity, past present and future. The fervent prayer of the righteous availeth much.

Yet, OSAS rejects the notion that daily repentance is necessary. I believe it is and that it forms a part of the whole "abiding in the Vine" relationship. The Vine is not some horticultural Boa Constrictor that grabs us and refused to let go, as OSAS would like the case to be, but we much daily choose to abide there, else why would Jesus even command us to do so in the first place if we had no choice in the matter?

 

[Phoneman777]

Obviously you did not read what I wrote since you are just trying to say we are under law.

I have never met a person who is without sin. You seem to claim that you are since all you are saying is that we must not sin.

Actually, you've misunderstood what I've been saying. The Bible is clear that there is always forgiveness for us if we slip and fall down into sin (Proverbs 24:16 KJV), but there is not one shred of forgiveness available to those who deliberately sit down in it and refuse to get up and leave (Proverbs 28:13 KJV). The latter is known as "iniquity" aka "presumptuous sin" and is deliberate, known sin from which the sinner refuses to cease, believing that it will be covered by grace. That is what I've been referring to here. Please hover over the verses and compare the two. That is what John refers to in 1 John 2:3-4 KJV when he says, "Hereby we do know that we know Him if we keep His commandments. He that saith, I know Him, and keepeth not His commandments is a liar and the truth is not in him." John's talking about presumptuous sin.

 

[Phoneman777]

What is the difference between repenting daily and having an attitude of knowing you are a sinner in the flesh and need the shed blood of Jesus to pay for your sins. I have already posted the following:

True Repentance:

I believe that repentance is necessary for the child of God. But that repentance is not a ritual that is done when they think they have sinned. I believe in a repentant attitude, an attitude of continually acknowledging, to God, that the sins of the flesh are always present in the mind.

Having said the above I must state that, to some, repentance seems to means that they perform a ritual of repentance. I do not believe that knowing you have committed a sin and then pulling down your get out of sin repentance card is true repentance. It ignores the fact that they sin in their minds all the time.

In this article I have said what I believe true repentance to be. Some seen to have a different opinion and they are welcome to it. But that does not mean I have to share their opinion OR that they have to share mine.

IMHO (In my honest opinion), to the religious mind, repenting of sins is something that a person does, at some time or other, to ask for forgiveness for a sin they think they have committed. I say it this way because, for them, they must pick a time and go to God in a prayer of words and ask for forgiveness for that sin. They do it only when they think they have done something wrong. For the rest of their time they rationalize that they do not sin and therefore do not have to repent. When they do this it shows they do not trust in the blood of Jesus that has already paid for those sins.

True repentance "IS" a "CONSTANT ATTITUDE" of the heart and is not an action that is done at some place or time. --- It is constantly acknowledging (admitting to God) that you are a sinful person in the flesh and that you need His forgiveness, the need for God, who paid for your sins, to save you from your sinful nature in the flesh. -- It is a constant humble walk with God (the Holy Spirit that lives in your heart) in honesty, without deceit. -- To be exact it is and attitude of the heart and it is not a ritual that you do at some place or time.

1. A repenting; penitent state; feeling of sorrow, etc. especially for wrongdoing; compunction, contrition; remorse. A child of God feels remorseful that he/she sins but since they live in a body of sinful flesh there is no way they can stop from sinning in the flesh. Paul couldn’t in Romans 7 and neither can we.

Ps 32:1-2
1 Blessed is he whose transgression is forgiven, whose sin is covered.
2 Blessed is the man to whom the LORD does not impute iniquity, and in whose spirit there is no deceit.
(NKJ)

Deceit = dishonesty / a person saying they have no sin is being dishonest (deceitful) with God. Therefore having a constant honest attitude of acknowledging your sinful nature to God and placing your faith, trust, confidence, and hope in God's work on the cross to save you from your sinful nature is true repentance. A person that does not acknowledge his/her sins (sinful nature) is being dishonest with God and will feel no need to have an constant attitude of repentance. IMHO they are like the Pharisee below.

Luke 18:11-14
11 "The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, 'God, I thank You that I am not like other men-- extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this tax collector.
12 'I fast twice a week; I give tithes of all that I possess.'
13 "And the tax collector, standing afar off, would not so much as raise his eyes to heaven, but beat his breast, saying, 'God, be merciful to me a sinner!'
14 "I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other; for everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted."
(NKJ)

The tax collector was repenting, he was sorrowful, contrite, remorseful, because of his sinfulness. But that does not mean he stopped being a sinful person or a tax collector.

It seems that this is not enough for some to comprehend.

Some wish to be religious policemen on the forums. They think that they know the truth in the scriptures, feel that others do not, and that the forum must be protected from those that do not believe as they do. When they enter into a discussion it is not to "share" what they believe but to "impose" what they believe on others or to destroy what another believes. This is a very serious attitude problem.

The truth is "you're not really sorry until you're ready to quit." The type of repentance you speak of is not repentance at all, but a perpetual state of attempting to cover one's self with God's grace regardless of whether or not we confess and forsake our sin. However, God has clearly told us that "He that covereth his sin shall not prosper (shall not have mercy), but whosoever confesseth and forsaketh his sin shall have mercy." (Proverbs 28:13 KJV) I realize that our carnal feathers get ruffled when we hear things we don't like and it makes us angry, but the absolute best time to walk in the light is the moment the Holy Spirit shines it into our lives, friend.

 

[StanJ]

The truth is "you're not really sorry until you're ready to quit." The type of repentance you speak of is not repentance at all, but a perpetual state of attempting to cover one's self with God's grace regardless of whether or not we confess and forsake our sin. However, God has clearly told us that "He that covereth his sin shall not prosper (shall not have mercy), but whosoever confesseth and forsaketh his sin shall have mercy." (Proverbs 28:13 KJV) I realize that our carnal feathers get ruffled when we hear things we don't like and it makes us angry, but the absolute best time to walk in the light is the moment the Holy Spirit shines it into our lives, friend.

1 John 2:1-2
My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous One, and he himself is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for our sins but also for the whole world.

 

[H. Richard]

The truth is "you're not really sorry until you're ready to quit." The type of repentance you speak of is not repentance at all, but a perpetual state of attempting to cover one's self with God's grace regardless of whether or not we confess and forsake our sin. However, God has clearly told us that "He that covereth his sin shall not prosper (shall not have mercy), but whosoever confesseth and forsaketh his sin shall have mercy." (Proverbs 28:13 KJV) I realize that our carnal feathers get ruffled when we hear things we don't like and it makes us angry, but the absolute best time to walk in the light is the moment the Holy Spirit shines it into our lives, friend.

The scripture say that we can not quit sinning as long as we live in bodies with a sinful nature.

Rom 7:22-25
22 For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man.
23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
24 O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death?
25 I thank God — through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin.
NKJV

Jesus delivered us from the Law of sin and death when He paid for our sins on the cross.