Two White Horses

[Red_Letters88]

(kriss;58475)
OK, tell me if you see some regular guy performing miracles and claiming to be christ are you going to worship him or just think he is doing some magic tricks and lost his mind? Im telling you he will fake christ second coming the whole world wonders after the beast he will be seen coming from the sky just like we would think christ will returnLook at what Luke says Luk 10:18 And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven. Now compare with Christs true comingLuk 17:24 For as the lightning, that lighteneth out of the one [part] under heaven, shineth unto the other [part] under heaven; so shall also the Son of man be in his day. This is noregular human man it is Satan appearing as a man as many angels dobut the man he will be pretending to be is Jesus christ
Now wait a minute Kriss, you assume that the kicking out of satan from heaven is ALSO the way the antichrist will make an entry. Thats all assumption

 

[Christina]

did you read rev 12 how is that assumption ? Its what God tells you and Luke is a second wittness

 

[Christina]

9And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. 10And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night. 12Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time. 13And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child. Which part of this is assumption? Its literly what God says. This is the End of the fifth trump. It Issues in the 6th trump when Satan gets here this starts the tribulation It will tell us later thereas silence in heaven for 1/2 hour why was it silent because the accuser that accuses us day and night is gone he is here on earth with his fallen angels. He let out of the pit as he wasgiven the key to the abyss. This dragon is the devil Satan.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>...........Its also what Irenaes and Hippolytus taught in their writtings they learned from Polycarp the Bishop of the the church of Smyrna, one of only two churches God was pleased with. And he learned it from John I think that gives them credability. its about as close as you can get outside scripture to a true wittness before all the coruption. This Satan is the Antichrist was taught until St. Augustine changed the church teachings. So hey if God says it the early church taught it. Its good enough for me.

 

[Red_Letters88]

Kriss, just to let you know Im not accusing anyone of anything here. Just trying to understand why certain verses say the things they do. Rev 16 and 20 seem to be stumbling blocks on both sides- seeing as how you all have to add to it- and I take it as it is. Im not claiming ive got it figured out however.

 

[Red_Letters88]

Read this Kriss: (not mine)
The expression "antichristos" is found only in theepistles of John (I John 2:18, 22; 4:3; II John 7).Nevertheless, the idea behind it is widespread. Morrismakes the important point that one should understand "theforce of anti as indicating opposition, rather than afalse claim" (Morris, 1980a, p. 69, also Horton, 1994, p.628) - that is, the Antichrist is one who opposes Christrather that one who claims to be the Christ. Given this,passages bearing on the Antichrist also include such asDaniel 7:7f, 21f, and those in II Thessalonians 2 andRevelation which deal with the strong opposition that theforces of evil are to offer Christ in the last days.
This makes a lot of sense to me....MoreBy the way- What do you think II Thessalonians 2:9 means- if they are the same?

 

[Christina]

Its also what Irenaes and Hippolytus taught in their writtings they learned from Polycarp the Bishop of the the church of Smyrna, one of only two churches God was pleased with. And he learned it from John I think that gives them credability. its about as close as you can get outside scripture to a true wittness before all the coruption. This Satan is the Antichrist was taught until St. Augustine changed the church teachings. So hey if God says it the early church taught it. Its good enough for me.And I have told you before Antichrist is a word we use to some up the coming wicked one God says Satan the dragon the old serent the devil.is coming to earth Woe to us.

 

[Red_Letters88]

(kriss;58490)
Its also what Irenaes and Hippolytus taught in their writtings they learned from Polycarp the Bishop of the the church of Smyrna, one of only two churches God was pleased with. And he learned it from John I think that gives them credability. its about as close as you can get outside scripture to a true wittness before all the coruption. This Satan is the Antichrist was taught until St. Augustine changed the church teachings. So hey if God says it the early church taught it. Its good enough for me.And I have told you before Antichrist is a word we use to some up the coming wicked one God says Satan the dragon the old serent the devil.is coming to earth Woe to us.
So now the early church and the church fathers were infallible? Btw, check out that link.

 

[tomwebster]

(Red_Letters88;58489)
Read this Kriss: (not mine)This makes a lot of sense to me....MoreBy the way- What do you think II Thessalonians 2:9 means- if they are the same?
Needless to say, I do not agree with David M. Williams.And, it would be good if more people understood Greek.

 

[Red_Letters88]

(tomwebster;58495)
Needless to say, I do not agree with David M. Williams.And, it would be good if more people understood Greek.
I already place more trust into this guys study then all the random grabs for understanding I see here. Please Tom, what (in scripture) do you not agree with this guy on?

 

[Christina]

No that isnt what i said I said if God says it and they confirm it. 9And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. 10And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night. 12Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time. what do you think he is saying in these verse's this is the End of the 5th trump it has not occured yet I simply believe God says exactly what he means you seem to be the one saying perhaps he doesnt mean what he says

 

[Red_Letters88]

You all have yet to explain why the different names in Rev 16 and 20 are just "offices" Sure, you have given verses showing satan is the dragon, yet none for the others. Other than assumption (to make it fit your understanding) please show any other time or even this time how "offices" of satan are damned individually.Also I would be interested in learning your idea of what this means:2 Thessalonians 2:9The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with the work of Satan displayed in all kinds of counterfeit miracles, signs and wonders,

 

[Christina]

(Red_Letters88;58496)
I already place more trust into this guys study then all the random grabs for understanding I see here. Please Tom, what (in scripture) do you not agree with this guy on?
Thats great you say I should not listen to those who meant those who learned from John himself and ran a chuch God was pleased with but you believe a guy 2000 years later why is that are you being influenced by what you have always heard from men or scriptures Again God say Woe to earth for the devil comes down to you.

 

[tomwebster]

(Red_Letters88;58496)
I already place more trust into this guys study then all the random grabs for understanding I see here. Please Tom, what (in scripture) do you not agree with this guy on?
I dissagree with everything I have read. Course, I have not read everything he has written. He is a rapture believer. That's enough for me.

 

[Christina]

(Red_Letters88;58498)
You all have yet to explain why the different names in Rev 16 and 20 are just "offices" Sure, you have given verses showing satan is the dragon, yet none for the others. Other than assumption (to make it fit your understanding) please show any other time or even this time how "offices" of satan are damned individually.
We have tried but How can we explain when you have very little understanding of the tribulation events and the Amobination of Desolation its a whole story from begining to end you are arguing when you as yet have not fully understood the whole story and how its pickes up from Daniel when the book was sealed till the time of the End.

 

[Red_Letters88]

(kriss;58501)
We have tried but How can we explain when you have very little understanding of the tribulation events and the Amobination of Desolation its a whole story from begining to end you are arguing when you as yet have not fully understood the whole story and how its pickes up from Daniel when the book was sealed till the time of the End.
Please, once more then. Im also still waiting to learn how 2 Thessalonians 2:9 fits this doctrine.The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with the work of Satan displayed in all kinds of counterfeit miracles, signs and wonders,By the way, Ive realized 2 Thess 2:9 in KJV has left this verse as "even him"The NIV makes it clear- its the coming of the lawless one.

 

[Christina]

2 Thessalonians 2:8 "And then shall that Wicked be revealed, Whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit [breath] of his mouth, and shall destroy [bring to naught] with the brightness [manifestation] of his coming:"2 Thessalonians 2:9 "Even him, whose coming is after the working of Sa'-tan with all power and signs and lying wonders,""Even him" also includes Satan's religious beast system. Satan's religious system will be present with Satan. The religious beast is discussed in Revelation 13, and this the religious role that gives support and authority to Satan.Satan is the beast who sets up the beast religious system,that is the one world religious sysytem with himself as leader and the whole world follows after the beastThere is a beast system a one world religion and it is run by the beast (Satan)Now I will say some believe this beast system is what is thrown into the fire but how do you torment a system ? That why I believe that its represenitive of the role as Satan as the beast system leaderExample: Perhaps if I said this is Bushes America he is coming to run it in accordance with Bushes Laws you could put this in better context

 

[Christina]

This why I give Irenaeus credit as a second wittness more than other church writters and because I believe the Word to be in line with his writtings>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Polycarp Bishop of Smyrna Polycarp was Bishop of Smyrna (today known as Izmir), a city on the west coast of Turkey. The letters to the "seven churches in Asia" at the beginning of the book of Revelation include a letter to the church in Smyrna, identifying it as a church undergoing persecution. Polycarp is said to have known the Apostle John, and to have been instructed by him in the Christian faith. Polycarp, in his turn, was known to Irenaeus, who later became Bishop of Lyons in what is now France. We have (1) Irenaeus's brief memoir of Polycarp; (2) a letter to Polycarp from Ignatius of Antioch, written around 115 AD when Ignatius was passing through Turkey, being sent in chains to Rome to be put to death; (3) a letter from Polycarp to the church at Philippi, written at the same time; and (4) an account of the arrest, trial, conviction, and martyrdom of Polycarp, written after his death by one or more members of his congregation. Polycarp was denounced to the government, arrested, and tried on the charge of being a Christian. When the proconsul urged him to save his life by cursing Christ, he replied: "Eighty-six years I have served him, and he never did me any wrong. How can I blaspheme my King who saved me?" The magistrate was reluctant to kill a a gentle old man, but he had no choice. Polycarp was sentenced to be burned. As he waited for the fire to be lighted, he prayed: Lord God Almighty, Father of your blessed and belovedchild Jesus Christ, through whom we have received knowledge ofyou, God of angels and hosts and all creation, and of the wholerace of the upright who live in your presence: I bless youthat you have thought me worthy of this day and hour, to benumbered among the martyrs and share in the cup of Christ, forresurrection to eternal life, for soul and body in theincorruptibility of the Holy Spirit. Among them may I beaccepted before you today, as a rich and acceptable sacrifice,just as you, the faithful and true God, have prepared andforeshown and brought about. For this reason and for all thingsI praise you, I bless you, I glorify you, through the eternalheavenly high priest Jesus Christ, your beloved child, throughwhom be glory to you, with him and the Holy Spirit, now and forthe ages to come. Amen.The fire was then lit and shortly thereafter a soldier stabbed Polycarp to death by order of the magistrate. His friends gave his remains honorable burial, and wrote an account of his death to other churches. See the Penguin volume, Ancient Christian Writers.

 

[1 of 3 Martyrs]

(tomwebster;58500)
I dissagree with everything I have read. Course, I have not read everything he has written. He is a rapture believer. That's enough for me.
Actually no I'm not. I have reached no conclusions as to what or when the events of 1 Thes 4 will be. I may have referred to these events as the "rapture event" in the past, but like I said, I dont fully understand what or when this will happen. Yet.I do not believe in a pretrib rapture at all.

 

[Red_Letters88]

(1 of 3 Martyrs;58518)
Actually no I'm not. I have reached no conclusions as to what or when the events of 1 Thes 4 will be.I do not believe in a pretrib rapture at all.
Um...He was responding to me 1 of 3...about a link I posted

 

[1 of 3 Martyrs]

(kriss;58504)
This why I give Irenaeus credit as a second wittness more than other church writters and because I believe the Word to be in line with his writtings>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Polycarp Bishop of Smyrna Polycarp was Bishop of Smyrna (today known as Izmir), a city on the west coast of Turkey. The letters to the "seven churches in Asia" at the beginning of the book of Revelation include a letter to the church in Smyrna, identifying it as a church undergoing persecution. Polycarp is said to have known the Apostle John, and to have been instructed by him in the Christian faith. Polycarp, in his turn, was known to Irenaeus, who later became Bishop of Lyons in what is now France. We have (1) Irenaeus's brief memoir of Polycarp; (2) a letter to Polycarp from Ignatius of Antioch, written around 115 AD when Ignatius was passing through Turkey, being sent in chains to Rome to be put to death; (3) a letter from Polycarp to the church at Philippi, written at the same time; and (4) an account of the arrest, trial, conviction, and martyrdom of Polycarp, written after his death by one or more members of his congregation. Polycarp was denounced to the government, arrested, and tried on the charge of being a Christian. When the proconsul urged him to save his life by cursing Christ, he replied: "Eighty-six years I have served him, and he never did me any wrong. How can I blaspheme my King who saved me?" The magistrate was reluctant to kill a a gentle old man, but he had no choice. Polycarp was sentenced to be burned. As he waited for the fire to be lighted, he prayed: Lord God Almighty, Father of your blessed and belovedchild Jesus Christ, through whom we have received knowledge ofyou, God of angels and hosts and all creation, and of the wholerace of the upright who live in your presence: I bless youthat you have thought me worthy of this day and hour, to benumbered among the martyrs and share in the cup of Christ, forresurrection to eternal life, for soul and body in theincorruptibility of the Holy Spirit. Among them may I beaccepted before you today, as a rich and acceptable sacrifice,just as you, the faithful and true God, have prepared andforeshown and brought about. For this reason and for all thingsI praise you, I bless you, I glorify you, through the eternalheavenly high priest Jesus Christ, your beloved child, throughwhom be glory to you, with him and the Holy Spirit, now and forthe ages to come. Amen.The fire was then lit and shortly thereafter a soldier stabbed Polycarp to death by order of the magistrate. His friends gave his remains honorable burial, and wrote an account of his death to other churches. See the Penguin volume, Ancient Christian Writers.
And where are Polycarp's writings about Satan being the man of sin?