Typical questions people ask about the Olivet Discourse.

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Douggg

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If you actually have such a post, copy/paste it here, or link to it.

And describe how a "compound, complex, sentence" invalidates referents.
26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.


In Daniel 9:26 two persons. The Messiah cut off but not for himself. colon (grammar rule, compound sentence). Then the second person, the prince that come, being of the people who destroy the temple and sanctuary. semicolon (grammar rule, complex sentence) ; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

Daniel 9:26 is a compound, complex, sentence.

The referents are different in the compound sentence separated by a colon.
 

Ziggy

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The Jews set up the abomination that maketh desolate by forsaking the Lord and his Temple.
The Holy place spoken of by Daniel is the presence of God Daniel was standing in when he prayed to God.

This is your hour and power of darkness. Who was Jesus speaking to?

The war is spiritual warfare between good and evil. And many shall fall for lack of faith.

Listen to the still small voice instead of the loud brass trumpets and you will hear what the spirit saith.

listen with your heart and not your head.
hugs
 

covenantee

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26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.


In Daniel 9:26 two persons. The Messiah cut off but not for himself. colon (grammar rule, compound sentence). Then the second person, the prince that come, being of the people who destroy the temple and sanctuary. semicolon (grammar rule, complex sentence) ; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

Daniel 9:26 is a compound, complex, sentence.

The referents are different in the compound sentence separated by a colon.

The referent of "Messiah" in Daniel 9:26 is "Messiah the Prince" in Daniel 9:25. The connector is "Messiah".

The referent of "prince" in Daniel 9:26 is "Messiah the Prince" in Daniel 9:25. The connector is "Prince".

There can't be different referents, because the referent of Daniel 9:26 is found in Daniel 9:25, and there is only one.

There is only one person and one referent:

"Messiah the Prince".
 
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Ziggy

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Who is this?

Jhn 14:30
Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me.

hugs
 

ewq1938

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Who is this?

Jhn 14:30
Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me.

hugs


Joh 14:30 Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me.



Prince here doesn't mean second in command or something like we think in modern English, it means the ruler, the first in rank or power:

G758
a?´????
archo¯n
ar'-khone
Present participle of G757; a first (in rank or power): - chief (ruler), magistrate, prince, ruler.


G758
a?´????
archo¯n
Thayer Definition:
1) a ruler, commander, chief, leader
Part of Speech: noun masculine
A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: present participle of G757
Citing in TDNT: 1:488, 81

According to Christ, the ruler of this world was to come after Christ left. We know from Rev 12 that after He ascended there was a war in heaven and satan was cast to the Earth just as Christ said would happen. According to Jesus Christ himself, the one reigning/ruling the world after His ascension would be satan.

Dan 4:17 This matter is by the decree of the watchers, and the demand by the word of the holy ones: to the intent that the living may know that the most High ruleth in the kingdom of men, and giveth it to whomsoever he will, and setteth up over it the basest of men.


According to this, the ruler of the known world at that time was Nebuchadnezzar by God's command. Who ultimately rules over creation? God. Does God allow others to rule this world? Yes. Satan is allowed by God to rule this world and is ruling now and will rule until the 7th trump.

So the idea satan is less powerful and is restricted since the cross is false. Satan has been allowed to have more power and influence than ever and he continues to deceive the nations despite claims that he can no longer do that.

It reminds me of the story of Job. At first satan is allowed some power to try to cause Job to falter. When that fails God gives him more power. That is what happened after the cross. God has given satan the authority to be the ruler of this world and allows him to kill Christians and hold back the gospel from the nations because he is actively deceiving them. This will get worse, culminating in satan's global tribulation which will be the worst period the Church/saints/body of Christ has ever faced and there shall be "a falling away" because of how terrible that period shall be BUT the good news is Christ shall return and the body of Christ shall be forever protected. Only then will satan be bound and imprisoned and instead of this false "limited and restricted influence" claim. He shall be fully powerless until God let's him have one short season to deceive once more then he will be destroyed and all like him.
 

Douggg

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The referent of "Messiah" in Daniel 9:26 is "Messiah the Prince" in Daniel 9:25. The connector is "Messiah".

The referent of "prince" in Daniel 9:26 is "Messiah the Prince" in Daniel 9:25. The connector is "Prince".

There can't be different referents, because the referent of Daniel 9:26 is found in Daniel 9:25, and there is only one.

There is only one person and one referent:

"Messiah the Prince".
In the kjv, Messiah the Prince is in verse 25.

The prince that shall come in verse 26 is not called Messiah the Prince in the text. Messiah the Prince and the prince that shall come are two different people.

The prince that shall come is called a prince because he will become the Antichrist - a person the Jews will mistakenly think is their messiah initially - but will reveal himself to be the man of sin and not the messiah after all.

The little horn becomes the prince that shall come, who then becomes the Antichrist, who then becomes the revealed man of sin, who then becomes the beast-king.
 
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covenantee

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In the kjv, Messiah the Prince is verse 25.

The prince that shall come in verse 26 is not called Messiah the Prince in the text. Messiah the Prince and the prince that shall come are two different people.

The prince that shall come is called a prince because he will become the Antichrist - a person the Jews will mistakenly think is their messiah initially - but will reveal himself to be the man of sin and not the messiah after all.

The little horn becomes the prince that shall come, who then becomes the Antichrist, who then becomes the revealed man of sin, who then becomes the beast-king.
The connecting words "Messiah the Prince" in Daniel 9:25 qualify the term as the legitimate grammatical referent of Daniel 9:26. There is only one Person identified as a Prince throughout Daniel 9:24-27, and He is Messiah the Prince, the prince who did come.

The claim that Messiah the Prince will become the Antichrist is absolute blasphemy, unheard of in more than 17 centuries of historic orthodox Christianity. It is contamination, defilement, and blasphemy found only in modernist Darby/Scofield/Jesuit apostasy.

The word "antichrist" occurs only in John's NT epistles. The word does not exist in OT Hebrew or Aramaic.
 
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Ziggy

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According to this, the ruler of the known world at that time was Nebuchadnezzar by God's command.
Thank you
So would Caesar be considered the ruler in Jesus' time?

Jhn 19:15
But they cried out, Away with him, away with him, crucify him. Pilate saith unto them, Shall I crucify your King? The chief priests answered, We have no king but Caesar.

Hugs
 

CadyandZoe

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There is a slight problem with this week in your interpretation. When is your week supposed to be resolved?
Contrary to most Christians, I believe Daniel's 70 weeks are not interrupted. Stephan's stoning marks the end of the 70 Weeks. Acts 7:54-60
Why do you have the NT church within the entire scope of desolation? That is a conflict of interest.
I don't understand the question. The desolation -- the thing to be emptied -- is the house of David and the lands of the Jewish people. That took place in the first century.

Besides, Jesus did not come to destroy nor abominate the Law. Jesus came to fulfill or make the Law complete.
Agreed.
Jesus is both the Messiah and the Prince to come, however the Prince to come part is the Second Coming. Daniel 9:27 cannot even take place until after the Second Coming.
I don't see a "coming" in Daniel 9
 

CadyandZoe

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You speak of a LONG GT when Christ said it would be shortened so less long as originally intended. The GT coincides with a leader of the entire planet, performing miracles etc. That hasn't happened yet.
Jesus is focused on the Jewish people, whom God will judge by allowing the nations to take them captive, kill some of them, and persecute the rest for many years. He describes it this way.

Matthew 24:21-22 For then there will be a great tribulation, such as has not occurred since the beginning of the world until now, nor ever will. Unless those days had been cut short, no life would have been saved; but for the sake of the elect those days will be cut short.

There are two intents implied here: 1) Satan's wish to kill all the Jews, and 2) God's wish to preserve some for himself. Satan wishes to persecute and kill the Jews until there are no more Jews left. At some point in history, God will completely stop Satan's progress before all the Jews are eliminated. For the sake of the elect, God will eventually put a stop to all the persecution and death of the Jews.

According to the book of Revelation, this takes place when God marks 144,000 Jews for their protection.
 

Douggg

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The connecting words "Messiah the Prince" in Daniel 9:25 qualify the term as the legitimate grammatical referent of Daniel 9:26. There is only one Person identified as a Prince throughout Daniel 9:24-27, and He is Messiah the Prince, the prince who did come.

The claim that Messiah the Prince will become the Antichrist is absolute blasphemy, unheard of in more than 17 centuries of historic orthodox Christianity. It is contamination, defilement, and blasphemy found only in modernist Darby/Scofield/Jesuit apostasy.

The word "antichrist" occurs only in John's NT epistles. The word does not exist in OT Hebrew or Aramaic.
You are grammatically wrong. You are content wrong. You are historically wrong. You are wrong about who confirms the covenant for 7 years.

Ezekiel 39 provide infallible proof regarding the 70th week is unfulfilled - until after the Gog/Magog event.

Ezekiel 39, the Gog/Magog event. Followed by 7 years in verses 9-10. Followed by the Armageddon event in verses 17-20. Followed by Jesus return to this earth, His Second Coming, Jesus Himself speaking in the text verse 21-29.

From the Judaism 101 site by Jews of what they believe....

The term "mashiach" literally means "the anointed one," and refers to the ancient practice of anointing kings with oil when they took the throne. The mashiach is the one who will be anointed as king in the End of Days.

The Antichrist will be anointed the King of Israel, thought-to-be messiah that the Jews are looking for. It will happen right after the Gog/Magog event.
 

Ziggy

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Matthew 24:21-22 For then there will be a great tribulation, such as has not occurred since the beginning of the world until now, nor ever will. Unless those days had been cut short, no life would have been saved; but for the sake of the elect those days will be cut short.
I hear that here:

Luk 12:51
Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division:
Luk 12:52
For from henceforth there shall be five in one house divided, three against two, and two against three.
Luk 12:53
The father shall be divided against the son, and the son against the father; the mother against the daughter, and the daughter against the mother; the mother in law against her daughter in law, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.

Luk 12:49
I am come to send fire on the earth; and what will I, if it be already kindled?
Luk 12:50
But I have a baptism to be baptized with; and how am I straitened till it be accomplished!

During the span of Jesus' lifetime, Every year there was held the Passover.
Why this one? Why was this Passover the one that Jesus was to be sacrificed?
If he had waited one more year or ten more years, would fire had come out of his belly instead of living waters?

Would they have recieved God's wrath instead of his mercy?

I'm just pondering..
Hugs
 

TribulationSigns

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Tim, Jesus in Daniel 9:26 was cutoff. Historically, around 33 AD.

Agreed with Christ's death in 33AD.
The people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and sanctuary - as it say in the remainder of Daniel 9:26.

Incorrect. You got the people of the prince wrong because you tried to insert an "evil" prince in the context where God DID NOT say. Have you taken a writing class? The prince in context is talking about no one but Messiah the Prince. Not a third party where you insert and make a claim that it is about Titus, or antichrist as preterists and premillennialists often do.

Daniel 9:24-27 is about God's redemptive plan with His people, Israel. Not only with Jews in national Israel, but also all Gentiles in Christ. Aren't we, a spiritual Jew, also Daniel's people in Christ? We shall sit along with Abraham, Isaac, David, Daniel, Peter, James, John, etc. because we are all one spiritual family - Daniel's people!

Daniel 9:26 talks about OLD TESTAMENT CONGREGATION the moment Christ went to the Cross, and it is the Jews, His OWN PEOPLE, the Jews at that time, who came against Him and as a result, upon the death of Christ, their city and the sanctuary fell (destroyed) meaning they no longer represent the Kingdom God for their rejection of the Messiah. However, in three days, thanks to the blood of the Lamb upon the Cross, Christ rebuilt the temple by confirmed a covenant with New Testament congregation (Must read Hebrews 9:14-17) - the very temple that he rebuilt in 3 days. You can't see this truth because you do NOT have spiritual discernment but stuck with carnal mind, seeing things that you hope for physical fulfillment with a man, a temple, a city, a Jewish saracfiice. You are blind by your own doctrine.
Historically, that destruction took part in 70 AD. - 40 years after Jesus left this world.

You got the wrong temple. It was not a literal temple that needed to be destroyed with physical stones falling. It is HIS CONGREGATION with people as stones because they were the builders of the temple, just like we are today in a temple that Christ rebuilt in three days after his death.
So Jesus cannot be the prince that come.

Read carefully:
Dan 9:24-27
(24) Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
(25) Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.
(26) And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
(27) And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Note that God is talking about Messiah the Prince in the context. It is all about relationship between God and His people - Daniel's people. There is no third party or evil prince in there. Like many people, you added it yourself to fit your faulty doctrine!

The prince who shall come will be the little horn person, who as the Antichrist will confirm the Mt. Sinai covenant for the 7 year cycle required by Moses in Deuteronomy 31:9-13.

False. You refuse to receive the love the truth on HOW covenant was confirmed and that it was Messiah the Prince who confirmed it. YOu need to surrender to God's Word on how covenant (testimony) was confirmed:

Heb 9:14-17
(14) How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
(15) And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.
(16) For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
(17) For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.

A covenant in Daniel 9:27 cannot become a force or made strength unless the testator (Christ) has to die FIRST! This is how a covenant was confirmed or made strong FOR HIS PEOPLE (many) to be saved! Hello?! This has NOTHING to do with your pipe dream of a man signing a so-called 7 years peace treaty with Israel. You need to learn to compare Scirpture with Scirpture on HOW the covenant was confirmed ACCORDING TO GOD, not your premillennial fantasy.
 
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covenantee

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You are grammatically wrong. You are content wrong. You are historically wrong. You are wrong about who confirms the covenant for 7 years.

Ezekiel 39 provide infallible proof regarding the 70th week is unfulfilled - until after the Gog/Magog event.

Ezekiel 39, the Gog/Magog event. Followed by 7 years in verses 9-10. Followed by the Armageddon event in verses 17-20. Followed by Jesus return to this earth, His Second Coming, Jesus Himself speaking in the text verse 21-29.

From the Judaism 101 site by Jews of what they believe....

The term "mashiach" literally means "the anointed one," and refers to the ancient practice of anointing kings with oil when they took the throne. The mashiach is the one who will be anointed as king in the End of Days.

The Antichrist will be anointed the King of Israel, thought-to-be messiah that the Jews are looking for. It will happen right after the Gog/Magog event.
Complete utter modernist Darby/Scofield/Jesuit apostate blasphemous futurized fantasy, fallacy, delusion and deception.

The grammar of Scripture stands.

The content of Scripture stands.

There is not one example of the advocacy of blasphemy in 17 centuries of historical orthodox Christianity.

The True Church recognizes Messiah the Prince as the Testator of the New Covenant in His Blood at Calvary. Hebrews 9:14-17


Those who continue to perpetuate the blasphemy that Messiah the Prince is the Antichrist will face a sobering accounting at the Judgment.
 
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TribulationSigns

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false prophets are not kings. The ten horns (kings, leaders) have their crowns in Revelation 13;1, because they will rule with the beast-king that last 42 months before Jesus returns, His Second Coming.

You don't get it. Obviously, because you lack spiritual discernment. Do you honestly think God is talking about ten physical kings on Earth?

No...God is is talking about PEOPLE of the congregation. Some are Elect. Some of False prophets and Christs. They worked together to build Church UNTIL God see that the last Elect has been secured, THEN after 2,000 years of Church rule under Elect, the False Prophets receive power as kings along with the beast. Listen....

They had no kingdom/rule because the time for the beast hadn't come for them to come into existence. This is an "image" depicting Satan's rule past, present and future.

Revelation 17:9
  • "And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth."

God has warned that the interpretation based on the Mind of Christ, the only wise mind. In other words, interpretations allowing God's Word to interpret God's Word, not allowing Jersualem Post to interpret God's Word. That is wisdom that you seems to lack here. In Scripture Mountains represent Kingdoms/Rules, and in this context, of this beast. Satan had ALREADY ruled for 5, then there was 1 where he was presently ruling (at the time of John's writing. For example, he is not, and yet is, because he was bound for the Church's sake until the building of the church is finished. Then we read one was yet to come, which makes a total of 7 in all, signifying the completeness of time that Beast will rule. It is clear that the 10 kings didn't exist at the time of the writing, they arise in the later days just before the end of time. That is what it means to say that the 10 kings of the Beast have no kingdom yet. That means the power of this beast to give them rule hadn't occurred until after God's building of the church is finished. Moreover, these kings are't ten literal men, but representing men ruling through the power of Satan for the fullness of Satan's final rule. No man lives 2000 years, but this spirit within them does. This spirit of Satan to rule in man in the fullness of this power cannot occur until a short period (a short season) just before the Lord's second coming.

Revelation 17:10

  • "And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space."
The 10 kings arise as part of the final rule of Satan depicted in the image. They rule one hour (symbolically a short season) with this final manifestation of this Beast's power. As also seen in Revelation 20 of Satan being loosed a short period. Then Satan will be allowed to move these kings be seated and rule one hour by giving the CHURCH to the Beast for the purpose of God's judgment for her unfaithfulness! Hello?" When Satan is loosed (by God), he musters this army of false prophets and christs (signifies frogs, locusts, scripons, horsemen, etc.) and GIVE THEM THIS POWER of ANTICHRIST that can overcome and silence (kill) the testimony of Two Witnesses as a judgment to those who do not love the truth so they may be saved. For God has always brought judgment on His people first before the world!

Jeremiah 25:29
  • "For, lo, I begin to bring evil on the city which is called by my name, and should ye be utterly unpunished? Ye shall not be unpunished: for I will call for a sword upon all the inhabitants of the earth, saith the LORD of hosts."
Christians who think the Church can never be judged are not reading scriptures wisely. Or not "seeing" what they are reading. They won't "see" the abomination of desolation where it should not say which is the CHURCH, not temple mount in JErsualem. Remember Christ build His church all over the world so where will the abomination of desolation stand to replace Christ? Humm????

As for the imagery symbols, the number 10 in scripture signifies the fullness of whatever is in view, the horns in scripture signify power, and that these horns are kings signify they rule. And so the 10 Horns/kings will be given full Power/to Rule in the Church to fulfill God's will against rebellion. But their power or influence and authority is FROM the beast, not the Cherubim! These false prophets and christs rule in the Churches by the spirit of Antichrist, not Christ. For example, Joel Osteen, Joyce Meyers, Joseph Prince, etc. who came with false doctrines into the church. But ultimately we read that it is God who has sent them as judgment upon rebellious people (professed Christians) in the church who have refused to hear Two Witnesses testimony or corrections. As He has done to His Old Testament congregation many times before.

Ezekiel 9:6
  • "Slay utterly old and young, both maids, and little children, and women: but come not near any man upon whom is the mark; and begin at my sanctuary. Then they began at the ancient men which were before the house."
So it will be when the Church is judged. Those with the mark of God's name spiritually written in their foreheads will be spared, but all Israel without it shall be as Babylon and made desolate.

If you think there will be physically fulfillment in the Middle East, you will sorely miss what is going on in the church all over the world where false prophets and christs rules! Your doctrines about antichrist, 7 years treaty, national Israel, third temple, Russia as Gog and Magog, etc. etc. is totally false and not supported by the Bible! Period. Repent and pray for spiritual wisdoms.
 

TribulationSigns

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Your (mis)understanding of grammar rules is the beginning of your problems.


Saying that does not make it true. Jesus is the Messiah. But Jesus is not the prince that shall come.

Yes!
There is no reason to refer to both the Messiah and the prince that shall come in the same verse if they are the same person.

Yes! You fail to realize that the whole context of Daniel 9:24-27 is about God's redemptive plan for His People Israel. Nothing is said about a different prince in the picture. Silly!
In Daniel 9:26 two persons.

False! That is the hallmark of Premillennialism error - big time!
The Messiah cut off but not for himself. colon (grammar rule, compound sentence). Then the second person, the prince that come, being of the people who destroy the temple and sanctuary. semicolon (grammar rule, complex sentence) ; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

Daniel 9:26 is a compound, complex, sentence.

Go back to school. It is taught that colons are punctuation marks used to signal when what comes next is directly related to the previous sentence. It is to connect two related sentences and emphasizing the word or a phrase. You do not make sense of your own faulty interpreation on colon. If Christ was cut off in 33AD in one sentence but in the next connecting sentence, you insisted it is about Titus and Romans coming to destroy a physical temple? It is not related at all. You already forgot that Christ has already rebuilt the temple in three days, and empowered people with the HOly Spirit at Pentecost to bring Gospel to the world and many of them are already gone into nations long before 70AD else Paul did not have to chase Christians in Damascus. LOL.
Get real.

No, you get real!
The Romans crucified Jesus and the two others on crosses at the same time. Jesus's people were the Jews.

Sigh!!! Can't you read the Scripture instead of making up speculations? Look what the Jews said to Jesus:

Joh 2:18-22
(18) Then answered the Jews and said unto him, What sign shewest thou unto us, seeing that thou doest these things?
(19) Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.
(20) Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?
(21) But he spake of the temple of his body.
(22) When therefore he was risen from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this unto them; and they believed the scripture, and the word which Jesus had said.

Jesus did not say to the Romans to destroy this temple. It was the Jews who Christ said were the ones who did come and destroy the temple for they are Christ's people. Not Romans at that time! The temple already fell along with Christ, spiritually speaking, but in three days Christ did raise it up. It is not physical temple. Not physical stones. Don't get it? You do not have the Truth.


It is historical fact that the Romans destroyed the city and sanctuary.

According to who? God or Josephus?

The 7 year 70th week is still unfulfilled.

Wrong. The final week of Daniel 9:27 has confirmed at the Cross with the Blood of the Lamb and it lasts over the New Testament period with church built with Gentiles be coming in with Satan restrained (bound). After the testimony of 1,260 days, Satan will be loosened and bring desolation to the church on 1,290 day. The 1,335 day is the day Christ will return. So the long running of the final week of Daniel 9:27 is about to end soon.
 

Douggg

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Incorrect. You got the people of the prince wrong because you tried to insert an "evil" prince in the context where God DID NOT say. Have you taken a writing class? The prince in context is talking about no one but Messiah the Prince. Not a third party where you insert and make a claim that it is about Titus, or antichrist as preterists and premillennialists often do.
I did not insert the word evil into the text. I did say the evil prince that shall come. You are making stuff up.

You are inserting the word Messiah into the text in front of the prince that shall come, as you are claiming that Messiah the Prince and the prince that shall come is the same person. It is not "Messiah the prince that shall come" in the text.

Daniel 9:25, 62 weeks unto Messiah the Prince - fulfulled in John 12:12-15.

Daniel 9:26a after 62 weeks Messiah cutoff - fulfilled 4days later, Jesus crucified.

Daniel 9:26b the people of the prince that shall come destroy the city and sanctuary - fulfilled 70ad

Daniel 9:26c the end of the 70 weeks, a flood of troubles, the war of Armageddon, desolations (transgression and abomination) - unfulfilled.

Daniel 9:27a the prince who shall come confirms the Mt. Sinai covenant for the 7 years cycle. The 70th week begins.

Daniel 9:27b in the midst of the 70th week, daily sacrificed stopped, temple made desolate by abominations, all the way to the end of the 70th week. Until judgment takes place on the ones making the temple desolate.
 

TribulationSigns

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You are grammatically wrong. You are content wrong. You are historically wrong. You are wrong about who confirms the covenant for 7 years.

Right back at you.
Ezekiel 39 provide infallible proof regarding the 70th week is unfulfilled - until after the Gog/Magog event.

You do not even understand who and what Gog and Magog is. A big bad red bear in the North? LOL.
Ezekiel 39, the Gog/Magog event. Followed by 7 years in verses 9-10. Followed by the Armageddon event in verses 17-20. Followed by Jesus return to this earth, His Second Coming, Jesus Himself speaking in the text verse 21-29.

Typical Premillennial doctrine that is NOT supported by Scripture.
From the Judaism 101 site by Jews of what they believe....

Judaism 101? Oh boy...
The term "mashiach" literally means "the anointed one," and refers to the ancient practice of anointing kings with oil when they took the throne. The mashiach is the one who will be anointed as king in the End of Days.

Wow...
Daniel 9:24 says the Most Holy (Holy of Holiest) would be anointed. The anointing of the hallowed Holy is the prophecy of the anointing of Christ. You already forgot that Christ "IS" the Sanctuary Himself? Have you forgotten that Christ is the Holy of Holiest? Have you forgotten that Christ "is" the Holy Temple" Himself? Hae you forgotten that the veil separating the Holiest of HOly is Christ's flesh, according to Scripture? Unforentely, like may theologians, you do not understand that the prophecy was of the Messiah, not a physical Holy room of a literal temple building nor an evil prince. God used the physical building in the Old Testament as a skia or shadow that prefigured the True which is Christ Himself. And with Christ's anointing, Israel can enter through His flesh into the Holy of Holiest.

Therefore, the veil that separates the Holy of HOLIEST (access to God) is now in Christ. It is no longer in a literal Temple in the Middle East, nor can be. Israel now can come directly to God through, the veil which is in the body of Christ, through that Holy Temple. But don't take my word for it..

Hebrews 10:19
  • "having therefore, brethren boldness to enter into the Holiest by the blood of Jesus. By a new and Living way, which He hath consecrated for us through The Veil, that is to say, His flesh."
When the Messiah was anointed, this was the anointing of the Holy of HOLIEST. When Jesus Christ was anointed, this prophecy of Daniel chapter 9 was fulfilled.

Acts 10:38
  • "How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with Power.."
Acts 4:27
  • "For of a truth against thy HOLY Child Jesus, whom thou hast anointed, both Herod, and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles, and the People of Israel, were gathered together."
Anointing an evil price to fit your faulty doctrine? Please read the Scripture carefully and stop making things up!

The Antichrist will be anointed the King of Israel, thought-to-be messiah that the Jews are looking for.

Anointed the King of Israel?? Exactly where in Scripture does that say this?! Or it is something that you make it up?

It will happen right after the Gog/Magog event.

I do not read that in Scirpture. Show us chapter and verse to support your nonsenses!
 

TribulationSigns

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I did not insert the word evil into the text. I did say the evil prince that shall come.

Same thing, silly.
You are making stuff up.

Prove me with Scirpture.

You are inserting the word Messiah into the text in front of the prince that shall come, as you are claiming that Messiah the Prince and the prince that shall come is the same person. It is not "Messiah the prince that shall come" in the text.

According to the context of Daniel 9:24-27. God said it. Not me. The prince in the context is STILL talking about the same prince per context. Go back to school and ask your elementary English teacher.
Daniel 9:25, 62 weeks unto Messiah the Prince - fulfulled in John 12:12-15.

So? Christ's three years ministry is part of 62 weeks.
Daniel 9:26a after 62 weeks Messiah cutoff - fulfilled 4days later, Jesus crucified.

Okay. and?
Daniel 9:26b the people of the prince that shall come destroy the city and sanctuary - fulfilled 70ad

LOL!! Wrong people. IT is Christ's own people who came against Him. You have no clues what city and sanctuary Christ was actually talking about. Not surprised with those with carnal minds.
Daniel 9:26c the end of the 70 weeks, a flood of troubles, the war of Armageddon, desolations (transgression and abomination) - unfulfilled.

Huh? Armageddon in verse 26? Sigh... Please read Scripture:

Luk 13:34-35
(34) O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, which killest the prophets, and stonest them that are sent unto thee; how often would I have gathered thy children together, as a hen doth gather her brood under her wings, and ye would not!
(35) Behold, your house is left unto you desolate: and verily I say unto you, Ye shall not see me, until the time come when ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.

The Old Testament congregaiton was desolate when Christ said it. That is why she fell and in three days Christ rebuilt it. Not physical temple but temple that represents the congregation (people).

Daniel 9:27a the prince who shall come confirms the Mt. Sinai covenant for the 7 years cycle. The 70th week begins.

Show me the chapter and verse that the covenant in Daniel 9:27 is "Mt. Sinai Covenant." Like I said, you had no clues what covenant it was that Christ need to confirm (or make strength) for His People after the fall of Old Testament congregation.

Daniel 9:27b in the midst of the 70th week, daily sacrificed stopped, temple made desolate by abominations, all the way to the end of the 70th week. Until judgment takes place on the ones making the temple desolate.

Wrongo!

Remember, Christ was building his Church with the Gospel of Salvation through His Church (Two Witnesses). That is what the sacrifice is all about what Christ did before God on our behalf. After all Elect are secured, Revelation 7:1-4, Christ will cause the sacrifice to cease. It means there will be more more salvation left in the church and the power of the Holy People (Elect) is scattered. Christ also allowed His unfaithful congregation to become desolate by allowing Satan's army of false prophets and christs to rule in their church to deceive them as judgment. Until the Consummation when Christ returns.

Simple as that... if you receive this truth.
 

Timtofly

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Not with Daniel 9:27, but 70 AD identifies what people the prince that shall come will be of.

Jesus left this world before 70 AD and Jesus was not of the Romans. Jesus's people were the Jews.
The Jews destroyed their own city. Just read Josephus. That is how we know something even happened in 70AD.

The Romans destroyed the walls, but all they did is finish up the destruction that went on for the entire siege within the walls.

The Jews could have surrendered immediately upon Titus' arrival. It is not that Roman occupation of Jerusalem was a new and strange concept.

You are basing your view of Scripture on an historical account about the Romans. But the message from Gabriel was about the Jews and their cutting off their own Messiah.

The civil war among the Jews was just that, civil and not necessarily against the Romans. People forget that the only reason the Romans started to come in larger military operations, was the Jews fighting each other and the Roman Pax in the region was becoming unstable.

But you are still avoiding the point that at the 7th Trumpet the Lord via the Prince to Come, Jesus is announced King over all nations, and that is when the Covenant is confirmed with the many as now they are all under the authority of Jesus Christ. At that point it will be determined if they all physically die in the winepress of God's wrath or will time be extended to allow for those who are later defined as being beheaded. No one was beheaded prior to the sounding of the 7th Trumpet.

The word confirm was used. The Hebrew "gabar" means strong or mighty. This is not some OT enforced Law. This is not some peace agreement between nations.

This is the strength of Christ's authority over sin and death. The wicked will be destroyed in this show of strength of the Atonement that has been the salvation of mankind, but God's grace and the punishment has been declared over. That is what time up is meaning concerning the days of the 7th Trumpet.

The English meaning of the word confirm is showing us the moment of truth has come. The time of redemption has run out. The NT or Atonement Covenant of the Cross is about to be declared finished. None of Adam's dead corruptible flesh will be allowed to continue past this time for current creation.

Many claim the time up at the 7th Trumpet is not the 70 weeks. They want that time up in the first century and totally miss the point of time up in Revelation 10. Then get bent out of shape when told that would mean the 7th Trumpet sounded in the first century.

It would also mess up their time up at the Second Coming point. Then many others want the whole entire 70th week to be future. The 70th week is Jesus Christ the King. Because Gabriel says until Messiah the Prince. It does not say until only the Messiah and someone else will be declared Prince who is not Jesus.

"Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks."

The next verse already gives an OT reference that time would be extended, with the 70th week being cut in half. The 70th week would not be finished until the Prince to come, actually came. So Messiah was already prophecied as being cut off, physically no more on the earth, and the week would be postponed indefinitely until a return of the Messiah as the Prince.

Verse 27 cannot be the interim of the 70th week. Verse 27 cannot take place until after the Prince returns. It is not the Messiah who confirms the Covenant, it is the Prince to come who confirms the Covenant. That is all evident within the text itself. Placing the prophesy into history is a secondary interpretation from other Scripture.

BTW: until the Prince comes and declares the 70th week over, those promises in verse 24 cannot be implemented, even if the work was already accomplished by the Messiah. We cannot have the 70th week finished until the King is announced at the 7th Trumpet. We cannot have the entire 70th week in the future, because the Messiah part was declared finished by Jesus on the Cross.

Paul declared blindness in part was placed on Israel until their Prince returned. So that proves Paul understood the gap of the 70th week, even though he did not write a commentary on the book of Daniel.

"For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins."

Their sins taken away is a direct point found in Daniel 9:24. The term mystery is referred directly by John in Revelation 10 about the 7th Trumpet.

"But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets."

The mystery Paul does not want us to be ignorant of can only be declared finished at the 7th Trumpet. That is when Jesus is declared King over evey nation. That is when Daniel 9:27 happens and Jesus confirms the Atonement Covenant.

The foundation of the Covenant was the Cross and Jesus as Messiah. The Strength of the Covenant is Jesus as King at the 7th Trumpet.

Only after the 7th Trumpet will there be an AoD or Satan's 8th kingdom for what it is worth. This Aod is not the second half of something. The AoD is not a period in between two seperate 3.5 year periods, which Daniel 9:27 infers. The only reality is that the AoD splits a week of days in half and that is the days of the sounding of the 7th Trumpet. We see the last 3.5 days after those 42 months, as the time the 2 witnesses lay dead, and the same 3.5 days the 7 vials are poured out. All events within the sounding of the 7th Trumpet.