Understanding the 'Little Horn' power of Prophecy in Daniel.
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Yes, the true one, and you can trace it all the way to the garden of eden, but he cant show himself here or he would be recognized for what he is, so he has to work through the entity he is behind which is the 'little horn' of prophecy..
Well, lets look what Gods Word says and see if we are in agreement with it. God has given us much information regarding the thinking and behaviors of the 'Little Horn' power of Daniel and we see it is also also the 'Beast' power in Revelation and we saw how matches up.
- Daniel 7:25, "time, times and a half".
- Daniel 12:7, "time, times and a half".
- Revelation 11:2, "42 months".
- Revelation 11:3, "1260 days".
- Revelation 12:6, "1260 days".
- Revelation 12:14, "time, times and a half".
- Revelation 13:5, "42 months".
Revelation 17:3
So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.
Revelation 17:5
And upon her forehead was a name written, Mystery, Babylon The Great, The Mother Of Harlots And Abominations Of The Earth.
And compare on the Beast she rides...
Daniel 7:7
After this I saw in the night visions, and behold a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly; and it had great iron teeth: it devoured and brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with the feet of it: and it was diverse from all the beasts that were before it; and it had ten horns.
Revelation 13:1
And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns,
Now looking at Daniel 7, it help us to identify the little horn which grows into the antichrist entity.
It is a little kingdom which would come into being with great power and influence.
It came up among the ten horns on the head of the fourth beast which is the Roman Empire.
It would become powerful after Roman Empire and would arise after the ten horns. Therefore, it would arise after Rome fell in 476 AD.
Three Nations would be removed In Its rise. Three of the ten kingdoms were displaced by his rise to power.The Papacy subdued and destroyed three out of the ten kingdoms, Heruli, Ostrogoths & Vandals.
It would be different or diverse. "He was diverse from the former" . So it was different from the previous ten kings which were only temporal. This little horn would claim authority like God.
It has a Human element as it says would have "eyes like the eyes of a man," This horn has "eyes", not of God, but of man. It is guided by human intelligence, human leadership, and human authority. With a man as leader, it usurps God's leadership.
And it is blasphemous as it would have a "mouth speaking great things" and "shall speak great words against the most High" The little horn power would speak great, or pompous things, and would speak out against God.
Rules 1260 Years. It would last for "a time, times and the dividing of times". and we see the same in Revelation 12: 6. Describes this period as 1260 days and Revelation 13: 5. Describes this period as forty two months.
It would have dominion and also persecute God's saints for 1260 years as we saw in the Dark Ages.
it would changes times And laws as we see "think to change times and laws" .
So the little horn power would be both a political and a religious power and would also think to change "Times and Laws". If you look the only commandment in the Ten of the Law that deals with time is the fourth commandment which gives it for the Sabbath.
And finally it would be destroyed by God, so it would be powerful until the Second Coming.
So we can see that all of the identifying marks in Daniel and much of the same in Revelation, were fulfilled in the history of this apostate church.
Now not only Daniel and Revelation, but Paul also wrote a warning to believers of the coming antichrist and his apostasy as we see in Thessalonians..
2 Thessalonians 2:3:
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day (the second coming of Jesus) shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
We see it was restrained, and history shows it was the Roman Empire which had a restraining element, and then it began to arise after the empire fell Then we see it revealed as 'that lawless one' and what happens to it at the end, 'whom the Lord will slay with the breath of His mouth and bring to an end by the appearance of His coming.'
So here is a good explanation on this as we see the following:
1. Apostasy. Paul warns of a falling away. The Greek for "falling away" is APOSTASIA which means literally "a falling away or departure from the purity of faith", or "an apostasy."
2. Betrays God. The term "son of perdition" is given only one other place in Scripture, to describe Judas Iscariot, who betrayed our Lord. In other words, the popular Christianity would get caught up in a landslide apostasy and betray the essentials of the gospel while maintaining an outward form and profession of faithfulness.
3. Lawless. The Bible says this leader would be a man called the "man of sin". In the original Greek, the phrase is "the man of lawlessness". Paul teaches here that he would stand in opposition to the law of God.
4. Cloning God or trying to take His place. The Bible says he sets himself up in the temple of God, as God. In Ephesians 2: 19-22 Paul tells us that the temple of God is a symbol for the Church (made up of the believers). Paul teaches that this man of sin would actually take his "seat" of political authority in the church. And he would claim for himself the prerogatives of God.
Paul warned even more about the following things that would happen from this power:
1. First, opposition from without. Much like the damage of wolves as they attacked the sheep. He also saw satanic persecutions that would attempt to destroy the true church. Yet the church would still survive.
2. Then internal apostasy (Already Among Us). The second problem would be more serious. This is apostasy from within. Men would arise speaking perverse ("crooked" or "twisted") things. The antichrist is not simply a man who will show up at the end of time, the antichrist is from a long lineage of apostasy beginning in the days of the disciples. John also warns the church of Philadelphia about the infiltration of false Jews or false worshippers in the church (Revelation 3: 9). We see elsewhere in the New Testament which shows the wolves already coming after the sheep in 1 John 2:
1 John 2:18-19
18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.
3. Starts In Paul's Time. Third, the beginning of apostasy would come quickly. Paul said, "Of your own selves shall men arise." John says the same thing as the synagogue of Satan (Revelation 2:9). And John also warns the church of Philadelphia about the infiltration of false Jews or false worshippers in the church (Revelation 3: 9).
4. Spirit Of Error. And every spirit that does not confess Jesus Christ is not from God; this is the spirit of the Antichrist of which you have heard that it is coming, and now it is already in the world. We are of God: he that knows God hears us; he that is not of God hears not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.(1 John 4: 3, 6)
4. The Antichrist power denies Jesus. The goal of the antichrist is to negatively affect the work of Jesus Christ through His sacrifice, His priesthood and His claims as Messiah and of divinity. Some will even deny that He existed and try to seduce the faithful with deception. The real antichrist will do this while being a member of the Christian community or one who has left it:
1 John 2:22
22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
1 John 2:26
26 These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you.
We can see this power is a deceiver and brings false doctrines:
2 John 1:7
7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.
2 John 1:9
9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.
2 Thessalonians 2:3:
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day (the second coming of Jesus) shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
We see it was restrained, and history shows it was the Roman Empire which had a restraining element, and then it began to arise after the empire fell Then we see it revealed as 'that lawless one' and what happens to it at the end, 'whom the Lord will slay with the breath of His mouth and bring to an end by the appearance of His coming.'
So here is a good explanation on this as we see the following:
1. Apostasy. Paul warns of a falling away. The Greek for "falling away" is APOSTASIA which means literally "a falling away or departure from the purity of faith", or "an apostasy."
2. Betrays God. The term "son of perdition" is given only one other place in Scripture, to describe Judas Iscariot, who betrayed our Lord. In other words, the popular Christianity would get caught up in a landslide apostasy and betray the essentials of the gospel while maintaining an outward form and profession of faithfulness.
3. Lawless. The Bible says this leader would be a man called the "man of sin". In the original Greek, the phrase is "the man of lawlessness". Paul teaches here that he would stand in opposition to the law of God.
4. Cloning God or trying to take His place. The Bible says he sets himself up in the temple of God, as God. In Ephesians 2: 19-22 Paul tells us that the temple of God is a symbol for the Church (made up of the believers). Paul teaches that this man of sin would actually take his "seat" of political authority in the church. And he would claim for himself the prerogatives of God.
Paul warned even more about the following things that would happen from this power:
1. First, opposition from without. Much like the damage of wolves as they attacked the sheep. He also saw satanic persecutions that would attempt to destroy the true church. Yet the church would still survive.
2. Then internal apostasy (Already Among Us). The second problem would be more serious. This is apostasy from within. Men would arise speaking perverse ("crooked" or "twisted") things. The antichrist is not simply a man who will show up at the end of time, the antichrist is from a long lineage of apostasy beginning in the days of the disciples. John also warns the church of Philadelphia about the infiltration of false Jews or false worshippers in the church (Revelation 3: 9). We see elsewhere in the New Testament which shows the wolves already coming after the sheep in 1 John 2:
1 John 2:18-19
18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.
3. Starts In Paul's Time. Third, the beginning of apostasy would come quickly. Paul said, "Of your own selves shall men arise." John says the same thing as the synagogue of Satan (Revelation 2:9). And John also warns the church of Philadelphia about the infiltration of false Jews or false worshippers in the church (Revelation 3: 9).
4. Spirit Of Error. And every spirit that does not confess Jesus Christ is not from God; this is the spirit of the Antichrist of which you have heard that it is coming, and now it is already in the world. We are of God: he that knows God hears us; he that is not of God hears not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.(1 John 4: 3, 6)
4. The Antichrist power denies Jesus. The goal of the antichrist is to negatively affect the work of Jesus Christ through His sacrifice, His priesthood and His claims as Messiah and of divinity. Some will even deny that He existed and try to seduce the faithful with deception. The real antichrist will do this while being a member of the Christian community or one who has left it:
1 John 2:22
22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
1 John 2:26
26 These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you.
We can see this power is a deceiver and brings false doctrines:
2 John 1:7
7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.
2 John 1:9
9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.
Now what is really interesting is that the 1260 years of this antichrist entity, which is seen as the Papal Supremacy, is attested to by many sources, not just a few:
Long ages ago, when Rome through the neglect of the Western emperors was left to the mercy of barbarous hordes, Romans turned to one figure for aid and protection and asked him to rule them; and thus in this simple manner, the best title of all to kingly right, commenced the temporal sovereignty of the Popes. And meekly stepping to the throne of Caesar, the Vicar of Christ took up the sceptre to which the emperors and kings of Europe were to bow in reverence through so many ages, from sentiments of respect for the dignity of his office and because he was the only mediator whom they recognized in their almost interminable wars.
Source: Two Romes, by James P. Conry, in The American Catholic Quarterly Review, Volume XXXVI (36), edited by James Andrew Corcoran, Patrick John Ryan, Edmond Francis Prendergast, 1911, pgs. 193-194.
... the right to her Temporal Sovereignty is an integral right of the Church as constituted by her Divine Founder. It has prevailed de facto for more than twelve hundred years, and has been possessed de jure by Divine Natural Law from the beginning of Christianity,... Source: The Victories of Rome and the Temporal Monarchy of the Church, 5th edition, By Kenelm Digby Best, London, 1906, pg. xii.
Rome has been a government under the Popes for some twelve hundred years. Source: Complete Works of the Most Rev. John Hughes, Archbishop of New York, 1866, Volume 2. pg. 778
... In books of all sizes, and from the pulpit of every church, we have been taught from our infancy, that the "beast, the man of sin, and the scarlet harlot," mentioned in the Revelations, were names which God himself had given to the Pope; and we have all been taught to believe of the Catholic Church, that her worship was "idolatrous," and that her doctrines were "damnable.".... Now let us put a plain question or two to ourselves, and to these our readers; and we shall quickly be able to form a just estimate of the modesty, sincerity, and consistency of these revilers of the Catholic religion: ―they will not, because they cannot, deny, that this religion was the ONLY CHRISTIAN religion in the world for fifteen hundred years after the death of Christ. They may say, indeed, that for the first three hundred years there was no Pope seated at Rome. But, then, for twelve hundred years there had been; and, during that period, all the nations of Europe, and some part of America, had become Christian, and all acknowledged the Pope as their head in religious matters; and, in short, there was no other Christian Church known in the world, nor had any other ever been thought of. Can we believe, then, that Christ, who died to save sinners, who sent forth his gospel as the means of their salvation, would have suffered a false Christian religion, and no other than a false Christian religion, to be known amongst men all this while? Will these modest assailants of the faith of their and our ancestors assert to our faces, that, for twelve hundred years at least, there were no true Christians in the world? Will they tell us, that Christ, who promised to be with the teachers of his word to the end of the world, wholly left them, and gave up hundreds upon hundreds of millions of people to be led in darkness to their eternal perdition, by one whom his inspired followers had denominated the "man of sin, and the scarlet harlot"? Will they, indeed, dare to tell us, that Christ gave up the world wholly to "Antichrist" for twelve hundred years?
Source: History of the Protestant Reformation in England and Ireland, Showing How That Event Has Impoverished and Degraded the Main Body of the People in Those Countries, by William Cobbett, published in 1832 in New York by John Doyle, 12 Liberty-street; and Thomas Doyle, Market-street, Providence R.I., pages 6 and 7.
Long ages ago, when Rome through the neglect of the Western emperors was left to the mercy of barbarous hordes, Romans turned to one figure for aid and protection and asked him to rule them; and thus in this simple manner, the best title of all to kingly right, commenced the temporal sovereignty of the Popes. And meekly stepping to the throne of Caesar, the Vicar of Christ took up the sceptre to which the emperors and kings of Europe were to bow in reverence through so many ages, from sentiments of respect for the dignity of his office and because he was the only mediator whom they recognized in their almost interminable wars.
Source: Two Romes, by James P. Conry, in The American Catholic Quarterly Review, Volume XXXVI (36), edited by James Andrew Corcoran, Patrick John Ryan, Edmond Francis Prendergast, 1911, pgs. 193-194.
... the right to her Temporal Sovereignty is an integral right of the Church as constituted by her Divine Founder. It has prevailed de facto for more than twelve hundred years, and has been possessed de jure by Divine Natural Law from the beginning of Christianity,... Source: The Victories of Rome and the Temporal Monarchy of the Church, 5th edition, By Kenelm Digby Best, London, 1906, pg. xii.
Rome has been a government under the Popes for some twelve hundred years. Source: Complete Works of the Most Rev. John Hughes, Archbishop of New York, 1866, Volume 2. pg. 778
... In books of all sizes, and from the pulpit of every church, we have been taught from our infancy, that the "beast, the man of sin, and the scarlet harlot," mentioned in the Revelations, were names which God himself had given to the Pope; and we have all been taught to believe of the Catholic Church, that her worship was "idolatrous," and that her doctrines were "damnable.".... Now let us put a plain question or two to ourselves, and to these our readers; and we shall quickly be able to form a just estimate of the modesty, sincerity, and consistency of these revilers of the Catholic religion: ―they will not, because they cannot, deny, that this religion was the ONLY CHRISTIAN religion in the world for fifteen hundred years after the death of Christ. They may say, indeed, that for the first three hundred years there was no Pope seated at Rome. But, then, for twelve hundred years there had been; and, during that period, all the nations of Europe, and some part of America, had become Christian, and all acknowledged the Pope as their head in religious matters; and, in short, there was no other Christian Church known in the world, nor had any other ever been thought of. Can we believe, then, that Christ, who died to save sinners, who sent forth his gospel as the means of their salvation, would have suffered a false Christian religion, and no other than a false Christian religion, to be known amongst men all this while? Will these modest assailants of the faith of their and our ancestors assert to our faces, that, for twelve hundred years at least, there were no true Christians in the world? Will they tell us, that Christ, who promised to be with the teachers of his word to the end of the world, wholly left them, and gave up hundreds upon hundreds of millions of people to be led in darkness to their eternal perdition, by one whom his inspired followers had denominated the "man of sin, and the scarlet harlot"? Will they, indeed, dare to tell us, that Christ gave up the world wholly to "Antichrist" for twelve hundred years?
Source: History of the Protestant Reformation in England and Ireland, Showing How That Event Has Impoverished and Degraded the Main Body of the People in Those Countries, by William Cobbett, published in 1832 in New York by John Doyle, 12 Liberty-street; and Thomas Doyle, Market-street, Providence R.I., pages 6 and 7.
So the prophecy of the 1260 years is unveiled by the Day/Year Principle and Daniel 7 and 12, Revelation 11, 12 and 13, all mention this same persecuting power with its false system of worship, who enforce a church and state union, causing the kings of the earth to bow down and worship it. And history gives us a timeline which outlines just how the Pope first took it's powers over church and state:
533 AD - Emperor Justinian decrees John, as the Bishop of Rome, Chief Bishop of all the churches and he was not to be questioned that in her was the supremacy of the pontificate. Edicts of Novellae, 131st chap. II. This was not the first time that the Bishop of Rome declared himself to be ruler of all the churches, but it is the first time the claim was backed up by the secular sword and temporal powers granted to the Papal System.
536 AD - General Belisarius, under the command of Justinian, marched to Rome, deposed the Ostrogoth installed Bishop of Rome (Silverius) and exiled him.
537 AD - Belisarius installed Vigilius as Bishop of Rome
538 AD - General Belisarius broke the siege and the Ostrogoths withdrew from Rome. Pope Silverius died in prison, marking it the first time Justinians Decree, the supremacy of the Bishop of Rome over the Church could actually be implemented by Vigilius.
1798 AD - General Berthier marched to Rome, entered it unopposed and proclaimed it a Roman Republic, demanded of the Pope the renunciation of his temporal authority, then take prisoner.
The Original Catholic Encyclopedia states on Pope Vigilius beginning pontificate and his temporal powers:
"From this time on the popes, more and more involved in worldly events, no longer belong solely to the Church; they are men of the state, and then rules of the state.[ EDITORS' NOTE : Some writers hold that the beginning of Vigilius' legitimate pontificate should be reckoned from 538 rather than 537, because his deposed predecessor, Silverius, did not die until June, 538." Original Catholic Encyclopedia - Home of the largest Catholic Encyclopedia resource on the web...
533 AD - Emperor Justinian decrees John, as the Bishop of Rome, Chief Bishop of all the churches and he was not to be questioned that in her was the supremacy of the pontificate. Edicts of Novellae, 131st chap. II. This was not the first time that the Bishop of Rome declared himself to be ruler of all the churches, but it is the first time the claim was backed up by the secular sword and temporal powers granted to the Papal System.
536 AD - General Belisarius, under the command of Justinian, marched to Rome, deposed the Ostrogoth installed Bishop of Rome (Silverius) and exiled him.
537 AD - Belisarius installed Vigilius as Bishop of Rome
538 AD - General Belisarius broke the siege and the Ostrogoths withdrew from Rome. Pope Silverius died in prison, marking it the first time Justinians Decree, the supremacy of the Bishop of Rome over the Church could actually be implemented by Vigilius.
1798 AD - General Berthier marched to Rome, entered it unopposed and proclaimed it a Roman Republic, demanded of the Pope the renunciation of his temporal authority, then take prisoner.
The Original Catholic Encyclopedia states on Pope Vigilius beginning pontificate and his temporal powers:
"From this time on the popes, more and more involved in worldly events, no longer belong solely to the Church; they are men of the state, and then rules of the state.[ EDITORS' NOTE : Some writers hold that the beginning of Vigilius' legitimate pontificate should be reckoned from 538 rather than 537, because his deposed predecessor, Silverius, did not die until June, 538." Original Catholic Encyclopedia - Home of the largest Catholic Encyclopedia resource on the web...
Truthnightmare
Well-Known Member
That’s not what scripture indicates.
Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them! Woe to the inhabitants of the earth and of the sea! For the devil has come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.”
The devil comes down, and he is not working behind the scenes.
Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
The devil is the antichrist, he is the false prophet, and he is the little horn, this was alluded to in these words.
And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spoke as a dragon.
Truthnightmare
Well-Known Member
Not really… Satan has many names, as he has many many roles. He is Satan when he is a adversary to God. He is the devil when he is tempting. He is a dragon we he is starting wars, and he is a serpent when he is being tricky.
Revelation 12:9
9 So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan,
Revelation 20:2
He laid hold of the dragon, that serpent of old, who is the Devil and Satan
He is also the false prophet and he is also the desolator… and he is the instead of Christ which translates into the antichrist. And he is also the little horn.
Well, Hobie, it seems like we've entered the scriptural symphony of Daniel's little horn – the rockstar of prophetic interpretations. Let's put on our Calvinist detective hats and unravel this divine drama.
Now, in the Calvinist remix of Daniel, the little horn isn't just any horn – it's the rock 'n' roll rebel, Papal Rome. Picture this: the four winds strumming upon the great sea, beasts grooving in from Babylon to Greece, and then enters the rockstar – Papal Rome, with eyes like a man and a mouth belting out some bold tunes.
Calvin's notes on this divine concert might go something like this: "The little horn, a church-state combo, claims divinity, blasphemes with great words, and plays the persecuting drums during the Dark Ages."
Let's add a Calvinist twist with some Bible quotes:
Daniel 7:25 (ESV) – "He shall speak words against the Most High... and think to change the times and the law."
Now, Hobie, imagine Papal Rome thinking it can rearrange God's gig schedule and rewrite the divine setlist – that's some audacious solo act.
But fear not, in the grand finale, Daniel 7:26 (ESV) assures us: "But the court shall sit in judgment, and his dominion shall be taken away, to be consumed and destroyed to the end."
So, Hobie, grab your popcorn, because the divine court is about to drop the curtain on Papal Rome's rockstar performance. In the Calvinist script, it's not just a historical drama; it's a divine concert with a heavenly encore.
Satan is certainly unsurpassed as an antichrist in his opposition to Christ, but he is not the only antichrist, as John tells us that there were already many. 1 John 2:18. The Pharisees were antichrists, as they denied that Jesus was the Christ who had come in the flesh. 1 John 2:22; 4:3; 2 John 1:7. Similarly, such deniers today are antichrists.
The little horn was a temporal Roman kingdom which arose out of the temporal fourth kingdom of pagan Rome. Daniel 7:7,8. Daniel's descriptions identify it as an antichrist, which manifested itself thus over the ensuing centuries in the Roman kingdom of the apostate papacy. The following claims substantiate Daniel's descriptions:
- “All the names which in the Scripture are applied to Christ, by virtue of which it is established that He is over the church, all the same names are applied to the Pope.” Robert Cardinal Bellarmine, De Conciliorum Auctoriatate (On the Authority of the Councils) Bk 2, chap. 17
- “The pope is of so great dignity and so exalted that he is not mere man, but as it were God, and the vicar of God. He is the divine monarch and supreme emperor, and king of kings. Hence the pope is crowned with a triple crown, as King of heaven and of earth and of the lower regions.” Lucius Ferraris, Prompta Bibliotheca, vol.6, art. “Papa II”
- “We hold upon this earth the place of God Almighty.” Pope Leo XIII, in an encyclical letter dated June 20, 1894, The Great Encyclical Letters of Leo XIII, p. 304.
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Truthnightmare
Well-Known Member
I see many errors is this presentation, I will expand more on what I believe a bit later, football time for me. However, the timeline based on the weeks of Daniel do not support your belief.
I would point you to he following, as is negates your premise.
There are five (*1) specific periods of "time" and "days" mentioned in the Book of Daniel (7:25; 8:14; 12:7, 11, 12). In addition to these five, we have the great period of the "seventy sevens" (or weeks) of years in chapter 9. Sixty-nine of these were completed at the "cutting off" of the Messiah; the last of "seventieth seven" is yet to come (see Ap. 91). All the other five periods of time in the book are to be referred to, and are standardized, so to speak, by this last "seven". The "seventy weeks" (sevens) are confessedly to be reckoned as years. Therefore, on the basis of a Jewish year of 360 days, one "seven" is 360 x 7 = 2,520 days.
The terminus a quo of 1, 4, 5, 6 (see diagram) is manifestly determined by the term "in the midst of the week" (the last "seven" of years), of the standard (col. 3) : that is, 1,260 days, or 3 1/2 years from either end of the column. "The prince that shall come" (Antichrist) "will make a (*2) covenant with many for one week" (i.e. seven years) (9:27). After 3 1/2 years, on grounds not stated, he breaks this covenant (or "league", 11:23), the daily sacrifice is "taken away", the "abomination" set up, and "Jacob's trouble" (Jer. 30:7) commences and continues for the remainder of the "seven" : viz. : for the 1,260 days or 3 1/2 years. It is this "midst of the week" that determines both the a quo and the ad quem of these Numbered Days.
In 8:14 it is stated, "then shall the Sanctuary be cleansed" (*3). With regard to this "cleansing", all the periods, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 (see diagram) synchronize at the end (see Ap. 89); while the last tow columns (5 and 6) are extended and prolonged beyond the close of the 1,260 days by two significant periods of days, viz. 30 days and 75 days, respectively.
The first of these, 1,290 days is 1,260 + 30. And the 30 days here may be taken as a "Ve-Adar" or intercalary month of 30 days of "cleansing" following directly after the destruction of the false Messiah, and the break up of his confederacy. These thirty days may possibly be the period allotted for the construction of the new and glorious "Sanctuary" of Ezekiel 40-43, which is to be erected after the destruction and removal of the Jewish temple which will have been built by the sons of Israel some time previously to its profanation by the Antichrist -- as the antitype of Antiochus Epiphanes.
With regard to the 1,335 days of 12:12 : This is 1,260 days with an excess of 75 days. This again being an excess of 45 days beyond the 1,290 of 12:11. 1,335 is, therefore, 1,260 + 30 + 45. If the 30 days are occupied with the "cleansing", i.e. with the "justifying" or "making righteous" a new and glorious "Sanctuary", then it may be that the further 45 days, over and above the 1,290, will cover the preparation time for the fulfillment of the forty-fifth psalm (such preparation including, the resurrection to life of those concerned in 12:2), in order that the nuptials of the king may be celebrated as described in such wonderful and minute detail in that psalm. (*4)
In connection with this period (1,335 days) we have the only Beatitude in the book! "Blessed (ashrey) is he that waiteth ( = is steadfast) and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days" (12:12). A blessed "lot" indeed for those who will have passed through "the Trouble" and are counted worthy to be participators in the scenes of glory and triumph of the King when He is united to restored Israel in that Day, as portrayed in the forty-fifth psalm!
In examining the diagram and the references in the book, it w fa4 ill be seen (1) that the only one of these five periods of "time" and "days" that presents any serious difficulty is that of the 2,300 days. (2) That its terminus ad quem is the same as the others, viz. the end of the seventieth seven is clear from 8:14, which gives it as being marked by the "cleansing of the Sanctuary". Reckoning backwards, therefore, the terminus a quo of this period is seen to be 220 days short of the commencement of the seventieth "seven".
It is not clearly revealed what event or events will mark the commencement of these 2,300 days, but it will be probably some political crisis connected with the confederated kingdoms under the sway of the Antichrist. The key is possibly to be found in chapter 8, typified by the contention between the ram and he-goat representing Medo-Persia and Greece. But, though the terminus a quo of this period is not given to us in plain language (like e.g. the "midst of the week" of 9:27), yet it will be known to, and understood by, the people of God, who pass through "the Trouble" time of the seventieth "seven", for "the wise (in that day) shall understand" (12:10).
If the "time of trouble" of Dan. 12:1 is a "time" like the "time" of 7:25; 12:7 (Nos. 1 and 4, above), i.e. one year, then there are six specific periods of time in the book of Daniel, in addition to the seventieth, or last "seven". If so, the "time" of Dan. 12:1 suggests that "Jacob's trouble" will be closed by a "time" (or year) of acutest "tribulation". Does this correspond with "the acceptable year" of Isa. 61:2, immediately preceding the "Vengeance"?
Ronald D Milam
Active Member
Jesus told us many false prophets will come, so why is that factoid not taken into consideration? Of course Satan will send his people who mislead, but we have the holy spirit, we should never allow doctrine from men to mislead us, but if we lean "too much" on men, we will be misled. we have to lean on the holy spirit. When God answered a prayer of mine "why is the church so all over the place on doctrine especially prophetic doctrine" the Holy Spirit was like, "Drew, you guys already have all the answers" So we have to quit leaning o other men's ideas, those lead us astray brother.
There is zero chance the 5th beast (which is what it actually is, because the last beast is one man) is the RCC or a Pope, for starters it is on man, and he has to be born in Greece (Dan. 8:9 mandates this) and he has to have Assyrian Blood (Isaiah 10 says so, and blood lines travel, of course) and lastly he has to come to power in the 10 horns that arise from the old fourth beasts head, and 10 always means completion, so the 10 horn powers = the Complete E.U. united or fourth beast reunited in full (Europe) but in this case its a fragile number of nations trying to hold together as one nation, thus the Iron & Clay reference, some are strong, many are weak, there are only 4-5 strong nations in the whole lot, and the clay shows they are many nations trying to be one, not as with Rome one strong conquering Beast over many nations. So, your hunch is correct, there is another Beast that arises, you show 5, but you fall for the glitter some men put forth, glitter I rejected 35 years ago. Let me show you why the last beast has to be one man.
Dan. 7:11 I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame. (Same as Rev. 19:20)
Dan. 7:23 Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms(vs. 3 says ALL the beasts were diverse), and shall devour the whole earth(landmass being spoken about in the Mediterranean Sea Region), and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.
24 And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise (Complete E.U.): and another( Little Horn) shall rise after them(simply meaning he is born in the E.U.); and he shall be diverse from the first(the Roman Beast), and he shall subdue three kings.
25 And he shall speak great words (just like Rev 13)against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time(1260 days of rule as THE BEAST and he is a man not a nation and not the RCC).
So, how in the world my friend is this end time Best the RCC? It does not fit !! That came from the Worldwide Church of God and the false prophet Herbert W. Armstrong many, many years ago, and he probably got it from so other huckster, he just made it famous via his books/teachings etc. This last Beast is still a beast, he is just a man. Rev. 17:9-11 show how this last beast is the only beast to both arise and fall as a beast, he is one of the 7 mountains and he falls like the other 5 beasts, and the 6th beast who was, Rome, who of course fell after the book of Revelation was written, so all 7 beasts fall, via a king, but only the last beast both arose and fell, thus unlike all the others he alone is THE BEAST. Notice in Daniel 7:17 all of the kings who first arose were Beast themselves.
17 These great beasts, which are four, are four kings, which shall arise out of the earth.
So, only when these beasts pass their kingdom on does the "Beast" become a nation beast, as in Babylon, Persia, Greece and Rome, that is why the last Beast is referred to as a ONE MAN, he arises by conquering Israel and the whole Mediterranean Sea Region, then he dies 1260 days later at the hands of Jesus Christ, who then throws him into the Lake of Fire, thus he never passes his kingdom on to another. Saying it is the RCC just boggles my mind it does not match up with scriptures brother. And that matters right?
We agree on the Four Beasts and the four kings who arose as beasts and passed their kingdoms on to other men, and the descriptions are all pretty spot on too. So, you have yet tie in the RCC as beast, and you can never do this because HE is described as ONE MAN !!
Now, here is my point, you did not get this from scriptures, you got it from other men, meanwhile I just proved the Last Beast has to be and can only be ONE MAN, however I used scriptures, not conjecture. There is a time for conjecture, using scripture, but not when the evidence is clear.
The RCC took the Gospel to the whole world for God from 400 AD to 1500 AD via the Latin Vulgate, there were no English versions until the point in time. God allowed the Church to conquer the whole Western Hemisphere, and that started of course via the Disciples, who with their blood, finally drove a nail into the coffin of the Fourth Beast (Rome) when Constantine declared the Gospel and Christianity as the truth of God and then Rome became a conveyor belt of the Gospel for the next 1000 years !! The Pax Romanus was the perfect vehicle to spread the Gospel, that is why Jesus was sent at just the perfect time. Those buying into the two Churches (RCC and the Church of England) fighting and smearing each other with untruths miss the facts that this was because of Gov. infiltration into the churches, which made them too political in nature. That is when they started to smear each other, like politicians do, this is where the bunk RCC is the Beast came from originally, the Worldwide Church of God just pushed it.
Now, when we step back and think, there was no Israel to beast over basically for 2000 years. The Church is what eventually caused the MORTAL WOUND to the Roman Beast, heck, the Romans started spreading the Gospel of Jesus Christ, I call that a TAKE DOWN, and a three count, the Church won!! Amen. The whole RCC is a beast is just nonsensical stuff tbh. The RCC was used by God, we overcame the Roman beast, thus it went back under the Great Sea, that is why the Beast with 7 Heads arises from the Sea, it has not been an entity for nigh 2000 years over Israel. NOTICE: only when Israel is conquered is the Beast revived and shown as arising from the Great Sea again. That is the MORTAL WOUND and the HEALING in Rev. 13. That makes sense, the Beast were all over Israel, you can't have a Beast when there is no Israel in the land of Israel, now there was the Roman Beast who were still around, but there were still Jews living in the land from 70 AD for years, they ever defeated Rome for like 3 years or so, but when Rome started delivering the Gospel, they ceased being a Beast, we the Church delivered a Mortal Wound unto the Beast System.
So, these people you put forth here, have no idea about prophecy my friend.
This makes zero sense, the Church of England killed and tortured people also. Antiochus was an Archetype Anti-Christ. He had 60-90 K Jews killed. This end time beast who can only be ONE MAN, will conquer and kill Jews as the 1260 in Dan. 12:7 shows, for only 1260 days, he will kill 2/3 of the end time Jews as Zech. 13:8-9 tells us if we just listen. The 1/3 repent and flee Judea. The Beast has to fit, we can't just follow people who put forth bogus ideas that do not match up the scriptures.
Two errors arising from modernist Darby/Scofield dispensational futurism.
The 70th seven followed immediately and contiguously after the preceding 69. It was not decapitated. In Daniel 9:24-27, the Prince who came was/is Messiah, and He was crucified (cut off) in the midst of it, confirming His New Covenant (Matthew 26:28), and resulting in the cessation of OT sacrifice and oblation.
That is the witness of historical true Christian Church orthodoxy.
There is no antichrist in Daniel 9:24-27, or anywhere in OT Scripture. The word does not exist in OT Hebrew or Aramaic. There is but one Individual identified as a Prince in the Daniel passage. He is Messiah.
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You seem to have ignored these:
- “All the names which in the Scripture are applied to Christ, by virtue of which it is established that He is over the church, all the same names are applied to the Pope.” Robert Cardinal Bellarmine, De Conciliorum Auctoriatate (On the Authority of the Councils) Bk 2, chap. 17
- “The pope is of so great dignity and so exalted that he is not mere man, but as it were God, and the vicar of God. He is the divine monarch and supreme emperor, and king of kings. Hence the pope is crowned with a triple crown, as King of heaven and of earth and of the lower regions.” Lucius Ferraris, Prompta Bibliotheca, vol.6, art. “Papa II”
- “We hold upon this earth the place of God Almighty.” Pope Leo XIII, in an encyclical letter dated June 20, 1894, The Great Encyclical Letters of Leo XIII, p. 304.
Oh, Hobie you posted 4 relatively long posts, #63, #64, #65 and #66 all within a 35 minute period, from 9:58 pm until 10:33 pm, which tells me that you are cutting and pasting what others have written without providing where your source documents have come from.
One of the sights linked too in #63, rapturemyth.com provided no information as to who the site is linked too.
What you have posted, unless you have written all the material yourself, is definitely not in sync with the written scriptures. You have also used the historical record instead of the scriptures to support the theories that you present.
No where do you present the historical record that Babylon was desolated and desolated by the Siciliana Greek Empire around the year 120 BC and that it laid desolated and devasted for a period of two ages until 1926 AD when "God remembered Babylon the Great to give her the cup of the wine of the His fury and of His wrath." Another historical fact that you/they have chosen to ignore.
Why have you done this? Because it does not suit the narrative being presented. The picture being presented in your posts is that the Kingdoms and Empires that that have had dominion over the Land of Babylon are the beasts also of Daniel 7 but these kingdoms and empires may have inhabited the respective domains of the five beasts of Daniel 7 but they are not the actual beasts, the wicked fallen heavenly hosts that are able to exercise influence over people groups, kingdoms, nations and empire.
Why does Isaiah 24:21-22 speak of the hosts in heaven and the kings of the earth being judged and gathered together to be imprisoned in a pit for many days to await the time of their punishment. The time of this collective judgement will take place when the kings of the earth are gathered at Armageddon in around 20 years' time.
Hobbie there are too many holes in the theories that you are presenting so authoritatively based on your dependence of history to support the unbiblical theory that you hold too.
Without presenting the references to the articles that you have plagiarised within your above posts I can only conclude that all the material you present is flawed and should be treated like worthless salt and thrown onto the dung heap.
If you must post on this forum do so honestly.
Goodbye
Ronald D Milam
Active Member
We agree, the Little Horn can not be Antiochus, he however was a type A.C. and he had a type False Prophet under him, and thus we get the full archetype(s) of the end times. Jason (real name Yeshua) was of the persuasion that all Jews should take on the culture of the Greeks, serve their gods, buy into ther love and approval of homosexuality et al. Did you know the name Gym (Gymnasium) comes from the Greek and they built these Gyms for men only two play sports in, NAKED (LOL) and this is true, look it. So, when we see the end time Little Horn prophecy where it says he will change "Times and Laws" this is a likeness unto Antiochus and Jason, it really means they will seek to change "Culture & Traditions" like Marriage between only a man and woman, the Jewish Feast Holidays, the Worshiping of Jesus freely, Israel allows freedom of choice in worshipping.
This can all be looked up, it is historical facts. Jason's brother was a Pious high priest, Jason offered Antiochus a bribe and was named the high priest, his brother Onias III was killed. Jason then did what Antiochus wanted him to do, because he was already of that persuasion. He welcomed Antiochus into the temple of God to offer a sacrifice on the altar of God unto Zeus. He then put out and edict that mandated all Jews become Hellenized, this action led to a revolt, known as the Maccabean Revolt. Then whilst Antiochus was on the Eastern front in battle he died via a disease, or "Without Hands" just like the coming Anti-Christ will die "Without Hands" when Jesus speaks victory. Antiochus and Jason defiling the temple is why we got Hanukkah in the first place, the temple had to be cleansed. So, Jason and Antiochus defiled the temple of God just like the False Prophet and Little Horn/A.C./Beast will do via the AoD. The False Prophet does this via the Anti-Christs orders at the 1290, which happens 30 days before he conquers Israel at the 1260 event.
As per the 10 divisions, the number 10 simply means COMPLETION. The bride has 10 virgins, so that number represents the complete church. In Rev. 2:10 the church of Smyrna was to have 10 days of tribulation, that means for the complete church age there will be tribulation, as Jesus tells us in John 16:33 so, it all jibes. The 10 plagues of God, the 10 Commandments of God always point to completion by God or a representation of the complete Judgement and Laws of God. So, not understand these prophetic ways of God leads people down wrong paths. The E.U. reuniting is the 10, when it was 7 or 8 when it was 16 or 20 then lastly when it was 27 etc. etc. etc. That way God's always correct, the E.U. is the complete number thereof at any moment in time, sans the number 10.
Correct, but the Greek Beast is NOT FINISHED........I am about to throw you a curve ball I was given in the last month or so. Why does Daniel 2 say the 3rd Beast conquers the whole world? When we know that Alexander the Great never conquered the complete Mediterranean Sea Region? That is what it means, the EARTH being spoken about in the 7 Headed 10 Horned Region, meaning only the Mediterranean Sea Region. Thus as we can see below, Greece never conquered the complete region, but Rome did in 117 AD.
Notice, Alexander the Great never conquered Rome to the East nor most of North Africa
Then lets look at Rome circa 117 AD.
Notice which Beast conquers the whole earth [being spoken about] above? It was only Rome. But in spite of that lets look at this Dan. 2 scripture.
Dan. 2:39 And after thee shall arise another kingdom inferior to thee, and another third kingdom of brass, which shall bear rule over all the earth.
But how can Greece bear rule over the whole earth being spoken about, the Mediterranean Sea Region when they never conquered the whole earth being spoken about, as Rome did? This bothered me a bit in the past, but I just thought it proved the whole world never gets conquered by this end tie beast, but alas, it show the last beast who is ONE MAN, has ties to both Greece and Rome, he is born in Greece as we see that Daniel 8:9 mandates, and he comes to political power in the E.U. as Dan. 7:7-8 mandates. So, the way Dan. 2:39 is fulfilled is a man born in Greece (of Assyrian blood) arises to power as the E.U. President and he is the Little Horn tat goes forth conquering in Dan. 11:40-43, who then dies in vs. 45. Since when has the RCC or Pope fought wars? This last beast fulfills Dan. 2:39 by doing the exact same thing Rome did, he conquers the whole Mediterranean Sea Region.
When we look at the European Neighborhood Policy, where the E.U. has 7 year agreements with Israel and every nation on the Mediterranean Sea Region, we see who the Beast is the E.U. who conquers Israel and THE MANY seen in Dan. 8:25 and Dan. 9:27, but we see the actual wars in Dan. 11:40-43.
We know he attacks Turkey because of Dan. 8:9, he conquers to the East (Seleucus/Turkey) and to the South (Ptolemy/Egypt). Then in Dan. 11:40-43 we get a play be play where we see he conquers MANY COUNTRIES to get at Israel, then he conquers the whole North Africa coastline, he is however not allowed to conquer Edom, Moab and Ammon (where Israel flees unto in Jordan).
This is all he conquers, he dies in verse 45, NOWHERE do we see that he conquers the entire world, that us just a myth, and bad interpretation of prophecy. The 7 Heads and 10 Horns only match the Mediterranean Sea Region area. So, we agree, it is not Antiochus, but he was the archetype. And Greece has to have a man in their lineage, who actually conquers the whole region being spoken about.
Agreed, but it can only be ONE MAN, who rules over Israel for 1260 days brother.
No, the antichrist power was here even back then, but now we have a entity that is doing the work of satan.
1 John 2:18
Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
Is this what the Calvinist believe? Do you have some links or description to give context, I basically have gone over the work of Calvin himself, as part of the Reformers, so wondering what they believe.
it is not 'one man' it is led by a man and what religious power has come out from the Roman Empire and risen up to a worldwide entity and has a man as its head. Need to discern as this is prophecy is right in from of our eyes..
Here are key points of arguments against Antiochus N Epiphanes as the Little Horn power and the meaning itself which is very good in depth explanation in the "Selected Studies on Prophetic Interpretation" by Professor William H. Shea. https://www.adventistbiblicalresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/selected_studies_on_prophetic1.pdf
Is the word "horn" used to denote a king or a kingdom in the book of Daniel?
Dan 7:24. The ten horns are ten kings who shall arise from this kingdom. And another shall arise after them; he shall be different from the first ones and shall subdue three kings.
The ten horns are not just kings but are smaller kings to the previous four kingdoms in Dan 7:17. Those great beasts, which are four are four kings who arise out of the earth. Fx. Babylon, Medo-Persian, Greece and Rome.
Dan 2:37.38. You O king – are the head of gold. (King Nebuchadnezzar of Babylon).
Dan 2:39. But after you shall arise another kingdom. (Medo-Persian).
Dan 2:40. Fourth kingdom.
Dan 2:41. Feet and toes. The kingdom shall be divided.
Dan 2:44. And in the days of these kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom – it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms.
Dan 8:20. The ram which you saw, having the two horns – they are the kings of Media and Persia.
Dan 8:22. As for the broken horn and the four that stood up in its place, four kingdoms shall arise out of that nation, but not with its power.
Dan 8:23. And in the latter time of their (four horns) kingdom – – – a king shall arise. (Little horn).
Conclusion
Horns, kings and kingdoms can be used to mean the same in the book of Daniel. So the little horn is a kingdom in the book of Daniel. The papacy is both a political and a religious kingdom, which makes it different. Antiochus IV was only one king and not a kingdom. He was one of the twenty rulers of the Seleucid dynasty ruling that kingdom.
The greatness of the little horn.
Dan 8:4. The Persian ram magnified himself.
Dan 8:8. The Grecian goat magnified himself. Exceedingly.
Dan 8:9.11. The little horn magnified himself exceedingly in different directions. Toward the south, toward the east, and towards the glorious land. He even exalted himself as high as the Prince of the Host.
Antiochus IV should have exceeded the Persian and Greek Empires in greatness. This is not the case, since he ruled only one portion of the Grecian Empire with but little success.
"To the glorious land." Antiochus IV is noted in 1 Maccabees 1-6 as the Seleucid ruler who desecrated the temple and persecuted the Jews. This did not occur because of any conquest of his own, but because Antiochus III had already taken Palestine away from the Ptolemies in 198 B.C.
Dan 8:11. He even exalted himself as high as the Prince of Host; and by him the daily were taken away, and the place of His sanctuary was cast down.
Antiochus IV took away the daily. But it does not fit in with Antiochus IV that he cast the sanctuary to the ground.
Mákon in Hebrew is used seven times for the place of God´s dwelling place in heaven, six times for the place of His earthly dwelling, and twice for the place of His throne in a metaphorical sense.
The Romans cast the sanctuary down to the ground in A.D. 70. But Antiochus IV never did anything to the temple which would qualify as "casting down it´s mákon," or "place." Desecrate it he did; but, as far as is known, he did not damage it architecture in any significant way.
Dan 8:23. And in the latter time of their kingdom, when the transgressors have reached their fullness, a king shall arise – – -.
The Seleucid dynasty consisted of a line of more than 20 kings who ruled from 311 to 65 B.C. Antiochus IV was the eight in line, and he ruled from 175 to 164/63 B.C. Since more than a dozen Seleucids ruled after him and fewer than a dozen ruled before him, he can hardly be said to have arisen "at the latter time of their kingdom."
Dan 8:19. And he said, "Look, I am making known to you what shall happen in the latter time of the indignation; for at the appointed time of the end shall be.
When is the appointed time of the end?
Daniel´s time prophecies had to extend to the time of the Messiah in the first century. Dan 9:24-27. The time of the end could only arrive after the fulfilment of this prophecy. Therefore, Antiochus IV who died in 164/3 B.C. cannot be placed at the time of the end because he lived before the Messiah came to this earth.
The nature of the "end of the little horn." Dan 8:25. He (little horn) shall be broken but by no human hands.
This sentence is similar to the one in Dan 11:45 he shall come to his end, with no one to help him. The little horn shall come to its end, not by human hands but by God. Dan 7:9-11. The end of the little horn came about by a decision from God in the heavenly court. Antiochus IV did not fulfil this prediction, because he died of natural causes and not in battle.
Origin of the little horn. Did it come from the four horns of the Grecian Empire after Alexander or did it come from the four winds of heaven?
Dan 8:8.9. Therefore, the male goat grew very great; but when he became strong the large horn was broken, and in place of it there came four notable conspicuous horns towards the four winds of heaven. Out of one of them came a little horn.
What does the plural word "them" refer to?
Does it refer to four winds or four horns?
The word for "them" in the Hebrew is "hem" and is masculine. The antecedent is "winds" in verse 8 and not horns, since "winds" may be either masculine or feminine, but "horns" only feminine.
The gender of the first two elements in verse 9 (one/them) lines up perfectly with the gender of the last two elements at the end of the verse 8 (winds/heaven). The antecedent of "them" in the phrase "from them" is neither winds nor horns but heavens. Therefore, the little horn comes from the four winds of heaven and not from the four horns.'
I have seen how many people dont understand the 'little horn' in Daniel 8 and how it is the same as in Daniel 7, but the little horn of Daniel 8 represents the Roman Empire as a whole, while the little horn of Daniel 7 represents the Roman Empire only under one phase, the whole empire being represented by the fourth beast, of which the little horn was only a part, so kind of confusing to say the least.
Is the word "horn" used to denote a king or a kingdom in the book of Daniel?
Dan 7:24. The ten horns are ten kings who shall arise from this kingdom. And another shall arise after them; he shall be different from the first ones and shall subdue three kings.
The ten horns are not just kings but are smaller kings to the previous four kingdoms in Dan 7:17. Those great beasts, which are four are four kings who arise out of the earth. Fx. Babylon, Medo-Persian, Greece and Rome.
Dan 2:37.38. You O king – are the head of gold. (King Nebuchadnezzar of Babylon).
Dan 2:39. But after you shall arise another kingdom. (Medo-Persian).
Dan 2:40. Fourth kingdom.
Dan 2:41. Feet and toes. The kingdom shall be divided.
Dan 2:44. And in the days of these kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom – it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms.
Dan 8:20. The ram which you saw, having the two horns – they are the kings of Media and Persia.
Dan 8:22. As for the broken horn and the four that stood up in its place, four kingdoms shall arise out of that nation, but not with its power.
Dan 8:23. And in the latter time of their (four horns) kingdom – – – a king shall arise. (Little horn).
Conclusion
Horns, kings and kingdoms can be used to mean the same in the book of Daniel. So the little horn is a kingdom in the book of Daniel. The papacy is both a political and a religious kingdom, which makes it different. Antiochus IV was only one king and not a kingdom. He was one of the twenty rulers of the Seleucid dynasty ruling that kingdom.
The greatness of the little horn.
Dan 8:4. The Persian ram magnified himself.
Dan 8:8. The Grecian goat magnified himself. Exceedingly.
Dan 8:9.11. The little horn magnified himself exceedingly in different directions. Toward the south, toward the east, and towards the glorious land. He even exalted himself as high as the Prince of the Host.
Antiochus IV should have exceeded the Persian and Greek Empires in greatness. This is not the case, since he ruled only one portion of the Grecian Empire with but little success.
"To the glorious land." Antiochus IV is noted in 1 Maccabees 1-6 as the Seleucid ruler who desecrated the temple and persecuted the Jews. This did not occur because of any conquest of his own, but because Antiochus III had already taken Palestine away from the Ptolemies in 198 B.C.
Dan 8:11. He even exalted himself as high as the Prince of Host; and by him the daily were taken away, and the place of His sanctuary was cast down.
Antiochus IV took away the daily. But it does not fit in with Antiochus IV that he cast the sanctuary to the ground.
Mákon in Hebrew is used seven times for the place of God´s dwelling place in heaven, six times for the place of His earthly dwelling, and twice for the place of His throne in a metaphorical sense.
The Romans cast the sanctuary down to the ground in A.D. 70. But Antiochus IV never did anything to the temple which would qualify as "casting down it´s mákon," or "place." Desecrate it he did; but, as far as is known, he did not damage it architecture in any significant way.
Dan 8:23. And in the latter time of their kingdom, when the transgressors have reached their fullness, a king shall arise – – -.
The Seleucid dynasty consisted of a line of more than 20 kings who ruled from 311 to 65 B.C. Antiochus IV was the eight in line, and he ruled from 175 to 164/63 B.C. Since more than a dozen Seleucids ruled after him and fewer than a dozen ruled before him, he can hardly be said to have arisen "at the latter time of their kingdom."
Dan 8:19. And he said, "Look, I am making known to you what shall happen in the latter time of the indignation; for at the appointed time of the end shall be.
When is the appointed time of the end?
Daniel´s time prophecies had to extend to the time of the Messiah in the first century. Dan 9:24-27. The time of the end could only arrive after the fulfilment of this prophecy. Therefore, Antiochus IV who died in 164/3 B.C. cannot be placed at the time of the end because he lived before the Messiah came to this earth.
The nature of the "end of the little horn." Dan 8:25. He (little horn) shall be broken but by no human hands.
This sentence is similar to the one in Dan 11:45 he shall come to his end, with no one to help him. The little horn shall come to its end, not by human hands but by God. Dan 7:9-11. The end of the little horn came about by a decision from God in the heavenly court. Antiochus IV did not fulfil this prediction, because he died of natural causes and not in battle.
Origin of the little horn. Did it come from the four horns of the Grecian Empire after Alexander or did it come from the four winds of heaven?
Dan 8:8.9. Therefore, the male goat grew very great; but when he became strong the large horn was broken, and in place of it there came four notable conspicuous horns towards the four winds of heaven. Out of one of them came a little horn.
What does the plural word "them" refer to?
Does it refer to four winds or four horns?
The word for "them" in the Hebrew is "hem" and is masculine. The antecedent is "winds" in verse 8 and not horns, since "winds" may be either masculine or feminine, but "horns" only feminine.
The gender of the first two elements in verse 9 (one/them) lines up perfectly with the gender of the last two elements at the end of the verse 8 (winds/heaven). The antecedent of "them" in the phrase "from them" is neither winds nor horns but heavens. Therefore, the little horn comes from the four winds of heaven and not from the four horns.'
I have seen how many people dont understand the 'little horn' in Daniel 8 and how it is the same as in Daniel 7, but the little horn of Daniel 8 represents the Roman Empire as a whole, while the little horn of Daniel 7 represents the Roman Empire only under one phase, the whole empire being represented by the fourth beast, of which the little horn was only a part, so kind of confusing to say the least.
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