Was Jesus 'mortal' or 'immortal' ?

[Fred J]

'And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the FATHER,) full of grace and truth.' (John 1:14)

'And also written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.' (1 Corinthians 15:45)

'The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from Heaven.' (1 Corinthians 15:47)


How can we witness to others using the sound doctrine knowledge of the Holy Bible, if such a question arise ?

 

[Fred J]

Jesus was born a human just like us and lived like we did, from dawn to duck.

But, He lived in Israel and was under the Law and the Prophets then.

And, grew up from the up bringing of a Jewish parent and society. as well.

 

[Phil .]

How can we witness to others using the sound doctrine knowledge of the Holy Bible, if such a question arise ?

As you would yourself, without knowledge of other.

 

[Pearl]

I answer to the question at the top of the thread, I would say that in his human form he was mortal - he could die, which he did - and in his resurrected form he is immortal.

 

[Lambano]

3 For I handed down to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 and that He was buried, and that He was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures....42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown a perishable (mortal) body, it is raised an imperishable (immortal) body; 43 it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power; 44 it is sown a ψυχικόν body, it is raised a πνευματικόν body. If there is a ψυχικόν body, there is also a πνευματικόν body. (See 1 Corinthians chapter 15)

ψυχικόν: Physical, natural; governed by or powered by the Soul
πνευματικόν: Spiritual; governed by or powered by the Spirit

So, the question behind the question is, what ARE we? What defines who we are? (And specifically, what defines who Jesus is? Pre-incarnation, incarnate, post-resurrection, and post ascension?) Since bodies seem to be replaceable, it seems we're more than "our bodies, our selves". And that brings into play these words like "soul", and "spirit" which themselves are not well-defined. And begs the question as to whether souls and spirits are immortal. It's not a simple question.

But there's this...

13 I direct you in the presence of God, who gives life to all things, and of Christ Jesus, who testified the good confession before Pontius Pilate,14 that you keep the commandment without fault or reproach until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ, 15 which He will bring about at the proper time—He who is the blessed and only Sovereign, the King of kings and Lord of lords, 16 who alone possesses immortality and dwells in unapproachable light, whom no one has seen or can see. To Him be honor and eternal dominion! Amen. (1 Timothy 6:13-16)

And THAT runs perilously close to the subject we're not allowed to discuss on this board.

 

[Fred J]

As you would yourself, without knowledge of other.

?

 

[Fred J]

I answer to the question at the top of the thread, I would say that in his human form he was mortal - he could die, which he did - and in his resurrected form he is immortal.

If He was mortal in His human form, He would have changed to an immortal body upon resurrection, or before ascension.

For there's no scripture account of that happening, but only account of the dead saint who will rise, and with the living, in Christ.

Before their ascension to meet the Lord in the cloud, they will be changed from the mortal body to the immortal body.

 

[Phil .]

?

Without the truth of yourself, what exactly are you sharing and with whom?

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Jesus was born a human just like us and lived like we did, from dawn to duck.

But, He lived in Israel and was under the Law and the Prophets then.

And, grew up from the up bringing of a Jewish parent and society. as well.

6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:

8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:

10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;

11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

 

[O'Darby]

And THAT runs perilously close to the subject we're not allowed to discuss on this board.

What is it? Another poster had warned me to be careful about discussing the Trinity, but I didn't see anything in the rules. Can you clarify what it is and what the scope of the prohibition is, especially since I've already at least alluded to the Trinity in several posts?

 

[Phil .]

What is it? Another poster had warned me to be careful about discussing the Trinity, but I didn't see anything in the rules. Can you clarify what it is and what the scope of the prohibition is, especially since I've already at least alluded to the Trinity in several posts?

It seems quite odd that the trinity can’t be discussed in a Christian forum. Can you link or paste where this is said?

 

[O'Darby]

It seems quite odd that the trinity can’t be discussed in a Christian forum. Can you link or paste where this is said?

I was ASKING @Lambano what the forbidden topic is. Someone had alerted me the Trinity was a touchy subject here, but I don't know if it is the forbidden topic to which Lambano was referring.

 

[Pearl]

It seems quite odd that the trinity can’t be discussed in a Christian forum. Can you link or paste where this is said?

Discussions about 'that subject' get quite heated and the site, in it's statement of faith, quite clearly states belief in the t.....y. So to discuss it is against the rules.

Christianity Board Statement of Faith

Christianity Board Statement of Faith Christianity Board (CyB) acknowledges that the nature of a forum community dictates that its members will hold a diverse range of beliefs within the Christian faith. In addition to this, we recognize that all Christians are a work in progress (Ephesians...

www.christianityboard.com

Statement on the Trinity

Ladies and gents, you should know by now that I strive to provide a graceful and understanding community as well all grow towards a maturing faith. I hope that we communicate that we understand that people are at different levels with the work of God ongoing in all of our lives. As Paul said so...

www.christianityboard.com

 

[Phil .]

I was ASKING @Lambano what the forbidden topic is. Someone had alerted me the Trinity was a touchy subject here, but I don't know if it is the forbidden topic to which Lambano was referring.

For sure. Curious about this as well and wondering where that might be stated, if stated, so I could read it. Maybe @Lambano will site a reference or share.

Discussions about 'that subject' get quite heated and the site, in it's statement of faith, quite clearly states belief in the t.....y. So to discuss it is against the rules.

The trinity isn’t a subject, and isn’t a belief. Though the trinity is not specifically mentioned in the Bible, there are countless pointings, and what could be more clarifying than an earnest discussion?

But I digress, as the jury is still out.

 

[O'Darby]

Discussions about 'that subject' get quite heated and the site, in it's statement of faith, quite clearly states belief in the t.....y. So to discuss it is against the rules.

Christianity Board Statement of Faith

Christianity Board Statement of Faith Christianity Board (CyB) acknowledges that the nature of a forum community dictates that its members will hold a diverse range of beliefs within the Christian faith. In addition to this, we recognize that all Christians are a work in progress (Ephesians...

www.christianityboard.com

Statement on the Trinity

Ladies and gents, you should know by now that I strive to provide a graceful and understanding community as well all grow towards a maturing faith. I hope that we communicate that we understand that people are at different levels with the work of God ongoing in all of our lives. As Paul said so...

www.christianityboard.com

Well, OK, but the "Statement On the Trinity" predates the new ownership of the site by eight years, the Staff Member who wrote it hasn't been seen in almost eight months, and the "Statement" itself generated a fair amount of discussion about the Trinity! Moreover, the "Statement" seems pretty flexible for a prohibition - "Misunderstanding and legitimate questions about the Trinity are welcome" and posts against the Trinity will be "evaluated on a case-by-case basis" and possibly relegated to the Unorthodox forum. It appears that what's really being prohibited are flat assertions against Trinitarian doctrine as though it were false (e.g., JW-type arguments). Well, whatever - I try to tread lightly where the Trinity is concerned because I've studied the doctrine and its history pretty extensively and can see all sides.

 

[Phil .]

It’s only beliefs, ‘what I knows & understands’ which is ever triggered and defended. The Trinity is certainly in no need of defense.

 

[Pearl]

Well, OK, but the "Statement On the Trinity" predates the new ownership of the site by eight years, the Staff Member who wrote it hasn't been seen in almost eight months, and the "Statement" itself generated a fair amount of discussion about the Trinity! Moreover, the "Statement" seems pretty flexible for a prohibition - "Misunderstanding and legitimate questions about the Trinity are welcome" and posts against the Trinity will be "evaluated on a case-by-case basis" and possibly relegated to the Unorthodox forum. It appears that what's really being prohibited are flat assertions against Trinitarian doctrine as though it were false (e.g., JW-type arguments). Well, whatever - I try to tread lightly where the Trinity is concerned because I've studied the doctrine and its history pretty extensively and can see all sides.

Talk to the admins about it. I didn't make the rules. But things really got very nasty indeed.

 

[O'Darby]

Talk to the admins about it. I didn't make the rules. But things really got very nasty indeed.

Oh, I have no problem with it. In my experience, the Trinity, Universalism, Once Saved Always Saved, LBGTQ and about 40 other issues are guaranteed to bring out the worst. I do always find the notion of a forum Statement of Faith slightly comical, but whatever.

 

[Pearl]

Oh, I have no problem with it. In my experience, the Trinity, Universalism, Once Saved Always Saved, LBGTQ and about 40 other issues are guaranteed to bring out the worst. I do always find the notion of a forum Statement of Faith slightly comical, but whatever.

Well they have a statement of faith because it is basically a Christian forum and the statement of faith is what all true Christians - i.e. born again believers - believe. As is obvious not all the members of this forum are born again believers though.

 

[O'Darby]

Well they have a statement of faith because it is basically a Christian forum and the statement of faith is what all true Christians - i.e. born again believers - believe. As is obvious not all the members of this forum are born again believers though.

Ah, yes, True Christians! Are there any? Do we identify them by whether they ascribe to an internet Statement of Faith?

Not to be picky, but there are statements in the forum Statement of Faith that neither the Orthodox nor the Catholics would agree with; they comprise by far the largest segment of ostensible Christendom. ("Christians are justified by grace from God through Jesus alone. Eternal life begins the moment in which one believes and confesses Jesus Christ into his or her life by faith." I no longer even believe that.)

Is it "obvious" that not all forum members are born-again believers? More to the point, is it "obvious" which members are? I mentioned elsewhere that I'm accustomed be being called a "Fundie" and "Not a Christian at all," sometimes on the same forum.

So I'm somewhat skeptical of the All True Christians argument (or fallacy, as the case may be - see the following discussion of the No True Scotsman fallacy, No True Scotsman Fallacy | Definition & Examples).

I just came from another forum where no one who said he or she was a Christian could be challenged, even if they didn't think Jesus actually existed or conceived of Him as some sort of New Age Guru of Love. It was kind of weird, but a forum Statement of Faith strikes me as a little odd, too.

No big deal.