ChristisGod
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its no more a head scratcher than the trinity or any other miracle from God which man/science is incapable of explaining.
Was Jesus 'mortal' or 'immortal' ?
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Witness the TRUTH of Gods word…
TO the willing to Hear.
Not willing? Brush the dust off your feet and move on.
There are a FEW online testimonies of Preachers with large congregations who have admitted, they have NEVER believed!
And more shocking…some of the congregates want the Preacher to Continue being their Pastor!
There are a lot of modern churches that fill their pews by “preaching” what the congregates “WANT” to hear, so “THEY” feel good about themselves.
It’s astounding!
Glory to God,
Taken
One of my favorite systematic theologies is the MASSIVE Classic Christianity by the late Thomas C. Oden, Amazon.com. He was a proponent of "paleo-orthodoxy," basically a Protestant version of real Orthodoxy that relies extensively on the early church fathers and their writings. Anyway, he urges readers to read with a skeptical eyebrow raised and to be prepared occasionally to laugh at the inherent absurdity of humans trying to connect all the dots in the many mysteries of the transcendent God. Too many Christians - in my opinion, of course - not only don't see the absurdity but are highly offended (on God's behalf, of course!) if you do.its no more a head scratcher than the trinity or any other miracle from God which man/science is incapable of explaining.
WalterandDebbie
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- Dec 14, 2009
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Hello Fred J, In answer to the OP/Title we would say both, Clearly, when we compare this with the New Testament, we find several hints right in Genesis 1:1 of the pre-existence of Jesus Christ, the Logos, the "Son of God."
Bible Gateway passage: John 1:1-18, John 8:58, 1 Timothy 2:5 - King James Version
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. In him was life; and the life was the light of men. And the light shineth in darkness; and...
Love, Walter And Debbie
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What a pleasant reply, hi there folks, peace be with you in Jesus name.Hello Fred J, In answer to the OP/Title we would say both, Clearly, when we compare this with the New Testament, we find several hints right in Genesis 1:1 of the pre-existence of Jesus Christ, the Logos, the "Son of God."
Bible Gateway passage: John 1:1-18, John 8:58, 1 Timothy 2:5 - King James Version
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. In him was life; and the life was the light of men. And the light shineth in darkness; and...www.biblegateway.com
Love, Walter And Debbie
The answer cannot be both but rather one, 'mortal' or 'immortal'.
Basically the question is, why are we 'mortal, just because we're humans ?
So, Jesus became a human, therefore 'mortal' too?
In other words, 'corruption' or 'incorruption'?
I will speak in my own words…
I will not do an others works to verify every word with Scripture.
God Himself IS SPIRIT, without beginning, without ending. God HAS “spirits” He gives to BE WITH men according to HIS desire, HIS order, HIS way.
Mortal means, SUBJECT to DEATH.
What IS “IN” Gods BEING, “IS” God.
What COMES FORTH out from “IN” God, “IS” God, and concurrently “REMAINS IN GOD”.
Gods Power is SUPREME.
No other created things HAVE POWER, less it is given them FROM God.
When Gods WORD comes forth out from Gods Mouth, His WORD remains IN God.
When God Decides, Chooses, to LABEL Himself with Multiple Names, Multiple Descriptions and Reveals those Names and Descriptions….it is FOR manKinds benefit.
It is WISDOM unto manKIND, to recognize, the purpose and intent of Gods Multiple Labels….
God IS INVISIBLE. No man CAN Hear or See God “AS HE IS”…..which appears as a conundrum, a dilemma….BUT YET….
God has revealed, an exponential amount of Knowledge About Him….and LABELS that which REVEAL…..how and when HE accomplishes HIS WILL.
PARALLELS of mankind to God…
Man has multiple Names, multiple Descriptions…..and those Names and Descriptions REVEAL which other persons, those names and descriptions “affect” “personally” another.
For example…. A man can be called: dad, daddy, a father, Mister, Samuel, Bubba, employer, employee, neighbor, brother, son, cousin, friend, acquaintance , president, CEO, doctor, teacher, preacher, farmer, patron, volunteer, sick, criminal, healthy, whole, converted, believer, liar, cheater…….on and on….
Yet …
those names and descriptions DO NOT mean every other person can CALL him those things, or that those names and descriptions have ANY connection or effect on every other person.
God, regardless by WHAT name or description He IS CALLED…. God IS “immortal”, IS without subject to DEATH.
JESUS is EXPRESSLY the Name (above all Names) God APPOINTED to “His Word”, “Son of man”, “His Son”.
CHRIST is EXPRESSLY the Descriptive Title Given to “Gods Power” and “Gods Wisdom” and “Gods Seed” and “Gods Word”.
NOW….WHAT exactly came forth out from God?
His POWER…(Spirit) Gen 1:2
His WORD….(God said) Gen 1:3
AND….WHAT exactly did Gods power and word DO?
Gen 1:1 (create, and the list thereof following)
AND …WHAT exactly did God call His ‘making’ of His “creations”?
Gen 1:31 ….”very good”.
* What was Gods WORD and POWER …. yesterday?
* What is Gods WORD and POWER….
today?
* What is Gods WORD and POWER…
Forever?
??? ALWAYS the SAME, without beginning, without ending. Heb 13:8. Jesus Christ.
IS, WAS Jesus, Created or Made by the will or power of the “created”? No.
IS, WAS Jesus, Always the Word of God, Always the Power of God EVER subject to Death? No.
John 1:
[13] Which were born,
DID God have a “BABY”? No.
God SENT forth OUT OF HIS MOUTH, His WORD; (Isa 55:11)
And WHERE He sent His WORD was to a VIRGIN (undefiled) womb, of a female betrothed to a man of the “House of David”….
Uh….King David….the same whom God Appointed Kingship over Jerusalem, with the caveat, THAT THRONE, would be “FOREVER ETERNAL” (1 Chron 17:12)
He who sits on that “ETERNAL” throne….
God Himself, shall BE … his “FATHER”….abd the KING, Gods Son, as God Declared.
(1 Chron 17:12)
Presently….there is no VISIBLE Throne in Jerusalem….but again what IS, is not always SEEN by the eyes of manKIND.
God also, ESTABLISHED…God would be “A” father to JESUS (Gods Word, Power, Wisdom, Seed)… and JESUS would be to God, “a” Son …. WHEN JESUS would come forth out from God IN Heaven and be SENT to EARTH.
Heb 1:
[5] For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?
John 8:
[42] Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.
John 16:
[27] For the Father himself loveth you, because ye have loved me, and have believed thatI came out from God.
so…did JESUS, “sacrifice” His Spirit, His Soul unto DEATH for atonement and sin of mankind/
No… Jesus SACRIFICED….a BODY God prepared and the BLOOD within that BODY that God prepared….to be GIVEN unto DEATH for the Offering of Forgiveness and Salvation of ANY MAN in the WHOLE WORLD, willing to accept and TAKE Gods Offering.
Heb 10:
[5] Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:
John 6:
[51] I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.
Matt 22:
[22] But Jesus answered and said, Ye know not what ye ask. Are ye able to drink of the cup that I shall drink of, and to be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with? They say unto him, We are able.
Every man can trust to believe the Word of God, open their own mouth and declare their belief in their heart….and receive Gods promise…or not.
Yes Jesus was always wholly, whole and holy immortal….without fault, blame, sin.
Belief is every individuals own freewill.
Glory to God,
Taken
Jesus did not BECOME Human, any more than Humans BECOME God.
Gods POWER ALLOWS for God to APPEAR IN the LIKENESS…..as a bush, a dove, a MAN…
Gods created angel spirits, AS WELL have the POWER given them from God to appear in the LIKENESS …. As a man.
Men ARE NOT spirits. They have the “power” to APPEAR as what they are NOT, via “surgeries, make-up, clothing, wigs, etc.”
Heb 13:
[2] Be not forgetful to entertain strangers: for thereby some have entertained angels unawares.
Glory to God,
Taken
Bob Estey
Well-Known Member
@Fred J,
Jesus by the flesh, was mortal.
What was inside Him, was the life giving spirit of Yahava which Jesus commended his spirit to him “in that the Father would come through?” Inside of Yeshua was also the Word of God, which was incased in the flesh which wrapped itself around “the soul called the Word of God” in a sense to me. Upon death, it was a payment for sin, which Jesus willingly gave up his life on behalf of all mankind, and the love for his Father and his will, and ways. To me, I believe that Jesus, the Word of God, having paid for sin and fulfilling the Law of Yahava, earned him the reason to be glorified however due to the sin payment, he traveled through Paradise and cross the chasm, to the prisoners who died in Noah’s age. After three days, Yahava kept his promise and rose the Son of God up from the dead, who will end up being revealed as the LORD GOD ALMIGHTY.
Jesus, by the flesh, was mortal. Within, Immortal, and I believe because of Him, all souls are immortal, and all will be resurrected, be it damnation, or be it life.
A key thing to realize is that the Word of God, came by the shadow of the Holy Spirit, by and through the line of David through Mary.
The Word of God left its former place, from Heaven to Earth. Therefore there is a difference between mortal, and perhaps and immortal is somewhat explained from my own perspective.
Which I also could be wrong, just desired to share.
Jesus by the flesh, was mortal.
What was inside Him, was the life giving spirit of Yahava which Jesus commended his spirit to him “in that the Father would come through?” Inside of Yeshua was also the Word of God, which was incased in the flesh which wrapped itself around “the soul called the Word of God” in a sense to me. Upon death, it was a payment for sin, which Jesus willingly gave up his life on behalf of all mankind, and the love for his Father and his will, and ways. To me, I believe that Jesus, the Word of God, having paid for sin and fulfilling the Law of Yahava, earned him the reason to be glorified however due to the sin payment, he traveled through Paradise and cross the chasm, to the prisoners who died in Noah’s age. After three days, Yahava kept his promise and rose the Son of God up from the dead, who will end up being revealed as the LORD GOD ALMIGHTY.
Jesus, by the flesh, was mortal. Within, Immortal, and I believe because of Him, all souls are immortal, and all will be resurrected, be it damnation, or be it life.
A key thing to realize is that the Word of God, came by the shadow of the Holy Spirit, by and through the line of David through Mary.
The Word of God left its former place, from Heaven to Earth. Therefore there is a difference between mortal, and perhaps and immortal is somewhat explained from my own perspective.
Which I also could be wrong, just desired to share.
Well, that quote has nothing to do with Jesus without beginning or without ending.
John 1:1, describes the Word had a 'beginning'.
Revelation 1:8, Jesus claim He is the 'beginning' and the 'ending'.
The beginning with all creation, as He is the 'firstborn' of or over all creation, including man made in the image of GOD and Son. And, the ending of all of them, because He have become the firstborn from the dead among many with Him a new creation. (Colossians 1:18)
If any were to say He have no beginning, i want to ask, how come he have an ending, if He is eternal ?
Wasn't there a baby conceived by Mary and was covered by the Holy Spirit ? Didn't Angel Gabriel prophesy to Mary who the baby was ?
'the Son of the MOST HIGH.'
And, since there no marriage between man and woman in Heaven, apparently GOD have no baby.
But, GOD have all HIS creation and heir, whereby, the one and only Son, HE personally created, is the 'firstborn' of and over all creation.
GOD also able to create a flesh in the womb of a virgin here on earth. (Psalms ch. 139)
i believe you were referring to 'blameless'.
Yet. He died on the Cross and buried with the rest of the dead.
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i believe Taken, prior you've spoken more than enough in your reply., There's no need to quote from what has been posted to others, tq
Sure, thanks for sharing, appreciate it, you've been fair in your sharing..
Usually, 'mortal' body, is equivalent to 'corruptible' and 'perishable' body.
Mortal - Immortal
Corruptible - Incorruptible
Perishable - Imperishable
If Jesus' body is defiled since a 'mortal', how can He be a perfect sacrifice for the sins of this world ?,
Hey Fred, thanks for considering.
While our flesh sometimes by our own choices ruins and breaks down, it’s always been destined to perish since mankind (Adam and Eve), decided to disobey and make their own choice to eat the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil.
Mortal means subject to death.
Jesus’s subjected himself unto death.
Philippians
8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. 8 And being found in human form, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross.
Jesus was mortal. He died. Yahava rose him up three days later as promised. Jesus promised all to raise faithful and faithless people in resurrection of life or damnation.
I don’t believe the LORD desire for any to perish but all to come to repentance. That is why to me in the end all are raised from the dead, Be them going into the Heavenly Kingdom or being in the outside of it. He died and God raised him up again.
That’s the picture.
Yeshua was able to complete a contract which Yahava has made with himself with Israel. The body of Jesus, was given up to die, therefore mortal. When the body of Jesus is raised again it’s not the blood making him alive. It’s the life giving Spirit of God.
Maybe this could help with an idea.
Adam and Eve made alive: died (spiritually).
Jesus is sent, lives a life and overcome spiritual death, and is raised from the dead. (Spiritually made alive by merit of Christ.)
Just wanted to share thank you.
The Word of God was ALWAYS IN God.
The Angels Estate (Heaven) had a beginning..
The Angels had a beginning.
The Earth (Estate of plants, animals, manKind had a beginning).
Plants, animals, manKind had a beginning.
Their beginning occurred when Gods Word was revealed coming forth out from God and Speaking.
Gods Word came forth out of His mouth numerous times to cause a beginning for things, aforementioned.
The SECRET things of God, belong to God, until such time He reveals them TO manKIND, and then that Knowledge belongs to ManKIND also.
The Word of God, did not BEGIN in the New Testament. The knowledge of the NAME of the Word of God was revealed.
It’s a marvel thing to speak to the little ignorant child and the mature wise adult with one speech, that either can comprehend.
The parent always precedes the child, YET an absent/busy parent may Designate, Decree, Appoint one child in Charge over another child. It doesn’t mean, the child IS the Parent or the Parent doesn’t exist.
Scripturally God routinely…APPOINTED men IN agreement with God, to govern over men IN agreement with God, and Gods chosen governor. For centuries, that system prevailed, sometimes failed, and became a routine failure; WHEN the Governors and the Governed became at odds of one with the other.
That ^^ Caused a Dilemma IN Gods “WILL”
So what DOES a Parent (God) Do when the Governors fail, or the Governed become stiffnecked, rebellious toward the governor?
Scripture tells us…
Eph 1:
[9] Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:
[10] That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:
What IS “born”? Is it not Something Living coming forth out from something Living?
What IS “first”? Is it not Something that occurs IN an ORDER?
In the BeGINNING “OF CREATION”…of the Heavens, of the Earth, of the Plants, of the animals, of the Stars, moon, earth, and ManKIND….
WHAT FIRST came forth OUT from God to MAKE such thing EXIST?
Scripture tells us…
What God DID
That What God DID had a beginning.
What Gods Spirit was DOING
What Gods Word DID.
Gen 1
[1] In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
[2] And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
[3] And God said
Gen 1:3 reveals the FIrST time manKIND is notified of Gods Word coming forth out of His Mouth.
Numerous times throughout the OT, Gods Word is Given to men. Men experience Visions, of Gods Servants (holy angels), telling men things on behalf of God. even men inquired of what a man called the Angel of the LORD, and asked his NAME…
And the VISION replied…it is SECRET…
Judg 13:18)
(Again, Gods Secrets belong to God until He reveals the Secret)
Deut 29:29
In the Beginning of a NEW “BETTER TESTAMENT” “Beginning Being the “first time a BETTER TESTAMENT was Offered “manKIND”….
A better Testament Given by, through, of…the ONE God SENT…
(Remembering God Purposed IN Himself, to accomplish what man Failed to accomplish).
What IN Heaven came FORTH out from God, and was SENT to Earth to Accomplish God’s WILL? Gods OWN WORD!
If Gods OWN Word IS NOT God, WHO is it?
Did your parent give YOU a NAME? Perhaps Fred?
Did YOU give your own Word a NAME for purposes of this Forum?
Fred J ?
Did God give His own Word a NAME, TITLES, Descriptions, for purposes of WHEN He would SEND His word TO EARTH….in the LIKENESS as an earthly man, IN a body God Prepared, having the EXPRESS IMAGE of God, to Accomplish Gods WILL, with restrictions? Yes.
Isa 55:
[11] So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.
Heb 10:
[5] Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but [/B]a body hast thou prepared me:[/B]
@Fred J, in the end I come to my own conclusion.
The Word of God came down from heaven born of flesh, and that flesh died. The Word of God within never died. Never experienced death, the flesh however did.
The question is then, where was the Word of God, that was named Yeshua at the time after his death, and to me he went with the thief in Paradise and then traveled to those in prison since that days of Noah and preached a message to them, not sure what it could have been mentioned.
To me Jesus lived a perfect life, died on the cross, went to hell, and then is seen being risen again overcoming all things, during his return and grabbing the bride in that day in age.
The Word of God came down from heaven born of flesh, and that flesh died. The Word of God within never died. Never experienced death, the flesh however did.
The question is then, where was the Word of God, that was named Yeshua at the time after his death, and to me he went with the thief in Paradise and then traveled to those in prison since that days of Noah and preached a message to them, not sure what it could have been mentioned.
To me Jesus lived a perfect life, died on the cross, went to hell, and then is seen being risen again overcoming all things, during his return and grabbing the bride in that day in age.
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