What about the two Witnesses ?

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101G

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On a serious note, I believe that the scriptures of Zechariah and Revelation, the scriptures concerning the Two Witnesses, are actually prophecies about the "Bible"... The Bible is the two witnesses.
Zechariah is the prophecy of the two witness. the two Olive trees. and these two trees, or witness are before God because they was ANOINTED and "SENT" from God. supportive scripture,

A. John the Baptist, John 1:6 "There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.
John 1:7 "The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe".

NOTE: John was not sent "BY" God, no, read it again. John was sent "FROM" God.

B. the Lord Jesus who is the diversity of God himself in flesh came "FROM" God. John 3:2 "The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him."

John 13:3 "Jesus knowing that the Father had given all things into his hands, and that he was come from God, and went to God".

to stand before God is to be Anointed by God. and Each had the Holy Spirit from birth.

A. John's Birth. Luke 1:15 "For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb.

B. the Lord Jesus birth. Matthew 1:20 "But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost".

Please take Note Here: only alive men can witness, or testify. dead men cannot, correct? well John the Baptist and the Lord Jesus was the ONLY TWO MEN ALIVE at that time on the earth. meaning Spiritually alive to God. they was the ONLY TWO ...... :cool:.

you can't deny it they are the two witness.

PCY
 

Helen

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e take Note Here: only alive men can witness, or testify. dead men cannot, correct? well John the Baptist and the Lord Jesus was the ONLY TWO MEN ALIVE at that time on the earth. meaning Spiritually alive to God. they was the ONLY TWO ...... :cool:.

you can't deny it they are the two witness.

Hello my friend.

As I just said above...I cannot, and haven't believe they are just two for over 50 years. The are two companies of believers.
Just as the anti-christ and false prophet are a company of people..

You mentioned..the two olive trees, all of the above a picture form.

BTW, what are they "witnessing to"?
Jesus has sat down...finished His work.

It is to Him that we bare second witness to. He has no more work to do.

This is how I see it! :)

NOT that any of us can say " Thus sayeth the Lord"
Although many that posts seem to be saying that!!! Which is silly.
This, like many other things that are discussed , is a "we will see." :D
 
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101G

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Hello my friend.

As I just said above...I cannot, and haven't believe they are just two for over 50 years. The are two companies of believers.
Just as the anti-christ and false prophet are a company of people..

You mentioned..the two olive trees, all of the above a picture form.

BTW, what are they "witnessing to"?
Jesus has sat down...finished His work.

It is to Him that we bare second witness to. He has no more work to do.

This is how I see it! :)

NOT that any of us can say " Thus sayeth the Lord"
Although many that posts seem to be saying that!!! Which is silly.
This, like many other things that are discussed , is a "we will see." :D
hi my friend BG, no it's two men. "BTW, what are they "witnessing to"?" the answer, "THE TRUTH"
 

101G

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BG, let's take God at his word, for God don't lie... right.

listen, Matthew 17:10 "And his disciples asked him, saying, Why then say the scribes that Elias must first come?

Matthew 17:11 "And Jesus answered and said unto them, Elias truly shall first come, and restore all things.

Matthew 17:12 "But I say unto you, That Elias is come already, and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they listed. Likewise shall also the Son of man suffer of them.

Matthew 17:13 "Then the disciples understood that he spake unto them of John the Baptist.

ok BG, please explain to me why the Lord Jesus said Elijah had already come?
 

Philip James

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As I just said above...I cannot, and haven't believe they are just two for over 50 years. The are two companies of believers.
Just as the anti-christ and false prophet are a company of people..

You mentioned..the two olive trees, all of the above a picture form.

Hey!
I mostly agree with you here... I think the two olive trees ARE two groups of people... I also think the two witnesses will be champions from each of those two groups that will be preaching to and converting the Jews in Jerusalem.

Peace!
 

101G

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Hey!
I mostly agree with you here... I think the two olive trees ARE two groups of people... I also think the two witnesses will be champions from each of those two groups that will be preaching to and converting the Jews in Jerusalem.

Peace!
first thanks for the response. but may I ask you a question.

When did Elijah come? please note,

Malachi 4:5 "Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD". that's scripture, and cannot be broken. now this,

Matthew 17:12 "But I say unto you, That Elias is come already, and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they listed. Likewise shall also the Son of man suffer of them.
 

Philip James

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first thanks for the response. but may I ask you a question.

When did Elijah come? please note,

Malachi 4:5 "Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD". that's scripture, and cannot be broken. now this,

Matthew 17:12 "But I say unto you, That Elias is come already, and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they listed. Likewise shall also the Son of man suffer of them.

Jesus made it clear that Elijah had come.

Peace!
 

101G

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Jesus made it clear that Elijah had come.

Peace!
Good, now one more thing,

Matthew 17:12 "But I say unto you, That Elias is come already, and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they listed. Likewise shall also the Son of man suffer of them.

Matthew 17:13 "Then the disciples understood that he spake unto them of John the Baptist.

is John the Baptist the Elijah to come IN SPIRIT and IN POWER? Yes or NO
 

Philip James

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Good, now one more thing,

Matthew 17:12 "But I say unto you, That Elias is come already, and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they listed. Likewise shall also the Son of man suffer of them.

Matthew 17:13 "Then the disciples understood that he spake unto them of John the Baptist.

is John the Baptist the Elijah to come IN SPIRIT and IN POWER? Yes or NO

What are you trying to say? Jesus made it plain that John fulfilled this prophecy about the return of Elijah
 

101G

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What are you trying to say? Jesus made it plain that John fulfilled this prophecy about the return of Elijah
Yes, and this return, it was before "the great and dreadful day of the LORD".

two things,
#1. is not John symbolic of the Elijah in Revelation 11:6 "These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will".

#2. is not "the great and dreadful day of the LORD" have already passed? if so, then these events are not future. meaning that the two witness are already come.
 
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101G

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GINOLJC, to all

The Lord Jesus and Moses.
Here are some compiled similarities between the Lord Jesus the Christ and the prophet Moses.
theses are just a few, not all the similarities

1. both have a close relationship with God. Moses a face to face Physical (human) meeting. Jesus a Spiritual Face to face. John 1:18 "No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

2. both were ordained by God to deliver his people from bondage. Moses Physical bondage, the Lord Jesus Spiritual bondage

3. both Moses and the Lord Jesus were saved from certain death when they were small children, while most other Israelite male children of the same age and place of birth were murdered.

4. both the Lord Jesus and Moses refused the possibility to become rulers in their age. Satan offered Jesus the rule over the kingdoms of this world (Matthew 4:8-9), but Jesus rejected that offer and chose to suffer and die for the sake of the people of the world. Moses acted in a similar manner; he had been raised as a son in a royal family, and he could have had a lavish lifestyle, but he chose differently. he suffered for the people sake.

5. both the Lord Jesus and Moses were "called out of Egypt".

6. both Moses and the Lord Jesus interceded for Israel, not allowing the destruction of the nation

7. both the Lord Jesus and Moses "mediated" between Israel, (now the church), and the true God.

8. both the Lord Jesus and Moses were Lawgivers. Moses the carnal Law of carved in Stone. the Lord Jesus the Spiritual Law carved in the heart.

9. both had water connections. The Nile (water) turned into blood/red. the Lord Jesus at a marriage in Cana, he turned Water into wine/red = symbolic blood

10. both died, and no man knows where their GRAVE are. Moses not in his grave, and the Lord Jesus not in his grave

11. both held the title "prophet"

12. both talked to God on mountains tops.
this is just a few, their are many more. By now one should have the understanding of who the two witness are.

Conclusion: the Lord Jesus in flesh as a man is the other of the two witness meaning John the Baptist. The Gospel truth, and Baptism are still in the earth witnessing even today.

PCY
 

GUANO

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@GUANO

Welcome to the site.
Good point that you bring up.


I have never believed that they represent just any couple of men...be they Moses, Elijah or whoever .
Even in my youth as a new Christian, it didn't take me long to see that it was deeper than just that. :)

Amen, good point.

Thanks for the welcome.

If you take prophetic scripture as a whole and incorporate the prophetic visions of Zechariah into the interpretation of the vision in Revelation, it's really hard to see two individual "people"... This is much larger than that...

It should be quite obvious what the Olive trees are, Christ spoke about them himself. We know for sure that one olive tree is the "Body of Christ". The other is "Israel" (I can post numerous scriptures in support of this), specifically pre-messianic Israel. It mentions the judgements that these two figures plague the earth with, and these judgements are represented by both the Old Testament Prophets and the New Testament Prophets.

Olives are the fruits of the Olive tree. According to Christ, fruits are ones' "works" and "exploits", it is your "witness" or "testimony/testament" of some thing... In Zechariah, he sees some funny little tubes attached to the olives so that the "oil" or "essence" (AKA SPIRIT) funnels directly through these tubes into a vessel (a thing the holds the compressed spirit of the testimony), a lamp stand, and the fire then burns to provide light in the darkness of this world... Thy Word is a Lamp unto my feet...

Zechariah saw the Word of God coming from the fruits of the labor of Israel, he saw them contained in some kind of vessel which provides light to the world...

I believe this prophecy is already "past" meaning, the two witnesses are already "ascended into the heavens", a place of renown and esteem and authority over the earth. At one time they were almost destroyed, but it would be utterly impossible to do such a thing now. They will bear witness to all the inhabitants of the earth.
 

GUANO

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Yes, and this return, it was before "the great and dreadful day of the LORD".

two things,
#1. is not John symbolic of the Elijah in Revelation 11:6 "These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will".

#2. is not "the great and dreadful day of the LORD" have already passed? if so, then these events are not future. meaning that the two witness are already come.


#1, you got that right with Elijah, and who turns the waters to blood? John! (The prophecy of Wormwood)

#2, try not think of time in such a linear fashion, especially as it pertains to visions and prophecy. It's happened, it's happening, and it's going to happen... Yesterday, today, and forever...
 

101G

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#1, you got that right with Elijah, and who turns the waters to blood? John! (The prophecy of Wormwood)

#2, try not think of time in such a linear fashion, especially as it pertains to visions and prophecy. It's happened, it's happening, and it's going to happen... Yesterday, today, and forever...
first thanks for the reply.

not saying that you're right or wrong on time, but consider this. in stead of linear fashion over all, think of "EVENTS" in that linear fashion over all.

PCY
 

101G

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It should be quite obvious what the Olive trees are, Christ spoke about them himself. We know for sure that one olive tree is the "Body of Christ". The other is "Israel" (I can post numerous scriptures in support of this), specifically pre-messianic Israel. It mentions the judgements that these two figures plague the earth with, and these judgements are represented by both the Old Testament Prophets and the New Testament Prophets.
if you will please post the scriptures that support your view that one olive tree is the "Body of Christ"

and the other olive tree is Israel

Thanks in advance.
 

GUANO

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if you will please post the scriptures that support your view that one olive tree is the "Body of Christ"

and the other olive tree is Israel

Thanks in advance.

Here are a few:

Old Testament:

King David says: "But I am like a green olive tree in the house of God..."
(Psalm 52)

Those who fear the Lord shall have offspring that are "like olive plants"
(Psalm 128)

"The Lord called thy name (The Children of Israel), A green olive tree, fair, and of goodly fruit:..."
"...For the Lord of hosts, that planted thee..."
(Jeremiah 11)

"...the glory of Jacob shall be made thin..."
"...as the shaking of an olive tree, two or three berries in the top of the uppermost bough, four or five in the outmost fruitful branches thereof..."
(Isaiah 17)

"...I will be as the dew unto Israel: he shall grow..."
"...and his beauty shall be as the olive tree..."
(Hosea 14)


New Testament:
"For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert grafted contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?"
(Romans 11)


"Testament"
something that serves as a sign or evidence of a specified fact, event, or quality.
"growing attendance figures are a testament to the event's popularity"
synonyms: testimony, witness, evidence, proof, attestation; More
 

GUANO

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first thanks for the reply.

not saying that you're right or wrong on time, but consider this. in stead of linear fashion over all, think of "EVENTS" in that linear fashion over all.

PCY

In this respect, there is no indication in scripture that the "great earthquake" in which a "tenth part of the city fell" is the "Great Day of The Lord"... The Great Day of the Lord seems to fit better with the Gog/Magog siege of the Messianic Kingdom which leads into the Great White Throne Judgement
 

bbyrd009

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dead men cannot, correct?
hmm. i dunno bout this, if blood can cry from the ground. Spiritually speaking a dead man can witness imo.
Hitler provides a witness for us today, as does M Gandhi i think
NOTE: John was not sent "BY" God, no, read it again. John was sent "FROM" God.
these are the same preposition in Hebrew; same word
you can't deny it they are the two witness.
then you gotta ask why all the coyness at IDing them then? Wadr imo you are 2+2=5 here
 
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101G

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Thanks for those verses.
Here are a few:

Old Testament:

King David says: "But I am like a green olive tree in the house of God..."
(Psalm 52)

Those who fear the Lord shall have offspring that are "like olive plants"
(Psalm 128)
#1. these two I can go with, but, a little iffy, but I can go with that because understand INDIVIDUAL men, meaning (males and Females) are either Olives trees, or wild grapes, or briers and thorns.

do you understand this? listen, Israel as a Nation, is look upon as a vineyard of a variety of Plants, not just olives, but grapes as well. I'll point this out later in the topic. when I get to it I'll remind you with these "****" ok.

"The Lord called thy name (The Children of Israel), A green olive tree, fair, and of goodly fruit:..."
"...For the Lord of hosts, that planted thee..."
(Jeremiah 11)
#2. I hope you're not using this passage of scripture in your Identity as to where the two witness come from, because if you do, Jeremiah 11:16 "The LORD called thy name, A green olive tree, fair, and of goodly fruit: with the noise of a great tumult he hath kindled fire upon it, and the branches of it are broken.
Jeremiah 11:17 "For the LORD of hosts, that planted thee, hath pronounced evil against thee, for the evil of the house of Israel and of the house of Judah, which they have done against themselves to provoke me to anger in offering incense unto Baal.

see he CALLED them a Olive tree, but turn out to be thorn and briers
let's check the record, Isaiah 5:3 "And now, O inhabitants of Jerusalem, and men of Judah, judge, I pray you, betwixt me and my vineyard.

Isaiah 5:4 "What could have been done more to my vineyard, that I have not done in it? wherefore, when I looked that it should bring forth grapes, brought it forth wild grapes?

Isaiah 5:5 "And now go to; I will tell you what I will do to my vineyard: I will take away the hedge thereof, and it shall be eaten up; and break down the wall thereof, and it shall be trodden down:

Isaiah 5:6 "And I will lay it waste: it shall not be pruned, nor digged; but there shall come up briers and thorns: I will also command the clouds that they rain no rain upon it.

Isaiah 5:7 "For the vineyard of the LORD of hosts is the house of Israel, and the men of Judah his pleasant plant: and he looked for judgment, but behold oppression; for righteousness, but behold a cry.

"...the glory of Jacob shall be made thin..."
"...as the shaking of an olive tree, two or three berries in the top of the uppermost bough, four or five in the outmost fruitful branches thereof..."
(Isaiah 17)
#3. WELL, WELL, WELL, you left something out. you left out the "remnant" the vine which the TRUE VINE is to come. listen, Isaiah 17:6 "Yet gleaning grapes shall be left in it, as the shaking of an olive tree, two or three berries in the top of the uppermost bough, four or five in the outmost fruitful branches thereof, saith the LORD God of Israel".
AS, AS, AS, the shaking of an olive tree, but is not . see grapes are not olives.

"...I will be as the dew unto Israel: he shall grow..."
"...and his beauty shall be as the olive tree..."
(Hosea 14)
here again as, the olive tree. the olive is "A" individual person, not a nation.

New Testament:
"For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert grafted contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?"
(Romans 11)

see there is no tree in Israel any moer ... NOT OUTSIDE THE LORD JESUS, listen,
John 15:1 "I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.

John 15:2 "Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit. (SEE, you're not a tree but a branch, understand now)

John 15:3 "Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.

John 15:4 "Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.

John 15:5 "I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

John 15:6 "If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned".

see, if is a man abide. but in Isaiah 5:7 "For the vineyard of the LORD of hosts is the house of Israel, and the men of Judah his pleasant plant

there is no more a plant, why because the tree have been cut foo, listen, Zechariah 6:12 "And speak unto him, saying, Thus speaketh the LORD of hosts, saying, Behold the man whose name is The BRANCH; and he shall grow up out of his place, and he shall build the temple of the LORD". this is the ROOT out of dry ground".

"Testament"
something that serves as a sign or evidence of a specified fact, event, or quality.
"growing attendance figures are a testament to the event's popularity"
synonyms: testimony, witness, evidence, proof, attestation; More
a testament is "a", "A", "a", witness, meaning an "INDIVIDUAL" for a covenant consist of two person.

so an INDIVIDUAL is one each of the two witness.

Hope this helped.