WHAT ALMOST ALL PREMILLENNIALISTS DO NOT NOTICE OR REFUSE TO SEE

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Timtofly

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They were beheaded because they are part of the "first resurrection", which is the resurrection of Christ! They were faithful to Christ unto death because they were spiritually alive through His Spirit within having part in the resurrection life of Christ who is the first resurrection to never die again. All who partake of Christ's resurrection life before they die, and before the last trumpet begins to sound have partaken of the "first resurrection" and they shall never die again, even though their body will succumb to death. They shall still be living souls in heaven a spiritual body of believers there and like Christ, shall NEVER die again.
Exactly, you have no physical resurrection.

They did not receive the second birth nor the first resurrection until they stood before thrones and were judged.

The church is the ones on the thrones, plural. The church is not judging church members. The church is judging non church members and granting them both the second birth and first resurrection.

Since you call the first resurrection, the second birth, you have no resurrection whatsoever. You only have a spiritual birth with two names.
 

TribulationSigns

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Revelation 20:1-2 Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, holding the key of the abyss and a great chain in his hand. And he laid hold of the dragon, the serpent of old, who is the devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years;

The text above indicates a particular individual called Satan. It locates him in the Abyss and specifies the duration in that location as a thousand years.

Name: Dragon, the serpent of old, who is the devil and Satan.
Location: Abyss
Time: One Thousand Years.

So, this is not a general statement as you suppose.

Satan is a SPIRIT. Not a created being like most people believe (that is a different subject that I may explain another time). The bottomless pit or "abyss" as you said, is NOT a literal place. No literal chain or key can bound a spirit. The place symbolically that Satan's power has been restrained so that God can build the church.

Again, 1,000 years is not literal. Its a spiritual number representing fullness of whatever is in view. Not something we can figure out with our calendar.
 

TribulationSigns

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Revelation 12:6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

After the Cross, the woman now representing the New Testament congregation of Israel, the Church has fled into the wilderness (world without Gospel). God has sent His church on a great commission to fed her with manna (gospel) for 1,260 days. It is also the same period that the Two Witnesses (again church) preached the gospel for 1,260 days. Picture this with Israel in the wilderness without water. Same thing with Church sent out into the wilderness (world) where there is no water of gospel but God provided her with it. Nothing to do with Israel in the middle east.
 

Davidpt

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After the Cross, the woman now representing the New Testament congregation of Israel, the Church has fled into the wilderness (world without Gospel). God has sent His church on a great commission to fed her with manna (gospel) for 1,260 days. It is also the same period that the Two Witnesses (again church) preached the gospel for 1,260 days. Picture this with Israel in the wilderness without water. Same thing with Church sent out into the wilderness (world) where there is no water of gospel but God provided her with it. Nothing to do with Israel in the middle east.

Except none of that matters in regards to the point I was trying to make. Amils argue that chilioi in Revelation 20, meaning a thousand in that chapter, that it is not literally meaning 1000, it is meaning more than 1000. Unless my Strong's is wrong, and maybe it is for all I know, it records that 'thousand' in Revelation 12:6 is also chilioi. And that it is mathematically impossible to arrive at 1260 if one number is 1000, another number is 200, and another number is 60, but that chilioi, according to Amils, does not literally mean 1000, it means more than 1000.

It would look like this in the Greek. chilioi + diakosioi + hexekonta = 1260. Therefore, it is ludricrous to insist that chilioi does not mean 1000, that it means more than 1000. To be consistant, one then needs to argue in the same manner per diakosioi, that it doesn't mean 200, it means more than 200. That hexekonta does not mean 60, it means more than 60. Now what?

All I'm doing here then is proving via applying plain ole common sense and with math that even 5th graders can comprehend, that it is not reasonable that chilioi is not meaning 1000, that it is meaning anything but that. Now apply what I said here with that of the post I submitted per #260. And if for some bizarre reason post #260 intially made no sense, it should now, based on what I just submitted here.

The point then being, since Revelation 12:6 undeniably proves that chilioi has to mean 1000 since math never lies, one can't then insist, that in Revelation 20 though, chilioi does not literally mean 1000. It means anything but that.
 
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Timtofly

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That's how TIME works. A thousand years symbolizes time that began with the first advent of Christ coming to earth a man, and will end when the seventh trumpet begins to sound that this specific TIME shall be no longer.
If a thousand years is not a thousand years, why is 70 weeks in Daniel 70 weeks and not a really long time?

Don't you claim that a thousand years starts as soon as those 70 weeks are up?

So if you are being consistent, a thousand years should have ended just like the 70 weeks did. But Amil are not consistent, because it has obviously been more than a thousand years, so they "move the goal post". They were the original date setters. When time was not up after a thousand years, they changed their date to indefinite.

I would state that God has not even completed the last half of the 70th week. Time was extended for the fulness of the Gentiles. That extension happened after Jesus was cut off, and we know that was the Cross. So the thousand year reign was also placed on hold until Jesus returns as the King on Israel's throne in Jerusalem.

That is not denying the power and work of the Cross. The physical work was accomplished. The point is that God is longsuffering and millions of people have entered the kingdom instead of never being born at all.
 

TribulationSigns

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Except none of that matters in regards to the point I was trying to make. Amils argue that chilioi in Revelation 20, meaning a thousand in that chapter, that it is not literally meaning 1000, it is meaning more than 1000. Unless my Strong's is wrong, and maybe it is for all I know, it records that 'thousand' in Revelation 12:6 is also chilioi. And that it is mathematically impossible to arrive at 1260 if one number is 1000, another number is 200, and another number is 60, but that chilioi, according to Amils, does not literally mean 1000, it means more than 1000.

I can see why you don't quite understand what God means by [chilioi.] The Greek word for thousand is [chilioi] which is in the plural and can mean an uncertain length of time or number. And that is the way that it is used here. To illustrate an unspecified length of time. And of course, it "MUST" be, for God is not interested in notifying the world of the precise actual length of time which Satan is bound (since we know the start of his binding was at the cross). It is to be a mystery to the unfaithful that he is even loosed. They will be eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage because they are unaware that Satan is loosed. The Spiritual number 1000 years signifies until "the fulness of time." Or fullness of whatever is in view.

When we study scripture we will find that God often uses certain number relationships to signify things. For example the number 3 for the purpose or will of God, as in the 3 times Christ prayed, the 3 times the sheet was let down and God said kill and eat, the 3 times Paul sought the Lord that the thorn in the flesh would be removed from him, the 3 times God came seeking fruit on the fig tree, or the 3 days till the Temple was raised up, etc., etc. Likewise, the number 12 representing the congregation, as in the 12 stars, the 12 tribes of Israel, the 12 Apostles, the 12 gates of the city, etc., or the number 7 and it's multiples, 70, 700, 7000 as the "Totality" of whatever is in view. And in this same way the number 10, 100, 1,000 is likewise used in a spiritual sense to signifies the fullness of whatever is being spoken about. As an example, as you might say to your wife, "I'll love you for a thousand years". You're not literally putting a number on the time, rather, you're expressing the "fullness" of your love for her. The 1000 is a symbolic length of time to indicate you'll love her from now till the fullness of time. Whatever that time may literally be, whether it be 10 years, 30 years 63 years, whatever it may be is symbolized by the use of the term a thousand years. And God uses this number in that way in scripture. We can see in the Psalms where the Lord God uses it to signify the fullness of hills:

Psalms 50:10-11
  • For Every beast of the forest is mine, and the cattle upon a Thousand hills.
  • I know All the fowls of the mountains: and the wild beasts of the field are mine."
Is that to illustrate a literal number of hills hold his cattle? Does that mean that the cattle upon 1001th hill, or the cattle upon 1002nd hill are not His? No, and so quite obviously the number thousand here is not a number to be understood literally. It's a number that God used here to illustrate the fullness. When we read the verse carefully we see "every" beast of the forest is His. Consider what God is doing here. All the cattle are His! God is using the term 1000 to show us this. But we have to have our eyes open to see it. Nothing is in the Bible by accident. The 1000 cattle indicates the fullness of cattle are His. All of them are the Lord's. Not just those on thousand literal hills. Likewise, Isaiah chapter 7 speaks about the first advent of the Lord (verse 14), and continues:

Isaiah 7:23
  • "And it shall come to pass in THAT DAY, that every place shall be, where there were a thousand vines at a thousand silverlings, it shall even be for briers and thorns. With arrows and with bows shall men come hither; because All the land shall become briers and thorns."
Are we to suppose that this is a literal number. Were there literally 1000 vines and literally 1000 silver coins, not 1001 or 999? When we look at the verse carefully we see that it is indicating that where there was the fullness of vines, there will be briers and thorns. The 1000 is not to alert us to a literal number of vines, or the literal number of 1000 silverlings (pieces of silver money), No, it is to illustrate where the fullness of vines once were, and where the fullness of money was, it is Changed to briers & thorns or worthlessness. In other words, it's become bankrupt! God is talking about a "full" destruction. That's what the 1000 illustrates. The fullness of what was there, is made briers and thorns. and that is made clear by God as it then says "because All the land shall become briers and thorns." You see, that's what the number 1000 illustrated. the Fulness. Again when we look at a verse such as Psalms 105, we read,

Psalms 105:8
  • "He hath remembered His covenant Forever, the word which He commanded to a Thousand generations. Which covenant He made with Abraham, and His oath unto Isaac;"
The LORD hath remembered His Covenant, how long? Forever! And the Word which He commanded to 1000 generations. Is This Literal? Is His Word only commanded to literally 1000 generations and not 1001 or 1002? Will His Word stop commanded to the generations after 1000th generation? Of course not. God would not suddenly break His covenant in the 1001st generation of those who remain faithful to Him. One thousand has to be understood figuratively here, not literally. Again, look at the context of the verse. His Covenant is remembered forever. And His Word commanded to 1000 generations! Context tells us that this 1000 generations is "the Fullness or completeness" of all generations. Or even Forever! That's how long it is remembered. Always! And it is remembered by the messenger of the Covenant Christ, send down from heaven. The number 1000 has been put there by God to show us a certain consistency in His use of this number symbolically.

Deuteronomy 7:9
  • "know therefore that the Lord Thy God, He is God, the faithful God, which keepeth the Covenant and mercy with them that love Him and keep His commandments to a thousand generations".
In light of this scripture, how can anyone say a thousand is always understood literally? Do we keep His commandments to a thousand generations, or do we keep them always in Christ forever? The 1000 is Symbolic of the Fullness. In Revelations chapter 20 where the context is symbolic language, the 1000 years that Satan is bound is symbolic language also. It indicates the fullness of time. In other words, from the time that he is bound by Christ at the cross, to the time that he is loosed, is the fullness of time which God prescribes. Till the time when the fulness of the nations or gentiles be come in, and the Church be fulfilled. Whatever literal amount of time it may actually be is not for us to know. But when the fulness be come in, so all Israel shall be saved as it is written, by the Deliverer, Christ.
Now, you see that 1,000 years means the fullness of whatever the purpose that Satan was bound for. Or 1,000 years means the fullness of time for the rest of the deaf to remain silence in the grave until Christ returns when they shall resurrect for judgment. Or 1,000 years means the fullness of Church commission is finished then Satan will be loosened from the bottomless pit, whenever that may be. Not exactly 1,000 years.

Selah!
 

ewq1938

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I can see why you don't quite understand what God means by [chilioi.] The Greek word for thousand is [chilioi] which is in the plural and can mean an uncertain length of time or number.


No, it doesn't have that meaning. It is plural because it is a number that means a thousand of something like a thousand dollar bills VS. something like a thousand dollar bill which has the same value but is one bill versus a thousand bills. It still means exactly a thousand in the Greek language.
 
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CadyandZoe

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Satan is a SPIRIT. Not a created being like most people believe (that is a different subject that I may explain another time). The bottomless pit or "abyss" as you said, is NOT a literal place. No literal chain or key can bound a spirit. The place symbolically that Satan's power has been restrained so that God can build the church.

Again, 1,000 years is not literal. Its a spiritual number representing fullness of whatever is in view. Not something we can figure out with our calendar.
I'm not certain that Satan is a spirit, but for the sake of discussion, let's say he is. That being the case, then the Abyss and the chains are symbolic of some other thing that is able to keep Satan away from human beings so as to deceive them.

I understand the passage a bit differently. The meaning of Satan's binding is understood from the context of the passage. Consider the verse that mentions the binding with the verse that mentions the loosing.

Revelation 20:1-3 Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, holding the key of the abyss and a great chain in his hand. 2 And he laid hold of the dragon, the serpent of old, who is the devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years; 3 and he threw him into the abyss, and shut it and sealed it over him, so that he would not deceive the nations any longer, until the thousand years were completed; after these things he must be released for a short time.

According to the passage above, Satan is bound "so that he would not deceive the nations any longer." But why does Satan want to deceive the nations? What is his purpose?

Revelation 20:7-9 When the thousand years are completed, Satan will be released from his prison, and will come out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together for the war; the number of them is like the sand of the seashore. And they came up on the broad plain of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city, and fire came down from heaven and devoured them.

After Satan was released, he went to war with Israel and Jesus and all of his followers. To this end, he deceived the nations. So then, during this time Satan was not allowed to bring the nations against Israel. For a thousand years Israel was able to live in peace from her enemies. And when Satan was released to bring war to Israel, Satan and all the armies were burned up with fire.
 

TribulationSigns

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I'm not certain that Satan is a spirit, but for the sake of discussion, let's say he is. That being the case, then the Abyss and the chains are symbolic of some other thing that is able to keep Satan away from human beings so as to deceive them.

Yes, Satan is a spirit.

Ahh...the problem is that we (including myself in the past) believe that Satan is a spiritual being and that Christ needs to come to keep "Satan away from human beings." That is not an accurate understanding.

Joh 6:44
(44) No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Satan is a spirit of disobedience that WE HUMANS ALL have had since we were born. We ALL CAN'T come to Christ unless He did something about it. So exactly what did Christ do? He had to bind Satan (our spirit of disobedience) to restrain him so that we no longer be deceived and easier to receive the Gospel when we hear it so we can be saved. This is how Christ spoiled Satan's House (world) to spoil us by restrain him from having an influence or keep you in spiritual bondage. It is only Elect that the Father chosen to draw him to Christ. Not our own will. It is grace of God!
So in Revelation 7:1-4, AFTER God has secured all of His Elect with salvation gospel, God will remove his restrain hand away from Satan, especially those who have not yet sealed by God. The heart of those men will be hardened and will not receive the Gospel. They will start attacking Chosen Christians in all form. This would be the time of the Great Tribulation "FOR" the CHosen Elect as they face resistance or hatred from professed Christians within the Church who refuse to receive the love of the Truth. THIS is why God allow the army of false prophets and christs to come into church to keep those men deceived so whenever they seek salvation in Christ or have desire to be saved AFTER God finishes sealing His Elect, they will NOT find it! It is too late for them! I am not kidding. God said it!

Rev 9:2-6
(2) And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit.
(3) And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power.
(4) And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.
(5) And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man.
(6) And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them.

The sun is often used to represent Christ/Gospel, while the air represents the Holy Spirit. On the other hand, smoke is used to represent the spirit of Satan with false doctrines. It has the ability to block the sun and air, making it difficult for people in the congregation to see the light of the Gospel. The smoke locusts represent the false prophets and christs who possess the power of scorpions that deceive people with lying signs and wonders. God is using this army of false prophets and christs to attack and deceive men in the congregation who have not yet been saved by God in their forehead. This is because salvation has ended after God has secured all of His Elect, remember this! This is why this "short season" is a great tribulation period because it is a judgment upon God's unfaithful congregation who have refused to love the truth that the Two Witnesses testified and have them killed (silenced). At that time, people in the congregation want to be saved or seek salvation (death in Christ) but cannot find it, or death has fled from them. It is too late for the harvest has passed. This is why Christ warned that Elect need to flee the church when God judges her and pray that the flight will not occur during the winter or sabbath because its too late. Because the summer harvest and working has passed! The darkness has come.

Saleh!

God is NOT talking about preparing Satan and his army with physical nations with their guns and missiles to come down and attack upon a nation called "Israel" like you believe at all. You got WRONG Israel and WRONG physical interpretations like the rest of your post suggested.

@WPM
 

Timtofly

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Yes, Satan is a spirit.

Ahh...the problem is that we (including myself in the past) believe that Satan is a spiritual being and that Christ needs to come to keep "Satan away from human beings." That is not an accurate understanding.

Joh 6:44
(44) No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Satan is a spirit of disobedience that WE HUMANS ALL have had since we were born. We ALL CAN'T come to Christ unless He did something about it. So exactly what did Christ do? He had to bind Satan (our spirit of disobedience) to restrain him so that we no longer be deceived and easier to receive the Gospel when we hear it so we can be saved. This is how Christ spoiled Satan's House (world) to spoil us by restrain him from having an influence or keep you in spiritual bondage. It is only Elect that the Father chosen to draw him to Christ. Not our own will. It is grace of God!
So in Revelation 7:1-4, AFTER God has secured all of His Elect with salvation gospel, God will remove his restrain hand away from Satan, especially those who have not yet sealed by God. The heart of those men will be hardened and will not receive the Gospel. They will start attacking Chosen Christians in all form. This would be the time of the Great Tribulation "FOR" the CHosen Elect as they face resistance or hatred from professed Christians within the Church who refuse to receive the love of the Truth. THIS is why God allow the army of false prophets and christs to come into church to keep those men deceived so whenever they seek salvation in Christ or have desire to be saved AFTER God finishes sealing His Elect, they will NOT find it! It is too late for them! I am not kidding. God said it!

Rev 9:2-6
(2) And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit.
(3) And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power.
(4) And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.
(5) And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man.
(6) And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them.

The sun is often used to represent Christ/Gospel, while the air represents the Holy Spirit. On the other hand, smoke is used to represent the spirit of Satan with false doctrines. It has the ability to block the sun and air, making it difficult for people in the congregation to see the light of the Gospel. The smoke locusts represent the false prophets and christs who possess the power of scorpions that deceive people with lying signs and wonders. God is using this army of false prophets and christs to attack and deceive men in the congregation who have not yet been saved by God in their forehead. This is because salvation has ended after God has secured all of His Elect, remember this! This is why this "short season" is a great tribulation period because it is a judgment upon God's unfaithful congregation who have refused to love the truth that the Two Witnesses testified and have them killed (silenced). At that time, people in the congregation want to be saved or seek salvation (death in Christ) but cannot find it, or death has fled from them. It is too late for the harvest has passed. This is why Christ warned that Elect need to flee the church when God judges her and pray that the flight will not occur during the winter or sabbath because its too late. Because the summer harvest and working has passed! The darkness has come.

Saleh!

God is NOT talking about preparing Satan and his army with physical nations with their guns and missiles to come down and attack upon a nation called "Israel" like you believe at all. You got WRONG Israel and WRONG physical interpretations like the rest of your post suggested.

@WPM
So your whole thesis is built on the fact Eve was split between obeying her husband and her own spiritual desires, and she passed that rebel spirit on to all her offspring?

Until one offspring would be born immune to that spirit?

I understand now why you seem to be slightly off on all your interpretations of Scripture from Genesis to Revelation.

I don't know any one who thinks God is preparing Satan and his armies to start fighting any one, much less Israel.