What Are we Getting Saved From?
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teamventure
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What has it got to do with JW's? I stated the number of times that the words heaven and hell are mentioned, and I am not a JW. You can't seem to get JW's out of your mind!
Where's the evidence for that? Just stating it doesn't mean that it is the truth. Do the Scriptures say more about hell than about resurrection and eternal life?
teamventure
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Unless it's stated in scripture which it is.
The evidence is in the scriptures posted in this thread. Man, you are blind.
When I defend the Bible, JW's attack the Bible. You have it backwards. They can't seem to get me out of their Kingdom Hall brainwashed minds.
I meant where is the evidence that the concept of eternal punishment is mentioned more times than heaven, or the resurrection and eternal life. Just stating that hell is mentioned more times than heaven, without supplying evidence to back that up, is not convincing. I supplied evidence that the word heaven is found in the Bible about ten times more than the word hell, so that would seem to contradict your claim.
Part of the duty of being a Christian is to defend the truth as presented in the Bible, and to defend the good character of God. In a Christian Bible discussion forum it is to be expected that there will be some disagreement on interpretation of the Bible, because we are not all at the same stage in the school of Christ. But just because somebody disagrees with your interpretation that does not mean that they are attacking the Bible, or that they can't get you out of their minds! We (or at least I) participate in these discussions in order to share what we have learnt, to test whether what we believe is correct according to the Bible, and to learn new things as we study God's word.
Attacking and slandering the JWs, accusing them of "twisting the Scriptures", "JW's avoid Scripture like plague", "JW's have ZERO Scriptural support", saying my input is "JW word games" even though I am not a JW, etc., sure gives the impression that you are attacking JW's rather than JW's attacking you. You should not be concerned about which denomination the person you are debating with is associated with, you should only concern yourself with what they are teaching. It's only the truth that matters.
JW's have no more been brainwashed by their teachers than you have been brainwashed by your teachers to believe that God is planning to torture perhaps millions or billions of people for all eternity. Jesus said, "No one is good except one—God" (Mark 10:18). Somebody who chooses to torture people for eternity, continually working to keep them alive so that they suffer, rather than simply destroying them (so that they suffer a second death), does not sound like a good person to me.
You've been brainwashed. You have a different savior than me. You're siding with JW's against Bible believing Christians. And yes JW's TWIST nearly every verse in the Christian Bible. If anyone is "slandering" it's you. JW's don't even believe their own bible.
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By whom? I've come to believe what I believe after learning from multiple sources over time, and always checking what the Bible says. Some things I used to believe I have since learned were not correct. I don't just believe what people tell me, I check for myself whether or not what they are saying is correct, and whether or not it is in harmony with other Scripture passages.
Once I struggled to understand something, but I didn't just accept as true what others were saying about it, which didn't make sense to me. If it didn't make sense then I would not believe it. Eventually, after we had a small Bible study in my home, I asked the pastor who was leading the study if he could explain it to me. His answer didn't make sense to me either. But later that night, while I was asleep and dreaming, God spoke three words into my mind. It was a number, and when I eventually looked that page up in my Bible (I only had one Bible at that time) I realised that it was an answer to my question! So perhaps I've been brainwashed by God on some things!
Ultimately there is only one Saviour, God YHWH, who chose His only begotten Son, our Lord Jesus, to provide the redemption price to save us, and to establish God's kingdom in order to save as many of mankind as are willing to be saved.
I don't side with JW's any more than I side with anyone else. I agree with those who I believe have an understanding of the truth of God's word, and I disagree with those that don't, so that I may help them to understand the truth. I do that to the best of my abilities, to try and help my brethren in Christ. And sometimes I learn some new things from others that post here with similar intentions, and it is always joyous to learn something new from God's word.
As I've said, that's not been my experience, and it's slanderous to make such a claim.
To say that JW's don't even believe their own bible is once again slanderous. But please tell me how I have been slanderous to you in my posts. I can't spot anything slanderous. You do know what slanderous means, I presume? Some English dictionary definitions:
Slander is to make false statements about someone, usually to hurt his reputation. Slander Definitions | What does slander mean? | Best 14 Definitions of Slander
A malicious, false, and defamatory statement or report. Definition of slander | Dictionary.com
Or perhaps it should be libelous if it's written rather than spoken? :smlhmm:
teamventure
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I already pointed out that the concept of eternal punishment is in the Bible in many places without using the word hell.
Your contradiction is null and void.
teamventure
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teamventure
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By whom? I've come to believe what I believe after learning from multiple sources over time, and always checking what the Bible says. Some things I used to believe I have since learned were not correct. I don't just believe what people tell me, I check for myself whether or not what they are saying is correct, and whether or not it is in harmony with other Scripture passages.
Once I struggled to understand something, but I didn't just accept as true what others were saying about it, which didn't make sense to me. If it didn't make sense then I would not believe it. Eventually, after we had a small Bible study in my home, I asked the pastor who was leading the study if he could explain it to me. His answer didn't make sense to me either. But later that night, while I was asleep and dreaming, God spoke three words into my mind. It was a number, and when I eventually looked that page up in my Bible (I only had one Bible at that time) I realised that it was an answer to my question! So perhaps I've been brainwashed by God on some things!
Ultimately there is only one Saviour, God YHWH, who chose His only begotten Son, our Lord Jesus, to provide the redemption price to save us, and to establish God's kingdom in order to save as many of mankind as are willing to be saved.
I don't side with JW's any more than I side with anyone else. I agree with those who I believe have an understanding of the truth of God's word, and I disagree with those that don't, so that I may help them to understand the truth. I do that to the best of my abilities, to try and help my brethren in Christ. And sometimes I learn some new things from others that post here with similar intentions, and it is always joyous to learn something new from God's word.
As I've said, that's not been my experience, and it's slanderous to make such a claim.
To say that JW's don't even believe their own bible is once again slanderous. But please tell me how I have been slanderous to you in my posts. I can't spot anything slanderous. You do know what slanderous means, I presume? Some English dictionary definitions:
Slander is to make false statements about someone, usually to hurt his reputation. Slander Definitions | What does slander mean? | Best 14 Definitions of Slander
A malicious, false, and defamatory statement or report. Definition of slander | Dictionary.com
Or perhaps it should be libelous if it's written rather than spoken? :smlhmm:
Here's a claim, you and the JWs have twisted about every verse of scripture in this thread.
face2face
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You attach non Biblical notions to words to form images in your mind of what eternal punishment might be - are these the same images which Jesus held in mind? Doubtful! The issue is asking for evidence which to date you havn't provided once.
When was this place prepared?
What is its genesis story?
Where in the OT are God's people warned of such a place and destination?
If you are unable to supply evidence why do you believe in its existence?
Plenty there for you to work through.
F2F
teamventure
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face2face
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Everyone goes there team that's the point! Psalms 49:15
Be careful about the condemnation....the Jews thought that they were right about Jesus too.....they were so confident that he was a phony that they cursed themselves and their children with his blood....(Matthew 27:25) Who told them he was not who he said he was?
Jesus also said that his true disciples would be a hated minority.....not for anything that they were doing wrong, just because they preached what Jesus taught (John 15:18-21).....does Christendom fit that description? Hardly...it teaches what Jesus never did....its why I left.
You sound extremely JWish! Why is that?By whom? I've come to believe what I believe after learning from multiple sources over time, and always checking what the Bible says. Some things I used to believe I have since learned were not correct. I don't just believe what people tell me, I check for myself whether or not what they are saying is correct, and whether or not it is in harmony with other Scripture passages.
Once I struggled to understand something, but I didn't just accept as true what others were saying about it, which didn't make sense to me. If it didn't make sense then I would not believe it. Eventually, after we had a small Bible study in my home, I asked the pastor who was leading the study if he could explain it to me. His answer didn't make sense to me either. But later that night, while I was asleep and dreaming, God spoke three words into my mind. It was a number, and when I eventually looked that page up in my Bible (I only had one Bible at that time) I realised that it was an answer to my question! So perhaps I've been brainwashed by God on some things!
Ultimately there is only one Saviour, God YHWH, who chose His only begotten Son, our Lord Jesus, to provide the redemption price to save us, and to establish God's kingdom in order to save as many of mankind as are willing to be saved.
I don't side with JW's any more than I side with anyone else. I agree with those who I believe have an understanding of the truth of God's word, and I disagree with those that don't, so that I may help them to understand the truth. I do that to the best of my abilities, to try and help my brethren in Christ. And sometimes I learn some new things from others that post here with similar intentions, and it is always joyous to learn something new from God's word.
As I've said, that's not been my experience, and it's slanderous to make such a claim.
To say that JW's don't even believe their own bible is once again slanderous. But please tell me how I have been slanderous to you in my posts. I can't spot anything slanderous. You do know what slanderous means, I presume? Some English dictionary definitions:
Slander is to make false statements about someone, usually to hurt his reputation. Slander Definitions | What does slander mean? | Best 14 Definitions of Slander
A malicious, false, and defamatory statement or report. Definition of slander | Dictionary.com
Or perhaps it should be libelous if it's written rather than spoken? :smlhmm:
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Why does Satan send his lying children to try to convince us that there is no eternal Hell fire? Hmm
Revelation 20
10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
He wants our company "forever and ever".
Revelation 20
10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
He wants our company "forever and ever".
I wasn't contradicting you, I was simply asking you to provide Biblical evidence to support your claim that "the concept of eternal punishment" is mentioned more times in the Bible than heaven is. I called your bluff, so it's up to you to prove it. So far you haven't.
So let me do some work for you. From Did Jesus talk more about HELL than He did Heaven?:
I have heard it said by some very well-known preachers that Jesus spoke more about Hell than He did about Heaven but what are the facts? As a young minister, I had heard this so-called fact repeated many times but every time I heard it repeated something didn’t sit right with me. Many years ago, I decided to do some research to find out for myself if this was true. What I discovered was there are 1900 plus verses in the four Gospels that contain Jesus’ words. Surprisingly, only about 60 of those verses, or just three percent of them, might be construed as either directly or indirectly referring to Hell.
On the other hand, there are more than three times as many verses in the Gospels in which Jesus references Heaven, eternal life, or his coming kingdom: 192 verses in all, or almost 10%.
So, the evidence suggests that Jesus didn’t speak about Hell more than Heaven. In truth, he talked about Heaven three times more than He did about Hell!
On the other hand, there are more than three times as many verses in the Gospels in which Jesus references Heaven, eternal life, or his coming kingdom: 192 verses in all, or almost 10%.
So, the evidence suggests that Jesus didn’t speak about Hell more than Heaven. In truth, he talked about Heaven three times more than He did about Hell!
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