What do you think qualifies one to be one of Christ's disciples?

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shnarkle

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"Sure, but it's also the way of the world. It has nothing to do with God's plan. It has nothing to do with Christ's explicit instructions [your reference here is to selling all our stuff] as to what it means to truly be a disciple."[/size]

'Jesus said to give up working for a living. Walk in faith brother.'[/size]
"Sure, they just can't be one of Christ's disciples."[/size]

[size=NaN]I dont know what to make of this discussion, snarkle. You can't be any more clear that you believe a disciple must sell all their stuff. You have said as much multiple times and have explicitly said that Jesus said to give up working for a living. So, when you tell everyone they have to sell all their possessions in order to be a disciple and that Jesus says they cannot have a job and be a disciple or have any money...then that pretty much is a vow of poverty. I dont know about you, but when I have multiple random people making the same comment to me, at some point I start to think that maybe I am wrong and they are right....ya think? I mean, what are the chances that three different people make the similar statement to you about the content of your posts? Perhaps you need to work on your communication skills if this isn't what you are intending to say.[/size]


Well considering we dont live in the first century Middle East, I dont think any of us live in conditions comparable to the disciples. Perhaps we should give up running water, electricity, and pooping indoors as well? By your rationale, the only real way to be a disciple is if we give up our jobs, put on cloaks and walk from town to town in sandals learning via 1st century schooling practices. Of course, we need to make sure we take dirt roads...because paved roads would be to comfy and undisciple-like. The kingdom of God does not consist of eating, drinking or home size. You are majoring in minors here. Greed is a sin. Having a job or running water is not.


You said I need to quit my job to be a disciple. My response was, "What if my job involves spreading the Gospel with others?" Should I quit my job to meet your understanding of Christ's standards to be a disciple if my job revolves around spreading the Gospel?


What if my job is the means by which God desires to provide for my needs? I mean, after all, Paul did tell us to work with our hands and earn money so we could be generous to others.... Oh..and last I checked, the Proverbs are filled with lessons about working diligently with our hands every day...you know...sowing and reaping. I dont think provision from God has to be miraculous or non-job related to be valid. I give thanks to God for my job and I see my pay as provision from His hand.


For the same reason I am bothered when Mormon's show up to my house telling me they have more information about Jesus.


Perhaps you just are not a very good communicator.
Your snide remarks are getting a bit tiresome. You assume that by selling what you have you are automatically taking a vow of poverty. That isn't what Jesus said. He said that you can't work for God and work for money. This isn't a problem with my ability to communicate. This is a problem with people not wanting to accept what Jesus is plainly stating. Jesus is saying that if you want to be a disciple you're going to have to step out in faith, and start working for your Father in heaven instead of relying on your own ability to make money. You're going to have to work for Him as your employer.

What's even more important is that even if God decides that you're supposed to live in poverty, that's a small price to pay for the kingdom. Walking in faith means walking according to God's Word regardless of what may come; none of it matters in comparison to the kingdom. No judgements here. I'm not passing judgement on anyone here. I'm simply pointing out the gospel message and you're free to accept it or reject it.
 

shnarkle

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Since the OP was "

"What do you think qualifies one to be one of Christ's disciples?"

One thing for sure it would not be a person in religions. It was the religious that killed Jesus, stoned Stephens to death, and persecuted Paul for the gospel Jesus gave him for the world.
I like the example Jesus gave of the heretical Samaritan; those despised lowlifes that even Jesus pointed out don't know that salvation comes from the Jews. Yet, he's the one who loves his neighbor. Love, that word that everyone loves to throw around like we know what it means, but just can't seem to show it to the least of Christ's brethren. Why? Because we don't see them as the least of Christ's brethren. We see them as "unbelievers", enemies, or opponents.
 
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Wormwood

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"What do you think qualifies one to be one of Christ's disciples?"

​Jesus said discipleship came about by 1) baptizing people of all nations and 2) teaching them to obey everything I commanded you.

So, I would say discipleship comes as a person hears the message of Christ, believes it, is baptized and is instructed by and obedient to the teachings of Jesus in their daily living.
 

shnarkle

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i see reflections now--that likely were not apparent so much even 20 years ago--of "666 in their hand, or their forehead" (everything they do, or everything they think), now applicable to even crop production for profit, but i guess that doesn't mean that one could not still find gainful employment somewhere. But wherever the $ is being sought, the cheapest method is also usually sought, now, too, right. And that is not even getting in to the reality of a $ that is manipulated--and you have to be paid in $s, right. See the difference in United States Notes--what Kennedy was printing--and Federal Reserve Notes, iow. The second requires dilution, and inflation, etc, and they have in fact "crashed" over 99% since their inception. We just don't notice it, having been born and raised with a dollar that shrinks in value over time.

And if you advocate some other medium of exchange, you are an enemy of the state. Now i'm seeing the rise of cryptocurrency--BTC is up over $1000 each again--and imo the dollar is hanging by a thread now; it only lacks some trusted source, prolly a sovereign one, to create a trusted crypto exchange...i'm surprised Iran hasn't thought of it yet, actually. They are wanting to dump dollars, and a crypto exchange would be a fait accompli.

We can also witness that for like half of our workforce now--prolly 49%, lol--the alt seems to be to work for $, or "peanuts," for less and less than a living wage, every day. Imo it has been figured out that in a "democracy" only 51% of the pop needs to be content, see. There are many other reflections here, such as the debt being paid on $20 Trillion dollars, every day, and bailouts for bonuses, etc, but the point might be that i think one is fairly hard-pressed to justify taking a job for dollars now. The test might be if you even could eschew dollars for any amount of time; as the oppressed here have been forced to do. If you have a mortgage, it is of course pointless to pretend that you are not a slave to your mortgage, etc.
Spot on! It's all Satanic to the core. Ignorance is bliss as they say. God gave us the way to engage in commerce, and it was to be honest weights and measures. There is nothing honest about a central banking system with fractional reserve fiat currencies owned completely by the banking cartels which then take it and gamble it like drunk sailors. It's always been something that has bothered me. I knew what they were doing was wrong, but greed gets the worst of us so easily. I didn't want to look at what I was doing. I justified myself by the fact that I wasn't getting any of these idiotic loans, but I was still in the game making money off ignorant losers just the same. Jesus didn't come so we could now lend to our brother as well as our enemies. He came to tell us that our enemies were to be treated like our brothers. This means we're not supposed to lend money to anyone at interest. It's against the law to lend money at no interest in this country. It just seems so obvious to me now. I don't know why it took me so long to see this. Probably because I just wasn't ready for it until now. I wasn't ready to walk out in faith; I'm still not sure about it now. I just know that I'm much more willing than I ever was before.

People have no ideas what an incredibly massive Ponzi scheme this really is. They have no idea of the magnitude of the deception. It wasn't that long ago that people understood that pretending you had more money than you really did was immoral. Now it's openly condoned. God told Moses and especially Joshua to engage in usury with the inhabitants of the Promised Land. Why? Because in God's eyes it is an instrument of war. It still is. It's one of the best ways to enslave people, and place them into a death grip. It's what a mort(death) gage(grip) really is, yet people just can't wait to get one tied around their necks so they can pay for it for the rest of their lives.

I get these fliers in the mail to come down and see the great deals on new, used, and leased cars. They have scratch offs so I go down to get my 5 or 10 dollar Walmart gift card, but once in a while I sit down to see what their deal is just out of curiosity. I can't believe people are going for these con jobs. They're offering loans that will leave these suckers paying for a car or truck long after the it's completely worthless.

The scam is so simple, it could only work on a simpleton. They get you to focus on your monthly payment, and forget about the total cost with interest. As the monthly payment goes down, the payments extend out into infinity.

I can still remember the first time I decided to buy a house. I went in to get a loan, and after jumping through all the hoops, and signing all the paperwork, I started to ask the loan agent some questions. The house I was buying would end up costing me more than double with the interest payment plan. I woke up one night shortly after I had made an offer on a house. I had just put up the earnest money and started doing my own inspections. I was in a cold sweat, and feeling like I had just sold my soul to the devil. I called the realtor the next day and pulled out of the deal. I never used that mortgage. I decided that if I couldn't do it God's way, I didn't need a house. Less than a year and a half later I was moving into my first home. I owned the home outright. It was a better home in a better neighborhood for less money. I was still trapped though. I ended up buying four more houses before I finally realized that I was just gong to keep on doing this until I died. For what? It's pointless. It's all vanity. Even giving it up is vain. It's just for show if I haven't even got a glimpse of the kingdom.

We think we need to walk in faith because of what's to come, but we can put down something in earnest right now, and it ain't going to cause you to wake up in a cold sweat if you're being convicted. It causes you to sleep like a baby that's just been fed and burped, and wrapped up tight in its crib with a clean, fresh diaper.

My next door neighbor complains because some of the oldsters he bids jobs on want the job done for pennies. What he doesn't understand is that these old guys grew up in the depression. They remember when money used to be worth something; they're kinda living in the past. My next door neighbor is living in fantasy land as well. He doesn't get many jobs anymore. He just can't afford to do the jobs for what people want to pay. So he's going to take a pension that might just last the rest of his life if he doesn't take care of himself. Deep down he knows it, so he drinks and eats junk just to shorten his life so he doesn't run out of what little money he has left.

That sounds pretty bleak, but I'm planting crops, raising chickens and I just noticed that when Jesus says it will be just like the days of Sodom; he says they'll be buying and selling, planting and sowing, giving and taking in marriage. Well other than the marrying part, I'm doing all the rest so I think I'm in serious trouble if I don't figure out how to stop this compulsive gardening, and chicken ranching. I've become addicted to my organic garden and farm fresh free range chickens and eggs. I'm bloated with pride at my self sufficiency, and it's enough to disgust the most self satisfied Pharisees Jesus ever laid eyes on. When I point this stuff out to other people they think I'm being too judgmental. People tell me constantly to stop overthinking it; stop over analyzing it. The problem is that's the way I used to be in my reckless youth. Now, I notice things like being convicted by the Spirit; sometimes on an almost daily basis. I don't much care for it, but it seems to be having a beneficial effect on people around me; just not those who aren't into being convicted. I don't blame them; it's no fun. But playing this game with our funny money ain't any better. The best thing I can come up with is to just get rid of it, especially before it becomes completely worthless. When it reaches it's intrinsic value (zero) some people are going to get the message. I think there will still be plenty that don't though. After all, the whole world is deceived
 
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H. Richard

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Wormwood said:
"What do you think qualifies one to be one of Christ's disciples?"

​Jesus said discipleship came about by 1) baptizing people of all nations and 2) teaching them to obey everything I commanded you.

So, I would say discipleship comes as a person hears the message of Christ, believes it, is baptized and is instructed by and obedient to the teachings of Jesus in their daily living.
***
I hope you are aware that when Jesus came the nation of Israel was under the Law of Moses. Everything Jesus taught was in that law. Are we to be obedient to the Law of Moses??

Or are we to acknowledge that Jesus atoned for all the sins of the world. All of them. The only thing that condemns a person in this age of grace is un-belief that Jesus' shed blood atoned for all of the person's sins?

The child of God, those that have come to Jesus thru faith in His work on the cross are saved by belief, faith, trust in His work on the cross. The child of God is kept by God and what he/she does in their sinful flesh is between them and God..
 

Wormwood

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I hope you are aware that when Jesus came the nation of Israel was under the Law of Moses. Everything Jesus taught was in that law. Are we to be obedient to the Law of Moses??
The great commission I was referring to in Matthew 28 was given after the resurrection and the establishment of the new covenant. So, no, Jesus did not give these commands for making disciples under the Law of Moses.

Or are we to acknowledge that Jesus atoned for all the sins of the world. All of them. The only thing that condemns a person in this age of grace is un-belief that Jesus' shed blood atoned for all of the person's sins?
Both the New and Old Testament equates disobedience with unbelief. Grace is not foreign to the Old Testament.

The child of God, those that have come to Jesus thru faith in His work on the cross are saved by belief, faith, trust in His work on the cross. The child of God is kept by God and what he/she does in their sinful flesh is between them and God..
Which is what I said. A person becomes a disciple by hearing, believing, being baptized and walking in faith after the commands of Jesus.
 

bbyrd009

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shnarkle said:
Spot on! It's all Satanic to the core. Ignorance is bliss as they say. God gave us the way to engage in commerce, and it was to be honest weights and measures. There is nothing honest about a central banking system with fractional reserve fiat currencies owned completely by the banking cartels which then take it and gamble it like drunk sailors. It's always been something that has bothered me. I knew what they were doing was wrong, but greed gets the worst of us so easily. I didn't want to look at what I was doing. I justified myself by the fact that I wasn't getting any of these idiotic loans, but I was still in the game making money off ignorant losers just the same. Jesus didn't come so we could now lend to our brother as well as our enemies. He came to tell us that our enemies were to be treated like our brothers. This means we're not supposed to lend money to anyone at interest. It's against the law to lend money at no interest in this country. It just seems so obvious to me now. I don't know why it took me so long to see this. Probably because I just wasn't ready for it until now. I wasn't ready to walk out in faith; I'm still not sure about it now. I just know that I'm much more willing than I ever was before.

People have no ideas what an incredibly massive Ponzi scheme this really is. They have no idea of the magnitude of the deception. It wasn't that long ago that people understood that pretending you had more money than you really did was immoral. Now it's openly condoned. God told Moses and especially Joshua to engage in usury with the inhabitants of the Promised Land. Why? Because in God's eyes it is an instrument of war. It still is. It's one of the best ways to enslave people, and place them into a death grip. It's what a mort(death) gage(grip) really is, yet people just can't wait to get one tied around their necks so they can pay for it for the rest of their lives.

I get these fliers in the mail to come down and see the great deals on new, used, and leased cars. They have scratch offs so I go down to get my 5 or 10 dollar Walmart gift card, but once in a while I sit down to see what their deal is just out of curiosity. I can't believe people are going for these con jobs. They're offering loans that will leave these suckers paying for a car or truck long after the it's completely worthless.

The scam is so simple, it could only work on a simpleton. They get you to focus on your monthly payment, and forget about the total cost with interest. As the monthly payment goes down, the payments extend out into infinity.

I can still remember the first time I decided to buy a house. I went in to get a loan, and after jumping through all the hoops, and signing all the paperwork, I started to ask the loan agent some questions. The house I was buying would end up costing me more than double with the interest payment plan. I woke up one night shortly after I had made an offer on a house. I had just put up the earnest money and started doing my own inspections. I was in a cold sweat, and feeling like I had just sold my soul to the devil. I called the realtor the next day and pulled out of the deal. I never used that mortgage. I decided that if I couldn't do it God's way, I didn't need a house. Less than a year and a half later I was moving into my first home. I owned the home outright. It was a better home in a better neighborhood for less money. I was still trapped though. I ended up buying four more houses before I finally realized that I was just gong to keep on doing this until I died. For what? It's pointless. It's all vanity. Even giving it up is vain. It's just for show if I haven't even got a glimpse of the kingdom.

We think we need to walk in faith because of what's to come, but we can put down something in earnest right now, and it ain't going to cause you to wake up in a cold sweat if you're being convicted. It causes you to sleep like a baby that's just been fed and burped, and wrapped up tight in its crib with a clean, fresh diaper.

My next door neighbor complains because some of the oldsters he bids jobs on want the job done for pennies. What he doesn't understand is that these old guys grew up in the depression. They remember when money used to be worth something; they're kinda living in the past. My next door neighbor is living in fantasy land as well. He doesn't get many jobs anymore. He just can't afford to do the jobs for what people want to pay. So he's going to take a pension that might just last the rest of his life if he doesn't take care of himself. Deep down he knows it, so he drinks and eats junk just to shorten his life so he doesn't run out of what little money he has left.

That sounds pretty bleak, but I'm planting crops, raising chickens and I just noticed that when Jesus says it will be just like the days of Sodom; he says they'll be buying and selling, planting and sowing, giving and taking in marriage. Well other than the marrying part, I'm doing all the rest so I think I'm in serious trouble if I don't figure out how to stop this compulsive gardening, and chicken ranching. I've become addicted to my organic garden and farm fresh free range chickens and eggs. I'm bloated with pride at my self sufficiency, and it's enough to disgust the most self satisfied Pharisees Jesus ever laid eyes on. When I point this stuff out to other people they think I'm being too judgmental. People tell me constantly to stop overthinking it; stop over analyzing it. The problem is that's the way I used to be in my reckless youth. Now, I notice things like being convicted by the Spirit; sometimes on an almost daily basis. I don't much care for it, but it seems to be having a beneficial effect on people around me; just not those who aren't into being convicted. I don't blame them; it's no fun. But playing this game with our funny money ain't any better. The best thing I can come up with is to just get rid of it, especially before it becomes completely worthless. When it reaches it's intrinsic value (zero) some people are going to get the message. I think there will still be plenty that don't though. After all, the whole world is deceived
the $ has already crashed over 99%, and is only maintained by the strongest standing army now.
 

shnarkle

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the $ has already crashed over 99%, and is only maintained by the strongest standing army now.
I think that's a big part of the equation, but ignorance and blind faith also play a role. When the dollar reaches its intrinsic value, if the con game doesn't work, then bullets will be used to persuade us. I suspect they will come up with some disaster or catastrophe to blame the collapse on. Something like computer hackers hacking into the banking system and erasing accounts, or a computer glitch like the one's that happen when it becomes overloaded with too much trading. Sorry, it's all gone. Perhaps something like a war would also work.
 

mjrhealth

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$ Must crash so they can establis a one world currency and govenrment, as we will all need to be at teh same baseline "0".
 

H. Richard

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Wormwood said:
The great commission I was referring to in Matthew 28 was given after the resurrection and the establishment of the new covenant. So, no, Jesus did not give these commands for making disciples under the Law of Moses.


Both the New and Old Testament equates disobedience with unbelief. Grace is not foreign to the Old Testament.


Which is what I said. A person becomes a disciple by hearing, believing, being baptized and walking in faith after the commands of Jesus.
***
A: Jesus gave those commands to the 11 (12) Jews who later made an agreement with Paul that Paul would go to the Gentiles and the 11 (12) to the Jews.

Gal 2:9
9 and when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that had been given to me, they gave me and Barnabas the right hand of fellowship, that we should go to the Gentiles and they to the circumcised.
NKJV

B: Grace is not taught in the 4 gospels. It was law that was taught.

C: I say; A person becomes a disciple by hearing, believing,and walking in faith after the gospel of grace as taught by Paul. The children of God are not under the commandments of the law of Moses.
 

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mjrhealth said:
$ Must crash so they can establis a one world currency and govenrment, as we will all need to be at teh same baseline "0".
i agree with you guys, yet at the same time imo these perspectives postulate a future crash, as a single event, when the dollar has already crashed over 99%. As to the last part there, imo those not of the world would not be in that "we."
 

H. Richard

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mjrhealth said:
$ Must crash so they can establis a one world currency and govenrment, as we will all need to be at teh same baseline "0".
***
The other day I saw a program where people in Africa were using a system that was not about money as such. They each had a cell phone account where they paid an were paid by others by cell phone.

It was a money less system. I think a bank computer kept track of all the transactions.

If this became world wide perhaps this is what is meant by not being able to buy or sell without the mark
 

bbyrd009

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aren't they still using a Central Bank's unit of exchange? So the mark might be more fundamental, iow. The dollar is a promissory note, see; it therefore doesn't matter if i use it physically or electronically, if i am still using it.
 

Zachary

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Well, we can start with one obvious example ...

4 times in John 14, Jesus said that those who love Him will obey His commandments.
Once in John 15, He said that those who are His friends will obey His commandments.

So, may I ask a very disturbing question?
Who is going tp heaven who does NOT love Jesus, and is NOT His friend?
 

H. Richard

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bbyrd009 said:
aren't they still using a Central Bank's unit of exchange? So the mark might be more fundamental, iow. The dollar is a promissory note, see; it therefore doesn't matter if i use it physically or electronically, if i am still using it.
Yes they are but that is not the point. The point is that the bank has COMPLETE control of the buying and selling. There is no money that a person can carry in their own pocket to use for exchange. If those that control the bank should wish to cut you off they could easily do so.

Rev 13:17
17 and that no one may buy or sell except one who has the mark or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
NKJV
 

shnarkle

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***
A: Jesus gave those commands to the 11 (12) Jews who later made an agreement with Paul that Paul would go to the Gentiles and the 11 (12) to the Jews.

Gal 2:9
9 and when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that had been given to me, they gave me and Barnabas the right hand of fellowship, that we should go to the Gentiles and they to the circumcised.
NKJV

B: Grace is not taught in the 4 gospels. It was law that was taught.

C: I say; [background=#f7f7f7]A person becomes a disciple by hearing, believing,and walking in faith after the gospel of grace as taught by Paul. The children of God are not under the commandments of the law of Moses.[/background]
Paul plainly stated that he was "under the law to Christ". He plainly stated that "faith establishes the law". "Do we sin that grace may abound? God forbid!" The penalty of the law may be done away with, but this in no way does away with the obligation to keep God's commandments. Jesus plainly stated that if we love him we will keep his commandments. He "summed up" the commandments with love of God and love of neighbor. To sum is to add them all up and get a total. The total does not negate what was added together.

There is a satanic lie going around. It has been going around for over 2000 years, and states that we are justified by works. There is another just as dangerous satanic lie that states that this was the purpose of the law. This is false. The law was never meant to be a means of justification.

If you love your neighbor as yourself, then you area keeping the law. If you think that this justifies you, or if you think that this documents that you are saved, then Paul would tell you this is a false gospel. You are never going to be justified or saved by loving God or your neighbor. Paul would wholeheartedly agree with this as no one is justified by the works of the law. This doesn't do away with the law. This is a blatant non sequitur.

To say that the doers of the law will be justified is not to say that they will be justified by their works.

Those who seem to believe that the words of Jesus are no longer applicable are going to have a problem when Jesus says that he never knew you. There is no reason for Jesus to tell his disciples not to worry about where their next meal is going to come from if he was only telling them to be willing to forsake all rather than actually forsaking all.

To then conclude that forsaking all means we need to take a vow of poverty or go around begging for food is pure nonsense, and the fear mongering of a convicted soul. Abraham is our prime example. He walked out of his homeland not knowing where he was going. He had no idea what awaited him. If it means poverty, so be it. To be fearful of living in poverty is what is known today as "future tripping". Jesus responds to that fear as well. He says to forget about tomorrow, there's enough to worry about today.
 

shnarkle

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***
The other day I saw a program where people in Africa were using a system that was not about money as such. They each had a cell phone account where they paid an were paid by others by cell phone.

It was a money less system. I think a bank computer kept track of all the transactions.

If this became world wide perhaps this is what is meant by not being able to buy or sell without the mark
This is all just pure deception to get people to think that by refusing to use whatever new technology will save them from taking the mark when we've all taken the mark already. The mark allows us to buy and sell right now. Jesus says it will be just like it was in Sodom. He then goes into the details by pointing out that they will be buying and selling, giving and taking in marriage, planting sowing etc. Other than giving and taking in marriage, I'm just as damned as the next guy. I'm growing my own food. I've got my fruit trees planted, my garden growing, and my chickens laying eggs. I'm also buying and selling. I'm convicted, and I confess I am guilty with my own mouth.

Christ doesn't play favorites with anyone. He doesn't say that he is calling you to be just like your pagan neighbors while calling others to be actual disciples forsaking all for the sake of the kingdom. He plainly states that in order to be his disciple one must forsake all, sell what they have give the money to the poor and follow him wherever it may lead.

For those who live in a first world country this is particularly damning because the only real sacrifice we're making is our reputation by walking away from our jobs, careers, fancy homes, cars etc.

What I'm finding out just now is that I'm not alone. There are others who are seeing that Jesus really means to forsake all. I'm finding out that there are only two Gods in this world the true God, and Mammon.

The really sad thing for me is that I have no excuse because I've seen God's providence with my own eyes over and over again, but then I lose faith and begin to believe that it will run out one day. For those who have never been able to walk in faith, I don't blame anyone for their doubts. Perhaps it will be better for them on Judgement Day.

I believe that the conviction I am under is not hopeless. I believe that being convicted doesn't have to be a death sentence if I can repent and go back to living by God's providence. I haven't collected a pay check in over five years, and it feels good to know that none of my tax dollars are going to fund abortions, munitions to kill innocent women and children, or the reproductive habits of dung beetles. I'm still faithless though because I still retain a safety net of certifications that allow me to go back to work anytime I choose. To let them go would be to take it to the next level.

God is already putting people in my path to help me walk away from my man made salvation and safety nets.
 
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shnarkle

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Nov 10, 2013
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Well, we can start with one obvious example ...

4 times in John 14, Jesus said that those who love Him will obey His commandments.
Once in John 15, He said that those who are His friends will obey His commandments.

So, may I ask a very disturbing question?
Who is going tp heaven who does NOT love Jesus, and is NOT His friend?
Those who are relying on their own means rather than on trusting in God. If Jesus had said to part our hair on the right side, we'd all be parting it on the left and justifying it.

Jesus called his mother "woman". Does anyone know why he didn't refer to her as his mother? For two reason. He was a grown man, and the title was and still is inappropriate in that he was no longer under her supervision. The second reason was that she thought he was nuts. Those who believe and are ready to live a radical new life are our who we truly relate to.
 

Wormwood

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H. Richard said:
***
A: Jesus gave those commands to the 11 (12) Jews who later made an agreement with Paul that Paul would go to the Gentiles and the 11 (12) to the Jews.

Gal 2:9
9 and when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that had been given to me, they gave me and Barnabas the right hand of fellowship, that we should go to the Gentiles and they to the circumcised.
NKJV

B: Grace is not taught in the 4 gospels. It was law that was taught.

C: I say; A person becomes a disciple by hearing, believing,and walking in faith after the gospel of grace as taught by Paul. The children of God are not under the commandments of the law of Moses.
A. There is one Gospel, not two.

B. Grace was present in the OT. Paul makes this very clear in Romans 4. Grace is not a new invention in the NT. Grace has always come to those who had faith...even in the OT. The means by which that grace has been provided is Christ....but its a great error to suggest that grace is absent from the OT.

C. So baptism is not a part of becoming a disciple? Seems to me that Paul understood baptism to be a part of a person's response to the Gospel of Christ:

“Or don’t you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death?” (Romans 6:3, NIV84)

“having been buried with him in baptism and raised with him through your faith in the power of God, who raised him from the dead.” (Colossians 2:12, NIV84)

“for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ.” (Galatians 3:27, NIV84)