What do you think was God`s Purpose in making - the Nations, Israel and the Body of Christ?

[Marilyn C]

Of course, as Adam said…she had to “become the mother of everyone living”. (Gen 3:20)

As ancient servants of God proved faithful and obedient, even when God asked difficult things of them….what excuse did Israel have? It wasn’t that they had no good examples….

Noah was asked to build an enormous structure by hand, with rudimentary tools to save his family and all the animal kinds that God brought to Noah for preservation. He alone was a man of faith at that time when demonic interference had ruined everything, and this made God feel regret that he had created them.
So he took care of the problem and started again….with a clean slate.

Abraham was asked to sacrifice his son, which he attempted to carry out, but God stopped him, telling him he had passed the test.

Job had to undergo trails what no human should ever have had to endure….but he passed the test and kept his faith, leaving us a model to follow. How many of us will ever have to undergo what Job did?

Moses was told to go the the leader of a world empire, seen as a god to the Egyptians, but he courageously did as God asked him to, and after ten displays of Jehovah’s mighty power, he led Israel out of slavery and eventually into the Promised Land….but it was always through disobedience and punishments that God kept them going. Even in their 40 years in the wilderness, God fed them and provided water for millions of them. Their clothing and shoes never wore out and eventually, after serving their time, they crossed the Jordan into the Promised Land…but what awaited them? More trouble which became their middle name.

God’s covenants had conditions and Israel failed them, rendering the contract null and void….only because of his promise to Abraham did God keep them in existence, until they had produced his Messiah…it was all downhill from there. After Jesus sentenced the religious leaders to “Gehenna” only a “remnant” of natural Israel were found worthy of the Kingdom.…as it was prophesied.

You have a misguided view of Israel if you think that the nation of today has any further part in God’s purpose for the future. They have much blood on their hands and alliances with nations whose worship they despise. (Isa 1:15) There is no saving natural Israel…..God chose a replacement…spiritual Israelite. (Gal 6:16)


I won’t hold my breath waiting for that….they murdered their Messiah and Jesus served the same God that they did. (Acts 4:27) To this day Jews reject Jesus as Messiah. Having encountered Jewish posters on other sites, I can tell you that many to this day have very strong negative feelings about Jesus, having denied him for so long, it is hard to imagine the whole nation now turning to him…it would be like having a love fest with Hamas.

True…the body of Christ is one united brotherhood found globally in every nation, all have “one Lord, one faith, one baptism”. The disunited church system produced by Christendom, has a dismembered body that is carved up among many denominations who do not all believe the same truth.

The body of Christ are the rulers and priests in the kingdom (Rev 20:6)….they will have earthly subjects…(Rev 21:2-4) bringing redeemed mankind back into reconciliation with their Creator, restoring God’s first purpose for the human race on this carefully, and lovingly prepared planet….and reinstating everlasting life in paradise for them. It’s a wonderful hope, no matter whether you are heaven bound or earth bound….we will love the life that God has given us.

Hi AJ,

Lots of good comments there, thank you. Good detail. Only one point - So, Israel can defeat God`s purpose for them? Of course not. Anything and everything are only fulfilled by Jesus. No man, nation, or angel can stop this or fulfill God`s purposes.

 

[Aunty Jane]

Only one point - So, Israel can defeat God`s purpose for them? Of course not. Anything and everything are only fulfilled by Jesus. No man, nation, or angel can stop this or fulfill God`s purposes.

You have ignored the choosing of a new nation to serve God’s interests on earth. “The Israel of God” spoken about by the apostle Paul (Gal 6:16) was made up of both Jewish and gentile Christians……and this was written after those gentiles were accepted into the Christian arrangement, as it was promised to Abraham hundreds of years before. It was never just about the Jews. Tell me please how many good things are written about them compared to the serious wrongs they committed? How many times did they fall into false idol worship, and how many times did God punish them for their disobedience? His patience has limits.

No man, nation or angel can alter God’s arrangements except God…..and he did in this case. He chose a nation to produce his Messiah, but because these ones could never keep a covenant of any kind, once they had fulfilled their role, he abandoned them, (Matt 23:37-39) and chose a new ”Israel”…..a united spiritual body of Christians who would remain faithful to God until the second coming. They have always existed but were few in number as the devil created his “weeds” to take over the world with a false Christianity that holds to no teachings of Jesus at all. It‘s all a facade, because satan has captured the majority who claim to be “Christians”. (Matt 7:13-14) When Jesus returns as judge of all, only “few” will be found on the road to life. What does that say about the majority? (Matt 7:21-23)

New Jerusalem is “heavenly” not earthly. (Heb 12:22)

 

[Marilyn C]

You have ignored the choosing of a new nation to serve God’s interests on earth. “The Israel of God” spoken about by the apostle Paul (Gal 6:16) was made up of both Jewish and gentile Christians……and this was written after those gentiles were accepted into the Christian arrangement, as it was promised to Abraham hundreds of years before. It was never just about the Jews. Tell me please how many good things are written about them compared to the serious wrongs they committed? How many times did they fall into false idol worship, and how many times did God punish them for their disobedience? His patience has limits.

No man, nation or angel can alter God’s arrangements except God…..and he did in this case. He chose a nation to produce his Messiah, but because these ones could never keep a covenant of any kind, once they had fulfilled their role, he abandoned them, (Matt 23:37-39) and chose a new ”Israel”…..a united spiritual body of Christians who would remain faithful to God until the second coming. They have always existed but were few in number as the devil created his “weeds” to take over the world with a false Christianity that holds to no teachings of Jesus at all. It‘s all a facade, because satan has captured the majority who claim to be “Christians”. (Matt 7:13-14) When Jesus returns as judge of all, only “few” will be found on the road to life. What does that say about the majority? (Matt 7:21-23)

New Jerusalem is “heavenly” not earthly. (Heb 12:22)

God is omniscient and knew that Israel (or mankind, us included) could never be obedient to Him. Thus, Jesus fulfills all of God`s purposes and they will unfold as promised.

Matt. 23: 37 - 39 refers to the nation of Israel at the time of Jesus. The rulership of God through them was taken away and God will give it to those of Israel who look to Him at the end of the trib. (Zech. 12: 10 13: 8 Malachi 3: 16 & 17)

The Body of Christ is not the new Israel. Remember there is no Jew or Gentile. Gal. 6: 16 says -

`And as many as walk according to this rule, peace and mercy be upon them AND upon the Israel of God.`

Separate groups there.

Now saying that Satan has captured the majority of Christians, is giving the Lord a bad report card. The Lord is well able to build and mature His Body by His Holy Spirit. The religious denominations on the other hand are going or already in error.

Your scriptures Matt. 7: 13 - 14 & 21 - 23 are to do with Israel not the Body of Christ which was not revealed until Jesus ascended and revealed it to Paul. (Eph. 3: 2 - 6)


I agree that the city the New Jerusalem is a heavenly city and will come down out of the third heaven to the Universal area and bring light to the earth. (Rev. 21: 2 & 24)

 

[Hiddenthings]

You have ignored the choosing of a new nation to serve God’s interests on earth. “The Israel of God” spoken about by the apostle Paul (Gal 6:16) was made up of both Jewish and gentile Christians……and this was written after those gentiles were accepted into the Christian arrangement, as it was promised to Abraham hundreds of years before. It was never just about the Jews. Tell me please how many good things are written about them compared to the serious wrongs they committed? How many times did they fall into false idol worship, and how many times did God punish them for their disobedience? His patience has limits.

No man, nation or angel can alter God’s arrangements except God…..and he did in this case. He chose a nation to produce his Messiah, but because these ones could never keep a covenant of any kind, once they had fulfilled their role, he abandoned them, (Matt 23:37-39) and chose a new ”Israel”…..a united spiritual body of Christians who would remain faithful to God until the second coming. They have always existed but were few in number as the devil created his “weeds” to take over the world with a false Christianity that holds to no teachings of Jesus at all. It‘s all a facade, because satan has captured the majority who claim to be “Christians”. (Matt 7:13-14) When Jesus returns as judge of all, only “few” will be found on the road to life. What does that say about the majority? (Matt 7:21-23)

New Jerusalem is “heavenly” not earthly. (Heb 12:22)

Comón Jane you know we have proven this many times and you have a lot of dead ends in your theology.

"For I say to you (disobedient Jews!), you shall see me no more till you say, ‘Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord!’” Matt 23:39

Two inferences the Lord makes

1. They will see him again!
2. They will say " ‘Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord!’

The question you need to ask is when, and how?

AND WHERE?

 

[Aunty Jane]

God is omniscient and knew that Israel (or mankind, us included) could never be obedient to Him. Thus, Jesus fulfills all of God`s purposes and they will unfold as promised.

But we have many examples in the Bible of those of God’s people who did obey their God and even under extreme circumstances….what was the point of giving Israel a law that no one could keep? It was a constant reminder of their need for a savior. Their animal sacrifices were not really anything but a poor substitute, reflecting the pernament value of Christ’s blood, compared with the temporary value of animal sacrifices.

Matt. 23: 37 - 39 refers to the nation of Israel at the time of Jesus. The rulership of God through them was taken away and God will give it to those of Israel who look to Him at the end of the trib. (Zech. 12: 10 13: 8 Malachi 3: 16 & 17)

For a fact, Israel was basically abandoned by God some 300 years before Christ came. He had not sent a prophet to his wayward people for hundreds of years because he knew that they were incorrigible. The last prophet he sent was his own son but still they showed no obedience even to him. Jesus gave a parable in Luke 20:9-18 that illustrates the point and the ultimate fate of his son’s enemies.

Now saying that Satan has captured the majority of Christians, is giving the Lord a bad report card.

It’s what the Bible says….not me. (1 John 5:19) What part of the “whole world” is untouched by him?

The Lord is well able to build and mature His Body by His Holy Spirit. The religious denominations on the other hand are going or already in error.

Which is why his elect are no part of the disunited religions of Christendom.

Your scriptures Matt. 7: 13 - 14 & 21 - 23 are to do with Israel not the Body of Christ which was not revealed until Jesus ascended and revealed it to Paul. (Eph. 3: 2 - 6)

The scriptures in Matt 7 are part of Jesus’ Sermon on the Mount and he is speaking there about the time of judgment…..a time when those who claim Jesus as their Lord will find him rejecting them as those he “never knew”. These are definitely NOT “the body of Christ” who are no part of the counterfeit “Christianity” that Jesus said would be planted by the devil. The “weeds” of Jesus’ parable have been gaining ground ever since the death of the apostles….the “wheat” are not uprooted with the weeds when the harvest is carried out.…they are separated at that time and are placed in the master’s storehouse.

I agree that the city the New Jerusalem is a heavenly city and will come down out of the third heaven to the Universal area and bring light to the earth. (Rev. 21: 2 & 24)

Yes, “heavenly Jerusalem” will rule earthly subjects, those redeemed by Christ’s sacrifice.….but there will be no geographical location, nor will there ever be an earthly Temple again…..
Jesus said that the time was coming when there would be no earthly locations for God’s worship. Since Christianity is no longer a geographically local religion, it’s rule from heaven will encompass the whole earth.

Jesus told the Samaritan woman…in John 4:21-24….
”Believe me, woman, the hour is coming when neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem will you worship the Father. 22 You worship what you do not know; we worship what we know, because salvation begins with the Jews. 23 Nevertheless, the hour is coming, and it is now, when the true worshippers will worship the Father with spirit and truth, for indeed, the Father is looking for ones like these to worship him. 24 God is a Spirit, and those worshipping him must worship with spirit and truth.”

Salvation began with the Jews but it will not finish with them….you have the wrong “Israel”….

 

[Aunty Jane]

Comón Jane you know we have proven this many times and you have a lot of dead ends in your theology.

You’re funny….you have not proven a thing to me by Scripture, and your own theology to me has many dead ends as well….suggestions are not facts and this is all you offer. It’s true because you say so….sorry, that doesn't wash with me…..I believe that you are dead wrong.

"For I say to you (disobedient Jews!), you shall see me no more till you say, ‘Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord!’” Matt 23:39

Two inferences the Lord makes

1. They will see him again!
2. They will say " ‘Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord!’

The question you need to ask is when, and how?

AND WHERE?

If I said to someone stubborn that they weren’t going to see me again UNTIL they did as I told them…..what if they don’t give a damn? What if “until” never comes because of a proven stubbornness?…..as it will with literal Israel.
They as a nation will NEVER “BLESS THE ONE WHO COMES IN THE NAME OF THE LORD” because they stopped serving that God a very long time ago.

They proved throughout their entire history that they could never do as they were told…what makes you think they will now? God gave up on them…and chose a new “Israel”….the Israel of old are gone and the Israel of today are more interested in bloodshed than they are in obeying a God they have never served in faith.

Don’t hold your breath….you are barking up the wrong tree…

 

[Hiddenthings]

You’re funny….you have not proven a thing to me by Scripture, and your own theology to me has many dead ends as well….suggestions are not facts and this is all you offer. It’s true because you say so….sorry, that doesn't wash with me…..I believe that you are dead wrong.

We've had many discussions where you have overlooked the prophets, even though you know their prophecies, as stated in Acts, will ultimately be fulfilled in the future. As Acts 3:21 says, "whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began."

If I said to someone stubborn that they weren’t going to see me again UNTIL they did as I told them…..what if they don’t give a damn? What if “until” never comes because of a proven stubbornness?…..as it will with literal Israel.

Jane, it is this type of woeful reading of the Word which has you ignorant of the Mystery spoken of by Paul. It's a failure on your part to know the times and seasons in which you live. Take your above musings and now look at what is truth!

Matthew 23:39, where Jesus says: "For I say to you, you shall see me no more till you say, ‘Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord!’” (NKJV)

The crowd uttered these same words as he rode into the city!

Quoting Psalm 118:26 says: "Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord; We have blessed you from the house of the Lord."

If you truly understood this, Jane, you wouldn't be able to downplay these words or events. But since you don't understand and choose not to, you remain in ignorance.

And what of Matt 21:9? yet not understanding as he prophesied they would do it again at his second coming!

Matthew 21:9 says: "Then the multitudes who went before and those who followed cried out, saying: ‘Hosanna to the Son of David! Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord! Hosanna in the highest!’"

And again Matt 23:38 – 39

"See! Your house is left to you desolate. For I say to you, you shall see me no more until you say, ‘Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord!’" (NKJV)

They said it once Jane!!
They will say it again, as prophesied!!!

They as a nation will NEVER “BLESS THE ONE WHO COMES IN THE NAME OF THE LORD” because they stopped serving that God a very long time ago.

Speaking from ignorance once again...this is a sign isn't of one who has not got ears to hear what the Spirit says.

They proved throughout their entire history that they could never do as they were told…what makes you think they will now? God gave up on them…and chose a new “Israel”….the Israel of old are gone and the Israel of today are more interested in bloodshed than they are in obeying a God they have never served in faith.

Don’t hold your breath….you are barking up the wrong tree…

And yet you know and not once have you spoken to Jeremiah 31 and the New Covenant which He will write on their hearts.

31:29 “When that time comes, people will no longer say, ‘The parents have eaten sour grapes, but the children’s teeth have grown numb.’ 31:30 Rather, each person will die for his own sins. The teeth of the person who eats the sour grapes will themselves grow numb. 31:31 “Indeed, a time is coming,” says the Lord, “when I will make a new covenant with the people of Israel and Judah. 31:32 It will not be like the old covenant that I made with their ancestors when I delivered them from Egypt. For they violated that covenant, even though I was like a faithful husband to them,” says the Lord. 31:33 “But I will make a new covenant with the whole nation of Israel after I plant them back in the land,” says the Lord. “I will put my law within them and write it on their hearts and minds. I will be their God and they will be my people. 31:34 “People will no longer need to teach their neighbors and relatives to know me. For all of them, from the least important to the most important, will know me,” says the Lord. “For I will forgive their sin and will no longer call to mind the wrong they have done.” Je 31:29–34.

Wow Jane, I have found your evasiveness highly interesting to watch as I know you are bound by the beliefs of a body who walked away from the Prophets teaching and took to themselves their own prophets.

Facts:

1. God will write the NC on their hearts as He has stated! Your God fails...mine does not!
2. It is not speaking to the OC!
3. These Jews will be broken in spirit and will be refined and purged of their gods and disobedience
4. Christ will be their King as promised to his father David (on earth)
5. All of them will be taught of the true Saints (Jer 3:15) who understand the true Gospel of God with Power.

Only then will you see the Israel & the Gentiles fullfill the saying in Matthew 19:30, Mark 10:31, and Luke 13:30 "But many who are first will be last, and the last first."

I know that you will witness these things fulfilled, and when you do, remember our conversations.

I know you have no answers to these Scriptures, because your body has written over them in their own hand.

 

[Hiddenthings]

@Aunty Jane

You said they would never say it! I showed you the first occurrence
You will say they will never say it a second time - I have showed you they will!

Can you see the pattern?

Please do me a favor Jane.

Go and read the remaining verses of Psalms 118:26 - 29

Is this your God or not?

If yes, you have your answer...if no, you are none of His

 

[Marilyn C]

But we have many examples in the Bible of those of God’s people who did obey their God and even under extreme circumstances….what was the point of giving Israel a law that no one could keep? It was a constant reminder of their need for a savior. Their animal sacrifices were not really anything but a poor substitute, reflecting the pernament value of Christ’s blood, compared with the temporary value of animal sacrifices.

For a fact, Israel was basically abandoned by God some 300 years before Christ came. He had not sent a prophet to his wayward people for hundreds of years because he knew that they were incorrigible. The last prophet he sent was his own son but still they showed no obedience even to him. Jesus gave a parable in Luke 20:9-18 that illustrates the point and the ultimate fate of his son’s enemies.

It’s what the Bible says….not me. (1 John 5:19) What part of the “whole world” is untouched by him?

Which is why his elect are no part of the disunited religions of Christendom.

The scriptures in Matt 7 are part of Jesus’ Sermon on the Mount and he is speaking there about the time of judgment…..a time when those who claim Jesus as their Lord will find him rejecting them as those he “never knew”. These are definitely NOT “the body of Christ” who are no part of the counterfeit “Christianity” that Jesus said would be planted by the devil. The “weeds” of Jesus’ parable have been gaining ground ever since the death of the apostles….the “wheat” are not uprooted with the weeds when the harvest is carried out.…they are separated at that time and are placed in the master’s storehouse.

Yes, “heavenly Jerusalem” will rule earthly subjects, those redeemed by Christ’s sacrifice.….but there will be no geographical location, nor will there ever be an earthly Temple again…..
Jesus said that the time was coming when there would be no earthly locations for God’s worship. Since Christianity is no longer a geographically local religion, it’s rule from heaven will encompass the whole earth.

Jesus told the Samaritan woman…in John 4:21-24….
”Believe me, woman, the hour is coming when neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem will you worship the Father. 22 You worship what you do not know; we worship what we know, because salvation begins with the Jews. 23 Nevertheless, the hour is coming, and it is now, when the true worshippers will worship the Father with spirit and truth, for indeed, the Father is looking for ones like these to worship him. 24 God is a Spirit, and those worshipping him must worship with spirit and truth.”

Salvation began with the Jews but it will not finish with them….you have the wrong “Israel”….

The whole Tabernacle & Temple with its furnishing and rituals show in great detail Christ`s character and His Mediatorial work as High Priest. The Laws were to reveal to Israel their inadequacy and was the schoolmaster to lead them to Christ.

Luke 20: 9 - 18 reveal the blindness of that generation that was when Jesus was on earth.

I agree as to man`s denominations - man made.

Jesus` sermon on the Mount was to the Jews. There was no Body of Christ then and no knowledge of such a group.

I believe God is not stopped by man, Israel, religious denominations or angels. God is supreme and will accomplish all He has purposed for the Nations, for Israel and for the Body of Christ all through Jesus.

 

[Hiddenthings]

@Marilyn C

Interesting that they professed this blessing (Ps 118) upon Christ "from" a desolate house. (Matthew 21:9)

"See! Your house is left to you desolate. For I say to you, you shall see me no more until you say, ‘Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord!’" (NKJV)

God was no longer present in their house because it was made no longer His!

However!

"See! Your house is left to you desolate. For I say to you, you shall see me no more until you say, ‘Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord!’" (NKJV)

They will fulfill Psalm 118's blessing when they profess it from God's House and will be pronounced through Christ in the Lord’s temple! Ps 118:26.

@Aunty Jane doesn't realize the prophecy hasn't been fulfilled yet - she can't because for her God has cast off His people and her temple is in Heaven.

How terrible would it be to have Jane's faith and hope only to find the body you belonged to discard all the important prophecies for their own?

It's a stern warning for any religious community who seeks to make Gods Word / house their own!