What does the bible say happens when you die

[Robert Gwin]

I do not believe what you say is to be taken seriously. Out of one side of your mouth you claim Jesus gave the story of Lazarus and the rich man in Luke 16 for a reason, and out of the other side of your mouth you DENY those parameters... in the story as actual. Even when someone gives a story or analogy they most often use objects that actually exist. That is how you are denying that Luke 16 Scripture. So good luck on that deception.

What I deny is your understanding of it Davy, you even take it literally when is is actually a parable. Clearly it can not be literal for several reasons, Abraham is not Jehovah, and Jesus had not yet died, so if Abraham and Lazarus was literally living at the time in heaven, they had to be resurrected, so that kind of nullifies the sacrifice right? So then if it is literal, what is your explanation of why Jesus came here?

 

[Phoneman777]

I fully agree Pman, salvation is conditional, and always has been. We have been subject to God's laws since the creation of Adam.

Yes, and I don't see why the OSAS crowd fights this truth. It's no different than promising to never share your marriage bed with another, either behind her back, or worse - in her full view. Since God sees everything, there's only one reason "Christians" indulge impenitent, presumptuous sin and don't care Who sees it: they don't love Him.

Sadly, they refuse to differentiate between the "Just Man" who can be assured of grace and the "Presumptuous Man" who is unaware that the ties he thinks bind him to Christ are merely ropes of sand - because their outward actions reveal their inward, wretched condition.

 

[MatthewG]

As a Christian it’s my choice not to judge what people do, or believe for that matter. You can warn them of the harms of what can happen but in the end it’s their own choice. To look, point and judge is not my job. To love, have mercy, by the spirit is what a Christian is called to do by the heart. Yet many assume the judges chair, not to say I’m not guilty of hate in my heart and have sat judging others: it’s been a learning process to die to myself, in Christ and being raised to newness of life, to live by the spirit.

 

[MatthewG]

According to Jesus when a person dies they are resurrected to either life or condemnation, it’s no one’s choice to make but God who judges fairly and weight the content of the heart of an individual. Even wretched people who done evil acts can have their heart moved by the spirit when they look towards God who is higher than all of us. God had two places set up, those who go inside the kingdom and those who go outside, according to John in the book of Revelation.

 

[Davy]

What I deny is your understanding of it Davy, ...

Nah, you deny that the parameters of the story Jesus gave are false, which is basically calling Lord Jesus a liar. He would not mislead us by giving us false objects in that story about Lazarus and the rich man, regardless of whether or not Lazarus and the rich man were fictitious. So you really need to straighten out your mind on how Lord Jesus taught in His Word.

 

[MatthewG]

The Parable of Rich Man and Lazarus is simply a parable, anyway hell is done away with according to the Bible though most people do not believe it, but it’s recorded in Revelation 20. Which is the end of the material religion, and judgement of those in the contents and context those who were held in hell dropped out and judged. With revelation 21-22 being pictures of the afterlife to learn about and from.

 

[Robert Gwin]

Yes, and I don't see why the OSAS crowd fights this truth. It's no different than promising to never share your marriage bed with another, either behind her back, or worse - in her full view. Since God sees everything, there's only one reason "Christians" indulge impenitent, presumptuous sin and don't care Who sees it: they don't love Him.

Sadly, they refuse to differentiate between the "Just Man" who can be assured of grace and the "Presumptuous Man" who is unaware that the ties he thinks bind him to Christ are merely ropes of sand - because their outward actions reveal their inward, wretched condition.

Yes sir I do believe you know why, the answer is found in 2 Cor 4:4. Someone said to me a couple of days back there are now 45,000 "Christian" sects, of course those who break away from the faith and teach falsehoods are not accepted by God Acts 20:29,30. They no longer speak in agreement 1 Cor 1:10

 

[Phoneman777]

Nah, you deny that the parameters of the story Jesus gave are false, which is basically calling Lord Jesus a liar.

There's a huge difference between a deceptive lie and a parabolic warning to the Jewish nation. A blind man can see Jesus is speaking in parable, using scenarios which defy truths HE HIMSELF established elsewhere in Scripture and which exclude from reality the elements of His parable, such as that dead people:

• travel back to warn others (Job 7:10 KJV) (Ecclesiastes 9:6 KJV)
• talk (Psalms 115:17 KJV)
• see (Psalms 88:12 KJV) (Job 10:21-22 KJV)
• know (Ecclesiastes 9:5 KJV)
• experience emotions (Ecclesiastes 9:6 KJV)
• demonstrate wisdom (Ecclesiastes 9:10 KJV)
• remember (Psalms 88:11-12 KJV) (Ecclesiastes 9:5 KJV) (Psalms 6:5 KJV)
• strategize (Ecclesiastes 9:10 KJV)
• all sit together in Abraham's bosom (how big can Abraham's bosom be?)
• are punished before the Judgment (2 Peter 2:9 KJV)
• possess bodies before the resurrection (2 Corinthians 5:1-4 KJV) (Job 19:25-27 KJV)

 

[Phoneman777]

Yes sir I do believe you know why, the answer is found in 2 Cor 4:4. Someone said to me a couple of days back there are now 45,000 "Christian" sects, of course those who break away from the faith and teach falsehoods are not accepted by God Acts 20:29,30. They no longer speak in agreement 1 Cor 1:10

My favorite preacher was once an administrator at one of our many schools around the world and a young blonde girl came into his office dressed ultra worldly and sat down and proceeded to complain that she couldn't see what was wrong with this and that and other things, until finally he finally interrupted her and said:

"I know what your problem is..." and spun his Bible around on his desk and proceeded to quote for her 2 Corinthians 4:3-4 KJV as he traced it with his finger. When he finished, he said:

"I know exactly what your problem is. The reason why you can't see it because YOU'RE LOST. So, now that we know what your problem is, forget about all what you came in here to complain about and let's focus on your problem".

He said she left thinking very differently - a prime example of a mature response to Holy Spirit conviction instead of childishly resisting and insisting on being saved on your own rebellious terms

 

[Adam]

The Rich Man and Lazarus can only be a parable and the symbols contained therein require interpretation to get their true meaning...unless you're going to insist that:

>Abraham's chest is literally miles wide to accommodate the residence of all the saints who've died.

I laughed at this, but in fact I truly am baffled that there are people who think that the "bosom of Abraham" is a literal place.

The parable is about a poor diseased man who starved to death at a rich man's door watching him party. As the poor man and the rich man are in the afterlife, it is obvious that the poor man was traumatized by his horrible experiences on Earth and Abraham was holding him and comforting him.

 

[Davy]

There's a huge difference between a deceptive lie and a parabolic warning to the Jewish nation. A blind man can see Jesus is speaking in parable, using scenarios which defy truths HE HIMSELF established elsewhere in Scripture and which exclude from reality the elements of His parable, such as that dead people:

According to unbelievers, what Jesus said here about the existence of Paradise was a lie also...

Luke 23:42-43
42 And he said unto Jesus, "Lord, remember me when Thou comest into Thy kingdom."
43 And Jesus said unto him, "Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with Me in paradise."
KJV

 

[Robert Gwin]

My favorite preacher was once an administrator at one of our many schools around the world and a young blonde girl came into his office dressed ultra worldly and sat down and proceeded to complain that she couldn't see what was wrong with this and that and other things, until finally he finally interrupted her and said:

"I know what your problem is..." and spun his Bible around on his desk and proceeded to quote for her 2 Corinthians 4:3-4 KJV as he traced it with his finger. When he finished, he said:

"I know exactly what your problem is. The reason why you can't see it because YOU'RE LOST. So, now that we know what your problem is, forget about all what you came in here to complain about and let's focus on your problem".

He said she left thinking very differently - a prime example of a mature response to Holy Spirit conviction instead of childishly resisting and insisting on being saved on your own rebellious terms

That's nice, but what does it have to do with our conversation sir? Are you saying you disagree with my reply?

 

[Phoneman777]

According to unbelievers, what Jesus said here about the existence of Paradise was a lie also...

Luke 23:42-43
42 And he said unto Jesus, "Lord, remember me when Thou comest into Thy kingdom."
43 And Jesus said unto him, "Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with Me in paradise."
KJV

The comma isn't inspired, but if we insist on placing one, it goes before the word "today" because neither Jesus nor the thief went to Paradise that Friday.

"Verily I say unto thee today, shalt thou be with Me in paradise". ​

It's a future promise fulfilled only at the Second Coming when Jesus takes off His high priestly garments and comes for us "when Thou comest into Thy kingdom" wearing His royal robe and vestments.

 

[Phoneman777]

That's nice, but what does it have to do with our conversation sir? Are you saying you disagree with my reply?

Not at all - you mentioned 2 Corinthians 4:4 and it reminded me of that story.

 

[Davy]

The comma isn't inspired, but if we insist on placing one, it goes before the word "today" because neither Jesus nor the thief went to Paradise that Friday.

"Verily I say unto thee today, shalt thou be with Me in paradise". ​

It's a future promise fulfilled only at the Second Coming when Jesus takes off His high priestly garments and comes for us "when Thou comest into Thy kingdom" wearing His royal robe and vestments.

Like I said, according to UNBELIEVERS, they treat that Luke 23:43 Scripture of Jesus saying the malefactor would be with Him in Paradise that day, as a lie.

All you did was confirm your place with those unbelievers.

 

[Phoneman777]

Like I said, according to UNBELIEVERS, they treat that Luke 23:43 Scripture of Jesus saying the malefactor would be with Him in Paradise that day, as a lie.

All you did was confirm your place with those unbelievers.

Of course I'm a believer, as I'm sure you are too. So, come now, let's reason together:

1. Scripture says the Tree of Life is in the midst of Paradise and stands above the River of Life which flows from the Father's throne (Revelation 2:7 KJV; Revelation 22:1-2 KJV).

2.Therefore, Paradise is UP, not down.

3. Since Jesus said Sunday morning "I have not yet ascended to My Father", the only place He went on Friday was the grave, and the only thing that went to Paradise on Friday was Jesus' spirit, which returns to God exactly as IT was when IT issued forth from God the moment any creature dies, whether a saint, sinner, or beast (Ecclesiastes 3:19-21 KJV; Ecclesiastes 12:7 KJV).

In the light of the above testimony of Scripture, what do you think?

 

[Robert Gwin]

Not at all - you mentioned 2 Corinthians 4:4 and it reminded me of that story.

Aah! I understand now, sorry for not grasping that sooner Pman. Thanks for clarifying it sir.

 

[GRACE ambassador]

op: "What Does The Bible Say happens at death?":
This does not seem to be of much interest to some youngsters, but I am
getting old, so it is Important to me - I find What Saith The Scripture?:

"...the body without the spirit is dead..." (Jam 2:26)​

1) When the body is dead, it becomes ignorant and hence
"knows not anything" (Ecc 9:5), "returning to dust" (Ecc 12:7):

2) "the spirit returns (from the body) back to God Who Gave it"
(Ecc 12:7)

3) "the soul departs" (Gen 35:16-19):

a) UNbelievers' souls go to the "place of torment, having vision,​

speech, feeling, and remembering everything" (Luk 16:19-31)​

​

"across the great fixed gulf":​

​

b) Believers (previously) went to "paradise (in the earth) =​

Abraham's bosom"...​

​

c) ...(But now), for believers, Under God's Grace!:

In Christ's Revelation Of The Mystery To Paul, He Teaches:

"For to me to live is Christ, and to die IS GAIN!" (Philippians 1:21)
+
"For I am in a strait betwixt two, having a desire to DEPART {soul},
And To Be WITH CHRIST; which IS FAR BETTER!" (Philippians 1:23)
+
"Now He that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, Who
also hath given unto us The Earnest of The Spirit. Therefore we are
always Confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body,
we are absent from The LORD: ( For we walk by faith, not by sight: )

We are Confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body,
and to be Present With The LORD!" (2 Corinthians 5:5-8) Where?:

"...Paradise in The Third Heaven!..." (2Co 12:1-4)
----------------------------------
Oh LORD, I pray that all would be willing And Always have This
Confidence That Ye Have Assured us, about our Departure, From
Thy Precious Word Of Truth. Amen.

Grace, Peace, And JOY In Christ, And In His Word Of Truth, Rightly Divided!

 

[Davy]

Of course I'm a believer, as I'm sure you are too. So, come now, let's reason together:

1. Scripture says the Tree of Life is in the midst of Paradise and stands above the River of Life which flows from the Father's throne (Revelation 2:7 KJV; Revelation 22:1-2 KJV).

2.Therefore, Paradise is UP, not down.

3. Since Jesus said Sunday morning "I have not yet ascended to My Father", the only place He went on Friday was the grave, and the only thing that went to Paradise on Friday was Jesus' spirit, which returns to God exactly as IT was when IT issued forth from God the moment any creature dies, whether a saint, sinner, or beast (Ecclesiastes 3:19-21 KJV; Ecclesiastes 12:7 KJV).

In the light of the above testimony of Scripture, what do you think?

Either you believe what Jesus said to the malefactor, or you don't.

You have already confirmed in your earlier post that you don't believe what Jesus said to the malefactor that he would be with Him in Paradise that day, as written.

Now then, since God's Word is not some ISOLATION GAME like many try to play, showing their Biblical illiteracy, then is there OTHER SCRIPTURE that supports what Jesus said would happen on that day upon the cross? YES! There is other Scripture support!

In 1 Peter 3 and 1 Peter 4, Apostle Peter revealed that at Jesus' resurrection He went and preached The Gospel to the "spirits in prison", in the heavenly. And 1 Peter 4 says The Gospel was preached to the 'dead' so they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit. That event was actually prophecy in Isaiah 42:7 that Jesus would lead the prisoners out of darkness of the prison house (heavenly prison).

In Luke 16, Lord Jesus gave us the story of Lazarus and the rich man, both having died and their bodies buried, and Lazarus is taken by angels to the bosom of Abraham in Paradise, and the rich man is taken to the other side in hell. A great fixed gulf border is revealed there in Paradise so neither can change sides. Thus in Paradise, there are 2 different sides one can go to per the parameters in Lord Jesus' story.

In 2 Corinthians 12, Apostle Paul speaks of a man he knew that was 'caught up' to Paradise, to the third heaven (3rd heaven world age, not 3rd level like in some Buddhist belief). Paul no doubt was speaking of himself, because at one time he was stoned and left for dead. Paul said he did not know whether that happened 'in the body', or 'out of the body', but that God knew. How that happened is that Paul's spirit was caught up to Paradise in the heavenly realm, and it was there that he heard words not lawful to utter.

Now then, along with that understanding must come how The Bible also reveals that we are NOT flesh only, but that we also have a spirit with soul inside our flesh body, and the flesh is a separate operation from our spirit-soul. Apostle Paul went into great detail about that too with explaining the type of body the resurrection is. So really, we have no excuse in not understanding these things, and how it was possible for the malefactor's spirit to go to Paradise with Jesus after they had died upon the cross.

 

[Phoneman777]

Either you believe what Jesus said to the malefactor, or you don't. \You have already confirmed in your earlier post that you don't believe what Jesus said to the malefactor that he would be with Him in Paradise that day, as written.

I've confirmed no such ridiculous thing. On the contrary, I've already shown you that the comma goes AFTER the word "today", which harmonizes the verse with the rest of Scripture, but you and the rest of your deluded Immortal Soul podnas insist on putting the comma BEFORE "today" which causes total confusion.

The KJV translators get a pass due to over 1,000 years of Catholicism's lies. Protestantism separated 500 years ago, so no such pass for you.

Now then, since God's Word is not some ISOLATION GAME like many try to play, showing their Biblical illiteracy, then is there OTHER SCRIPTURE that supports what Jesus said would happen on that day upon the cross? YES! There is other Scripture support!

Bring 'em on.

In 1 Peter 3 and 1 Peter 4, Apostle Peter revealed that at Jesus' resurrection He went and preached The Gospel to the "spirits in prison", in the heavenly.

CONTEXT. Time after time, you all deviate from context and is why you end up in compounded delusion. The CONTEXT makes "spirits in prison" refer to the ANTEDILUVIANS who were trapped in the "prison house of sin" to whom the Spirit of Jesus preached 120 years before the "flood came and took them all away".
CONTEXT.

And 1 Peter 4 says The Gospel was preached to the 'dead' so they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit. That event was actually prophecy in Isaiah 42:7 that Jesus would lead the prisoners out of darkness of the prison house (heavenly prison).

Yes, the Gospel was preached to them that are dead.
I gave my grandparents Christmas gifts. They died years later.
I once gave gifts to them that are dead.

When is comes Scripture saying the dead don't know, see, speak, praise God, interact with the living, etc., can you see where my interpretation is Biblically harmonious while yours is anything but?

In Luke 16, Lord Jesus gave us the story of Lazarus and the rich man, both having died and their bodies buried, and Lazarus is taken by angels to the bosom of Abraham in Paradise, and the rich man is taken to the other side in hell. A great fixed gulf border is revealed there in Paradise so neither can change sides. Thus in Paradise, there are 2 different sides one can go to per the parameters in Lord Jesus' story.

You can't base a doctrine on an uninterpreted parable, especially the Rich Man and Lazarus passage which is so clearly full of parabolic symbolism.

In 2 Corinthians 12, Apostle Paul speaks of a man he knew that was 'caught up' to Paradise, to the third heaven (3rd heaven world age, not 3rd level like in some Buddhist belief). Paul no doubt was speaking of himself, because at one time he was stoned and left for dead. Paul said he did not know whether that happened 'in the body', or 'out of the body', but that God knew. How that happened is that Paul's spirit was caught up to Paradise in the heavenly realm, and it was there that he heard words not lawful to utter.

That the "man" was Paul, we agree.

Now, if the great apostle Paul, a man who was so knowledgeable in the truth, full of the Holy Ghost beyond measure, blessed with such an abundance of revelation and experiences that he had to receive a thorn in the flesh to keep him humble,...IF HE DIDN'T KNOW IF IT WAS IN THE BODY OR OUT OF THE BODY, WHO ARE YOU OR I TO SAY IT WAS AN "OUT OF THE BODY SPIRIT" EXPERIENCE?

So really, we have no excuse in not understanding these things, and how it was possible for the malefactor's spirit to go to Paradise with Jesus after they had died upon the cross.

Of course the thief's spirit went to heaven when he died, as ALL spirits return to God when the creature dies, be it a saint, sinner, or beast. Good gravy, man, this is right there in Scripture! God sends forth His spirit and creatures come to life, He gathers it up back to Himself and they drop DEAD.

The thief - a soul which came into existence at the union of God's Breath of Life and his Body - did not go to heaven when he died. His spirit aka breath of life returned to God, his body to the earth, and thus the thief ceased to exist.